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Question To Seal our Happiness!

6 years 10 months ago #1 by Yolandria
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  • Another First Gen tale! Hope you enjoy and post your thoughts in the comments below!

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #2 by Malady
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  • Awww! Everyone's meeting everyone! So sweet!

    If this is the Parent's Day Story for Everyone, that'd be interesting, but cool if it's just for... Whatever Nalleys + Tansy + Wyatt are called.

    That robot guy... His scene is just right in the middle and so very ominous!
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 10 months ago #3 by Yolandria
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  • Yeah...that's one very crowded table. 4 sets of parents...Yikes!

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    6 years 10 months ago #4 by Malady
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  • Using real names instead of codenames is soo confusing! Lol! So glad I decided to look up Robot Guy's Name!

    Harvey Calloway !
    6 years 10 months ago #5 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: That robot guy... His scene is just right in the middle and so very ominous!


    What could possibly go wrong?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 10 months ago #6 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    To Seal Our Happiness Part 1 comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 10 months ago #7 by Anne
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  • Let's see, the shaman killer, Kittylikabutt, is hiding in a flaw in the Whateley wards either created by TWFKAH or her master. So I don't expect him among the parents. I could be wrong, but hey that is where I remember it went to ground so to speak.
    It would be sort of interesting to see Imp interact with Elaine and Stephan's parents. Wonder if we will see more of Melissa and her dad in these?
    Poor MD, too bad that he doesn't have a girl glom onto him....
    6 years 10 months ago #8 by Mister D
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  • Anne wrote: Let's see, the shaman killer, Kittylikabutt, is hiding in a flaw in the Whateley wards either created by TWFKAH or her master. So I don't expect him among the parents. I could be wrong, but hey that is where I remember it went to ground so to speak.
    It would be sort of interesting to see Imp interact with Elaine and Stephan's parents. Wonder if we will see more of Melissa and her dad in these?
    Poor MD, too bad that he doesn't have a girl glom onto him....


    It's hiding in the portable hole(?) in the back of Mrs Carson's office.

    The extra-dimensional space fits with the description of the escape route that Tiglatilik used to get away, and since it wasn't mentioned before, at the same time that the flaw that allowed him to escape was just mentioned, it gives a nice example of Chekhov's BFG.


    Measure Twice
    6 years 10 months ago #9 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Mister D wrote:
    It's hiding in the portable hole(?) in the back of Mrs Carson's office.


    Think of it as a 'pocket' dimension, and this isn't the first of it's kind we've seen. The space where The Secret lurked and imprisoned the soul of Shelly Carson was a similar, but less stable creation. And there are others that would have given Euclid nightmares...

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 10 months ago #10 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Dreamer wrote: Bwahahaha, a Flashbang holster built in a bra, that is one way to get an attacker off-guard.


    The Truth is always stranger than fiction...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 10 months ago #11 by lighttech
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Bwahahaha, a Flashbang holster built in a bra, that is one way to get an attacker off-guard.


    The Truth is always stranger than fiction...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    As an ex firearms instuctor

    that darn thing is the most dangerous holster I have ever seen...really? aiming a gun at your heart on the drawing motion?
    what could go wrong?

    Part of the WA Drow clan/ collective
    Author of Vantier and Shadowsblade on Bigcloset
    6 years 10 months ago #12 by Valentine
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  • lighttech wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Bwahahaha, a Flashbang holster built in a bra, that is one way to get an attacker off-guard.


    The Truth is always stranger than fiction...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    As an ex firearms instuctor

    that darn thing is the most dangerous holster I have ever seen...really? aiming a gun at your heart on the drawing motion?
    what could go wrong?


    I had to take a closer look. I initially thought it was barrel up. So I figured carrying a gun around with it pointed at your chin might top that.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 10 months ago #13 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Valentine wrote:

    lighttech wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Bwahahaha, a Flashbang holster built in a bra, that is one way to get an attacker off-guard.


    The Truth is always stranger than fiction...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    As an ex firearms instuctor

    that darn thing is the most dangerous holster I have ever seen...really? aiming a gun at your heart on the drawing motion?
    what could go wrong?


    I had to take a closer look. I initially thought it was barrel up. So I figured carrying a gun around with it pointed at your chin might top that.


    As near as I can tell, the pistol actually rides against the skin pointed perpendicular to the body, just on the chest. So, in the photo, the muzzle is actually pointing off to the model's left, which might be an issue for 'full figure' gals, but no less safe than most other on body carry positions. It's biggest draw back is holstering.

    The proper technique is detach the holster from the bra, re-holster the pistol off the body, then reattach to the bra. That of course takes two hands and a fair amount of dexterity, which isn't a good thing in a holster. But, lots of ladies face challenges of wardrobe that the flashbang addresses where it would be a Flashbang or don't carry. Not having your tool when you need it is worse, in my book. YMMV.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 10 months ago #14 by Anne
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  • Mister D wrote:

    Anne wrote: Let's see, the shaman killer, Kittylikabutt, is hiding in a flaw in the Whateley wards either created by TWFKAH or her master. So I don't expect him among the parents. I could be wrong, but hey that is where I remember it went to ground so to speak.
    It would be sort of interesting to see Imp interact with Elaine and Stephan's parents. Wonder if we will see more of Melissa and her dad in these?
    Poor MD, too bad that he doesn't have a girl glom onto him....


    It's hiding in the portable hole(?) in the back of Mrs Carson's office.

    The extra-dimensional space fits with the description of the escape route that Tiglatilik used to get away, and since it wasn't mentioned before, at the same time that the flaw that allowed him to escape was just mentioned, it gives a nice example of Chekhov's BFG.

    I don't think that TWFKAH or her master could hide chaos tainted tools in a space that Mrs Carson uses very often. Tiglatilk used a space that was used to hide the tools of a mage who uses GOO tainted magic. So, unless that space is a pimple on Mrs Carson's space that is isolated from it some how I don't think the description fits. I could of course be wrong, after all maybe she hasn't considered looking for such things in the space....
    6 years 10 months ago #15 by Anne
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Valentine wrote:

    lighttech wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Bwahahaha, a Flashbang holster built in a bra, that is one way to get an attacker off-guard.


    The Truth is always stranger than fiction...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    As an ex firearms instuctor

    that darn thing is the most dangerous holster I have ever seen...really? aiming a gun at your heart on the drawing motion?
    what could go wrong?


    I had to take a closer look. I initially thought it was barrel up. So I figured carrying a gun around with it pointed at your chin might top that.


    As near as I can tell, the pistol actually rides against the skin pointed perpendicular to the body, just on the chest. So, in the photo, the muzzle is actually pointing off to the model's left, which might be an issue for 'full figure' gals, but no less safe than most other on body carry positions. It's biggest draw back is holstering.

    The proper technique is detach the holster from the bra, re-holster the pistol off the body, then reattach to the bra. That of course takes two hands and a fair amount of dexterity, which isn't a good thing in a holster. But, lots of ladies face challenges of wardrobe that the flashbang addresses where it would be a Flashbang or don't carry. Not having your tool when you need it is worse, in my book. YMMV.

    New quote: 'Tis better to lose a tit than be carried by six. Not that you'd really lose a tit unless you were carrying something ridiculous or you have an AAA cup, then the holster there wouldn't work anyway. There are distinct reasons that boobs are called funbags in certain circles.
    6 years 10 months ago #16 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Anne wrote: I don't think that TWFKAH or her master could hide chaos tainted tools in a space that Mrs Carson uses very often. Tiglatilk used a space that was used to hide the tools of a mage who uses GOO tainted magic. So, unless that space is a pimple on Mrs Carson's space that is isolated from it some how I don't think the description fits. I could of course be wrong, after all maybe she hasn't considered looking for such things in the space....


    You're correct. And the Hard to Spell Demon was OUTSIDE the warding wall, and while space gets a little fuzzy with these things, the pocket he found was outside the wall and Mrs Carson's Arsenal is most definitely inside it.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 10 months ago #17 by mhalpern
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  • You know now that we are in parents day proper, there's a lot of potentials maybe even a POV of Alyss's "cousin" considering the massive "coincidence" that she manifested then....

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 10 months ago #18 by elrodw
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  • Anne wrote: Let's see, the shaman killer, Kittylikabutt ...


    :roflmao: Bwah hah hah hah hah!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 10 months ago #19 by null0trooper
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Mister D wrote:
    It's hiding in the portable hole(?) in the back of Mrs Carson's office.


    Think of it as a 'pocket' dimension, and this isn't the first of it's kind we've seen. The space where The Secret lurked and imprisoned the soul of Shelly Carson was a similar, but less stable creation. And there are others that would have given Euclid nightmares...


    This is a school at which a wardrobe incorporating nine extradimensional spaces and a stabilized portal can be considered a viable freshman project for a WIZ-2 mutant.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 10 months ago #20 by mhalpern
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Mister D wrote:
    It's hiding in the portable hole(?) in the back of Mrs Carson's office.


    Think of it as a 'pocket' dimension, and this isn't the first of it's kind we've seen. The space where The Secret lurked and imprisoned the soul of Shelly Carson was a similar, but less stable creation. And there are others that would have given Euclid nightmares...


    This is a school at which a wardrobe incorporating nine extradimensional spaces and a stabilized portal can be considered a viable freshman project for a WIZ-2 mutant.

    and where divisors can make tardis gear to sell..

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    6 years 10 months ago #21 by Anne
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  • elrodw wrote:

    Anne wrote: Let's see, the shaman killer, Kittylikabutt ...


    :roflmao: Bwah hah hah hah hah!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

    Glad I could add light to your day.
    6 years 10 months ago #22 by Ahimsa
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  • “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    6 years 10 months ago #23 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Ahimsa wrote:

    “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?


    Are YOU going to tell the 3,000 year old sorceress she's being presumptuous? :blink: :whistle:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #24 by Ahimsa
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote:

    “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?


    Are YOU going to tell the 3,000 year old sorceress she's being presumptuous? :blink: :whistle:


    Living for 3000 years, surely she would understand the value of someone having the courage to speak the truth as they see it?

    Or, it could be a subtle test (or is that too deus ex machina?).

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Ahimsa. Reason: Punctuation.
    6 years 10 months ago #25 by null0trooper
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  • Ahimsa wrote:

    “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?


    I was of the impression that she considered devising as a practice that plays by Da Rulez, albeit not necessarily by the rules the deviser thinks they're playing with (Intent, Definition, Similarity, Precedent, along with a heavy dash of both Essential Flaw and "It's Five O'Clock Somewhere")

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 10 months ago #26 by Katssun
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  • Oh, but devising is just the practical application of psionics into a material object for the end user, who simply wasn't aware of their own mental abilities...and without being regularly re-attuned by its creator, it will stop working for others.

    [Throws a white glove to the ground with a stern expression.]

    Name your second!
    6 years 10 months ago #27 by mhalpern
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  • Katssun wrote: Oh, but devising is just the practical application of psionics into a material object for the end user, who simply wasn't aware of their own mental abilities...and without being regularly re-attuned by its creator, it will stop working for others.

    [Throws a white glove to the ground with a stern expression.]

    Name your second!

    Doesn't explain how some devises are pretty stable

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    6 years 10 months ago #28 by Ahimsa
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote:

    “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?


    I was of the impression that she considered devising as a practice that plays by Da Rulez, albeit not necessarily by the rules the deviser thinks they're playing with (Intent, Definition, Similarity, Precedent, along with a heavy dash of both Essential Flaw and "It's Five O'Clock Somewhere")


    If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    6 years 10 months ago #29 by mhalpern
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  • Ahimsa wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote:

    “Which,” Circe had remarked at the time, “is exactly what magic is: understanding the rules of the universe so that you can change it.”


    If magic is "understanding the rules of the universe", then is devising "not playing by those rules"? If so, then isn't Circe's pronouncement extremely presumptuous?


    I was of the impression that she considered devising as a practice that plays by Da Rulez, albeit not necessarily by the rules the deviser thinks they're playing with (Intent, Definition, Similarity, Precedent, along with a heavy dash of both Essential Flaw and "It's Five O'Clock Somewhere")


    If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    It's hard to determine if it actually is magic and with Devisor pride and associated mental conditions, you don't want to participate in that argument

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 10 months ago #30 by null0trooper
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  • Katssun wrote: Oh, but devising is just the practical application of psionics into a material object for the end user, who simply wasn't aware of their own mental abilities...and without being regularly re-attuned by its creator, it will stop working for others.


    If it were a practical application, then third-party psi users should be able to independently replicate the process to obtain similar tangible results. So far, the reproducibility has been shown to be somehow even worse than accepted practice in the social sciences.

    If the process can be replicated by researchers without resorting to psionics, we generally call that engineering.

    If the process can be replicated through the use of magic, it's an enchantment.

    Katssun wrote: [Throws a white glove to the ground with a stern expression.]

    Name your second!


    Pfft. Let the best peer-reviewed research win.

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    6 years 10 months ago #31 by Katssun
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote: If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    It's hard to determine if it actually is magic and with Devisor pride and associated mental conditions, you don't want to participate in that argument

    You're only dismissive of the concept because you seem to think that the Magic Department has bigger classrooms and a secret library, don't you!?
    6 years 10 months ago #32 by mhalpern
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  • Katssun wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote: If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    It's hard to determine if it actually is magic and with Devisor pride and associated mental conditions, you don't want to participate in that argument

    You're only dismissive of the concept because you seem to think that the Magic Department has bigger classrooms and a secret library, don't you!?

    No, just experiencing deathrays isn't high on my priority list

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    6 years 10 months ago #33 by Ahimsa
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote: If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    It's hard to determine if it actually is magic and with Devisor pride and associated mental conditions, you don't want to participate in that argument

    That sounds like classification through fear - not very scientific :)

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    6 years 10 months ago #34 by null0trooper
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    Ahimsa wrote: If that were true, wouldn't Dev be a sub-class of Wiz?

    It's hard to determine if it actually is magic and with Devisor pride and associated mental conditions, you don't want to participate in that argument


    The in-universe classification system is been said to focus on the "what" over the "how" of powers, in which case it's been seen as more useful to separate DEV as its own thing. It's the guy with the improbable lightning generator, not the girl calling lightning down from the sky upon your hear, nor the wierd kid who smells like ozone all the time.

    The reality-warping aspects of devising tends to favor "magic" (Possibly with cross-plane clairvoyance taking the place of the clairvoyant foresight demonstrated by powerful gadgeteers) although magical systems rely on reproducibility as much as the physical sciences. There's a point at which "accidental" use doesn't make any sense because magic and psi can both be detected when in use, and an accidental user or newbie almost certainly would not know how to mask either one.

    The reality-breaking aspects of some devises and the fulminating insanity that haunts their creators might hint at the lowest expression of mythos sorcery - which also doesn't set conventional detectors off. How's that for a comforting thought?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 10 months ago #35 by Ahimsa
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  • null0trooper wrote: The in-universe classification system is been said to focus on the "what" over the "how" of powers, in which case it's been seen as more useful to separate DEV as its own thing. It's the guy with the improbable lightning generator, not the girl calling lightning down from the sky upon your hear, nor the wierd kid who smells like ozone all the time.


    If I'm getting you correctly, then what about the effort that people go to during powers testing to get the classification exactly right? What sense does it make to spend energy classifying into a weak classification system? One might as well do a thumbsuck, so to speak.

    null0trooper wrote: The reality-warping aspects of devising tends to favor "magic" (Possibly with cross-plane clairvoyance taking the place of the clairvoyant foresight demonstrated by powerful gadgeteers) although magical systems rely on reproducibility as much as the physical sciences. There's a point at which "accidental" use doesn't make any sense because magic and psi can both be detected when in use, and an accidental user or newbie almost certainly would not know how to mask either one.

    The reality-breaking aspects of some devises and the fulminating insanity that haunts their creators might hint at the lowest expression of mythos sorcery - which also doesn't set conventional detectors off. How's that for a comforting thought?


    All of this tends to point to the idea that magic is just a Weltanschauung, one of many.

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #36 by Malady
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  • BTW, we've got Kristin, talking about DEV:

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/revi...icer-relevants#49186

    So Gadgeteers? Crossover between Clairvoyance/Paragon (with an affinity for tech) and Precog. Devisors? Similar crossover between Clairvoyance/Paragon and Warping.... and its the Warping that syncs the object to the alternate dimension and allows it to work here and why if it isn't used by the Devisor that it can fail (desync and tries to work in WU laws).


    Unless that's just her talking, and not canon... And even if it ''is'' canon, no one knows it?

    ----

    The title of the story makes me think Magic, 'cause "Seal" applied to some abstract concept... ... But, if it's PSI, what could it mean??
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 10 months ago #37 by Ahimsa
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  • Malady wrote: BTW, we've got Kristin, talking about DEV:

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/revi...icer-relevants#49186

    So Gadgeteers? Crossover between Clairvoyance/Paragon (with an affinity for tech) and Precog. Devisors? Similar crossover between Clairvoyance/Paragon and Warping.... and its the Warping that syncs the object to the alternate dimension and allows it to work here and why if it isn't used by the Devisor that it can fail (desync and tries to work in WU laws).


    Unless that's just her talking, and not canon... And even if it ''is'' canon, no one knows it?


    Interesting, though it does raise the possibility of concepts creating themselves, as well as that "magic" can be different things in different dimensions.

    sri-bhagavan uvaca | kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho | lokan samahartum iha pravrttah | - "Lord Krishna said: I am terrible Time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world." - Bhagavad Gita 11:32
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #38 by Yolandria
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  • I think you guys derailed the train! Might want to call a tow truck and get it back on it's tracks.

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Yolandria. Reason: Spelling is hard!
    6 years 10 months ago #39 by Anne
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  • Yolandria wrote: I think you guys derailed the train! Might want to call a tow truck and get it back on it's tracks.

    You can say that again! What story are we discussing anyway, and who were the characters involved?
    6 years 10 months ago #40 by null0trooper
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  • Anne wrote:

    Yolandria wrote: I think you guys derailed the train! Might want to call a tow truck and get it back on it's tracks.

    You can say that again! What story are we discussing anyway, and who were the characters involved?

    I think there might have been some horny adolescents involved at some point.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 10 months ago #41 by Anne
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  • The discussion had gotten so far out into the weeds that I actually went back and read the story over to see if I could find a way to get us headed back to discussing the relationships at hand, that is Stephan and Marty, as well as Elaine, Tansy and Cody. And possible nuclear explosions which could occur when certain other parties meet.
    6 years 10 months ago #42 by Malady
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  • The three teachers had prepared a Sorcerers' Contract that he had had to read and sign in his own blood and to swear an oath upon it that, come what may, he would only ever use the knowledge and power he was about to be granted for the betterment of all around him, harming only those who intended him or others harm and to invite the wrath of those who kept the Contract of Solomon should he use what he would learn for evil intent.


    So, that oath applies to all mages that had their wells Lit at Whateley... And only applies to knowledge that "was about to be granted"? ... So, if he, or any others who were lit, underwent some ... Independent Study... That knowledge wouldn't be bound by the oath?

    Hmm...

    So, mages known to be under that oath:

    Kodiak and the Three Little Witches...

    Uhh... That might be it? A mage wanting less restrictions would plan to light their wells by themselves or something.
    6 years 10 months ago #43 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Malady wrote: So, mages known to be under that oath:

    Kodiak and the Three Little Witches...


    Known to be? Where did you see the Three Little Witches in that passage you quoted?

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #44 by Malady
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Malady wrote: So, mages known to be under that oath:

    Kodiak and the Three Little Witches...


    Known to be? Where did you see the Three Little Witches in that passage you quoted?


    Whoops, yes, presumed. Kirstin said they got Lit at the end of their Spring Magic Intro.

    I presumed Grimes wouldn't light their wells without making sure they took the oath...
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 10 months ago #45 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: So, that oath applies to all mages that had their wells Lit at Whateley... And only applies to knowledge that "was about to be granted"? ... So, if he, or any others who were lit, underwent some ... Independent Study... That knowledge wouldn't be bound by the oath?


    Going by earlier TLW stories, I got the impression that the department normally insists that students gather together the essence to light their own wells their own possibly-damned selves (if it didn't happen before arriving at school).

    The three granted Wyatt a measure of power and some parties just might hold them (and any associated with them) responsible for whatever nasty drek he pulls off or pokes at.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 10 months ago #46 by jmhyp
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  • I haven't gotten past the prologue yet but I had to comment. Elaine actually writes "Ah" instead of "I"? That's commitment to an accent.

    Reading on...
    6 years 10 months ago #47 by Yolandria
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  • Actually the 3 LW had their wells lit in one of the OC stories. But there was no mention of an Oath attached to it. All we know is Cait giving them Adamant wands etc. Which caused them to set her on fire.

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    6 years 10 months ago #48 by Kettlekorn
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  • jmhyp wrote: I haven't gotten past the prologue yet but I had to comment. Elaine actually writes "Ah" instead of "I"? That's commitment to an accent.

    I interpreted it as the disembodied voice Gene was hearing in his mind as he read the letter, not the text of the letter itself.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 10 months ago #49 by Anne
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  • Kettlekorn wrote:

    jmhyp wrote: I haven't gotten past the prologue yet but I had to comment. Elaine actually writes "Ah" instead of "I"? That's commitment to an accent.

    I interpreted it as the disembodied voice Gene was hearing in his mind as he read the letter, not the text of the letter itself.

    I'm sure that is exactly what is happening. He's imagining Lanie speaking to him rather than the text before him.
    6 years 10 months ago #50 by Malady
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  • Anne wrote:

    Kettlekorn wrote:

    jmhyp wrote: I haven't gotten past the prologue yet but I had to comment. Elaine actually writes "Ah" instead of "I"? That's commitment to an accent.

    I interpreted it as the disembodied voice Gene was hearing in his mind as he read the letter, not the text of the letter itself.

    I'm sure that is exactly what is happening. He's imagining Lanie speaking to him rather than the text before him.


    That'd make a lot of sense, given that this precedes the letter:

    It was as if his daughter was right beside him, speaking to him with her unique accent and manner of speech.

    6 years 10 months ago #51 by Valentine
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  • Yolandria wrote: Actually the 3 LW had their wells lit in one of the OC stories. But there was no mention of an Oath attached to it. All we know is Cait giving them Adamant wands etc. Which caused them to set her on fire.


    No it was mentioned that they had lit their wells, and that Cait gave them the wands and focus crystals.

    "Did I mention I saved three sets for the Three Little Witches?" Caitlin grinned from ear to ear, waiting for the joy of that particular explosion.

    Grimes looked over and noted Nephandus ducking his head down, pretending to be more interested in his food. "I see." She glowered at Caitlin. "I had just gotten the three to light their wells after great difficulty and..."
    "I'll talk to them about how to use them without lighting the teachers on fire."

    Which was odd considering it was a new moon, but with that they had preformed an 'investiture' which had lit his well.

    Those are from Siblings & Savages and The Gates of the Garden and To Seal Our Happiness So it may be fall when they get their wells lit. But the difference seems to be that TLW lit their own wells, and Cody's was lit for him by the teachers.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 10 months ago #52 by Mister D
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Anne wrote: I don't think that TWFKAH or her master could hide chaos tainted tools in a space that Mrs Carson uses very often. Tiglatilk used a space that was used to hide the tools of a mage who uses GOO tainted magic. So, unless that space is a pimple on Mrs Carson's space that is isolated from it some how I don't think the description fits. I could of course be wrong, after all maybe she hasn't considered looking for such things in the space....


    You're correct. And the Hard to Spell Demon was OUTSIDE the warding wall, and while space gets a little fuzzy with these things, the pocket he found was outside the wall and Mrs Carson's Arsenal is most definitely inside it.


    And who do we know that is using GOO magic around WA? :D

    Chekov's BFD.


    Measure Twice
    6 years 10 months ago #53 by Yolandria
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  • I wonder if Kigi found Sara's little part of the world. "Let's play patty cake" GOO edition!

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    6 years 10 months ago #54 by Anne
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  • Mister D wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Anne wrote: I don't think that TWFKAH or her master could hide chaos tainted tools in a space that Mrs Carson uses very often. Tiglatilk used a space that was used to hide the tools of a mage who uses GOO tainted magic. So, unless that space is a pimple on Mrs Carson's space that is isolated from it some how I don't think the description fits. I could of course be wrong, after all maybe she hasn't considered looking for such things in the space....


    You're correct. And the Hard to Spell Demon was OUTSIDE the warding wall, and while space gets a little fuzzy with these things, the pocket he found was outside the wall and Mrs Carson's Arsenal is most definitely inside it.


    And who do we know that is using GOO magic around WA? :D

    Chekov's BFD.

    Hekate's master. Who has not been identified by the staff or teachers or any of the main characters so far. In fact we're still debating who exactly Hekate has hijacked so that she can hide among the incoming freshthings.
    6 years 10 months ago #55 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Anne wrote:

    Kettlekorn wrote:

    jmhyp wrote: I haven't gotten past the prologue yet but I had to comment. Elaine actually writes "Ah" instead of "I"? That's commitment to an accent.

    I interpreted it as the disembodied voice Gene was hearing in his mind as he read the letter, not the text of the letter itself.

    I'm sure that is exactly what is happening. He's imagining Lanie speaking to him rather than the text before him.


    Exactly so. If this were film, you'd have a series of medium closeups of Gene reading the letter, reacting to it, and fighting his emotions all while the actress who played Lanie would be reading the letter voiced over. That was the effect I was going for.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #56 by Yolandria
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  • And part 2 is now up for your Gen 1 viewing pleasure!

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    6 years 9 months ago #57 by Malady
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  • So many things! [ Click to expand ]
    6 years 9 months ago #58 by Anne
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  • Oh man this one is so funny that I hurt myself laughing at it. Especially the last scene with Razor an Adam!
    6 years 9 months ago #59 by Malady
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  • Cathy Pressman is another Westchester Montessori kid. Is she another mutant?

    If so, who?

    ----

    Authors: So, did the Diablikus go to both Westchester Montessori and Benjamin Franklin Academy ?

    If this is off topic, I'll bump the previous thread about the schools.
    6 years 9 months ago #60 by Kettlekorn
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  • To Seal Our Happiness (Part 2) wrote: “My shirt is green!”

    Hell yeah! Green FTW.

    To Seal Our Happiness (Part 2) wrote: “Jazz is life,”

    Damn right!

    To Seal Our Happiness (Part 2) wrote: you don't want any part of this.

    So noted.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #61 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    To Seal Our Happiness Part 2 comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 9 months ago #62 by Kettlekorn
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  • Dreamer wrote: And getting his fiance to leave the room, huh, would have thought they would be married already.

    Why? She's the only one who'd benefit from a marriage, and he knows it. The sensible thing would be to drag it out as long as possible, insist on a prenup, and then act like maybe he'll reconsider with more time. Eventually she'd get fed up and leave, and he'd find some other gold digger to play with.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #63 by Katssun
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  • Oh my god! Tansy pretending to be Ember's temporary mom...I could not stop the tears that came on their own.
    6 years 9 months ago #64 by null0trooper
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  • Dreamer wrote: Adam 6 years old and thinking Whateley Academy is the coolest place ever, was there ever any doubt he would manifest and come here as a student eventually. Checking everything out like it is the greatest place on Earth and the look on his face and energy could make even the most down on themselves individual with GSD feel better about themselves I bet. Seeing Jack and Adam playing together is cute every time.


    IIRC, Adam visited Whateley in 2006 as well.

    Of course, for a six-year-old kid, waiting until next year? That's like forEVER!

    Dreamer wrote:

    Part of the reason we went to Venice was a top ranked neuroscience practice there, and the EU has a trial for a new treatment that is based on Solon-4...”

    Okay, I know he doesn't want to lose her, but if they haven't removed the side-effects she would change, not be herself anymore. At least Tansy convinces him to let her friends check it out, always good to get a professional opinion.


    I think that was Marissa

    “At least give me the names of this trial and the practice, dad,” she admitted urgently. “I've made some excellent friends here. Let me find out for sure it's legitimate...”


    Dreamer wrote:

    Fortunately the particle was not ionizing, so skin stopped it, which was why everyone appeared naked to John.

    *eyes bug out* Okay, they should have done more tests on him sooner, this changes what we know about his power, thought it was psychic in nature before.


    IIRC, Champions debuted with a similar "n-ray vision".

    In the WU, exotic/unique sensory powers have frequently turned out to be based on esper traits. You can't easily detect a particle that you don't have a theory for or anomalous results to explain, so it's reasonable for the boffins to chalk it up to psi. Wrong in retrospect, but reasonable.


    Dreamer wrote: Yay! Friends again and Jadis helping out Tansy, I was hoping this would happen soon. Hehehe, a sleepover to catch up on things, now that is perfect. Whoa, who is Tansy calling and how can they help?


    Jadis Diabolik is placing the call. Be very afraid.

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    6 years 9 months ago #65 by Dreamer
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Adam 6 years old and thinking Whateley Academy is the coolest place ever, was there ever any doubt he would manifest and come here as a student eventually. Checking everything out like it is the greatest place on Earth and the look on his face and energy could make even the most down on themselves individual with GSD feel better about themselves I bet. Seeing Jack and Adam playing together is cute every time.


    IIRC, Adam visited Whateley in 2006 as well.

    Of course, for a six-year-old kid, waiting until next year? That's like forEVER!

    Dreamer wrote:

    Part of the reason we went to Venice was a top ranked neuroscience practice there, and the EU has a trial for a new treatment that is based on Solon-4...”

    Okay, I know he doesn't want to lose her, but if they haven't removed the side-effects she would change, not be herself anymore. At least Tansy convinces him to let her friends check it out, always good to get a professional opinion.


    I think that was Marissa

    “At least give me the names of this trial and the practice, dad,” she admitted urgently. “I've made some excellent friends here. Let me find out for sure it's legitimate...”


    Dreamer wrote:

    Fortunately the particle was not ionizing, so skin stopped it, which was why everyone appeared naked to John.

    *eyes bug out* Okay, they should have done more tests on him sooner, this changes what we know about his power, thought it was psychic in nature before.


    IIRC, Champions debuted with a similar "n-ray vision".

    In the WU, exotic/unique sensory powers have frequently turned out to be based on esper traits. You can't easily detect a particle that you don't have a theory for or anomalous results to explain, so it's reasonable for the boffins to chalk it up to psi. Wrong in retrospect, but reasonable.


    Dreamer wrote: Yay! Friends again and Jadis helping out Tansy, I was hoping this would happen soon. Hehehe, a sleepover to catch up on things, now that is perfect. Whoa, who is Tansy calling and how can they help?


    Jadis Diabolik is placing the call. Be very afraid.

    That will teach me to read a story with a headache, misread the part about Marissa asking her dad to let her friends check things out and that it was Jadis making the phone call, not Tansy. Thanks.

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 9 months ago #66 by null0trooper
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  • Dreamer wrote: That will teach me to read a story with a headache, misread the part about Marissa asking her dad to let her friends check things out and that it was Jadis making the phone call, not Tansy. Thanks.


    You're welcome! It may be coincidence, but I had made a couple of notes to myself regarding Adam's and Marissa's actions. I'd also agree with you and Katssun that Tansy's way of helping out Ember was classy.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 9 months ago #67 by Kettlekorn
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  • Oh yeah, how could I forget Turner's Radiation? That the units are (hopefully) going to be scandals was my favorite part of the whole update. I didn't just laugh out loud. I clapped. :lol:

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #68 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: Oh yeah, how could I forget Turner's Radiation? That the units are (hopefully) going to be scandals was my favorite part of the whole update. I didn't just laugh out loud. I clapped. :lol:


    Thank you! I'll be here all week! Don't forget to tip your servers and try the veal!

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #69 by E. E. Nalley
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  • DocSavage — 2018-06-19 16:50
    Where have all the Kimbas gone?
    Long time passing
    Where have all the Kimbas gone?
    Long time ago
    Where have all the Kimbas gone?
    Their stories ended tales not done
    When will we ever learn?
    When will we ever learn?


    In case anyone was wondering, this is how NOT to give a comment on a story. This is how authors become pissed off and say to hell with it. This isn't cute or funny it's insulting. Never mind that it asks a question that has been asked and answered hundreds of times on the forums, to post it in the comments of a story with nothing to do with the question SPITS on the weeks I spent writing that story.

    I hope you have the decency to be embarrassed 'Doc Savage'! Your complete lack of social graces, tact and just common courtesy has REALLY insulted me and possibly cost all of these people in the forum time they will likely have to wait longer for stories because YOU are an ass hole. Don't apologize to me, if you have the guts to show your face, apologize to them!

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #70 by Katssun
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  • This would be I don't read the comment section included after the story and neither should you. They should post on the forums!

    Let's again reiterate why we love the journey of Tansy from shrieking harpy to surrogate mother figure. There's still tragedy, there is still recompense, there's still guilt and shame and forgiveness. It was slow, it was gradual, it was methodical. She went from being forced into caring after TLW, to wanting to protect them, to reconnecting with her mother, with her grandparents, to wanting to care for a child, even if it wasn't strictly her own, to acting as a surrogate for a distraught girl, to...well, read Gen 2.

    She's gone from the personification of hatred to what she was always truly wanting to be.
    6 years 9 months ago #71 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Thank you, Katssun. Thank you very much.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #72 by null0trooper
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  • It's also important that Tansy has been shown doing the hard lifting herself, of her own will, and it still required significant help from professionals.

    DocSavage — 2018-06-19 16:50
    Where have all the Kimbas gone?


    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    It's 2018 IRL. Normal people who are missing their favorite characters write fan fiction or make fan art.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 9 months ago #73 by Anne
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  • One thing that sort of stuck out to me after I'd been thinking about the story for a while was the fact that at some point we seemed to have lost track of Ember. I know how hard you worked at this E.E. So please take this in the spirit it is meant. Maybe I just wasn't reading close enough, and maybe just maybe too many tales were attempted at once. I lose characters occasionally (or more than occasionally) and also have characters for whom I seem unable to write complete stories. So, again, many more thanks and upvotes than I can personally give for how well you do do what you do as far as telling these stories.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #74 by Malady
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  • ^ - What do you mean about losing track of Ember? ... We've seen her with Team Awesome!, in quite a few parts?

    Although, yes, this seems to be the largest bit of exposition on her history we've seen?
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 9 months ago #75 by Katssun
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  • Her Parents Day issues aside, isn't Ember a member of Team Awesome?

    It's both endearing and horrifying. We can only hope that Roulette and Caitlin can keep them somewhat in check. And let's face it, Amy is far more motherly than Caitlin.
    6 years 9 months ago #76 by Anne
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  • Malady wrote: ^ - What do you mean about losing track of Ember? ... We've seen her with Team Awesome!, in quite a few parts?

    Although, yes, this seems to be the largest bit of exposition on her history we've seen?

    I meant specifically in this story arc. That is that when we see her with Tansy for a bit then Tansy gets all involved with what do I do about my grandmother etc, at that point it is unclear where Ember went & who she is with. Marissa seems to be likely but isn't stated specifically. Indeed it seems like Ember sort of gets out of the frame somewhat before that point.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #77 by Malady
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  • Anne wrote:

    Malady wrote: ^ - What do you mean about losing track of Ember? ... We've seen her with Team Awesome!, in quite a few parts?

    Although, yes, this seems to be the largest bit of exposition on her history we've seen?

    I meant specifically in this story arc. That is that when we see her with Tansy for a bit then Tansy gets all involved with what do I do about my grandmother etc, at that point it is unclear where Ember went & who she is with. Marissa seems to be likely but isn't stated specifically. Indeed it seems like Ember sort of gets out of the frame somewhat before that point.


    We ''do'' know who she's with after Marissa is called away:

    “They need you?” her father asked. “I'm sure we'll be fine with our new granddaughter to tell us all about this wonderful museum!” Angelina giggled as Marissa turned back to her daughter.



    Presumably, Angelina's with the rest of the Dawson family, inside the Crystal Hall when Razorback, Imp, and etc, arrive outside.

    ----

    Aunt June was first seen in Imp 6: Part 2... But there's no mention of Razorback, in regards to Parents' Day, except in Art Class.

    If we get Team Awesome POV of Parents' Day, then we might see Ember again there, if that happens before Seal Part 3.

    ----

    Wonder how other Espers / Teeps / Whatevers, react to Mrs. Dawson's Alzheimer Brain? Chibi Evil might have a bad reaction? But not if she has her shields up??
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 9 months ago #78 by Anne
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  • See Malady, that is why I said that perhaps I hadn't read the story closely enough. Then we can presume, that when Tansy gets all tied in a knot over discovering her grandmother's Alzheimer's disease that her grandfather is still making sure that Ember has someone to act as surrogate family but Tansy is too upset to mention just what Ember is up to.
    6 years 9 months ago #79 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: Wonder how other Espers / Teeps / Whatevers, react to Mrs. Dawson's Alzheimer Brain? Chibi Evil might have a bad reaction? But not if she has her shields up??


    Wouldn't it be a serious breach of the school's ethics code to pry into her thoughts to find that out?

    I imagine that for many folks Parents Day is Work On Shielding Day.

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    6 years 9 months ago #80 by Anne
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Wonder how other Espers / Teeps / Whatevers, react to Mrs. Dawson's Alzheimer Brain? Chibi Evil might have a bad reaction? But not if she has her shields up??


    Wouldn't it be a serious breach of the school's ethics code to pry into her thoughts to find that out?

    I imagine that for many folks Parents Day is Work On Shielding Day.

    I think that is an understatement of the facts! It is more like, how long until my shields crash day!
    6 years 9 months ago #81 by mhalpern
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  • Sorry I haven't said anything, time and now its basically all been said

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 9 months ago #82 by Katssun
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  • Has it? I don't think we've really discussed Maggie's continued psychosis. Only Dreamer brought it up so far. She was supposed to be getting some treatment after her blow-up and making the blood oath.

    Does it relate to Tansy's and Lanie's Halloween? (Hinted at in Gen 2).

    Does Kayda stop or resolve it? She already knows how to do it herself, and the consequences of doing so, and she's an expert at putting them back...and who knows what else?!

    Did Tennyo give Maggie the book, not realizing that Maggie was doing some pretty evil stuff with the library loan system?

    Maggie indicated she knew how to not only eject Grizzly, but kill her off permanently. We sort of know the outcome of this...or do we?

    :ohmy:
    6 years 9 months ago #83 by E. E. Nalley
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  • No one wants to defend Lord Paramount's take on Ethan Frome? :whistle:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #84 by Malady
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  • I wonder if the two possible problems, mentioned once only, in each part... Will merge into a mega-problem.

    A.k.a Mega-Death + Lifeline = Mega-problem?

    ... Hmm... Their codenames have opposite-ness... Death... Life... Hmm... ... Likely irrelevant?

    Ship, though?
    6 years 9 months ago #85 by Katssun
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: No one wants to defend Lord Paramount's take on Ethan Frome? :whistle:


    If only you had chosen a more accessible, brighter, more upbeat, novel, with an ultimately positive ending like Good Morning, Midnight.
    6 years 9 months ago #86 by Anne
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  • mhalpern wrote: Sorry I haven't said anything, time and now its basically all been said

    Really? There has been no speculation on whom exactly Jadis called. Did she call DR Dad? Or is there someone else who owes her a solid?
    6 years 9 months ago #87 by null0trooper
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  • Anne wrote:

    mhalpern wrote: Sorry I haven't said anything, time and now its basically all been said

    Really? There has been no speculation on whom exactly Jadis called. Did she call DR Dad? Or is there someone else who owes her a solid?


    Rumor has it even Lucifer the Morningstar himself owes her a solid by the time Gen2 rolls around.

    This only being her junior year at Whateley Academy, her access is limited to Emperor Joe, several NYC VIPs, the Easter Bunny, and Manchester United. No biggie.

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    6 years 9 months ago #88 by Sir Lee
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  • I doubt that Jadis would use that precise wording -- a "solid" -- if she was asking a favor from her father. One of her father's lieutenants, possibly. But a "solid" implies an exchange of favors, to be collectible at a future date. This is not something usually part of the parental-offspring dynamic.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #89 by Valentine
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  • Sir Lee wrote: I doubt that Jadis would use that precise wording -- a "solid" -- if she was asking a favor from her father. One of her father's lieutenants, possibly. But a "solid" implies an exchange of favors, to be collectible at a future date. This is not something usually part of the parental-offspring dynamic.


    I don't think Jadis and Dr. Dad have a normal parent offspring relationship.

    My first thought was that she was calling Jobs, but she wouldn't need the super secret uplink for that. The "solid" would be odd from her father though, although he seems to have the skill set.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #90 by Schol-R-LEA
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  • It's a good guess that it isn't Splendor, at least. But then, we don't know what she had in mind, nor what pull Geneva's family might have in the medical community, so it's not impossible. But this really doesn't sound like the sort of thing she'd call in a marker like that one for.

    My guess? Either Jobe, Phase, Thuban, or Dr. Nucleic (who you'll recall is working for Thuban and Phase's Bio-Regenetics Inc. enterprise, when he isn't busy extorting hardware and patents out of Jobe). However, each of those would raise questions if it is one of them. To say she doesn't trust Jobe as far as she could throw her (even in beast form when fully powered up) is probably accurate. We don't know of any connections Jadis has to Gellmar, though it is entirely possible that there is one - Jobe knew him, after all. I doubt she would bring this to Phase, given his history with Tansy. Thuban has had dealings with Solange in the past, but every time he's done so, he was putting the screws to her in one way or another, and I am guessing that Sheebs know that his price would be a hard one in one way or another.

    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Schol-R-LEA.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #91 by Katssun
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  • I kind of think it is Dr. Dad.

    Jadis never asks him for ANYTHING, and we know he made Solon-5. We don't hear all the details of what Tansy told Jads through sobs, but it probably came up as Tansy's only hope.

    Or maybe it is Gizmatic...we don't know what the fallout of the crown jewels incident was.
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Katssun.
    6 years 9 months ago #92 by Kettlekorn
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  • My money's also on Dr. Dad or an intermediary of his. Intelligence increase and life extension are two thirds of his agenda, so Alzheimer's is kind of a relevant obstacle to his plans for humanity. We also know that the experimental treatment under consideration is derived from Solon-4, so it's clear that others in-setting think his work could be used this way.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #93 by Anne
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  • My money is that Jadis did call Dr Dad. Except even given the rather strained (I think that is euphemistic enough...) relationship between herself and Dr Dad, calling in a solid seems to be a bit much of a stretch.
    So other candidates?
    Jobe? Not so much. Jadis probably believes that if Jobe were interested in the problem that (s)he could make large headway against the problem. Unfortunately Jobe does not always think through the solutions (s)he puts in place. Cancer beef is just one example of many including razor spinners!
    Phase?
    I doubt that Jadis has that much hold on Phase. I do believe that if she wants to really kick the research in gear, she will eventually be dealing with Phase. The question is can Phase deal professionally with Tansy given their history!?
    Dr Geller?
    Not sure we have enough information
    Thuban or someone working for him?
    I'm sure that Thuban or anyone still alive in his organization does not owe anyone else a solid. Probably most especially not Jadis!
    Gizmatic?
    I don't think his solution would be acceptable to Tansy and her family. So I thing that Jadis would probably not be calling him. Besides which this would eventually just involve Jobe by another means....
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Anne. Reason: i wanted to..
    6 years 9 months ago #94 by Sir Lee
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  • Myself, I'm thinking she's calling one of Dr. Dad's lieutenants (possibly the one who heads the research on the Solon drug family). The "solid" is because she's asking to do something behind Dr. Dad's back.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #95 by Anne
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Myself, I'm thinking she's calling one of Dr. Dad's lieutenants (possibly the one who heads the research on the Solon drug family). The "solid" is because she's asking to do something behind Dr. Dad's back.

    Or maybe because some how or other she had info that if Dr Dad knew it that would mean that the minion stopped being a minion because they stopped breathing, or at least Jadis convinced them that she was keeping Dr Dad from rendering them into spare parts!
    6 years 9 months ago #96 by null0trooper
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  • Katssun wrote: I kind of think it is Dr. Dad.


    Not to spoil things for the authors, so let's just say it's not Hekate's Master.

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    6 years 9 months ago #97 by Hardric
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  • Okay, seeing how late I am there, I think I'll go for the two parts of the story already published in one go. So, go it is...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    Wheew, that leaves me with only Brief Glimpses to catch up... And the next part I'm guessing is rather close by now. Random wild crazy shot in the dark. Or at least the story arriving tonight.
    6 years 9 months ago #98 by Anne
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  • Oh yes, we really do want to see the whole donnybrooke between Imp and Aunt June.... Sure to inspire many laughs!
    6 years 9 months ago #99 by joreymay
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  • Anne wrote: Oh yes, we really do want to see the whole donnybrooke between Imp and Aunt June.... Sure to inspire many laughs!


    We already did. And it did.
    6 years 9 months ago #100 by Mister D
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  • I can't help feeling that everything is going too well.

    When is the first shoe going to drop...?


    Measure Twice
    6 years 9 months ago #101 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Part three is up! Enjoy!

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #102 by Malady
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  • Woah! Soo much to discuss!

    Aww! Angie + Tansy interactions are so sweet! ... Hope she survives to Gen2!

    ----

    "Eileen Jablonski" ... Sounds familiar, but maybe just the first name. Need to reread that section to really understand the legal stuff.

    The Shelly + Elizabeth convo was really cool!

    ----

    oooh... Kayda really didn't understand how to deal with spirits on their terms, or whatever. Or at least didn't fully get the implications of the Coyote never lying, until the end...

    I think she "really" screwed up her meeting with Coyote... But at least she's still alive...

    ----

    ... Action Tactical's got a assassin on school grounds? Or just a informant that can defend herself??

    And we dunno who knows about Jill...

    ----

    And this story is now over... What's happening next, to all the characters we've seen, I wonder.
    6 years 9 months ago #103 by Yolandria
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  • That ending ...Mmmmph! Kitty now has a new ball of yarn to play with!

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    6 years 9 months ago #104 by calliedelnoire
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  • So good!

    But uh.. when did Carson’s girl get un-statues? An how did I miss THAT story?
    6 years 9 months ago #105 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: "Eileen Jablonski" ... Sounds familiar, but maybe just the first name. Need to reread that section to really understand the legal stuff.


    There's an Officer Helmann Jablonski on the Boston PD SWAT, and a Dr. Yablonski teaching Powers Lab and AP Physics I at Whateley.

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    6 years 9 months ago #106 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    To Seal Our Happiness Part 3 comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 9 months ago #107 by Kettlekorn
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  • I think I've mentioned this before, but every time I see the name "Action Tactical" I crack up.

    I also want to say that I enjoy the random little jaunts down Judicial Lane you toss in.

    @calliedelnoire: She was rescued in The Secret of the Forger's List, if that's what you're asking. I don't think we specifically saw her get her new body though.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #108 by null0trooper
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  • Dreamer wrote: Ugh, trying to goad Kayda like this, saying she is making decisions for everyone. And him bringing racism into it, I thought Coyote was more clever than this.


    Kayda is the one that took “That would be the white thing to do, wouldn't it?” as “That would be the wrong thing to do, wouldn't it?” Who's the racist? Likewise, it's likely that her (and Wakan Tanka's!) antipathy for Western everything that has held her back from learning more of it.

    There have already been some consequences of favoring one culture over the other, with more likely to come, but Kayda doesn't act as if she's recognizing that.


    “What Tribal Council?” she asked with a hint of impatience, but the spirit did not take notice.

    “Why, all of them, of course. All will want to hear the wisdom of the Ptesanwi, the one who knows better than they how to live their own life.”


    That is a criticism that she's going to be hearing for the rest of her life. Beneath that, one might well wonder if Kayda fully understands that she does primarily act as if The People == Lakota and as if Europe were a similar monolith. As the White Buffalo Calf Woman, there is a danger that many camps may adopt any Lakota customs she champions by example in place of their own. Is that truly any better for them than to adopt "European" ways?


    Dreamer wrote:

    “So certain are you!” chuckled Coyote. “I wonder what the lovely Danica would say to such claims? She is mourning her manhood today, isn't she? Shall I call her to hear her tell us how well her sister looks out for her?”

    “I didn't make Danny host Wihinape!” Kayda countered sternly. “And I surely wasn't going to inflict what I went through on a daughter I might have had with Lanie!”

    Using Danica like that, really hating Coyote right now.

    "And so you seized that power, wrapped yourself in a cloak of self-sacrifice and damn the consequences to anyone else!" the spirit continued as if Kayda hadn't interrupted. "What is your brother's manhood to you being the Ptesanwi?!” The grin got wider and a bit nasty. “But now you blame me for what you did to your own brother?”

    Now this is just monstrous, beyond manipulative imo.


    I'm not as confident that leaving Danny to fumble around without answers except from Coyote and without a female confidant or source of comfort other than TWFKAH is all that much better on Kayda's part.


    Dreamer wrote: Still, sometimes he is too brutal in his lessons.


    Or not brutal enough by half.

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    6 years 9 months ago #109 by Katssun
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  • Hot take comments!

    Honestly, I think the Shelley and Liz segment went on a little too long. Not that it didn't cover some interesting things, necessary things, but narratively, it felt like it supplanted the hints at the Maggie section introduced earlier, which never got closure in this story. No, it wasn't that much of the story, but it did feel a little dragged out.

    The looming Thanksgiving extravaganza? In Boston?! I fear for the worst!

    I liked that Coyote confronted Kayda now about the consequences of her choices. Even if she wants to be relatively hands-off, and she has been, acting as a mediator more than anything, people are going to expect her to be a leader. Or blame her when she acts, or doesn't act. It's not fair to Kayda, but that's part of the burden of being important and influential. The sooner she gets used to it, the sooner she can become more of the mediator she idolizes in Lanie and wants to be for her People. Danny is a good place to practice.

    Always love the "preview" of Tansy becoming a loving mother figure.

    The Marty and Naomi scene had me smirking like crazy. I'm glad that Marty is finally over her jitters, but I didn't realize she was torturing Naomi so badly every night! :P

    Tansy and Jadis getting along again can only spell doom for their enemies, and terror to the literary community. Their reconciliation warms my heart. Two girls, divided by teenage social constructs, finally admitting to themselves that mistakes were made, but true friendships endure. That Tansy trusts Jadis with the knowledge of her mercenary hires says a lot. Tansy knows how far Sheba's strings reach, and she trusts her with it. Furthermore, Jadis doesn't even pretend to want compensation, she gives her a freebie out of sympathy for Tansy's family situation. The two girls can relate in a way most can't. That's true friendship.

    I also liked that the reason Action Tactical backs Tansy and not her father is because he treats them like shit and Tansy doesn't. They're a means to an end to Teddy, and Tansy treats them like a loyal customer to a family business. She doesn't micromanage them, she trusts them and their methods. Give them a goal, let them competently perform it. That's real leadership. No wonder they respect her more.
    6 years 9 months ago #110 by mhalpern
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  • Last scene gets me excited, kitty's gonna come out to play, Theo's reputation will resemble a well loved catnip toy when she's done. I would like to see it be that Theo ends up giving most of the fuel, rather than planting evidence, uncovering what he's hid and making it end up in the hands of media, obvious first step is locking out the shell companies,

    I hope Caitlin reconciles with her mother soon.

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    6 years 9 months ago #111 by Hardric
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  • I dunno when I'll be able to go review on this one (or Imp 7, for that matter), but I need to vent now about the latest apparition of a certain flea-bloated asshole not as half as clever as Wile E Coyote. I expect this to go in all directions at a moment or another, and not always being constructive, so take it as a warning.


    First, he's factually... Not wrong. Just being the Ptesanwi means a power Kayda can't ignore and shaping lifes even if she isn't actively using it. And the way she acted in face of Danny's troubles... Was becoming frankly abject when you realize the depth of his situation. Constant emotional abuse, battalions of stalkers, total bullying... And she didn't react beyonfd laughs, when if she was being pursued round the clock by male admirers, taking a random sign as a 'proof she enjoy it', you'd heard the uproar in and out of universe. I have siblings too, and I want to believe they would have acted better in this situation, and most certainly hope I would have

    That being said and out of the way... FUCK YOU WITH A RUSTED CHAINSAW, YOU FUCKING AETHERIC VERMIN!

    And for something relatively more constructed:

    -Not telling to Danny? Dude, remember your timing, you didn't let her the choice here you went for Danny while she was still reeling of discovering about the fact her supposed daughter was the one with the doom ticket, you went for your sick fun in the following second. And Fuck You, you lied to this kid. Lying isn't just saying false things, it's also hiding info, like at fucking random 'Oh, chosing the power also meant his hypothetical daughter wouldn't get all that shit and worst thrown to her face, you know?' (Kayda should have gone full version after this).

    -Oh, and on the topic of lying... You want me to believe you could ahave rewritten reality when you offered that '''deal''' to Kayda to change it all? My. Soy. Sauce. Roasted. Chiken. Ass. And beyond that. I refuse to believe that fucker or anything can predict the future perfectly enough he's just Right. The idea he could do that leads me to think about a degree of determinism so bad than we can all throw our dreams to the toilet, everything is already predicted for eons to come. Oh right, THAT WAS A LIE TOO, because your little fuckery forgot predicting Brandon would have an Avatar trait. Conclusion? You're clearly not able to know everything, so Fuck You for trying to sell that as Truth. And to go back to Danny, he would still have that Avatar trait, and how the fuck can you be so certtain WT wouldn't still want Slut Kitty inside someone close to the Ptesanwi, like, I don't fucking know... Her uncle, by chance? Fuck You.

    -Riiight, that's incredibly assholishly selfish to take a power who already fucked up your life at several levels so you know your future kid isn't having this nice little side effects. Fuck You. And don't call me out on the actual egoism there, I'm venting at the fucker, please. Fuck, I'm even willing to not hold that one to WT, because of that crackish idea I had about how the decision was taken:


    Wakan Tanka: Bedside Rug and Uga Buga are down there on Earth? What is so important for these egocentric wankers amongst us aetehric bastards to go at the same time... Oh My Me, the Bastard's back, and he's already slaughtering the tribes of the People! Random Mook Spirit, how are the things going on the Ptesanwi front?

    Random Mook Spirit: Euh, Brandon is just manifesting now, Boss... Holy Fuck, turns out he's also an Avatar!

    WT: Thanks Me! I'm going now. Go fetch Tatanka!

    RMS: Euh Boss, you know that would mean unleashing things like that serpent critter?

    WT: Stealing human idiom right now: The building is on fucking fire! Who the fuck cares about the roof leaking?

    RMS: You could also trust Bedside Rug and uga Buga to deal with it quickly and without destroying the People as collateral damage.

    WT: . . .

    RMS: Yeah, can't understand I'd thought I'd be laughing here. Fetching the White Buffalo now. Good luck, Boss.

    -And now we go for the incredibly assholish way of delivering speech you fucking wanker have. Fuck You. Kayda's right, you're getting off on these barbs, and being passive aggressive about this abject shit doesn't mean in any fucking way you're not taking great pleasure at going that way rather going for plain truth. Oh look, you wanker is lying again. Jeez, for someone telling he never lies you do that a lot. I also notice the reaction to both the accuqations Kayda made. Tells a lot about its actual value to me, you know? And I'm not even telling how conveniently you sweep it under the rug when You do sometinhg... Oh. Wait.

    -And from a narrative viewpoint: I hate very much the way it was built up there, both the warning for Kigabidule coming and the Danica/Kayda scene. Te former? Looks like Kayda is only getting the warning if she duely suck up to the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote, who is Always Right, and if not? Fuck her, she can go in a dumpster fire. And the latter? She's not allowed to have the realization by herself, the stupid hateful bint, no sir, the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote has to tell her about it before she considers changing. Because the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote is Always Right.

    -Leading me to the last point, I hate the fact Coyote is painted as the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote, who is Always Right when he appears. Or at least that's the way I see it. Spirits in Whateleyverse who are high enough on the food chain are all egocentric jackasses in a way or another, but at the same time, things don't always go the way they want it, and that makes it bearable. Except for the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote, who is Always Right. He's always doing the objectively right thing, always, and since he's been there he automatically moves the lot forward when he's around, always in the '''right direction''', and because of that, he's 'allowed' to be an asshole of galactic proportions in the delivery, and woe to you if you object, because he looks like a Plot Device Level of Right when he acts, as it's normal for the Almighty Perfect Trickster Coyote, who is Always Right. And it drives me crazy. Just because his alleged functions is throwing barbs at the other egotistic wankers, makes things move on, and because he's a '''Trickster''' (Wukong is one too, people, and he doesn't need to be a fucktard to be one, food for thought), he's got the Ultimate Karma Houdini Pass, and I refuse to swallow that Kool-Aid. He's even worst than all these fucking wankers still thinking they're still living in their Atlantis Uber-Kewl Land, because that hypocrite asshole has the nerve to think himself better than all of creation because of the way he's acting, when at least they're open about the egotism if you look it right. A fucktard calling out other fucktards for their shit is still a fucktard, Asshole. Also, last point, what happened to your so precious Uber-Kewl Land? Oh right, that's a puddle between America and Europe now. Fuck You, fucking vermine-ridden maggot, you're not better, yu're not perfect, and I refuse to suck up your rotten balls, no matter how much right you could be. Vermin like you is why Team Humanity Fuck Yeah attract so many 'kill them all' whackos... Free Will Forever, Fucktard.

    And I can't believe it led me to think about that for even a second, how much of a Patreon contribution would be needed to have a story where that stupid wanker has to openly and clearly acknowledge 'I was wrong' or 'I fucked up'?

    Letting it out feels good.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #112 by Malady
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  • Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.

    And the sacrifices he made to get there and be the person that can always be trusted, was really tough and he can't stand someone sullying his sacrifices by calling him a liar.

    And possibly can only tell the truth when speaking to others, so he can't figure out anything when working alone...

    And the Petsawni should know all this, but doesn't, which makes him even more angry at how *stupid* or *ignorant* she is.

    Oh, and his offers to change the universe might require him to sacrifice himself or something, so that's a Really Big Offer. You Don't Even Know.
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 9 months ago #113 by Valentine
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  • Hardric, you shouldn't hold back. Let us know how you really feel.

    I'm kind of surprised that Shelley and Mrs. Carson hadn't had that sort of conversation before.

    I'm not sure if Tansy's Grandparents will adopt Angie, but I can see them setting up a fund for her schooling, and/or leaving her something in their wills. (Seeing Tansy's mom and grandparents, makes me wonder if dear old dad had something done to Tansy mind control wise.)

    Coyote is an ass, but that seems to be the way he teaches. IIRC from where Kayda is later preparing as Ptesnwi her ceremonial outfit contains elements from many tribes, and her "handmaidens" and guards are also drawn from multiple tribes.

    Gene is a jerk. Angie may end up with lots of "mommies."

    Thanksgiving in Boston with a half dozen or so super powered teens, two of which have a serious superhero goal. What could go wrong?

    I almost feel sorry for Mr. Walcutt, naaah I don't feel sorry for him at all.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 9 months ago #114 by Malady
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  • Valentine wrote: I almost feel sorry for Mr. Walcutt, naaah I don't feel sorry for him at all.


    What, the arranged marriage thing?

    I'm wanting to see what he'd be like if he wasn't forced into it, maybe he wouldn't be a big of a jerk. What do we know about him, pre-marriage again??

    Lol at Tansy + Trevor marrying, for political reasons, in AU.

    Lol if Mr. Walcutt is a low-level Esper Mutant too. But he got tested, right?

    Hmm... The ability to make Gene Engineered Psyhics, might mean there's PSI genes separate from the MGC, and he might have some of those? Those genes create a predisposition towards PSI mutations??
    6 years 9 months ago #115 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.


    Probably not, as in many of his legends he lies. A lot. It's more often than not for his own gain. However, humans are his favorite toys. Not one human, but humans as a species.

    If Kayda had allowed him to patch her timeline to the point that the story could have been played off as Coyote Tricks Unhcegila's Boys With A Painted Buffalo, she wouldn't still be in this mess. However, Coyote did choose to give her a choice in the matter instead of just going ahead and doing whatever he may have wanted to do, while Kayda chose to keep the power and prestige of being Ptesanwi, and the hawt girlfriend on the side. Now they are stuck with each other.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 9 months ago #116 by E. E. Nalley
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.


    Probably not, as in many of his legends he lies. A lot. It's more often than not for his own gain.


    Well, there's a good bit of leeway in legend telling, especially oral history. I imagine great chunks of stories were along the lines of:

    Aladdin: Wow, you sure showed me! Now, about my three wishes...
    Genie: Doth mine ears deceive me? Three? You are down by ONE, boy!
    Aladdin: (Smirking) Well, now, I never actually WISHED to get out of the cave, you did that on your own...


    :evil:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #117 by elrodw
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.


    Probably not, as in many of his legends he lies. A lot. It's more often than not for his own gain. However, humans are his favorite toys. Not one human, but humans as a species.

    If Kayda had allowed him to patch her timeline to the point that the story could have been played off as Coyote Tricks Unhcegila's Boys With A Painted Buffalo, she wouldn't still be in this mess. However, Coyote did choose to give her a choice in the matter instead of just going ahead and doing whatever he may have wanted to do, while Kayda chose to keep the power and prestige of being Ptesanwi, and the hawt girlfriend on the side. Now they are stuck with each other.


    Either way, Kayda got a smokin-hot girlfriend. If you recall, if he was Brandon, he'd end up with Laine. If she stayed Kayda, she had Deb.

    Power and prestige had little to do with it. It was primarily about NOT having a daughter with Lanie that was going to suffer the things Brandon/Kayda had gone through. As chosen, Lanie gets Wyatt - and presumably has happy family. Kayda stays Kayda, with the burdens of being the Ptesanwi (which she encountered on the first day of the 07/08 school year, if you recall. The tribes wanted her as supreme chief. The BIA wanted to control her.). So she has an inkling of what she's going to get into. She knows the troubles she had with Uncegila and his three sons, with the water panther, and so on. That's and the rape are what she takes upon herself to not have Brandon's and Lanie's daughter suffer through that.

    And she gets Deb.

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by elrodw.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #118 by Anne
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  • elrodw wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.


    Probably not, as in many of his legends he lies. A lot. It's more often than not for his own gain. However, humans are his favorite toys. Not one human, but humans as a species.

    If Kayda had allowed him to patch her timeline to the point that the story could have been played off as Coyote Tricks Unhcegila's Boys With A Painted Buffalo, she wouldn't still be in this mess. However, Coyote did choose to give her a choice in the matter instead of just going ahead and doing whatever he may have wanted to do, while Kayda chose to keep the power and prestige of being Ptesanwi, and the hawt girlfriend on the side. Now they are stuck with each other.


    Either way, Kayda got a smokin-hot girlfriend. If you recall, if he was Brandon, he'd end up with Laine. If she stayed Kayda, she had Deb.

    Power and prestige had little to do with it. It was primarily about NOT having a daughter with Lanie that was going to suffer the things Brandon/Kayda had gone through. As chosen, Lanie gets Wyatt - and presumably has happy family. Kayda stays Kayda, with the burdens of being the Ptesanwi (which she encountered on the first day of the 07/08 school year, if you recall. The tribes wanted her as supreme chief. The BIA wanted to control her.). So she has an inkling of what she's going to get into. She knows the troubles she had with Uncegila and his three sons, with the water panther, and so on. That's and the rape are what she takes upon herself to not have Brandon's and Lanie's daughter suffer through that.

    And she gets Deb.

    Some thoughts on Coyote. First if Coyote tells the truth, he only tells the part of the truth that would lead you to do what he wants you to do. Or in other words he tells the truth only from his perspective.
    Also, if he is a teacher, his lessons are more in the line of always be aware of your surroundings, and nothing is exactly as you think it is. I need to think on this some more to round out my version of Coyote if (when maybe) I Continue Kelly as she is hosting what I call a shard of Coyote.
    The coyote (and thus Coyote) has lived for a long time in close proximity to people, not so close as the dog, but close enough that any coyote might raid the unwary camp for a meal, whether part of the day's catch or a pair of moccasins. It might take to raiding the women and children's trap lines or other mayhem. So its spirit became the trickster, ever near, ever hiding, ever misdirecting your eyes if possible, and ever willing to lead you on a fruitless chase.
    As to whether or not Coyote could actually have done what he said and undone what was done to Brandon? YMMV. I suspect such a move would have cost him quite a bit, and may not have turned out nearly like he told Kayda, after all he was telling the truth as he wanted her to interpret it. The same with Danny/Dannica. Which means that Kayda really ought to get over her urge (not that she's apt to) to punish Danny for past wrongs, study deeply the lore about Coyote, and then make a friend of her brother/sister. Yeah she loses some opportunity to get payback for sibling annoyances, but the people you will have in your life the longest (generally) are your siblings, learning to get along with them is a good thing!

    Other thoughts. Though Kayda has sort of ignored the possibility, as has Coyote (we wonder why) she could have a turkey baster baby and chose the father for genetic reasons if it became an issue with the tribes. I don't think medical science (even in WAU) is advanced enough that she and Deborah could have each other's children.... and it is highly unlikely that Brandon banked any sperm...
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Anne. Reason: missing tag
    6 years 9 months ago #119 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Anne wrote: As to whether or not Coyote could actually have done what he said and undone what was done to Brandon? YMMV. I suspect such a move would have cost him quite a bit, and may not have turned out nearly like he told Kayda, after all he was telling the truth as he wanted her to interpret it.


    Coyote depends, and gets great amusement from us hearing his words and filling in what WE WANT to hear. Go back and read There's No Place Like Poe Part Five again. Or, for the Teal Deer out there, consider this, the relevant passage from what Coyote is promising Brandon...

    Coyote The Trickster wrote: "I place two roads at your feet, Brandon Franks," Coyote replied. "One is an easy path, pleasant, beautiful and full of company and joys. The other is a hard path, fraught with peril, of your mind, of your body, of your very soul, and while there is joy on this path, it is hard-won and there is much blood to be paid for it. The Pict daughter was to be the mother of the Ptesanwi to make it easier for her to at last unite our people's. Red and white becoming brothers because in her blood flowed that of both people. That future is almost gone, but I give you the choice now. You have but to ask and I will undo all the evil that has been done to you. I will restore your manhood, your future, and your wife. Or, forgive she who wronged you, embrace her deceit and try to unite the People's yourself."


    Everyone here interprets that to mean Coyote will turn back time, make it so that Brandon wasn't raped and everything will be fine. Keep in mind he is saying this TO BRANDON, not Kayda. By his own words, a fictional Brandon that came to Whateley as himself and he has turned Kayda into this person when he makes this pledge. And he doesn't promise anything of the sort. What evil has been done to Fictional Brandon?

    THIS is why Mrs Carson is so hot on why dealing with spirits is Dangerous with a capital D. Even a spirit that cannot lie has its own frame of reference you can't easily know. And your suppositions could be wrong. Could Coyote have kept his promise? Well, the soul that began to call itself Kayda Franks was a man when that promise was offered. So that was already established. The question really is, what was Coyote REALLY offering?

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 9 months ago #120 by Kettlekorn
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  • Malady wrote:

    Valentine wrote: I almost feel sorry for Mr. Walcutt, naaah I don't feel sorry for him at all.


    What, the arranged marriage thing?

    Pretty sure Valentine's talking about Hartford presenting him as a scratching post for Cyberkitty.

    Malady wrote: I'm wanting to see what he'd be like if he wasn't forced into it, maybe he wouldn't be a big of a jerk. What do we know about him, pre-marriage again??

    I really doubt it. First of all, this is America. We do not have forced marriages. It would have been a choice between self determination and his inheritance. It could therefor be argued that he is a kind of gold digger -- he only married Marissa for the sake of money and power. He could have refused; he could have taken his upbringing, contacts, and education, and rebuilt himself without his family's support. Same goes for Marissa. She was in the same boat as Theodore and made the same idiot decision.

    Secondly, it's just a marriage. It's not like he was subjected to torture. Reaching the point where you have your wife committed, whore out your teenage daughter, and eventually try to hire mercs to kidnap your now-adult daughter for choosing to not remain your tool? That is not the result of an unsatisfying, unwanted marriage. Even if it was bothering him that much, they could have simply gotten a divorce, ended things properly and fairly, and moved on. If something is pushing you to the point of becoming a monster, the responsible thing to do is to exit the situation so that you don't become a monster, even if that means making sacrifices. Instead, he bided his time and then seized on the opportunity presented by her mental illness not only take her assets and eject her from his life, but to deprive her of having a life by locking her away. Rather than treat her as a fellow victim of their own weak wills and their control-freak parents' meddling, or even as a simple obstacle to overcome, he chose instead to treat her as an Enemy.

    Besides, even if both he and Marissa wanted the money and power enough to keep the marriage, that doesn't mean they needed to be suffocated by it. We're not exactly living in some Old Testament hellhole where adultery gets you stoned to death. They could have agreed to maintain the legal aspects of their marriage -- tying their fortunes and families together -- while also agreeing to treat it as a business arrangement rather than an exclusive and mandatory sexual relationship. If you've read Sanderson's Wax and Wayne series, think of the approach Sterris took to a political marriage she assumed would be unfulfilling. That is how a good person handles this kind of situation.

    Theodore Walcutt is not a good person. Maybe he was, a long time ago, before something broke him. We've seen that kind of thing with Tansy. But an arranged marriage as the critical factor? No. If something other than his own nature made him this way, it was not marrying Marissa Dawson that did it.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #121 by Valentine
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  • Malady wrote:

    Valentine wrote: I almost feel sorry for Mr. Walcutt, naaah I don't feel sorry for him at all.


    What, the arranged marriage thing?

    I'm wanting to see what he'd be like if he wasn't forced into it, maybe he wouldn't be a big of a jerk. What do we know about him, pre-marriage again??

    Lol at Tansy + Trevor marrying, for political reasons, in AU.

    Lol if Mr. Walcutt is a low-level Esper Mutant too. But he got tested, right?

    Hmm... The ability to make Gene Engineered Psyhics, might mean there's PSI genes separate from the MGC, and he might have some of those? Those genes create a predisposition towards PSI mutations??


    What Cyberkitty and Ms. Hartford are going to do him.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 9 months ago #122 by Katssun
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  • Anne wrote: Some thoughts on Coyote. First if Coyote tells the truth, he only tells the part of the truth that would lead you to do what he wants you to do. Or in other words he tells the truth only from his perspective.
    ...
    The coyote (and thus Coyote) has lived for a long time in close proximity to people, not so close as the dog, but close enough that any coyote might raid the unwary camp for a meal, whether part of the day's catch or a pair of moccasins. It might take to raiding the women and children's trap lines or other mayhem. So its spirit became the trickster, ever near, ever hiding, ever misdirecting your eyes if possible, and ever willing to lead you on a fruitless chase.
    As to whether or not Coyote could actually have done what he said and undone what was done to Brandon? YMMV. I suspect such a move would have cost him quite a bit, and may not have turned out nearly like he told Kayda, after all he was telling the truth as he wanted her to interpret it. The same with Danny/Dannica. Which means that Kayda really ought to get over her urge (not that she's apt to) to punish Danny for past wrongs, study deeply the lore about Coyote, and then make a friend of her brother/sister. Yeah she loses some opportunity to get payback for sibling annoyances, but the people you will have in your life the longest (generally) are your siblings, learning to get along with them is a good thing!

    Well...elrod and EE have been pushing emphasizing quite strongly that Coyote reveres himself as a teacher. And Wakan Tanka does not disagree with him!

    He doesn't lie, and is quite proud of it. But he comes off as a jerk to us because in our society, we constantly lie.
    "No, that outfit looks great on you!"
    "Your presentation went great, they just didn't seem to get what you were trying to convey."
    "This offer is risk free! Just pay shipping and handling!"
    "Your new tattoo is...interesting."
    "New haircut? Very refreshing look for you."
    "I'm so busy, I haven't had a chance to look at your email..."
    "Your child was an absolute angel today..."
    Discerning the truth from humans is so ingrained in our upbringing, It's part of the reason why the whites of our eyes are visible, very unusual compared to other mammals. We evolved to watch each other's eye movements, because that is often a pretty good tell for most of the population.

    So, what was Coyote trying to teach Kayda here? My guess? Grow up.

    Sure, Kayda is involved in this plot to lure out Hekate's Master, she's officially in a trio with Lanie and Tansy doing super cool secret missions, she's doing interdimensional travel, rescuing trapped souls, healing the possessed and broken, liaison to the BIA, literally saving the world...

    ...but she's still a teenage girl. She's the chosen shaman/healer of The People, and more than that. She's probably the most important healer/shaman since Charlie Lodgeman and Kodiak (the spirit, not Wyatt).

    Her brother (sometimes sister) needs her. Who else could possibly understand Danny's current issues as well as Kayda? Being bullied, being attacked, being stalked, ridiculed, demeaned, turning into a girl, feeling inadequate and worthless and developing a persecution complex. But what has she been doing? Taking pictures. Smirking, laughing, enjoying it. Writing it all off as revenge for when Danny was a brat to her back home. The same brother who stood side-by-side with their father, armed with a rifle to make sure she escaped safely.

    Kayda is a healer, she's a mediator, she's a great listener, she's suffered herself. She has provided so much to so many other people, and she ignores the suffering of her own kin.

    Coyote was providing her a little perspective.
    6 years 9 months ago #123 by Kettlekorn
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: The question really is, what was Coyote REALLY offering?

    The way I interpreted all of that was that he was offering agency. Kayda felt like she'd had no choice. Of the many things she's upset about, the only one she'd had even a scrap of agency in at all was being raped -- she could have stayed home like an intelligent person. Even considering that bit of stupidity, it would be a pretty ugly stretch to say she chose that fate. And the rest? Manifesting, her friends trying to murder her, becoming a girl, being run out of town, and being hunted by demons? All of that was forced upon her.

    The choice Coyote offered was never about the potential other course of events that could happen if Kayda chose differently. It was about making Kayda choose at all. Prior to his interference, Kayda could say, "I never asked for this! Fuck off!" Coyote took that away from her. He made her choose, and she chose Kayda and Ptesanwi. Now she's responsible for her situation; no making excuses to get out of her duties. And by choosing this fate and body, she also gained ownership. Her sex is no longer something that was forced on her, but rather something she chose to accept. That's important for her long term mental stability.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #124 by Malady
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: It would have been a choice between self determination and his inheritance.


    Hmm... I'm not sure that's all at stake. That's just only what we know is at stake, there could be more, and I expect more, from high society manipulators.

    Kettlekorn wrote: He could have refused; he could have taken his upbringing, contacts, and education, and rebuilt himself without his family's support. Same goes for Marissa. She was in the same boat as Theodore and made the same idiot decision.


    Dunno how he could've refused... We just know he was forced into it, sorta.

    "He had not been blindsided this badly since his father had informed him of his engagement to Marissa in college, whether he liked it or not."

    ...

    Did we get Marissa's side of the story? I forget.

    Kettlekorn wrote: Secondly, it's just a marriage. It's not like he was subjected to torture.


    Hm... This is where I really disagree. A marriage is highly political, and all about optics? So if they divorced, it'd be public and affect their public image and stuff??

    Maybe he could only go through these multiple marriages because he got enough money by this point to do it? ... Is there anything for, or against, the idea that Mr. Walcutt is not under the control of someone else?

    Is Mr. Walcutt's father still alive??

    Kettlekorn wrote: Reaching the point where you have your wife committed, whore out your teenage daughter, and eventually try to hire mercs to kidnap your now-adult daughter for choosing to not remain your tool?


    Yeah. That's pretty bad.[/quote]

    ----

    End point is that I don't think we have the whole story, and I'm trying to be positive and think of Mr. Walcutt as a person who could've been better.

    ----

    Valentine wrote: What Cyberkitty and Ms. Hartford are going to do him.


    I don't feel sorry about that at all. 'Cause that affects the horrible person Mr. Walcutt was now, not the possibly better person he was / could've been.
    6 years 9 months ago #125 by Katssun
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: Coyote depends, and gets great amusement from us hearing his words and filling in what WE WANT to hear. Go back and read There's No Place Like Poe Part Five again. Or, for the Teal Deer out there, consider this, the relevant passage from what Coyote is promising Brandon...

    Coyote The Trickster wrote: "I place two roads at your feet, Brandon Franks," Coyote replied. "One is an easy path, pleasant, beautiful and full of company and joys. The other is a hard path, fraught with peril, of your mind, of your body, of your very soul, and while there is joy on this path, it is hard-won and there is much blood to be paid for it. The Pict daughter was to be the mother of the Ptesanwi to make it easier for her to at last unite our people's. Red and white becoming brothers because in her blood flowed that of both people. That future is almost gone, but I give you the choice now. You have but to ask and I will undo all the evil that has been done to you. I will restore your manhood, your future, and your wife. Or, forgive she who wronged you, embrace her deceit and try to unite the People's yourself."


    Everyone here interprets that to mean Coyote will turn back time, make it so that Brandon wasn't raped and everything will be fine. Keep in mind he is saying this TO BRANDON, not Kayda. By his own words, a fictional Brandon that came to Whateley as himself and he has turned Kayda into this person when he makes this pledge. And he doesn't promise anything of the sort. What evil has been done to Fictional Brandon?

    THIS is why Mrs Carson is so hot on why dealing with spirits is Dangerous with a capital D. Even a spirit that cannot lie has its own frame of reference you can't easily know. And your suppositions could be wrong. Could Coyote have kept his promise? Well, the soul that began to call itself Kayda Franks was a man when that promise was offered. So that was already established. The question really is, what was Coyote REALLY offering?


    Now that you bring it back up...it is exceptionally ambiguous which path is which, the way Coyote phrases it.

    Which is worse, suffering yourself, or witnessing your child go through it? The Bastard comes when the Bastard comes, regardless of who is the Ptesanwi.
    6 years 9 months ago #126 by null0trooper
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: Everyone here interprets that to mean Coyote will turn back time, make it so that Brandon wasn't raped and everything will be fine.


    Not exactly "everything will be fine". The only evil mentioned was Wakan Tanka chosing to use Brandon as an early conduit for Ptesanwi's return. Just because Kayda wasn't there to be beaten and raped, that doesn't mean that Brandon doesn't get beaten and his girlfriend raped. Because the events that happened and had consequences by or for others would still happen, just maybe to other people.

    E. E. Nalley wrote: The question really is, what was Coyote REALLY offering?


    Nothing, and everything. The show must go on - and will - with or without anyone's consent. It's just that Union negotiations are easier if Management gets the signatures in advance.

    E. E. Nalley wrote: THIS is why Mrs Carson is so hot on why dealing with spirits is Dangerous with a capital D.


    We've also seen her making the same mistake of dealing with her personal narrative of what Coyote is instead of Coyote as-is. At some point I would expect to see her hand get slapped.

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    6 years 9 months ago #127 by Anne
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  • If we're going to continue to discuss Coyote here, maybe this whole discussion, since he came up ought to be moved over to the discussion thread I started about Coyote. Of course that is up to the moderators.
    There is some discussion to be had about Kayda. One thing I hope to see soon is the fallout from her apology to Danny/Danica in this arc. That was elided over quite a bit as these were really just vignettes while we looked in on various actors. But there are seeds for several stories here. For example, I don't know if anyone will tell it but what will the fallout be of Tansy knowing her grandmother has Alzheimer's? What will she do? Who will she contact?
    Sure everyone focused on the 'squirrel' or should I say the were panther who got a new ball of yarn to play with at the end, but there really is quite a bit of meat in other places than just Coyote slapping Kayda's hands because she is picking at her sibling.
    6 years 9 months ago #128 by Sir Lee
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  • Going back to the Walcutts' arranged marriage...

    I'm thinking that Theo's version of "being pressured into an arranged marriage" may be overstating the facts a bit. More likely scenario: families knew each other for a while, everybody thought Theo and Marissa were "perfect for each other" and kept giving not-so-subtle hints. They ended up dating for a while, Marissa entertaining the idea of it evolving into marriage, Theo only interested in having fun with her. But then she got pregnant... (hey, contraceptives are NOT perfect) and the family pressure to "make it right" came like a ton of bricks.

    Main reasons why I consider Theo's version unlikely are:
    - Arranged marriages? In America, mid-to-late eighties? Really?
    - How much could be riding on that marriage in order for Grandad Walcutt to feel the need to apply pressure? This is not the Middle Ages, business deals and alliances are made in the board room, not at the wedding chapel.
    - Kicking Theo out would be writing off all the investment made on him, and also cause a minor scandal. Not something to be done unless there was something more serious than "kid doesn't want to settle down." A pregnancy might be enough of a minor scandal to make Grandpa Walcutt to see red, however.
    - The Dawsons seem too nice to have forced Marissa into it.
    - Marissa does not seem to blame her parents for the marriage -- apparently, she went into it willingly, without noticing Theo's character faults.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #129 by Katssun
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  • Anne wrote: That was elided over quite a bit as these were really just vignettes while we looked in on various actors. But there are seeds for several stories here. For example, I don't know if anyone will tell it but what will the fallout be of Tansy knowing her grandmother has Alzheimer's? What will she do? Who will she contact?

    I think the answer to this one has been staged and foreshadowed very clearly by this story. Solon-5 trials has been mentioned as a possible solution by her grandfather, Tansy and Jadis are friends again and Tansy has poured her heart out to her about her recent troubles regarding her grandmother, and we know who makes Solon-5....
    6 years 9 months ago #130 by Kettlekorn
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  • Katssun wrote:

    Anne wrote: That was elided over quite a bit as these were really just vignettes while we looked in on various actors. But there are seeds for several stories here. For example, I don't know if anyone will tell it but what will the fallout be of Tansy knowing her grandmother has Alzheimer's? What will she do? Who will she contact?

    I think the answer to this one has been staged and foreshadowed very clearly by this story. Solon-5 trials has been mentioned as a possible solution by her grandfather, Tansy and Jadis are friends again and Tansy has poured her heart out to her about her recent troubles regarding her grandmother, and we know who makes Solon-5....

    The trials involve Solon-4, not Solon-5. So far Solon-5 has only been mentioned in Gen-2.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #131 by mhalpern
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  • Malady wrote: Coyote might actually be tied to some Universal Truthteller Ability, so he literally can't lie.

    And the sacrifices he made to get there and be the person that can always be trusted, was really tough and he can't stand someone sullying his sacrifices by calling him a liar.

    And possibly can only tell the truth when speaking to others, so he can't figure out anything when working alone...

    And the Petsawni should know all this, but doesn't, which makes him even more angry at how *stupid* or *ignorant* she is.

    Oh, and his offers to change the universe might require him to sacrifice himself or something, so that's a Really Big Offer. You Don't Even Know.

    I think Coyote merely prefers not to lie, deceptions are more fun that way

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 9 months ago #132 by Sir Lee
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  • Of course. Outright lying is for amateurs. A true artist of the deception will say nothing but the truth, and still lead the mark down the wrong path.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #133 by Hardric
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  • Okay, Getting backlog coming back is getting tiresome quickly... So I'll bet on an Imp release for a Double C&C later and be done with this one now.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    Happy to have this one done. Though I'd like to be happier about it...

    ...Fuck Wile E Coyote, he just has to ruin enjoyment of the stories for me. Seriously, this guy is the hellish fusion of everything I hate about a character, total assholery, blatant hypocrisy, deviousness beyond the pale, the empathy of a shark having smelled blood, a sense of absolute and total superiority about everything and sadist pleasure about indulging it, the nerve of claiming a moral high ground when mass murderers should be rightfully calling out its bullshit, if not for a perfect Karma Houdini Warranty, Obvious Total Plot Backing, regarding humans as fucktoys to play with... Why people here keep worshipping this wanker? Please tell me, because I need to understand what exactly is supposed ot be interesting at any point about that fucker. Besides the moment his smugness is stripped away and he end up getting gruesomely slaughtered.
    6 years 9 months ago #134 by null0trooper
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  • Hardric wrote: How hard is resurrection here?



    It's right up there with efficient and foolproof time travel.

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    6 years 9 months ago #135 by Anne
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Hardric wrote: How hard is resurrection here?



    It's right up there with efficient and foolproof time travel.

    You know what the genie said in Aladdin? Very ugly!!

    Yeah Coyote likes to make the story revolve around himself. When he warns you of something, you're beyond the pale. Oh and yeah the White Buffalo Calf Woman is going to be his favorite chew toy.
    6 years 9 months ago #136 by Kettlekorn
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  • Hardric wrote: And any emotional value this scene should have had was utterly destroyed because it was all a Coyote Interrupt, and no proper character development to be proud of... And people applaud this... I just don't understand...

    And if Peacock or Downpour or Mrs. Horton had been the one to tell her she was out of line? Would you still claim no character development happened?

    Hardric wrote: Why people here keep worshipping this wanker?

    I think that your perception of how people feel about Coyote is being distorted by your hate.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 9 months ago #137 by Anne
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  • Kettlekorn wrote:

    Hardric wrote: And any emotional value this scene should have had was utterly destroyed because it was all a Coyote Interrupt, and no proper character development to be proud of... And people applaud this... I just don't understand...

    And if Peacock or Downpour or Mrs. Horton had been the one to tell her she was out of line? Would you still claim no character development happened?

    Hardric wrote: Why people here keep worshipping this wanker?

    I think that your perception of how people feel about Coyote is being distorted by your hate.

    I think that at least one other person mentioned to Kayda that she was not being a mentor to Danny. I don't recall whom though. Still because he can sort of see from further outside and may (probably does) have his own agenda for both of them Coyote is going to be interfering with their lives.
    He probably still is lazy, horny, etc et al. but don't let that distract from the fact that he too has a place in the war against the Bastard and that in the end he does not want the Bastard to win, if for no other reason than a win by the Bastard would deprive him of his favorite chew toys.
    It is just up to us to make sure we don't attract his attention and that once we have his attention to make sure he doesn't lead us on fruitless chases for his own entertainment.
    6 years 9 months ago #138 by Hardric
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: I think that your perception of how people feel about Coyote is being distorted by your hate.


    Pretty sure that's true. So, once more, with sanity, no swearing, and minimal hatred for... Coyote, my one problem with the story here: The scene leading up to Kayda and Danny patching up.

    It was necessary, and going by all variations of 'about time' present here, not really late at all. That said, this scene is a narrative failure for me for two reasons:

    1°) Kayda's character development here is like switch being flipped open/close at convenience rather than an actual realization of how nasty her behavior was: Alright, Elrod's world of troubles in Real Life cannot have helped in any way here, but there is no way around the fact Kayda remained utterly static in her treatment of Danny during the two monthes. And frankly, I feel like it cheapens and lessen her character, giving us a nasty little harpy gleefully watching her brother suffer emotional abuse 'round the clock with a smile. It was time something happened, but the whole lot of nothing between the two is frankly jarring:

    No reaction when the abuse led to a meltdown back at Poe? No subconscient comparation to her own problems and how much she would feel if all males of the school stalked her like this, arguing 'she enjoys it', or thinking about the scars raping left her with, and realizing how similar the issues are? Not even once? The degree of vapidness, selfishness and nastiness involved is staggering in my mind. And that's even worst when Nalley tells us she didn't really react after the outing of Evil That Men Do. You won't have me believe that 'Brandon' getting out for the rest of the school isn't a fear Kayda is playing with some nights before sleeping. So seriously, even with this nothing happened before this conversation in this room? She failed that much at basic empathy with her own brother?

    That's... Incredibily degrading for her as a character, and for... Let's keep that part for 2°). And it get all fixed in one conversation here, like a switch flipped open? And se literaly acknowledges she didn't give a real duck about it, or thought about it before? Honestly, I can't see this as good character development in any way. And it especially hurts that this is about kayda, because she's a favorite character fro me, and last thing I want is to think "Trouble X or Y is happening to kayda? Whatever, it will run the exact same way until the writers tire of it or Plt needs to advance, and then they'll flip the switch to go forward". Heck, the idea of this happening to any character is sick. But let's go with 'One Conversation To Fix It' as the only possible way forward here...

    2°) Was ...Coyote really the only one option for getting the message through? Did it have to be the Plot Device. Because beyond the... forceful opinion about him I have I see ...Coyote as nothing else as a Plot Device: Old beyond counting of time, pretty much unchanging, ultra powerful, outsider, and omniscient morality licence. And every time it puts its paws on the plot, it... cheapens it for me:

    -Revelation about Ptesanwi: Heck, it even lowers its own value in this story. The only way the Great Trickster could break this one out was with all this heavy-handed, blatant posturing, and being so bombastic even Kodiak could have called foul, rather than letting hints to piece together to just spring in when Kayda lash out after learning the truth? Great job at subtlety. And 'pressed for time'? You mean he was so blind-sided not only he had to ditch subtlety but had to go for a force-feeding of the most extreme hypocrisy? Cheap.

    -Evil That Men Do and Kigabidule: Kayda and Wyatt should have died, that's what I get from the story. Everything which has been meaningful for their eventual survival was done by ...Coyote, or it micro-managed it so hard it's just the same. Making all the rest of the cast and the staff look utterly incompetent and powerless, something esecially jarring between the ease of dispatching him during this Round 2, and the way Round 1 went with the Outcasts and Lodgeman. The people at Whateley the characters the story is about, and they could just as well been furnitures for all the good they did. Again, last thing I want is to think "X is happening? Whatever, they flail uselessly one episode or two, thenthe Plot Device will fix it all for them." when I read a story.

    -This dang conversation: I already told why I think this scene hurts Kayda's character, and frankly, the fact it had to go for the bombastic intruding is hurting... Coyote too. And the fact again, he couldn't get the message across more subtly or sooner. But other characters are frankly hurt by this mess: Kayda's friends.

    Yeah, Lanie, who has a brother, had to deal with shenanigans and ad to know about the way Danny fared thanks to Rosalyn, and Tansy, who has experience about laughing from others' pain and has been pretty much the only person on Danny's side from Day One. You want me to believe none of them did anything about the way Kayda behaved? No "Hey, my brother can be a pain too, but I think the joke has run for long enough, don't you think?", no "Careful there, Kayda. Your brother is going through a world of pain, and the way you reacts to it... It reminds me about Old Me, if you catch my drift..."? Heck, Rosalyn couldn't say anything to Kayda either? And after the meltdown from the outing, absolutely no one ever went to Kayda and said "Look, siblings teasing is good fun and all, but your brother has pierced rock-bottom now. I really think you should talk about it with him."? Not even Danny going at her and rightfully calling her out at all, for that matter?

    Just how much of a disservice it is for all these characters are so passive than none of them took any action in the month and half before the Giga-Blizzard, and none of them even raised an eyebrow in the two weeks after when Kayda seemingly ignored this? An awful lot for me, only compounded by the fact in the end of the day, it wasn't any of the characters of the story who tried to fix this mess, but ...The Plot Device. None of them was allowed to grow and make their own story happen alone, and it hurts for me.

    TL, DR? If two good flavors taste great together, two bad flavors (Instant Character Development, Just Press Button and Why Have Characters Do It When The Plot Device Can Hog It?) taste horrible together.
    6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #139 by Anne
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  • Frankly we have only seen Kayda's interaction with Danny from Danny's perspective for the most part. He is feeling (correctly or incorrectly persecuted by his older sibling. Some of that I'm sure is true. Some of that is simply his hypersensitivity to the issue.
    Now that doesn't mean that Kayda is without fault. It also doesn't mean that Kayda, from whom we have very little of late except her in the Teepee with Kodiak which is a very narrow bit of her life, has not been getting the talk from others about treating Danny better. After all she and Kodiak are far more interested in their immediate survival than talking about other problems that have been pushed to the back of their minds. What seems to have happened, and to have drawn Coyote's attention is that the spirit for whom she is an avatar saw the opportunity to jump in the game early.
    According to Coyote, this was a violation of said spirit's 'rules', this apparently (though we don't know how Coyote may be slanting his take on the truth) opened up the ability of the snake-demon to manifest. It probably woke up other things like Kittylicksitsbutt. So here is Kayda, 'I'm so persecuted,' then she sees Danny in a situation that she knows is embarrassing to him and what does she do? Laughs at him, takes pictures of him etc et al. Which essentially presents her to Coyote for everything except getting humped. And hey if you can break her whole I'm terrified of men by sticking her in with Kodiak for a supernatural snow storm why not make sure that happens.
    Remember what I said about her having good luck and that about to run out? Kittylicksitsbutt is on his third swing at her. She has as yet failed to do much damage to the monster. Her only help so far has been Coyote. We also don't see what her spirits were doing to help her. It may be that because she is a shaman and her spirit is basically a shaman that Kittylicksitsbutt is able to block their connection, since it was created by the bastard to hunt and kill shamans. We simply don't know.
    We have seen that Kittylicksitbutt is a very powerful being. Nothing done to it to date, other than Coyote setting up Lanie and Tansy to kill it in the astral has harmed it much, and even that didn't do it enough harm that it can't recover, if no one is hunting it, which they may be but we aren't seeing. So Coyote is poking at Kayda to get back on the trail. She's lucky he isn't humping her leg and trying to distract her that way. Things must be very serious indeed.
    Kayda has been being pushed by HM toward black magic. Well that and all of her combat classes demanding that she find some offensive spells. Part of the problem is that Kayda who should be a medic is somehow always on the front line. That makes it hard for her to do her best work which is as a medic so to speak. It isn't even as if she is going forward to rescue other people. No there are parts of the other 'army' that specifically are hunting her or those like her. She has been able to meet those hunting her and defeat them. Most of them are dead. But there obviously must have been more than one type of shaman hunter, simply because in the end the bastard also believes in overkill or pass me more ammunition so I can send more souls to hell.
    Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Anne. Reason: added more.
    6 years 9 months ago #140 by elrodw
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  • Note that I haven't written anything from a Kayda POV for quite a while - since my muse is AWOL. This is NOT a Kayda POV story; it's primarily about Lanie and Tansy. How does Kayda see things? That viewpoint hasn't been told yet. And have things for Danny been as bad as Coyote implies? Has Kayda been a total jerk toward Danny? We don't see from this POV.

    Remember this: "unreliable narrator"

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