×

Notice

The forum is in read only mode.
× Float your latest theory on who is going to be this school year's big bad, piece together plot points to unravel one of the big mysteries, or guess what's coming up next in your favorite stories.

Anything is fair game... just don't complain when someone with more Whateley-verse savvy shoots your theory out of the sky.

Posting rules: Any registered member can create threads or post to existing ones.

Question The Last Ride!

6 years 8 months ago #1 by Yolandria
  • Yolandria
  • Yolandria's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 595

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Looks like we have another installment in the Gen 1 universe. Post your comments in the section below.

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #2 by Malady
    • Malady
    • Malady's Avatar


  • Posts: 3893

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Gen 0, I'd think.

    Very unexpected story, as all stories that don't follow the main storylines are.

    But very nicely actiony as well!

    The voice is very different from all the rest, but fits the high humor and digressions of some other Gen 0 works, like Razzle Dazzle, among others?

    Unreliable Narrator is active... But if all this is taken as true, then Goodkind History is getting real interesting...

    And the Hallowells... Had no kids? Well, none are mentioned, but lack of evidence is not evidence of absence...

    As this story doesn't paint a good light of the Goodkinds, I presume it's been suppressed...

    Also, the chances of more stories about the Immortals, since there's gotta be more books, and this is more an Origin Story for the group than anything else.

    Hallowell's Proof is famous, as it's been mentioned in The Evil That Men Do... But, that Immortals History... How good can a suppression campaign be, that Hallowell's Proof survived history, but presumably not these stories?

    It's about 8 generations from Gen 1... A lot of time for descendants and stuff to have happened...
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 8 months ago #3 by Mister D
    • Mister D
    • Mister D's Avatar


  • Posts: 832

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Delicious and chewy. Back-story and world-building. :D

    Bravo. :D


    Measure Twice
    6 years 8 months ago #4 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Malady wrote: Gen 0, I'd think.


    Correct.

    Malady wrote: Unreliable Narrator is active... But if all this is taken as true, then Goodkind History is getting real interesting...

    And the Hallowells... Had no kids? Well, none are mentioned, but lack of evidence is not evidence of absence...

    As this story doesn't paint a good light of the Goodkinds, I presume it's been suppressed...


    Suppressed? I'm not sure that's the word I would use. After all, how many of us have read Wyatt Earp's My Friend, Doc Holiday?



    Unreliable Narrator, well, is there another kind? :D And yes, the Hallowell's had children, grand children and more.

    Malady wrote: Also, the chances of more stories about the Immortals, since there's gotta be more books, and this is more an Origin Story for the group than anything else.

    Hallowell's Proof is famous, as it's been mentioned in The Evil That Men Do... But, that Immortals History... How good can a suppression campaign be, that Hallowell's Proof survived history, but presumably not these stories?


    Oh the stories survived, as I pointed out, they're just old and mostly out of print. But yes, James wrote a whole slew of novels about his and Jasmine's adventures with the Immortals. Who knows, we may even read about them?

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #5 by Dreamer
    • Dreamer
    • Dreamer's Avatar


  • Posts: 984

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 03 Dec 1976
  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    The Last Ride comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 8 months ago #6 by Valentine
    • Valentine
    • Valentine's Avatar


  • Posts: 3121

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 17 Aug 1966
  • A fine tale of the west. And a bit of Whateley added. It reminded a bit of www.mercedeslackey.com/books/dead.html Dead Reckoning by Mercedes Lackey.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 8 months ago #7 by Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov's Avatar


  • Posts: 27

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • "Dear readers, forgive me, for I am aroused to the game! To quote the great writer and orator Mark Twain. The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." Could it be that James Howard Hallowell and his wife managed to escape the clutches of death and are even now hale and hardy and living under assumed names in Las Vegas?
    6 years 8 months ago #8 by Anne
    • Anne
    • Anne's Avatar


  • Posts: 1411

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Valentine wrote: A fine tale of the west. And a bit of Whateley added. It reminded a bit of www.mercedeslackey.com/books/dead.html Dead Reckoning by Mercedes Lackey.

    You are evil showing a book by my favorite author when I can't afford to buy one....
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #9 by Yolandria
    • Yolandria
    • Yolandria's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 595

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Normally i don't read the stories first when i post the thread openers. So please forgive me. =) However there seems to be a problem since i can't edit my first post to make the correction. =(

    Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Yolandria. Reason: Spelling is hard. =(
    6 years 8 months ago #10 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Wait...are you thinking what I'm thinking here???

    SO, Mrs. Horton in this story is almost identical in both personality and mannerisms to the Mrs. Horton of Poe Cottage. In addition, she has the same skills and has the same 'name'. I've got several theories here:

    1. Mrs. Horton in the 21st Century is a avatar with a spirit which is Mrs. Horton in the 19th Century. Improbable, but not impossible.
    2. Mrs. Horton is older and more long-lived than we are led to believe. She's characterised like a old woman in Gen 1, so I'm assuming she's already aged (I just imagine her to be like Sherlock's landlady in the BBC series), and by Gen 2, she doesn't seem to have aged significantly. You think ten years after gen 1, she'd be frailer or at least suffering from some maladies. However, plenty of old people aren't frail. My grandmother is in her 80's (she was a little girl when the Japanese occupied Malaysia (yes, I'm half Malaysian) and hid under the bed from the soldiers when her mother told her to) and she's been doing bush-care for 20 years now. She only retired in 2006, and even now she's very healthy (apart from some problems with cataracts, and some mild joint arthritis). So, It's not enough to even suspect that she's 'immortal'. However, considering that the Mrs. Horton in this story is very, very simular to the Mrs. Horton we know, and considering that there are other mutants from this period who have been around as long or possible even longer (the Tanakas and the Mystic Six, for example), it is a distinct possibility that Mrs. Horton is actually a immortal being who has been alive since or before the 19th century.
    3. Of course, it is equally likely that the Mrs. Horton of today is just a descendant, who just is very simular to her ancestor. We don't know if genetics can pass down habits, but we do know that it is a possibility that IQ and problem-solving can be passed down genetically.
    4. Mrs. Horton is a time traveller. Very unlikely, but still a possibility. Who knows what the devisors of the steam era thought up when H.G. Wells published his stories!!
    5. Mrs. Horton is the incarnation of a god, like the New Olympians, and her ancestor was in the same situation as her.

    Or, it could just be a coincidence. We'll know when the authors grace us with that information. Until then: Fan theories will abound!!!

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago #11 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • Dreamer wrote:

    “Gold was discovered, that's what,” Mr Horton replied as he helped himself to a cup of his wife's tea. “I own the Yankee Eagle Mine and we were pulling copper, nothing like what's coming out of Bingham Canyon, but we're doing well enough for all this,” he declared with a gesture at the house around him. “Not too long ago I started getting turquoise, and not just chips, good sized stones. I didn't think anything of it at first, just figured it was good fortune. That all changed when we struck gold.”

    Wait a minute, first copper, then turquoise stones, and then gold. Why does this sound like something important?


    It could just be that turquoise is a copper mineral found in Elko County, along with more commercially-exploitable copper ores? It's not uncommon to find gold and silver mineralization along with copper and zinc minerals. In fact, some gold deposits are referred to as "Carlin-type", wherein the gold is found with arsenian pyrite and marcasite, and arsenopyrite.

    Dreamer wrote: Oh crud, zombies that have access to the memories and skills of the bodies, just how powerful a Necromancer can raise 400 zombies like these?


    If the possessing demon was implanted while the victim was still alive, retaining memories and skills may not be too far-fetched. Also, they didn't have be cooked up in just one batch.

    More trivia: There were 7 Horton families residing in Nevada in 1880, out of 20,011 in the USA. There were even fewer Jensens running around.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #12 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • null0trooper wrote: There were even fewer Jensens running around.


    Were you referring to THIS Jensen (my favourite Jensen)???


    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #13 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Beautiful dime novel E.E.

    I loved the narration style, the scope, the what got detailed and what got glossed over. You hit the pre-pulp style perfectly.

    CrazyMinh wrote: Wait...are you thinking what I'm thinking here???

    2. Mrs. Horton is older and more long-lived than we are led to believe. She's characterised like a old woman in Gen 1, so I'm assuming she's already aged (I just imagine her to be like Sherlock's landlady in the BBC series), and by Gen 2, she doesn't seem to have aged significantly.

    Circe is THE Circe, Seattle's Witchling is the older sister of elderly-appearing Woodwife, and you have trouble believing the resident druid priestess of Poe is over 100 years old? I forget some of the details of the Kayda stories (among others). Does Poe's Mrs. Horton have a piano in her room? ;)

    I was left wondering if James Hallowell was a bit of a gadgeteer though. There was some lines about him carrying a number of guns up his back, but that might have just been the writing style tripping me up.

    If this story is to believed, and the Goodkinds have been involved in necromancy before, perhaps Phase has a more difficult task ahead of him than he believes, in usurping his family's name back. We know the family hates mutants. But baseline mages aren't usually a problem for mutant haters...
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Katssun.
    6 years 8 months ago #14 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • ...you know, I just realised that sounded so wrong. So very wrong...

    it was also off topic.

    Forgive me, lest I turn into a chaos spa...OHGAWDNOIDIDNTSAYANYTHBLARGALLAFALAGEH!!!

    [A New Crazy Minh has been spotted!!!]

    Ok, my predecessor mentioned cha...those THINGS that shall not be mentioned. I'll be careful not to say chaos spawn...NO!!! NO!!! IDIDNTMEANOHFUKLAHARABLAGHLFLAGLEEERGHEEEEE!!!

    [A New New Crazy Minh has been spotted!!!]

    I shall refrain from saying anything about that one Warhammer 40k unit whose name shall not be mentioned BY ANYONE!!! LEST YOU TURN INTO ONE!!!

    Thank you, I'll be assuming the role of my two predecessors: Being Crazy.

    [Note: This is for comedic purposes, if anyone who doesn't quite get humour was worried. I have not been replaced twice, nor have two of my previous selves turned into tentacled monsters. If you thought anything about that was even remotely possible or real: please. Go see a psychologist. You're crazier than I am. But, if you do get the concept of humour, please just ignore this entire post. If you didn't get the reference, click on the link I've included in the phrase 'whose name shall not be mentioned'. Thank you for listening to this Crazy Minh Is Not A Chaos Spawn PSA. OHGAWDNOBLARGHLEERGADAGLEERGHA!!!

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #15 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • CrazyMinh wrote:

    null0trooper wrote: There were even fewer Jensens running around.


    Were you referring to THIS Jensen (my favourite Jensen)???


    These Jensens and these Jensens as well. Probably no relation.

    And there's likely no relation to the Arizona Calloways or the San Francisco Kitteridges.

    Unless there is.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by null0trooper.
    6 years 8 months ago #16 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Indeed, finding Turquoise with copper is a tell tale there might be gold in them there hills.

    As touching Mrs Horton. Well, we know from A Well Spring of Sorrows that Mrs Horton's furniture is quite expensive looking and that her apartment is full of photographs of her ever where such that at some point in her life she was 'Quite the World Traveler'. And out of all the weapons available to her in the Whateley universe, she owns a 12 gauge side by side which is rather antiquated when you stop and think about it.

    Of course, that could have nothing to do with anything. And that's all I have to say about that.

    :evil: :whistle:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #17 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Move along people, nothing to see here!

    Except the story.

    And Crazy Minh invoking Tzeenchian secrets.

    Ernest get the flamethrower.
    6 years 8 months ago #18 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • JG wrote: Move along people, nothing to see here!

    Except the story.

    And Crazy Minh invoking Tzeenchian secrets.

    Ernest get the flamethrower.

    Kekekekekekekekeke!!! Well, my life plan is about as complicated as a Tzeechian Cultists spproach to buying groceries (assasinate a local politician, blame it on the shopkeeper, start a civil war, kidnap the local priest and tell him what your breakfast recipes are, sell him into servitude, and use the money to both stop the war, elect yourself as the new mayor, become the shopkeeper and get you omelet ingredients), so thanks for the compliment!

    ...I’m joking. Chaos sucks. Tau for life and the greater good!!!

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago #19 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
  • Re the Mrs. Horton theories:
    They are interesting, except that this story gave no evidence at all to suggest that the Carlin Mrs. Horton had any magical powers. I mean, if she had, wouldn't she be drafted into the attack on the fort?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #20 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Sir Lee wrote: Re the Mrs. Horton theories:
    They are interesting, except that this story gave no evidence at all to suggest that the Carlin Mrs. Horton had any magical powers. I mean, if she had, wouldn't she be drafted into the attack on the fort?


    That is true.

    And while Mrs Carson told Kayda, "Bella Horton has been a practicing mage longer than you have been alive!" Kayda is only 17... And she didn't say when Mrs Horton started being a mage...

    :whistle:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #21 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Theory, the necromancer responsible was Nimbus, and Edgar didn't pay him in full.

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 8 months ago #22 by Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov's Avatar


  • Posts: 27

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • #2 Sounds very possible. My aunt was 106 when she passed away, up until the day she died she was active and able to get about and do things.
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #23 by Malady
    • Malady
    • Malady's Avatar


  • Posts: 3893

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Just went to the Wiki:

    Then, in the early 1800’s, Colonel Edgar Gabriel Goodkind turned one of the many upper-class American families into the wealthiest, most powerful family in America.


    ... 1870s is Late 1800s? ... Then again, naming your kids after a grandparent / yourself is not uncommon? ... How many Edgars are in the Goodkind Family Tree?

    And bolding doesn't work in quotes? Hmm.

    ----

    From Ayla 1, after that quote:

    the Walcutts have made similar claims


    Hmm... How many Necromancing (Old?) Rich White Men could there be, in the 1800s?

    And how did Colonel learn Necromancy in the first place? From his father, perhaps?

    Lol if the Goodkinds are doing Familial Body Snatching, and Bruce is actually the Colonel, with Nimbus knowing this, and trying to kill him or something.

    ----

    Chances that Helen Goodkind is under a super subtle mind whammy, like, better than Lorna's? ... Now Bruce is in control of everything, since Helen is crazy? Or something?
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 8 months ago #24 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Malady wrote: Just went to the Wiki:

    Then, in the early 1800’s, Colonel Edgar Gabriel Goodkind turned one of the many upper-class American families into the wealthiest, most powerful family in America.


    ... 1870s is Late 1800s? ... Then again, naming your kids after a grandparent / yourself is not uncommon? ... How many Edgars are in the Goodkind Family Tree?

    The Last Ride wrote: “Edgar Goodkind,” Jake declared, with the desperate look of a man wanting to spit in disgust and unable to due to circumstance. “Some New York tycoon who bought himself a commission in the War. The Devil Himself walking the Earth if you ask me.”


    The Colonel was already quite well to do before any gains he may or may not have made in Carlin. Of course, more is always better, right?

    :whistle:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #25 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
  • Something that nobody appear to have remarked on...

    This story gives some hints on what's the big Goodkind secret, the reason they dislike mutants so much (and that only gets told to adult family members who work in the business).

    - The foundations of the Goodkind humongous fortune may be related to necromancy.
    - A mutant played a significant part in frustrating a necromantic plot, possibly by them
    - This selfsame mutant became a part of an early team of paranormals that may have thwarted other moustache-twirling plots of Col. Goodkind

    That may have been enough to indispose the Goodkind family towards mutants. Honestly, how can a necromancer union-busting robber baron expect to achieve world domination with these pesky mutants interfering left and right? They are a pox, I say, a pox!

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #26 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Sir Lee wrote: That may have been enough to indispose the Goodkind family towards mutants. Honestly, how can a necromancer union-busting robber baron expect to achieve world domination with these pesky mutants interfering left and right? They are a pox, I say, a pox!

    Maybe not so much the upstanding ones...the risk of mutantkind also means he ended up with competition, rivalry, and harder targets where there was previously none.

    And nothing more frustrating than a baseline mage meeting a peer who doesn't even have to work at gathering essence.
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #27 by Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA's Avatar


  • Posts: 1766

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 24 Oct 1968
  • I'm still betting on a connection to The Bloodline, at least as an ongoing rivalry and/or a common origin.

    And how much do you want to bet that a future Black Jack story set between 1877 and 1880 will involve a group of six children who had been in a 'work house' in Ontario suddenly and mysteriously appearing in San Francisco?

    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Schol-R-LEA.
    6 years 8 months ago #28 by Dpragan
    • Dpragan
    • Dpragan's Avatar


  • Posts: 209

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Aside from Goodkind, another familiar name is Horton, and I would not be surprised if Two-Feathers might have children with the surname "Franks"

    for some oddball reason I kept thinking Jasmine might have also been a ancestor of a certain Hyperactive Kimba?

    In the end reality is only consensual! It means that Al Gore is causing "Global Warming" by his rhetoric alone! Fortunately, there are enough Global Warming "Deniers" still about to keep him from boiling the planet.

    =^+^=
    6 years 8 months ago #29 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • Malady wrote: ... 1870s is Late 1800s? ... Then again, naming your kids after a grandparent / yourself is not uncommon? ... How many Edgars are in the Goodkind Family Tree?


    Researching ancestry would be much simpler if it were uncommon. Some families liked to use the same limited pool of given names over and over. FWIW, I'm named after my father, a great uncle by the name he used instead the one he was given, and a great-grandfather who gave his son a different middle name.


    As far as the Goodkind fortunes go, I doubt that necromancy pays as well as privateering, the Triangle Trade, jumping claims, railroad stock, and arbitrage have in their times. Even that doesn't mean that there aren't time bombs in the family tree that might be uncovered if there were to be too much scrutiny driven by concerns over mutation.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #30 by Anne
    • Anne
    • Anne's Avatar


  • Posts: 1411

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • James for example. In my mother's family the name James was used so much that it really is hard to sort the generations.
    My dad's family? William seemed to be the name of choice, my dad, his dad, his grand dad... Then there were too many kids and one of the earlier ones got the name William. My ggfather had an odd name G.M..... at least for the family Not James, John, or William in any combination...
    6 years 8 months ago #31 by Dpragan
    • Dpragan
    • Dpragan's Avatar


  • Posts: 209

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Lester is a name used often in my family tree, and currently there are three Stevens in my extended family (My dad got Steven, my Brother-in-Law got Steve, and my Step-Nephew has Stevie.

    Of course, the Goodkind Angle might have been a red herring too. :) For all we know he might have been the White Sheep of the Family for the time period and suffered many rumors, due to being slightly pedantic.

    In the end reality is only consensual! It means that Al Gore is causing "Global Warming" by his rhetoric alone! Fortunately, there are enough Global Warming "Deniers" still about to keep him from boiling the planet.

    =^+^=
    6 years 8 months ago #32 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • Dpragan wrote: Of course, the Goodkind Angle might have been a red herring too. :) For all we know he might have been the White Sheep of the Family for the time period and suffered many rumors, due to being slightly pedantic.


    Always one step behind the one-armed necromancer.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #33 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • null0trooper wrote:

    Dpragan wrote: Of course, the Goodkind Angle might have been a red herring too. :) For all we know he might have been the White Sheep of the Family for the time period and suffered many rumors, due to being slightly pedantic.


    Always one step behind the one-armed necromancer.


    Hey!!! My old D&D character was Lawful Neutral, not Lawful Evil!!! Not all Necromancers are bad people you know!!!

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #34 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • CrazyMinh wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Dpragan wrote: Of course, the Goodkind Angle might have been a red herring too. :) For all we know he might have been the White Sheep of the Family for the time period and suffered many rumors, due to being slightly pedantic.


    Always one step behind the one-armed necromancer.


    Hey!!! My old D&D character was Lawful Neutral, not Lawful Evil!!! Not all Necromancers are bad people you know!!!


    True. But a suicidally-depressed Neutral Good (house rule on that) Planar Oracle(Dark Tapestry)/Oathbound Paladin can achieve great and terrible things while still remaining on the side of the angels.

    Reading between the lines here and there, it's far less common in the Whateley Universe for a human to indulge in congress amongst and with the dead without losing one's soul.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by null0trooper.
    6 years 8 months ago #35 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
  • Dpragan wrote: Aside from Goodkind, another familiar name is Horton, and I would not be surprised if Two-Feathers might have children with the surname "Franks"

    If by "children" you mean "descendants", it's quite possible. But remember, the Franks surname comes from Kayda's dad, who's Caucasian. But yes, Little Doe/Grey Skies being Two-Feathers granddaughter (or even great-granddaughter) is well within the realm of possibility.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #36 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Sir Lee wrote:

    Dpragan wrote: Aside from Goodkind, another familiar name is Horton, and I would not be surprised if Two-Feathers might have children with the surname "Franks"

    If by "children" you mean "descendants", it's quite possible. But remember, the Franks surname comes from Kayda's dad, who's Caucasian. But yes, Little Doe/Grey Skies being Two-Feathers granddaughter (or even great-granddaughter) is well within the realm of possibility.


    You have to remember though that there are a lot of NA shamans in the WU, and although this presents a tantalizing story op, there could easily be no connection, or the connection could simply be that they're 'in the same circles' so to speak. I.e. Simular areas of influence within the magical and spiritual world, and ect. There's no pertinent evidence as of yet, but it is a pretty good theory. But, remember: until there is sufficient, conclusive and pertinent evidence in enough numbers to prove the theory, we cannot assume anything. Although, knowing the Cabal, they're less than likely to give anything away other than 'maybe'. Which I suspect is why Nalley has gone and liked all the theories, as that way they don't give anything away through them liking 'specific' theories. Am I right, E.E???

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago #37 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • Sir Lee wrote:

    Dpragan wrote: Aside from Goodkind, another familiar name is Horton, and I would not be surprised if Two-Feathers might have children with the surname "Franks"

    If by "children" you mean "descendants", it's quite possible. But remember, the Franks surname comes from Kayda's dad, who's Caucasian. But yes, Little Doe/Grey Skies being Two-Feathers granddaughter (or even great-granddaughter) is well within the realm of possibility.


    Given the story's date, and BIA, Grandma Franks could still be a great-granddaughter of Two-Feathers with one sixteenth Native American ancestry. Her maiden name wouldn't be Franks, but that doesn't matter. Little Deer could be in the same generation as Grandpa Franks, or she could be Two-Feathers' daughter or grand-daughter.

    Crazy Minh wrote: You have to remember though that there are a lot of NA shamans in the WU, and although this presents a tantalizing story op, there could easily be no connection, or the connection could simply be that they're 'in the same circles' so to speak.


    For some of the numbers I've seen floated in forum posts, it's not "one in a million", but I'd estimate that the WU has fewer people capable of learning and using magic than SR's Sixth World by a factor of 1000. Of those, many may prefer Western magic for various reasons. I would not be surprised to read that there's only a hundred medicine people using traditional magic in all of North America.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #38 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • null0trooper wrote: ] SR's Sixth World


    YOU PLAY SHADOWRUN???!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 8 months ago #39 by Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov
    • Boris Knokitov's Avatar


  • Posts: 27

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Not necessarily, he might have had the gift of gab and gotten a large number of recruits together-enough to make up a company. If so, he would have been given a Captain's rank and the basic supplies needed to outfit his men as infantry. After that, he'd have to prove himself by having his unit achieve some success in battle. As a necromancer it would be very easy to "recruit" troops and to bring in more troops to replace those too damaged to continue. It would also save a lot of money on food and leave more for buying weapons and ammunition.
    6 years 8 months ago #40 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • null0trooper wrote:
    For some of the numbers I've seen floated in forum posts, it's not "one in a million", but I'd estimate that the WU has fewer people capable of learning and using magic than SR's Sixth World by a factor of 1000. Of those, many may prefer Western magic for various reasons. I would not be surprised to read that there's only a hundred medicine people using traditional magic in all of North America.


    You may not have meant this quite as literally as I am taking it, but at the risk of being pedantic this is something that needs to be clear. EVERYONE on planet Earth is CAPABLE of learning magic. There is no need of a genetic marker, or the MGC, or any other prerequisite to be able to learn. Sorting through all the drek by frauds and charlatans in the 'magic' section of the book store to glean a little 1 in 10,000 nugget of truth, being disciplined enough to learn the will power to hoard essence and light your well? THAT is the hard part.

    Look at it this way, getting the will power to not squander essence and light your well requires the level of discipline and focus to successfully complete Ranger or Seal training, knowing at any time you can just quit without consequence is tough on the mind. And keeping that level of mental focus is exhausting. But you can learn it if you want to bad enough.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #41 by Atkins249
    • Atkins249
    • Atkins249's Avatar


  • Posts: 1

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • I loved the style, very true to the dime novel experience. I also loved all the possible tie ins and other story lines this could open up. One small beef. The birdshead colt 38-40 that Jasmine carried never existed. Colt did not make anything resembling a birdshead revolver until 1877 when it introduced the double action lighting. The lighting was never chambered for 38-40 which was also introduced in 1877.
    Yes, I am a bit of a geek regarding portrayal of historic firearms.
    6 years 8 months ago #42 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Well, I thought I had my research down cold, ah well. We'll call it a product of a custom order. It was a Christmas present after all! :D

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #43 by joreymay
    • joreymay
    • joreymay's Avatar


  • Posts: 116

  • Gender: Female
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Malady wrote: ... 1870s is Late 1800s? ...


    Divide the century into thirds, and label them early, mid, and late. The late 1800s would start around 1867.
    6 years 8 months ago #44 by joreymay
    • joreymay
    • joreymay's Avatar


  • Posts: 116

  • Gender: Female
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Sir Lee wrote: Something that nobody appear to have remarked on...

    This story gives some hints on what's the big Goodkind secret, the reason they dislike mutants so much (and that only gets told to adult family members who work in the business).


    According to a couple of earlier stories, that animosity is much more recent - about two generations before Treavor/Ayla. Something to do with a particular attack on part of the family by a group of mutants.
    6 years 8 months ago #45 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Dreamer wrote: Off to the railroad station, booming silver trade making the line profitable, Virginia & Truckee Rail Road sounds interesting. The Empire, now that is a great name for a train.


    She's not a bad looker, either! :woohoo:


    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #46 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:
    For some of the numbers I've seen floated in forum posts, it's not "one in a million", but I'd estimate that the WU has fewer people capable of learning and using magic than SR's Sixth World by a factor of 1000. Of those, many may prefer Western magic for various reasons. I would not be surprised to read that there's only a hundred medicine people using traditional magic in all of North America.


    You may not have meant this quite as literally as I am taking it, but at the risk of being pedantic this is something that needs to be clear. EVERYONE on planet Earth is CAPABLE of learning magic. There is no need of a genetic marker, or the MGC, or any other prerequisite to be able to learn. Sorting through all the drek by frauds and charlatans in the 'magic' section of the book store to glean a little 1 in 10,000 nugget of truth, being disciplined enough to learn the will power to hoard essence and light your well? THAT is the hard part.


    The way I read null0's post was that there is really only a fraction of the populace 1) aware magic really is a thing 2) interested in learning it for good or ill and, 3) having the disposition, patience, and demeanor to put in the effort.

    So, basically the same thing you said.

    The meat of the post is the "western" vs. traditional discussion. To my understanding, "western" magic is very much in the vein of the Sidhe and the Five Fold Courts. The legacy passed down, the texts, oral traditions that survived The Sundering, and so on. There are variants, sure.

    But it's been made clear that "traditional," Shamanistic magic is somehow distinctly different. It hurts The Bastard and his kind. He can't twist it, he can't defend against it, it legitimately threatens him. So much so that he created Kigatilik.

    I don't think it has been fully explained how shamanistic magic has a different flavor. It doesn't really matter from my perspective, only that it has been established that it is incompatible with The Bastard's loopholes. But, at least what we have been shown, only The People are truly capable of it, not any descendants of the Five Fold Court.
    6 years 8 months ago #47 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
  • joreymay wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: Something that nobody appear to have remarked on...

    This story gives some hints on what's the big Goodkind secret, the reason they dislike mutants so much (and that only gets told to adult family members who work in the business).


    According to a couple of earlier stories, that animosity is much more recent - about two generations before Treavor/Ayla. Something to do with a particular attack on part of the family by a group of mutants.


    I think you are thinking of Helen Goodkind and her sister having been kidnapped when Helen was six years old, which did make her mutophobic. A small detail, however: this wasn't the event that turned the Goodkinds against mutants... because Helen was not a Goodkind at the time. She was born a Hilton, and she's a Goodkind by marriage.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #48 by Mister D
    • Mister D
    • Mister D's Avatar


  • Posts: 832

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Katssun wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:
    For some of the numbers I've seen floated in forum posts, it's not "one in a million", but I'd estimate that the WU has fewer people capable of learning and using magic than SR's Sixth World by a factor of 1000. Of those, many may prefer Western magic for various reasons. I would not be surprised to read that there's only a hundred medicine people using traditional magic in all of North America.


    You may not have meant this quite as literally as I am taking it, but at the risk of being pedantic this is something that needs to be clear. EVERYONE on planet Earth is CAPABLE of learning magic. There is no need of a genetic marker, or the MGC, or any other prerequisite to be able to learn. Sorting through all the drek by frauds and charlatans in the 'magic' section of the book store to glean a little 1 in 10,000 nugget of truth, being disciplined enough to learn the will power to hoard essence and light your well? THAT is the hard part.


    The way I read null0's post was that there is really only a fraction of the populace 1) aware magic really is a thing 2) interested in learning it for good or ill and, 3) having the disposition, patience, and demeanor to put in the effort.

    So, basically the same thing you said.

    The meat of the post is the "western" vs. traditional discussion. To my understanding, "western" magic is very much in the vein of the Sidhe and the Five Fold Courts. The legacy passed down, the texts, oral traditions that survived The Sundering, and so on. There are variants, sure.

    But it's been made clear that "traditional," Shamanistic magic is somehow distinctly different. It hurts The Bastard and his kind. He can't twist it, he can't defend against it, it legitimately threatens him. So much so that he created Kigatilik.

    I don't think it has been fully explained how shamanistic magic has a different flavor. It doesn't really matter from my perspective, only that it has been established that it is incompatible with The Bastard's loopholes. But, at least what we have been shown, only The People are truly capable of it, not any descendants of the Five Fold Court.


    Is this limitation of Western magic due to the bargain of Solomon?

    As most shamanic traditions come from the interaction with spirits, then they are more part of the natural world, so would not be bound by the bargain that Solomon made.

    Or am i reading it wrong?


    Measure Twice
    6 years 8 months ago #49 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • Katssun wrote: I don't think it has been fully explained how shamanistic magic has a different flavor. It doesn't really matter from my perspective, only that it has been established that it is incompatible with The Bastard's loopholes. But, at least what we have been shown, only The People are truly capable of it, not any descendants of the Five Fold Court.


    Has it been shown that shamanic magic is restricted to the First Nations peoples of North America?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #50 by Valentine
    • Valentine
    • Valentine's Avatar


  • Posts: 3121

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 17 Aug 1966
  • Katssun wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:
    For some of the numbers I've seen floated in forum posts, it's not "one in a million", but I'd estimate that the WU has fewer people capable of learning and using magic than SR's Sixth World by a factor of 1000. Of those, many may prefer Western magic for various reasons. I would not be surprised to read that there's only a hundred medicine people using traditional magic in all of North America.


    You may not have meant this quite as literally as I am taking it, but at the risk of being pedantic this is something that needs to be clear. EVERYONE on planet Earth is CAPABLE of learning magic. There is no need of a genetic marker, or the MGC, or any other prerequisite to be able to learn. Sorting through all the drek by frauds and charlatans in the 'magic' section of the book store to glean a little 1 in 10,000 nugget of truth, being disciplined enough to learn the will power to hoard essence and light your well? THAT is the hard part.


    The way I read null0's post was that there is really only a fraction of the populace 1) aware magic really is a thing 2) interested in learning it for good or ill and, 3) having the disposition, patience, and demeanor to put in the effort.

    So, basically the same thing you said.

    The meat of the post is the "western" vs. traditional discussion. To my understanding, "western" magic is very much in the vein of the Sidhe and the Five Fold Courts. The legacy passed down, the texts, oral traditions that survived The Sundering, and so on. There are variants, sure.

    But it's been made clear that "traditional," Shamanistic magic is somehow distinctly different. It hurts The Bastard and his kind. He can't twist it, he can't defend against it, it legitimately threatens him. So much so that he created Kigatilik.

    I don't think it has been fully explained how shamanistic magic has a different flavor. It doesn't really matter from my perspective, only that it has been established that it is incompatible with The Bastard's loopholes. But, at least what we have been shown, only The People are truly capable of it, not any descendants of the Five Fold Court.


    You would have to live in a cave to not know magic is real. The US President has an Adviser for Magical Affairs, Heather Richards. Presumably there is a British Ministry of Magic.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 8 months ago #51 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • null0trooper wrote:

    Katssun wrote: I don't think it has been fully explained how shamanistic magic has a different flavor. It doesn't really matter from my perspective, only that it has been established that it is incompatible with The Bastard's loopholes. But, at least what we have been shown, only The People are truly capable of it, not any descendants of the Five Fold Court.


    Has it been shown that shamanic magic is restricted to the First Nations peoples of North America?

    Good question. I don't think so. Diamondback and the rest of the Outcasts linked to the Aussie paranormal world would indicate no. Are they some third faction, since Diamond so easily roasted the crap out of Kigatilik? Probably. Is the divide more of a "natural" versus "cultivated" magic?

    Here's another wrinkle: Absinthe is the descendant of Sidhe and The People through a shaman ritual. Does her particular flavor of magic lean to the Sidhe side, or the shaman side? Can she directly hurt The Bastard like shamans can?
    6 years 8 months ago #52 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
  • An interesting wrinkle I stumbled upon...

    It seems that, at least in our universe, there were places where interracial marriages were legal in the late 19th century. A few Northern and Western states permanently ended their anti-miscegenation laws back then. And during Reconstruction, a few Southern states (Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, South Carolina and Alabama, to be specific) allowed such marriages for a while. Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Vermont, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Alaska, Hawaii, and the District of Columbia never had anti-miscegenation laws. But California did have such a law, which was only repealed in 1948. Wikipedia has even a map...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation...in_the_United_States

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #53 by Kettlekorn
    • Kettlekorn
    • Kettlekorn's Avatar


  • Posts: 1383

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • My interpretation is that this was ignorance on Jack's part rather than WU difference. He does specifically say that he "can't think of" anywhere it would be legal, rather than claiming that it is actually illegal nation-wide. He seems like the kind of guy who'd be focusing his efforts on crimes involving violence or great wrongs rather than scandal, so it wouldn't be surprising if his knowledge of the various states' marriage laws was incomplete and outdated.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 8 months ago #54 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Indeed. To Jack, a 'crime' requires a victim. As we will likely see, in the future...

    :evil:

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #55 by elrodw
    • elrodw
    • elrodw's Avatar


  • Posts: 3263

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • IMHO, there's so much to like in this story. First, I love how it's written in a style that makes me immediately think of Samuel Clemens. Second, there are so many hints and suggestions and tidbits about the future that it's causing rampant speculation - which I (and probably all canon authors) find quite amusing. Third - it's a rollicking good adventure with good guys, evil, villains, magic, not-so-pure actions by the good-guys - lots to love. Fourth - well, I can't say what I actually know that's fourth :lol:

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #56 by Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA's Avatar


  • Posts: 1766

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 24 Oct 1968
  • CrazyMinh wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Dpragan wrote: Of course, the Goodkind Angle might have been a red herring too. :) For all we know he might have been the White Sheep of the Family for the time period and suffered many rumors, due to being slightly pedantic.


    Always one step behind the one-armed necromancer.


    Hey!!! My old D&D character was Lawful Neutral, not Lawful Evil!!! Not all Necromancers are bad people you know!!!


    At the risk of setting off a flame war from mentioning the series, in Dominic Deegan the fact (that despite the number of Infernalist necromancers Deegan and co. frequently ended up fighting) in most of their world necromancy is a respected profession combining the services of morticians, funerary priests, and psychopomps (spirit guides who lead the souls of the dead to their final destination), and that the first necromancer basically elevated to the status of a neutral demigod, is a significant reveal of the 'vacation cruise' storyline.

    On a related note (brought up by the heavily Magi-tek orientation of Dominic Deegan), the fact that magic is understood and recognized in the WA universe raises the question of Niven's Law of the Paranormal: if magic is powerful, and useful, why isn't it more central to the society? I am not criticizing the series about this, but pondering how the CC (TINCC) mean to answer that issue, as I have seen hints that they do have an answer to it beyond just "it's marginalized by fear and/or religious belief" or similar handwaves. Perhaps Null0Trooper's comparison to the Sixth World - even aside from the Sundering, which disrupted and drained off Essence world-wide (a la The Magic Goes Away), there seems to have been some reason why Essence and magical knowledge were further suppressed around the time of the fall of the Western Roman Empire - something to do with the mysterious 'Foreigner', probably.

    @CrazyMinh: I am assuming that the ten 'stuck out tongue' emojis are meant to indicate qualitysarcasm, rather than surprise, as... well, I am pretty sure you've read the Metro and Rorsmand stories, right? Just making sure, as that's hard to tell in a text-based medium sometimes...

    (Thank you Mrs. Campos for that 'four exclamation points stands for quality' joke - uh oh, is CRFH a controversial series, too? I guess it probably is, because Internet, but I haven't followed it in almost ten years so I have no idea what's going on with that. Come to think of it, I think she may have cribbed that joke from Dave Barry or Cecil Adams or someone like that, but I can't be bothered to check.)

    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Schol-R-LEA.
    6 years 8 months ago #57 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970
  • Schol-R-LEA wrote: On a related note (brought up by the heavily Magi-tek orientation of Dominic Deegan), the fact that magic is understood and recognized in the WA universe raises the question of Niven's Law of the Paranormal: if magic is powerful, and useful, why isn't it more central to the society?

    E. E. Nalley wrote: Look at it this way, getting the will power to not squander essence and light your well requires the level of discipline and focus to successfully complete Ranger or Seal training, knowing at any time you can just quit without consequence is tough on the mind. And keeping that level of mental focus is exhausting. But you can learn it if you want to bad enough.


    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 8 months ago #58 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964
  • E. E. Nalley wrote: But you can learn it if you want to bad enough.


    Aye, the rub is that in wanting something badly, that's likely the way one will get it.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #59 by joreymay
    • joreymay
    • joreymay's Avatar


  • Posts: 116

  • Gender: Female
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Schol-R-LEA wrote: On a related note (brought up by the heavily Magi-tek orientation of Dominic Deegan), the fact that magic is understood and recognized in the WA universe raises the question of Niven's Law of the Paranormal: if magic is powerful, and useful, why isn't it more central to the society?


    Psi is understood and recognized - and useful - to the same degree. So are various "powers". Since the Industrial Revolution and the evolution beyond, technology has increasingly been able to do the useful things that were once the exclusive province of magic et al, and can be operated by the vast majority of people with no special powers and minimal training. Magic, Psi, etc. are powerful and useful for certain specialized tasks and circumstances, but mostly on the periphery of society. For the actual day to day functioning of society, mundane technology is more useful and far more consistently reliable than those esoterica.
    6 years 8 months ago #60 by Kettlekorn
    • Kettlekorn
    • Kettlekorn's Avatar


  • Posts: 1383

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • The core issue is power supply. Technology can be powered easily by burning fuels, harnessing environmental flows, exploiting chemical or nuclear reactions, etc. Post-Sundering Magic, on the other hand, is has very few environmental energy flows to draw from, and it usually requires filtering those flows through a highly trained human. Those factors severely restrict its ability to scale up.

    If that doesn't seem like enough to explain it, it's because you're forgetting about the positive feedback loop that powered technology has. Once you have an easy way to power machines, you can make machines that make other machines, and machines that get more fuel for the machines, and so on, and it can all keep running in parallel as you go off to design even more machines.

    Another factor to consider is the danger inherent in hoarding a scarce resource like Essence. Competition puts a cap on how much of it any one person or group can accumulate before everybody else destroys them in their attempts to take a slice for themselves. And people will notice, because your efforts to collect essence don't exist in a vacuum. Fey caused swaths of ecological destruction with some of her larger spells, for example. If you start building a bunch of magical infrastructure to harvest essence from the environment, you're going to attract the attention of people and things you may not be equipped to deal with.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 8 months ago #61 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Kettlekorn wrote: Another factor to consider is the danger inherent in hoarding a scarce resource like Essence. Competition puts a cap on how much of it any one person or group can accumulate before everybody else destroys them in their attempts to take a slice for themselves. And people will notice, because your efforts to collect essence don't exist in a vacuum. Fey caused swaths of ecological destruction with some of her larger spells, for example. If you start building a bunch of magical infrastructure to harvest essence from the environment, you're going to attract the attention of people and things you may not be equipped to deal with.

    Agreed, just look at the decades of squabbling between Marc-Thierry de Maugris- St. Denis and Mara Harrow, and Akelarre. Especially with the short-cuts the latter was taking with miasma.
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #62 by Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA
    • Schol-R-LEA's Avatar


  • Posts: 1766

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 24 Oct 1968
  • I like how this conversation has gone, it does show that there are several possible answers on the point (any and all of while might apply). As I said, I expect that the Canon Cabal have thought this through, and might have still more surprises on the topic.

    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Schol-R-LEA.
    6 years 8 months ago #63 by Dreamer
    • Dreamer
    • Dreamer's Avatar


  • Posts: 984

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: 03 Dec 1976
  • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    Dreamer wrote: Off to the railroad station, booming silver trade making the line profitable, Virginia & Truckee Rail Road sounds interesting. The Empire, now that is a great name for a train.


    She's not a bad looker, either! :woohoo:

    Now that is an awesome looking old train, can see why she was kept in a museum.

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 8 months ago #64 by Dpragan
    • Dpragan
    • Dpragan's Avatar


  • Posts: 209

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Colonel Edgar Goodkind: Hunter of Necromancers...has a ring to it, and maybe a ancestor Ayla/Trevor could be proud of?

    In the end reality is only consensual! It means that Al Gore is causing "Global Warming" by his rhetoric alone! Fortunately, there are enough Global Warming "Deniers" still about to keep him from boiling the planet.

    =^+^=
    6 years 8 months ago #65 by Hardric
    • Hardric
    • Hardric's Avatar


  • Posts: 207

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • So, a western, uh. Well, let's go then...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    Happy to have saved the carbonara for that day. The surprise zombies made it even better. Also, yay for keeping ahead of backlog, if only in the nick of time.
    Moderators: WhateleyAdminKristin DarkenE. E. NalleyelrodwNagrijMageOhkiAstrodragonNeoMagusWarrenMorpheusWasamonsleethrOtherEricBek D CorbinMaLAguASouffle GirlPhoenix SpiritusStarwolfDanZillaKatie_LynMaggie FinsonDrBenderJGBladedancerRenae_Whateley
    Powered by Kunena Forum