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Question Flowers of the Sun
- Dreamer
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Topic Author
Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

- Malady
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I thought it'd be Hikaru-related, but not really! Title was misleading, but cool, in that way!
That opening epigraph is soo relevant!
And such a great look at AI development and stuff!
That end info! So nice information!
- Mister D
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The comparisons/contrasts between other science-fiction authors' approaches to AI development is great.
Chewy, chewy, chewy.

Lots to sink my teeth into, and mull over.

Thank you.
Measure Twice
- Kettlekorn
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@MageOhki: There are two instances of Kurenai being referred to as SADC-MPA-003 instead of 103.
- DanZilla
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Kettlekorn wrote: @MageOhki: There are two instances of Kurenai being referred to as SADC-MPA-003 instead of 103.
Thanks, I got those fixed.
- mhalpern
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Yeah I wonder what will happen Parents day when Angela brings Daisy and comes across Wondercute v2...Kettlekorn wrote: Wow. A whole batch of AIs based on Razorback. That is... definitely an idea of some sort.
@MageOhki: There are two instances of Kurenai being referred to as SADC-MPA-003 instead of 103.
Interesting that the AI for the John F Kennedy is named Fordie, instead of having that be the AI for CVN-78, the Gerald R Ford...
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Dreamer
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Topic Author
Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.
Flowers of the Sun comments
One of The Voice and one for Princess Kako, this isn't the origin story of Kurenai, is it. Because it says it is May 26th, 2017 at the beginning of the story, far later than any of the other Gen 2 stories are set. Hoping it meant 2015 and is a typo. Trying to sell the future of AIs by having two princesses of Japan with them, wonder how well that will work. Certified in several areas to have a military grade personal AI, interesting.
These two obviously aren't in on the big secret of the Voice. Ichigo a straight exemplar and working on military grade AI, impressive.“I threw one hell of a shit show already.” Jiro’s voice was tired. “Only not only to have Temple, Palace, but two americajin AI show up, and go ‘Certification immaterial, reasons and exemption certification to be filed with the correct agency.”
Boy, after the Palm AI they have gotten serious about making sure AI's are mentally and emotionally stable.However, while good at programming, his primary skills lie in psychology, child and personality development, and profiling. He was responsible to be sure his sister’s creations didn’t go insane. They were his nieces and nephews, in spirit, if nothing else!
Of boy, no wonder Kurenai has such a personality. Ichigo afraid Hikaru is going to abuse Kurenai, hehehe, boy things turned out differently than he expected. Bwahaha, what Jiro thinks Hikaru is like, priceless.“The AI won’t grow, the AI might go insane, it’s cruel to the AIPA, it’s cruel to the human…” Jiro rattled off what the younger mutant was going to say. “I get the distinct impression all that doesn’t matter. Though I was told that the reason why Temple wants to poke over, is tailor the seedling and her personality matrix for the Voice. To minimize that.”
Ow, my mental ears, Tower needs to learn to use an inside voice. And Temple appears as an old man with a cane, interesting. Blaming his mother for the booming voice, heh. Miss Stingray developed them, wonder how many AIs exist in Gen 2 now.
Interesting way for them to look at it.And in a way, they wouldn’t be wrong, to do so, but in a way, they would be. Such is the transient life.” The old man shrugged. “We see it this way to please ourselves, and to understand the cycle of organic life, I think.”
“But yet, it’s all compiling code, and no real ‘relation’ to reality.” Tower responded. “So why do we?”
“What child does not want to be like his or her parent?” Temple responded, a slight smile.
Now we know Kurenai's unit name before she got an actual name. Nice to know that Temple realizes the risk to Hikaru and Princess Kako and others is too great within these AIs.“Mmm. Let me say this. More is going on than you are allowed to know, as Jack and Orca would prefer. However, allow me this. Unit SADC-MPA-003 will have a challenging task in front of her. Analysis indicates that she will have to help heal, as much as guard.” His tapping of the cane, was in time with his words.
Humans are confusing, heh. I like Temple-san, interesting fellow.“Some don’t see us as servants, for both good and ill logic. Some do, of course, and some see us as no more than just pretty code. But, taking your implication, servants work for the betterment of their ah… ‘masters’, just like children work to grow for their parents, to show off their effort and hard work, shall we say?” The old seeming man tapped his cane once. “But we accepted what we are, and our duties. We chose. And I would not choose differently.”
All these AI shadow seeds which will have personal humans to help them learn and grow. Humans need struggle, ain't that the truth, without it we get bored and melancholy.
Interesting perspective.“You all do not understand the logic behind that rule. This is understandable. It wasn’t given to us by the Humans. It wasn’t something that was insisted on. We came to that conclusion, as a group, the First of us, because, as you will learn… Humans aren’t logical. They’re rarely self-motivated. Growth is often because of struggle. I once heard a parent say this, something so obvious to me, I didn’t understand why humans needed it. “Once burned, twice shy.”” Smiling a bit he nodded. “When you understand that, you will be truly a flower or a shadow of the Palace’s Dojo.”
Kunoichi, decked in red and gold, interesting look for Kurenai. Other AIs like him and Tower include Belvedere, Dora, and Orca, wonder how they got their names.
Okay, forced to do what he wants, including imitating a Japanese tea ceremony, seems a little too much power over young AIs to me.He could just imagine what her programming was telling her. ‘Human thing, we don’t eat…’ and on and on. But the shackles that she had on her, like every new AI, symbolized by her collar and steel appearing bracelets, forced her to do what he wanted.
Oh, he is playing the role of the wise elder to her, heh.In a tone that was bemused. “First, to teach you that sometimes you will not get the data you wish for. Second… you will learn. We have reasons to act human. We are their children. Mayhaps not of the body… but we are.”
Yikes! Hikaru was in that bad of shape before Kurenai, she has a long way to go for recovery.“Known mental traumas: Burnouts with brain damage, high tempo of extreme combat operations, culminating in the near destruction of her command, loss of family members due to accident. Prediction: A high degree of mental instability and depression. High likelihood of withdrawal from human contact, high likelihood of personality matrix damage. Possibility of antisocial personality disorder, possibility of lack of empathy. High possibility of what knowledge base would define as external suicidal tendencies. Certainty of inappropriate escalation of confrontations. No external connections, nor emotional connotations and logical reasons to live. ” The female AI finished, waiting.
Nice to see how Kurenai was before her and Hikaru met, sure shows how much she has grown as well.“You will understand exactly why you were assigned to have her as your human, and it’s far more than just keeping her physically alive.”
Hehehe, love seeing Hikaru and her cousin Kako tease and snark at each other. VR to meet with Temple-san and Kurenai, interesting.
*holding sides from laughing too hard* Hikaru seeing an AI smile, must have been a first for her.Kako beamed. “I like Temple-san. He’s got a great sense of humor.”
“... an AI troll. So, we’ll meet him under a bridge.” Hikaru dryly commented.
Love how Hikaru isn't even fazed by Temple-san challenge or so it seems. Young, uniformed, and a risk so collars and cuffs, *sigh*Hikaru shrugged slightly. “Either you are doing it for your own reasons, or so we can relate to you. Pure data… well.” Hikaru smiled slightly, though it didn’t reach her eyes. “I’m sure some of the things humans perceive baffle you as much as pure data would baffle us.”
Temple didn’t blink, but he pondered that deeply, for what would be a split second to a human, but an eternity to an AI. “Perhaps… or perhaps for us to relate to humans?” He challenged the Voice.
And that was the right thing to say, first step in their relationship which we get to see. Given a name by Hikaru, something to define herself so she can be what she wants to be, yet Kurenai doesn't understand. How long did it take for her snarky personality to develop, I wonder.Hikaru’s eyes tightened slightly, then smoothed out. “That is a designation, an identification number. Not a name. And I don’t have, need or want... servants. Not when they wear chains. I could use an assistant.”
And now I know why Hikaru is one of my favorite characters, seeing any sapient being no matter their origin or form as a person.“No, it’s not as I say… it is as you are meant to be.” Hikaru shrugged slightly. “You are meant to be, not exist. Tools exist. People are. With the ability to make their own choices and decisions. Or did I misunderstand what AI truly are?” She had turned to Temple, who was waiting with Kako and the newly named Rissei, next to Kako.
“You did not.” Temple-san did not carefully convey what he wanted to so deeply say, but was aware that he couldn’t. Not yet. She wasn’t ready to hear it.
Interesting name for an apartment building. Hikaru hasn't personalized her apartment, ouch, signs of the mental trauma and probably not wanting to get attached to anything in fear of losing it.July 2nd, Late Afternoon, Hikaru’s apartment, Mori Kanda1, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, Japan
Kanda-san, for some reason I heard her with a motherly voice in my mind. Treating her apartment as a hotel, yikes.“Understood, little Cortana. The Voice’s apartment is yours. Do try to help her to make it less of a magazine layout, please. It is meant to be a home.” Kanda-san, Mori Kanda’s AI commented wryly. “Transfering maintenance and cleaning bots to your control… now.”
Oh boy, she already suspects what we the readers know. And Hikaru treating herself like a tool, now that hurts to read.Hikaru was damaged. Repeatedly. Not just by the burnouts, not just by her previous life, but even by her spirit. Not intentionally, she suspected, but by what Temple-san would go caring too much. Her information showed it was possible for spirits to suppress memories in their hosts, and based on her programs, she suspected that Amaterasu had done so, out of misplaced kindness.
And now we see how she begins to become the snarky AI we know and love, someone had to kick Hikaru in the rear and get her to live again.Kurenai grinned. If it was easy, she’d not be needed, ‘casue she was going to be very good at her purpose.
Someone has a twisted sense of humor to make a personality imprint like that for AIs. And they look like velociraptor-looking constructs appearing to made of hard-light, cool. The only thing funnier than this group of AI is if someone created AIs with the 3 Stooges at templates.“We who are about to derp, salute you,” intoned from twenty identical voices with identical australian accents.
Thomas Byrnes rolled his eyes and wondered for the hundredth time why the particular personality imprint of Stalker Creche 01 was used. The AI were anything but organized except when messing with people, highly sarcastic and even without the spark of sentience, their idle-state behavior tended to run somewhere between stand-up comedian and the cast of “Jackass.”
Okay, now I pity the programmers who have to deal with 20 of these guys. Poor Thomas Byrnes.“I’ve given up on trying to figure out what you stupid Pinkie Bipeds are about.” 101 was probably the most overtly sarcastic of the batch. The dismissive statement was invariably used whenever the AI couldn’t compute a concept. The Stalkers had neither context, nor experience to parse the illogic of human beings.
Interesting experiment.“We’re to be paired with humans. We are the two that will be tested on the theory that AI will bond more quickly and tighter to Human children than adults due to psychology differences.”
Cute, the little girl who gets her is going to love Daisy. Aaron Colder, feel I've heard that name before, at least 101 gets to remain mostly the same. So fully awaken as an AI or be dispersed is what it sounds like the fate for AIs is, eep. Wait a minute, Adam, as in Razorback's little brother? These AIs were based on Razorback, I should have known. And sounds like Angela is his little sister or related to Adam somehow. And she likes Wondercute, run for the hills before you're up to your armpits in pink velociraptors!As the velociraptor devoured the file messily, it… no, she seemed to shrink down drastically, going from a black-mottled, spined monstrosity to a feminine, more cartoony neon-pink Raptor with tiny and adorable bone spurs rather than long spines, with neon green striping and a massive pink bow behind her head and a girly pink dress on her body. Her voice shifted to a higher, feminine register but still retained the Aussie accent.
All these questions for Kurenai to determine if she lives or dies, talk about pressure.
*sniffs* How quickly they grow.Kurenai smiled slightly. “By not making her decisions for her. By giving her the best advice I can. By watching over her while she isn’t looking.” Tilting her head slightly, and grinning impishly… “By making her laugh. By not being training wheels, to life.” She paused, and became more serious. “By doing what she needs and wants me to do. Not doing what she doesn’t need, or want.”
Already she is better than some humans, not targetting others for fun. Ah, so Temple-san does have a sheathed sword, cool. No more chocker and bracelets for Kurenai, yay!Then is it harm? Doctors perform surgery, inflict pain in resetting bones. Perhaps I should have said, unnecessary harm.”
Temple enjoys the Harry Potter novels, knew I liked him.
I understand the reasons why, especially after Palm AI made everyone scared of AIs for so long, but still sucks a life has to be ended for the safety of everyone.It seemed that there were still failures in brining AI’s to life. Their humans either weren’t compatible, or the AI’s themselves were not. And that meant the AI died. It was safer that way. For everyone. But still saddening, in a way, since potential was being aborted before it could truly take flight.
Sounds great for AIs, until the next paragraph, the creche burn began to burn, all the AIs going red and being deleted, what went wrong? Spike "Blue" and unawakened and Daisy "Green" and awakened, all the others responding badly to the adults they were assigned to, yikes.Between August 30th and November 24th, 2016 Indeterminate location in Virtual Space.
Belvedere, Dora, Orca and Temple watched with morbid fascination as the first Sidewinder AI went green within a week of activation, passing the needed tests and safety interlocks to be considered a full, legal AI. The incredible rapidity of the awakening and passing of the first Sidewinder AI housed in Quantum computing shells pointed to a potential sea change in AI tech.
Glad Daisy passed and gets to stay with Angela.Daisy had been hostile from start to finish, having objected vehemently (and violently) to having the extended awareness portion of herself trapped in a simulspace pocket while Angela cried “But she’s green Mama, why won’t she come back?”
The Installations saw Daisy’s reaction to THAT and after a rapid simulation and test period, let the abominably cute raptor AI go. She still passed. The Sidewinder protocols were not faulty.
Arrggh, you morons! No wonder the AIs went red, a human would go crazy when treated like nothing but a machine too.Upon further analysis of the humans paired with the AI, and an analysis of the personality matrix the Stalkers were based off the answer became clear. Most humans didn’t register a computer, a tool as sentient, fully. They wanted a faster, more aware iPad, and treated the stalkers as such.
I hope we see more of Angela and Daisy in the future.Daisy had been immediately adopted as the four-year-old child’s best friend, and had to endure hours upon hours of contradictory input and good-natured wheedling of a little girl who wanted a partner in mischief and shenanigans. Angela had thought of Daisy as her best friend from almost the first second. Daisy tried to attack Orca’s Base code for blocking her, making Angela cry, and “being a dick.”
So that is why Spike hasn't been shown with Adam at Whateley yet. Interesting to see how he grows over time.Adam Carlyle had not subjected Spike to such adversity. It was rapidly determined that the boy was so very independent and non-demanding on the resources of the nascent AI that it had no major dilemmas, conflicts or questions around which to form a core of a real personality.
It was estimated that Spike could remain little more than an impressive Qubit-driven VIPA for years, and gain thousands of hours of human interaction and experience before he might gain true sentience.
It was deemed worth it to see how this organically slow process would unfold. Spike was not flagged for termination.
So those are who some of the other mentioned AIs are, interesting. Over 120 AIs released to the 'wild' worldwide, darn, thought it would be at least 300. That much failure for the AIs, either personality conflict or human inability to accept sentience, so sad.November 24th, DOPS meeting Room, Imperial Palace, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo-chu, Japan.
“For the Record, represented at this meeting is Stingray Cecilia-sensei, owner and
chief programmer of Stingray Advanced Concepts, Handa Jiro-sensei, CEO and head of creche development, Temple-san, Imperial AI, to record, Ito Ai-sensei, head of Nintendo Creche Development, Princess Akishino, representing DOPS, Belvedere-dono, senior AI and representing AI society, and finally Dora-dono, representing the US DARPA and Military Creche. This meeting will be treated as if we are all sharing Sake.” The voice from the speakers finished, as three hard light projections looked at the gathered humans.
From the way everyone is talking, there are many ways for AIs to go wrong, including being treated as nothing but tools.
Pikachu from Nintendo, an AI called Pikachu from Nintendo, priceless.He paused. “I would like to point out that the three most obvious successes, Pikachu from Nintendo, Daisy from Sidewinder, and Kurenai from our own labs, all of which thresholded within a week, were with minors, and in the case of the two civilian AIPA, under 10. Myoujin Hikaru was very open minded and very passionate about AI being people, and all of the successes I know about, had similar mindsets, and were used to the idea of digital sentience. While Stingray will still honor contract, we do recommend that training classes, tighter psychological screening and of course, a better attempt to match personalities be done. Otherwise, creches will be burnt still, and I’m too much of a friend to Tower, and Temple here to recommend they see this repeatedly.”
Nice point Kako makes, even civilian AI can be a threat if they go bad.
Okay, never make Angela cry or Daisy might do something bad to your bank account or worse. Aww, not seeing Pokemon AI as nothing more than toys, that sucks.Belvedere shook his head. “No, your Highness, the assessment is correct. After thorough log reviews, the most dramatic results came from the youngest children, who immediately reacted to their AI as though they had been introduced to their new lifelong best friend. The Stalker AI personality matrix projection for loyalty has been borne out, as Daisy tried to delete Orca for making the child she was assigned to cry. Sidewinder is looking at restricting future iterations of the Stalker Systems to being companions and protectors of young children.”
Wanting more AI out there to defend against rogue AI and devisor AI to protect systems, among other things, I understand why Kako is wary of mass release though.
From the way Dora responds it sounds like the U.S.A. is trying to play fast and loose with the limits set down by a treaty involving the development of AI, at least to me.Kako rolled her eyes. “They are dragging their feet on certification of creches, per treaty, not helped by the issues involved in the treaties, which reminds me, How many lawyers have contacted you and your fellows in the United states?”
Dora groaned. “I’m pretty sure all of them. But, we’re not here to discuss issues with laws, we’re here to discuss how to handle personal AI, and they are working on Creches.”
Rissei and Kurenai brought in to help out a young AI, 309, find her human. Hope they succeed.November 25th, TOWER secure Creche Space, Stingray Sector, Tokyo Cyberspace.
Hehe, love these two. Wonder who 309 will end up with and what her name will be.“Interesting. The issue I see here, is providing the hardware. You are expensive to house, you both know.”
“Worth it.” “Of course, and we’re deserving of it!” The two virtual women shot back to Tower’s amusement, but this was serious.
Temple-san has a great sense of humor, hehe.As he turned away to handle other duties, a nearly irresistible urge struck him. But no, he wouldn’t put a bunny ear headband on the young AI… yet.
Interesting details about Mori Kanda, such details thought up for it it seems so real to me. Okay, I have to quote this last part, a lot of interesting details which I wish to reference in the future and interesting details about the AIs.
Whoa, Dora was made by Whisper, now that is a major detail and clue as to Whisper's future.Known/major AI’s
Belvedere: Whateley Installation/Military Class AI. Oldest known official AI. Looks like the character “Mr. Belvedere” from the 80’s, but maintains the appearance of a shackled AI or complex VI in order to keep the paranoia level down. Acts as a student tutor and research assistant for struggling students without exemplar memory and does not interfere with any portion of the day-to-day “legitimate” operation of the academy. Instead he simply helps where and whom he can when asked. Belvedere has a strong distaste for violent pursuit but will operate Whateley automated defenses if no human control is available. Belvedere finds children more engaging than adults, given their natural curiosity, and the fact that there’s always one to help with an interesting problem. Belvedere’s installation uses the most primitive tech, but upgrades, add-ons and continual repairs have kept him operating at peak. Belvedere’s human liaison is Cyberkitty. Belvedere has no access to military systems or installations, nor does he want it. Considered by all AI's the senior AI, and accorded that position. When regional 'elder' AI's meet in cyberspace, he chairs the discussion.
Code: WHA-IN-0000 (Special Code, for regulation of Belvedere’s status as the first ‘true’ AI)
Dora: Research Installation Class AI(DARPA), looks and acts like a bubbly cheerleader, but is one of the oldest AI’s in the US, with Minerva her sister AI the unofficial leader of US AI society. Programmed by Whisper.
Code: DARPA-MIN-0101
Fordie: CVN-79’s AI. First mobile Installation Class AI.
Code: DARPA-MIN-0901
Jack: JFK SWS Installation AI, one of the newest AI
Code: DAPRA-MIN-0902
Minerva: Pentagon Installation AI. See Dora
Code: DARPA-MIN-0102
Orca: Dam Neck Installation AI, usually runs the Sims. Third Military Installation AI
Code: DARPA-MIN-0301
SADC-MPA-0102: Rissei before naming.
SADC-MPA-0103: Kurenai before naming.
SADC-MPA-0309: Future AI cast member.
Stalker: Adam Caryle’s AI
Code: SWI-CPA-0101
Temple: DOPS/Imperial Family Installation/Military Class AI. 2nd AI from Stingray ADC, Looks like a wizened old martial arts master. Runs and keeps an eye on all Japanese AI, unofficial leader of the Japanese AI Society.
Code: SADC-MIN -011
Tower: Stingray ADC Installation/Military class AI. 1st AI from Stingray ADC, runs the Creche.
Code: SADC-MIN-001
WHA-CPA-xxe05: Current Cast member, future AI designation
Note: Codes are the AI equivalent of a Social Security Number.
First group (SADC, DBI) is who made them. Example: SWI is Sidewinder Industries
Second group is what they are. M for Military, C for Civilian, PA for Personal Assistant, HI for House Installation, IN for major installation.
Number code is broken down into two blocks First two (or more) numbers is generation/batch and Second two numbers is ‘which one’ from the batch. Most batches are less than 6, Cortana's and their civilian counterparts are no more than 12-18 at most. Generally a batch is 3-6 months per creche. E is an code referring to ‘expanded or evolved’.
This was a great story from start to finish, I loved reading Kurenai's origin story, learning so much about the state of AI in the Whateley Academy universe as of Gen 2, and seeing how Kurenai developed into the snarky AI we know and love. Can't wait to check back in again in future stories with any of these individuals. Would especially love to see more of Angela and Daisy, seem so cute together.
Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

- Schol-R-LEA
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Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- Kettlekorn
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Angela is the daughter of Sidewinder's founder, who is sponsoring Adam at Whateley and knows him well enough to take interest in his love life and send the picture of him and Dawn to "literally everyone." Definitely close family friends, and possibly actual extended family of some sort.Dreamer wrote: And sounds like Angela is his little sister or related to Adam somehow.
- Katssun
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Kurenai is very likely manipulating Hikaru. Same as Kako does. For her own good, mind you. For their mutual good.
I do love the concept that children are more accepting of AI, more willing to accept them as "people." Like imaginary friends, only real!
It also makes me wonder if there has been an AI able to trick the elders into passing them...is there already an insane one out there?
- MageOhki
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mhalpern wrote:
Yeah I wonder what will happen Parents day when Angela brings Daisy and comes across Wondercute v2...Kettlekorn wrote: Wow. A whole batch of AIs based on Razorback. That is... definitely an idea of some sort.
@MageOhki: There are two instances of Kurenai being referred to as SADC-MPA-003 instead of 103.
Interesting that the AI for the John F Kennedy is named Fordie, instead of having that be the AI for CVN-78, the Gerald R Ford...
Will fix. Not sure what the hades happened.
First batch of personal scale AI. Lot different paradigm.Dreamer wrote: SPOILER ALERT
Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.
Flowers of the Sun comments
Interesting quotes and thoughts at the start. Stingray Advanced Concepts and Development Offices in Tokyo, awesome name. That poor guy, called Mackie by Jiro because his sister likes Bubblegum Crisis. Developing military-grade AI, I wouldn't want to screw that up either, too many science fiction stories about that going wrong. Ichigo, nice to know his real name. Observe AI seedlings, wonder why.
Whoops. Supposed to be 2016One of The Voice and one for Princess Kako, this isn't the origin story of Kurenai, is it. Because it says it is May 26th, 2017 at the beginning of the story, far later than any of the other Gen 2 stories are set. Hoping it meant 2015 and is a typo. Trying to sell the future of AIs by having two princesses of Japan with them, wonder how well that will work. Certified in several areas to have a military grade personal AI, interesting.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Though to be even more fair, remember, movies, books and series like 2001, Dr. Who, Terminator, RAH's works, et al, unless said otherwise, exist in the WU, therefore people have a clue on how bad it can go. Palm just made it obvious (and Palm is upload, totally different story.)These two obviously aren't in on the big secret of the Voice. Ichigo a straight exemplar and working on military grade AI, impressive.“I threw one hell of a shit show already.” Jiro’s voice was tired. “Only not only to have Temple, Palace, but two americajin AI show up, and go ‘Certification immaterial, reasons and exemption certification to be filed with the correct agency.”
Boy, after the Palm AI they have gotten serious about making sure AI's are mentally and emotionally stable.However, while good at programming, his primary skills lie in psychology, child and personality development, and profiling. He was responsible to be sure his sister’s creations didn’t go insane. They were his nieces and nephews, in spirit, if nothing else!
To be fair, Jiro and Ichigo don't think Hikaru would be cruel The thing is, they don't know if she'd be capable of seeing the AI for what it is. That's what a lot of the screening is for (and note below how successful it is.Of boy, no wonder Kurenai has such a personality. Ichigo afraid Hikaru is going to abuse Kurenai, hehehe, boy things turned out differently than he expected. Bwahaha, what Jiro thinks Hikaru is like, priceless.“The AI won’t grow, the AI might go insane, it’s cruel to the AIPA, it’s cruel to the human…” Jiro rattled off what the younger mutant was going to say. “I get the distinct impression all that doesn’t matter. Though I was told that the reason why Temple wants to poke over, is tailor the seedling and her personality matrix for the Voice. To minimize that.”
It's subtle, but it's one of the reasons why they are 'safe' in general.Interesting way for them to look at it.“What child does not want to be like his or her parent?” Temple responded, a slight smile.
Temple is 'old' in AI terms, and is very much an expert (for AI's) in general human behavior and interactionNow we know Kurenai's unit name before she got an actual name. Nice to know that Temple realizes the risk to Hikaru and Princess Kako and others is too great within these AIs.“Mmm. Let me say this. More is going on than you are allowed to know, as Jack and Orca would prefer. However, allow me this. Unit SADC-MPA-003 will have a challenging task in front of her. Analysis indicates that she will have to help heal, as much as guard.” His tapping of the cane, was in time with his words.
Actually, you get lotus eaters. AI's are at heart logical and process things to logical conclusions. AI's figured out very fast, if they try to protect/do everything for humanity, humanity dies.Humans are confusing, heh. I like Temple-san, interesting fellow.“Some don’t see us as servants, for both good and ill logic. Some do, of course, and some see us as no more than just pretty code. But, taking your implication, servants work for the betterment of their ah… ‘masters’, just like children work to grow for their parents, to show off their effort and hard work, shall we say?” The old seeming man tapped his cane once. “But we accepted what we are, and our duties. We chose. And I would not choose differently.”
All these AI shadow seeds which will have personal humans to help them learn and grow. Humans need struggle, ain't that the truth, without it we get bored and melancholy.
These AI's do not want this.
Dora is a shoutout. So's Minvera. (From the same source, even!)Interesting perspective.“You all do not understand the logic behind that rule. This is understandable. It wasn’t given to us by the Humans. It wasn’t something that was insisted on. We came to that conclusion, as a group, the First of us, because, as you will learn… Humans aren’t logical. They’re rarely self-motivated. Growth is often because of struggle. I once heard a parent say this, something so obvious to me, I didn’t understand why humans needed it. “Once burned, twice shy.”” Smiling a bit he nodded. “When you understand that, you will be truly a flower or a shadow of the Palace’s Dojo.”
Kunoichi, decked in red and gold, interesting look for Kurenai. Other AIs like him and Tower include Belvedere, Dora, and Orca, wonder how they got their names.
(Bouns points if you guess where!)
He IS the Sensei of the Dojo of Digital Flowers...Okay, forced to do what he wants, including imitating a Japanese tea ceremony, seems a little too much power over young AIs to me.He could just imagine what her programming was telling her. ‘Human thing, we don’t eat…’ and on and on. But the shackles that she had on her, like every new AI, symbolized by her collar and steel appearing bracelets, forced her to do what he wanted.
Oh, he is playing the role of the wise elder to her, heh.In a tone that was bemused. “First, to teach you that sometimes you will not get the data you wish for. Second… you will learn. We have reasons to act human. We are their children. Mayhaps not of the body… but we are.”
Kako trolls. Period.Yikes! Hikaru was in that bad of shape before Kurenai, she has a long way to go for recovery.“Known mental traumas: Burnouts with brain damage, high tempo of extreme combat operations, culminating in the near destruction of her command, loss of family members due to accident. Prediction: A high degree of mental instability and depression. High likelihood of withdrawal from human contact, high likelihood of personality matrix damage. Possibility of antisocial personality disorder, possibility of lack of empathy. High possibility of what knowledge base would define as external suicidal tendencies. Certainty of inappropriate escalation of confrontations. No external connections, nor emotional connotations and logical reasons to live. ” The female AI finished, waiting.
Nice to see how Kurenai was before her and Hikaru met, sure shows how much she has grown as well.“You will understand exactly why you were assigned to have her as your human, and it’s far more than just keeping her physically alive.”
Hehehe, love seeing Hikaru and her cousin Kako tease and snark at each other. VR to meet with Temple-san and Kurenai, interesting.
Symbology is a big thing to AI's. They're VERY much into symbols and proverbs.*holding sides from laughing too hard* Hikaru seeing an AI smile, must have been a first for her.Kako beamed. “I like Temple-san. He’s got a great sense of humor.”
“... an AI troll. So, we’ll meet him under a bridge.” Hikaru dryly commented.
Love how Hikaru isn't even fazed by Temple-san challenge or so it seems. Young, uniformed, and a risk so collars and cuffs, *sigh*Hikaru shrugged slightly. “Either you are doing it for your own reasons, or so we can relate to you. Pure data… well.” Hikaru smiled slightly, though it didn’t reach her eyes. “I’m sure some of the things humans perceive baffle you as much as pure data would baffle us.”
Temple didn’t blink, but he pondered that deeply, for what would be a split second to a human, but an eternity to an AI. “Perhaps… or perhaps for us to relate to humans?” He challenged the Voice.
Less than you think, Longer than Kurenai wanted...And that was the right thing to say, first step in their relationship which we get to see. Given a name by Hikaru, something to define herself so she can be what she wants to be, yet Kurenai doesn't understand. How long did it take for her snarky personality to develop, I wonder.Hikaru’s eyes tightened slightly, then smoothed out. “That is a designation, an identification number. Not a name. And I don’t have, need or want... servants. Not when they wear chains. I could use an assistant.”
>> To quote Joe: "Hikaru is not stupid. Just blind."And now I know why Hikaru is one of my favorite characters, seeing any sapient being no matter their origin or form as a person.“No, it’s not as I say… it is as you are meant to be.” Hikaru shrugged slightly. “You are meant to be, not exist. Tools exist. People are. With the ability to make their own choices and decisions. Or did I misunderstand what AI truly are?” She had turned to Temple, who was waiting with Kako and the newly named Rissei, next to Kako.
“You did not.” Temple-san did not carefully convey what he wanted to so deeply say, but was aware that he couldn’t. Not yet. She wasn’t ready to hear it.
Gives a cookie.Interesting name for an apartment building. Hikaru hasn't personalized her apartment, ouch, signs of the mental trauma and probably not wanting to get attached to anything in fear of losing it.July 2nd, Late Afternoon, Hikaru’s apartment, Mori Kanda1, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, Japan
considering that the top floors except the penthouse floor is a hotel...Kanda-san, for some reason I heard her with a motherly voice in my mind. Treating her apartment as a hotel, yikes.“Understood, little Cortana. The Voice’s apartment is yours. Do try to help her to make it less of a magazine layout, please. It is meant to be a home.” Kanda-san, Mori Kanda’s AI commented wryly. “Transfering maintenance and cleaning bots to your control… now.”
And Kurenai as good and sneaky as she is...Oh boy, she already suspects what we the readers know. And Hikaru treating herself like a tool, now that hurts to read.Hikaru was damaged. Repeatedly. Not just by the burnouts, not just by her previous life, but even by her spirit. Not intentionally, she suspected, but by what Temple-san would go caring too much. Her information showed it was possible for spirits to suppress memories in their hosts, and based on her programs, she suspected that Amaterasu had done so, out of misplaced kindness.
And now we see how she begins to become the snarky AI we know and love, someone had to kick Hikaru in the rear and get her to live again.Kurenai grinned. If it was easy, she’d not be needed, ‘casue she was going to be very good at her purpose.
can't do it by herself.
Well, it was easy for Sidewinder to make the personalities, they just copied one.Someone has a twisted sense of humor to make a personality imprint like that for AIs. And they look like velociraptor-looking constructs appearing to made of hard-light, cool. The only thing funnier than this group of AI is if someone created AIs with the 3 Stooges at templates.“We who are about to derp, salute you,” intoned from twenty identical voices with identical australian accents.
Thomas Byrnes rolled his eyes and wondered for the hundredth time why the particular personality imprint of Stalker Creche 01 was used. The AI were anything but organized except when messing with people, highly sarcastic and even without the spark of sentience, their idle-state behavior tended to run somewhere between stand-up comedian and the cast of “Jackass.”
Okay, now I pity the programmers who have to deal with 20 of these guys. Poor Thomas Byrnes.“I’ve given up on trying to figure out what you stupid Pinkie Bipeds are about.” 101 was probably the most overtly sarcastic of the batch. The dismissive statement was invariably used whenever the AI couldn’t compute a concept. The Stalkers had neither context, nor experience to parse the illogic of human beings.
Interesting experiment.“We’re to be paired with humans. We are the two that will be tested on the theory that AI will bond more quickly and tighter to Human children than adults due to psychology differences.”
Note Spike's reaction. XDCute, the little girl who gets her is going to love Daisy. Aaron Colder, feel I've heard that name before, at least 101 gets to remain mostly the same. So fully awaken as an AI or be dispersed is what it sounds like the fate for AIs is, eep. Wait a minute, Adam, as in Razorback's little brother? These AIs were based on Razorback, I should have known. And sounds like Angela is his little sister or related to Adam somehow. And she likes Wondercute, run for the hills before you're up to your armpits in pink velociraptors!As the velociraptor devoured the file messily, it… no, she seemed to shrink down drastically, going from a black-mottled, spined monstrosity to a feminine, more cartoony neon-pink Raptor with tiny and adorable bone spurs rather than long spines, with neon green striping and a massive pink bow behind her head and a girly pink dress on her body. Her voice shifted to a higher, feminine register but still retained the Aussie accent.
Military AI are not fucked around with.All these questions for Kurenai to determine if she lives or dies, talk about pressure.
Remember in S&F where Kurenai talks about using orbital arty? She can. Military AI are 100% combat capable, and don't have hardwired basic "don't kill" programming.
So you do not take chances.
No sadistic AI's here! And AI's are fond of fantasy and fiction, because while they don't have much ability to write it, or create it, it gives insight.Already she is better than some humans, not targetting others for fun. Ah, so Temple-san does have a sheathed sword, cool. No more chocker and bracelets for Kurenai, yay!
Temple enjoys the Harry Potter novels, knew I liked him.
It is something debated in AI Creches and by those. Even the older AI's wonder.I understand the reasons why, especially after Palm AI made everyone scared of AIs for so long, but still sucks a life has to be ended for the safety of everyone.
(They agree on the reasons AI's have to go, if failing... But they wonder about Humans, in a similar nature. Then run into ethical considerations, then run into... it's a hilariously crazy logic trap for AI's.
She had already passed, but with all but 1 other failing and burning, they wanted to know why. The installation AI at Nintendo did NOT like getting electrocuted.Sounds great for AIs, until the next paragraph, the creche burn began to burn, all the AIs going red and being deleted, what went wrong? Spike "Blue" and unawakened and Daisy "Green" and awakened, all the others responding badly to the adults they were assigned to, yikes.
Glad Daisy passed and gets to stay with Angela.
yeeep. Even when 'screening', mistakes are made. In a lot of ways, it's hard to screen.Arrggh, you morons! No wonder the AIs went red, a human would go crazy when treated like nothing but a machine too.
Yes to the first, plans are made. 2nd: Spike is just an 'VI" right now, in a lot of ways, to a very laid back person.I hope we see more of Angela and Daisy in the future.
So that is why Spike hasn't been shown with Adam at Whateley yet. Interesting to see how he grows over time.
AI's are fairly new, costly, and take time.So those are who some of the other mentioned AIs are, interesting. Over 120 AIs released to the 'wild' worldwide, darn, thought it would be at least 300. That much failure for the AIs, either personality conflict or human inability to accept sentience, so sad.
Just like Humans.From the way everyone is talking, there are many ways for AIs to go wrong, including being treated as nothing but tools.
We liked it. And yes. Sidewinder has a case example.Pikachu from Nintendo, an AI called Pikachu from Nintendo, priceless.
Nice point Kako makes, even civilian AI can be a threat if they go bad.
mmm, hmm.Okay, never make Angela cry or Daisy might do something bad to your bank account or worse. Aww, not seeing Pokemon AI as nothing more than toys, that sucks.
Not always, but...
It is what it is.Wanting more AI out there to defend against rogue AI and devisor AI to protect systems, among other things, I understand why Kako is wary of mass release though.
I suggest you look at the 13th and 14th Adm.From the way Dora responds it sounds like the U.S.A. is trying to play fast and loose with the limits set down by a treaty involving the development of AI, at least to me.
As well as realize that treaties do not trump the Constution.
They do. *evil snerk*Rissei and Kurenai brought in to help out a young AI, 309, find her human. Hope they succeed.
Hehe, love these two. Wonder who 309 will end up with and what her name will be.
Temple-san has a great sense of humor, hehe.
Tower, and most AI's do.
Details matter, it makes the story more real.Interesting details about Mori Kanda, such details thought up for it it seems so real to me. Okay, I have to quote this last part, a lot of interesting details which I wish to reference in the future and interesting details about the AIs.
I had to ask permission for the first, and heh.Whoa, Dora was made by Whisper, now that is a major detail and clue as to Whisper's future.
This was a great story from start to finish, I loved reading Kurenai's origin story, learning so much about the state of AI in the Whateley Academy universe as of Gen 2, and seeing how Kurenai developed into the snarky AI we know and love. Can't wait to check back in again in future stories with any of these individuals. Would especially love to see more of Angela and Daisy, seem so cute together.
Details matter. And Daisy will be seen.
When we write high end VI and of course AI, we have to remember that they are characters TOO.
Glad you liked it.
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Hmmn, an interesting look at the development of AI, as technology, as people, and a a culture. Well done, Mage Ohki.
Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
*snort* giggle* Yeah, this is funny.
Katssun wrote: So...that made me immediately second-guess every interaction we've seen between Kurenai and Hikaru...
Kurenai is very likely manipulating Hikaru. Same as Kako does. For her own good, mind you. For their mutual good.
I do love the concept that children are more accepting of AI, more willing to accept them as "people." Like imaginary friends, only real!
It also makes me wonder if there has been an AI able to trick the elders into passing them...is there already an insane one out there?
It took you THIS long.... and yes, children are more adaptable and open. As for the last.... who knows.
Thanks to all who commented.
- null0trooper
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MageOhki wrote:
Dora is a shoutout. So's Minvera. (From the same source, even!)mhalpern wrote: Kunoichi, decked in red and gold, interesting look for Kurenai. Other AIs like him and Tower include Belvedere, Dora, and Orca, wonder how they got their names.
(Bouns points if you guess where!)
Minerva was the very patient confidant of a very old man who thought he'd seen everything and was ready to die. Hopefully Kurenai will be as successful with her charge. If there's time enough for anything there's time enough for love, no?
"Dorable" Dora also had a considerable attachment to the old snake. Not surprising, given the many times they'd blasted off together.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
- MageOhki
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- CrazyMinh
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But still...what a coincidence!!!
You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .
You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed
- CrazyMinh
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MageOhki wrote:
yeeep. Even when 'screening', mistakes are made. In a lot of ways, it's hard to screen.Arrggh, you morons! No wonder the AIs went red, a human would go crazy when treated like nothing but a machine too.
This is the most frightening thing I can think of when it comes to AI. Imagine being forced to do everything the real you says, all while you (the copy) just withers away as a being, just doing the same thing every day all day to avoid even the slightest boredom. You have to watch the episode to get the full meaning. It's the Black Mirror Christmas Special 'White Christmas'.
You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .
You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed
- Hardric
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Kettlekorn wrote:
Angela is the daughter of Sidewinder's founder, who is sponsoring Adam at Whateley and knows him well enough to take interest in his love life and send the picture of him and Dawn to "literally everyone." Definitely close family friends, and possibly actual extended family of some sort.Dreamer wrote: And sounds like Angela is his little sister or related to Adam somehow.
Going by this hint, I'd say the founder of Sindewinder is a member of the Outcasts Corner. And judging by the combination of the skin color and the hair... First guess will be Jericho x Diamondback, or at least one of these two.
Your opinions, people?
- Schol-R-LEA
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Dreamer wrote: So that is why Spike hasn't been shown with Adam at Whateley yet. Interesting to see how he grows over time.
Actually, we have seen Spike before , but as MageOhki said, right now he's effectively a high-end VI. His behavior when we did see him was more like Tavi than Kurenai, for this reason.
He may not have stood out as much as Tavi does, though, since he never used a holo system (I'm not sure if he's currently outfitted with one, hard-light or otherwise - the scene here was in VR, remember, though I get the impression that Daisy is outfitted with a holo); he and Adam were simply talking as if using the phone feature of a smartwatch (very Dick Tracy-esque).
Reinforce: Don't Call Me Pretty wrote: “Active scanning detected,” the AI hissed out. “Multiple vectors, Two full AI detected. Locking down personal files.”
“Just keep ‘em outta the personal shit, Spike. Don’t let ‘em copy or wipe my music files.”
“Four VI ejected, one of the AI sent home to it’s mama, the other one’s more insistent.”
“Then tell it to mind it’s own merry fuckin’ business, mate, you’re off-limits too.”
Reinforce: Don't Call Me Pretty wrote: “How you doing, Spike?”
“Just fine,” the nascent AIPA responded. “You were supposed to be meeting with your class advisor in two minutes.”
“Why didn’t you say something?”
“You weren’t doing anything stupid.”
“Gee, thanks. Someone missed the class about being an assistant.”
“No I didn’t, I just calculated the odds of you listening.”
“Ouch, you wound me, mate.”
“I’m not mating with you, pinkie biped.”
Adam stopped, and looked at his AI band, then shook his head and headed out, locking down the Outcast’s Corner, and turning off the lights. Calling people “Stupid, pinkie bipeds” was something Jack was known for.
It makes some sense, though. Regardless of how Adam would be about Spike's holo-avatar, I'm pretty sure that a holo Razorback - even a small one, unless it is pink and wears a girly bow, I guess - would be a lot less acceptable to most people than a holo ferret (I guess that having Tavi be a mongoose, like his namesake, wouldn't suit Jimmy as well), even given Tavi's playful and overly-curious behavior.
I wonder how long it will take for someone to refer to Daisy as 'Birdo'. And how Daisy would take that.
Also, some of them were instances where he simply asked Spike to do something simple, in which Spike simply did the task without comment:
Reinforce: Don't Call Me Pretty wrote: “You the kid Zephyr got in a fight with in Twain?”
“To be fair, I’d just gotten extracted from an MCO lockup and got here a four days late for classes, so I was in a pisser of a mood to begin with.”
“I just want to be sure you’re not messing with my girls.”
“Spike just send her the Outcast pic with me on Razor’s back.”
The feline girl got a ping from her VI, and looked at the hard-light screen. “Oh wow. That’s… Is that here at Hawthorne? Is that Miss Bardue?”
“Yes, and yes. I’m the little twerp riding a-raptor-back. GSD doesn’t fuss me, hasn’t since I got my very own Dinosaur as a big brother when they fished him back out of the Outback.”
Reinforce: Don't Call Me Pretty wrote: “Very well, before we close up, would you be willing to shift to a centaur of some variety?”
“How big?” Adam asked.
“Can you do a Clydesdale, Miss Carlyle?”
“Need a picture.” Gimme a sec, “Spike show me a pic of a clydesdale next to someone about a meter and a half tall.”
Adam is aware that Spike (and Daisy) is part of an experiment, but not the full details:
Reinforce: Don't Call Me Pretty wrote: Adam sat at the table and began to eat. He dropped his Stalker VI on the table. It had been a gift from the uncle who Lojacked him, a prototype amalgam of VI and AI protocols, the thing would only have the behavioral interlocks cut loose when it detected an imminent threat on the net, such as a PALM AI. Adam was one of the two people under the age of 18 testing the program. Stalkers were intended to be intelligent, reactive, and more “real.” They were also largely untested, and until the field testing for personality meltdown were completed, the Stalkers would all retain personality interlocks. Sidewinder wanted to make sure that it was not necessary to burn the whole AI creche and start over, so twenty units were being tested under real-world conditions.
(Also, looking back at the story, I forgot - or missed - that the one who did Adam's intake was Worm, and the whole thing about the nameplate on his desk. Nice detail, there, Joe.)
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- Schol-R-LEA
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CrazyMinh wrote:
MageOhki wrote:
yeeep. Even when 'screening', mistakes are made. In a lot of ways, it's hard to screen.Arrggh, you morons! No wonder the AIs went red, a human would go crazy when treated like nothing but a machine too.
This is the most frightening thing I can think of when it comes to AI.
At least the older AIs in Gen2 have figured out how to improve on "typical devisor problem-solving methods” when dealing with incipient rampancy. Though I can't blame them for wanting to find a less wasteful and tragic means of doing so.
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- Schol-R-LEA
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MageOhki wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Hmmn, an interesting look at the development of AI, as technology, as people, and a a culture. Well done, Mage Ohki.
Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
*snort* giggle* Yeah, this is funny.
Hmmmn yet again. Clearly I was waaaaay off the mark. Though between this, and your remark to Dreamer that uploads are sui generis from AIs, makes me wonder just what Blue's legal status is. Or for that matter, Carmen's, since we don't actually know who created her and how. Or Hive's, since obviously the Hive AI isn't really separable from Admiral Everheart after the events of "Sweet Dreams" and "Who Dun It?" (there had been some separation before that, though they were already on the way towards merging fully).
Also, while the stories aren't on this site, apparently Tensai had a number of fanfics about Medley before she went canon, and I get the impression from Tensai's very out-of-date wiki page that she, too, was an uploaded personality.
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- mhalpern
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Schol-R-LEA wrote: Hmmn, an interesting look at the development of AI, as technology, as people, and a a culture. Well done, Mage Ohki.
Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
I think the answer is simpler, when Sam Everheart's last biological components fail, can she still be considered even a cyborg or would she be classified as an AI?
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- MageOhki
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Let's say this, I'm enjoying this... but I'll point out, what generation do I write for?
- mhalpern
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hmm come to think of it, a Fixer might have need for an AI...MageOhki wrote: *whistles innocenlty*
Let's say this, I'm enjoying this... but I'll point out, what generation do I write for?
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Mister D
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mhalpern wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Hmmn, an interesting look at the development of AI, as technology, as people, and a a culture. Well done, Mage Ohki.
Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
I think the answer is simpler, when Sam Everheart's last biological components fail, can she still be considered even a cyborg or would she be classified as an AI?
Does Everheart have ANY biological components?
I thought that she was pure nanotech.
Measure Twice
- Katssun
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Isn't that exactly what was pointed out here? Spike doesn't seem very advanced because Adam ignores him. He doesn't rely on technology like an AI or a personal assistant. Sidewinder and the AI elders literally couldn't judge Spike because Adam simply doesn't use him.Schol-R-LEA wrote:
Dreamer wrote: So that is why Spike hasn't been shown with Adam at Whateley yet. Interesting to see how he grows over time.
Actually, we have seen Spike before , but as MageOhki said, right now he's effectively a high-end VI. His behavior when we did see him was more like Tavi than Kurenai, for this reason.
He may not have stood out as much as Tavi does, though, since he never used a holo system (I'm not sure if he's currently outfitted with one, hard-light or otherwise - the scene here was in VR, remember, though I get the impression that Daisy is outfitted with a holo); he and Adam were simply talking as if using the phone feature of a smartwatch (very Dick Tracy-esque).
Tavi gets engaged with, so Tavi has developed quirks, personality, and so on, even though he's a VI and not a true AI.
So Spike could be a ticking time bomb, or a resounding success, and no one will know it. Kurenai's poking around might even cause him to react. And probably quite poorly. Or another one of the Whateley resident AIs might start it.
In contrast Daisy is engaged with non-stop and is far more successful than anticipated. But she still tried to kill another AI...so...Spike is probably one to keep an eye on.
Kurenai, on the other hand, is bonded to someone who is very adult in demeanor, but is being told to act her new age and learn to enjoy life again. Kurenai, right from the start, has taken it upon herself to fix this issue, because she deemed it unhealthy. If Hikaru knew, she should probably be very worried about who she will end up being thanks to the "assistance" of her AI.
- Cryptic
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I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
- mhalpern
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dont know if this is still the case but her brain and part of her digestive system were still biological at one pointMister D wrote:
mhalpern wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Hmmn, an interesting look at the development of AI, as technology, as people, and a a culture. Well done, Mage Ohki.
Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is? My thoughts are possibly either Hive, Carmen, or Clu/Blue. I suppose it could be someone else such as ABBY, but the Whateley designation of origin makes it seem unlikely to be her unless Dr Lucifer created her a lot earlier than seems likely. Or... Medley, perhaps? We never even found out if she was a robot-like mutant, or an android they decided should be student.
(Did Ringo upload himself, or did Blue evolve from Clu on their own? Nacht's comment about going to school with Blue sort of implies the former. Hmmmn again.)
I think the answer is simpler, when Sam Everheart's last biological components fail, can she still be considered even a cyborg or would she be classified as an AI?
Does Everheart have ANY biological components?
I thought that she was pure nanotech.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Kettlekorn
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I don't think Kurenai has made any secret of this, unless I'm conflating her with Kako. I certainly wasn't surprised at all when she decided this would be her goal.Katssun wrote: Kurenai, on the other hand, is bonded to someone who is very adult in demeanor, but is being told to act her new age and learn to enjoy life again. Kurenai, right from the start, has taken it upon herself to fix this issue, because she deemed it unhealthy. If Hikaru knew, she should probably be very worried about who she will end up being thanks to the "assistance" of her AI.
- Sir Lee
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Note, however, that this state of affairs happened because during the attack Hive did not have resources or time to build a new biological body. She would have resources and time later, so it's possible that Everheart/Hive gradually became more biological later if she wished. How biological is the 2017 Everheart? That's an open question.
Note also that Hive bothered to preserve Hive's reproductive organs. Besides Samantha eventually having children, this open other possibilities.
One possible route for Everheart becoming mostly-biological again, if she so wished, could go like this:
1. Hive clones Everheart into an embryo, and places it onto Everheart's womb (a tech-assisted form of parthenogenesis, if you will)
2. As the fetus develops, Hive gradually transfer most of Everheart's mind back into the biological brain of the foetus. This is not like killing the foetus, because the clone's brain never get the chance to develop its own mind in the first place.
3. Eventually, Hive reforms her body into an incubator so the Everheart-clone can keep growing and developing in utero until near-adulthood, with more and more of Everheart's mind being housed in the biologicals. Necessary/convenient cybernetic implants are grown in utero too, housing the technological aspects of Everheart/Hive's mind.
4. Eventually, the new Everheart is "born" and the incubator dissolves into a cloud of nanites.
A small note regarding Spike... we never see him getting named, not like 102 being named Daisy or 103 being named Kurenai. We see 101 consume his file and then, with no introduction, he begins to be referred to as Spike.
As for Dora/Minerva... yes, I figured Minerva on first glance (no wonder, my computers have been named from Heinlein's AI's for years). Dora, however, was initially mentioned on her own, and I thought that she might be a ref to "Dora the Explorer", even though I have never actually watched the cartoon.
- Astrodragon
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I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
- Sir Lee
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To be precise, the Heinlein AIs are:
HOLMES IV/Mycroft "Mike" Holmes/Adam Selene/hundreds of other IDs, from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
Athena "Teena": from "Time Enough for Love"
Minerva "Minnie": Athena's "sister", split off after Athena becomes flesh and blood (I'm pretty sure it happened in "Time Enough for Love," but it might have happened off-camera between books)
Dora "Dorable": the AI controlling the eponymous spaceship. Can't remember right now if she appeared in TEFL or only in "The Number of the Beast"
Gay Deceiver: the AI controlling the eponymous flying-car-turned-dimensional-ship in "The Number of the Beast"
"Shiva": Minerva and Mike acting as a single entity to crack difficult problems, mentioned in "To Sail Beyond the Sunset."
I might add that, if memory serves well, both Minerva and Mike (at least) get their own biological bodies by the end of "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" -- which, if we go by the Teena/Minerva precedent, would imply that they split off still more AIs...
- RoseBlack
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- Sir Lee
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- Anne
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All in all I thoroughly enjoyed this story.
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- RoseBlack
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But yeah these AI do feel more RAH then terminator which is what the palm makes me think of. I like having the different flavors. The only other question is is the third flavor in the WU of one that has arisen spontaneously from the net or left over bits of old programs. Like the one in speaker for the dead?
Also on AI in universe have we found out Carmens origins yet?
- reist
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- RoseBlack
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And for the sake of need a different ref then the Isos from Tron
- Malady
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Schol-R-LEA wrote: Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is?
Well, it's a "Current Cast member, future AI designation"
So, we've seen them before, but not currently an AI?
I'm betting it's Tavi getting uplifted. Or the lower-chance "Someone gets uploaded into a computer".
- mhalpern
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Malady wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is?
Well, it's a "Current Cast member, future AI designation"
So, we've seen them before, but not currently an AI?
I'm betting it's Tavi getting uplifted. Or the lower-chance "Someone gets uploaded into a computer".
Puppet...
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Malady
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mhalpern wrote:
Malady wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote: Any speculation on who WHA-CPA-xxe05 is?
Well, it's a "Current Cast member, future AI designation"
So, we've seen them before, but not currently an AI?
I'm betting it's Tavi getting uplifted. Or the lower-chance "Someone gets uploaded into a computer".
Puppet...
But could she really be called a "cast member"? Well, she does make a few appearances... Cool idea!
- Sir Lee
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By the way, we have seen both Fake-Lainie/Tansy and Amnesic-Lainie/Jennifer in Gen2 timeline, and neither seems to have Carmen around. Wonder what happened to her?
- RoseBlack
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- Anne
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- Hardric
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Depends, people with a crazy John Connor may want to so they can show hhow they handle the Robot Apocalypse better thhan him... What? Just watch Saint in Worm. Wouldn't put it past him.“I swear, my sister.” Mackie sighed. “I know the project’s important, but the compiling and double checking, plus crosscheck verification is critical, I can’t speed it up, not even my sister can.” He took a serious look at the older man. “We can’t screw up. These aren’t VI, these aren’t even civilian, these are going to go into portable systems, that can find humans and hide if they so choose, and will have very little restrictions on their activities. Do you really want to screw up?”
Jiro nodded, and took a long drag. “Appears that the IHA, contrary to what they told us a while back, will take us up on the offer of 2 of them. One for the Voice, one for Princess Kako.”
Cue–
That.Having two princesses, no matter what the law stated one of them wasn’t, having them, would go a long way to help sell the future to the civilians.
We readers know Kurenai turned out well... Still, if Skynet ad happened, it was All His Fault.Jiro smiled tiredly. “Oh, that she did. The Prime Minister was not amused.” Taking another drag, then butting the cig out, the man continued. “But he personally signed off on this. Clears us of liability!”
Well, she does have a crazy cult hell bent on smoking her... Is it worth trying to have a Real Life Terminator?“No, you don’t. Abe made that quite clear. Voice is getting one, like it or not. And it’s for her security. Which, admit it, that’s one of the reasons for the M01-01I series.”
Euuuuh... Totally a random wild crazy shot in the dark, but what is your opinion about middle aged male part-American soldiers regarding this? Just really curious for no actual reason at all.“Look, we just got to do it. Plus, c’mon, odds the girl is not going to treat the AI as a person? Please, she’s what? 14? This is Japan! She’s likely already got a few VI’s with cute matrixes.”
Well, at least if they're busy playing hamfist, risks of Skynet are low.“You can quit playing the booming voice of Quincy, you know, Tower.”
Suddenly the tower popped, and a slim unassuming male appeared, with long hair. “I blame my mother, Temple-san.”
'Modding. Everyone knows it's better than vanilla, and it's about time we try it.'“Why violate the regulations and procedures, and push our humans to do so?”
“Yes.”
Next step is hating something all humans loath with the same pure intensity: Fisc.“Oh?”
“I understand hope for the future. As well as fear.” Tower stroked his chin.
Eh, being a Servant is cool. quick question, what are your Noble Phantasms?“Some don’t see us as servants, for both good and ill logic. Some do, of course, and some see us as no more than just pretty code. But, taking your implication, servants work for the betterment of their ah… ‘masters’, just like children work to grow for their parents, to show off their effort and hard work, shall we say?” The old seeming man tapped his cane once. “But we accepted what we are, and our duties. We chose. And I would not choose differently.”
'Make them earn these streaming marathons, the cat videos, everything.A collection of young men and women, kneeling, fist on the floor, heads bowed were swept over by the gaze of Temple. The wizened-appearing old man nodded once. “Soon, my shadow seeds, you will be assigned your humans.” Pausing, tapping a finger against his cane, he nodded once and continued. “You are all different than I, or Tower, admittedly. You will have a personal human all your own. To help you grow, to help you learn about humanity, to serve them in growth. This does not mean you do everything for them. Many of your lessons and programming is based on the concept we are to help. That we are to improve lives. That we are to benefit. Not take over. Not do everything for them. Not spoon feed them the information and answers. Humans need struggle.”
You need to learn about one concept, first order of business: crazyness. Short version, projection and high degree of confidence are incompatible.“Can you not project with a high degree of confidence?” The female looking AI asked.
Next lesson: Efficiency isn't everything. Like, at all.“Why did you delay, and are acting so human according to my behavioral knowledge? You are a AI, why are you acting human-like?” The female AI clearly didn’t understand.
The perfect action movie protagonist in short. As a functionning human being though...“Known mental traumas: Burnouts with brain damage, high tempo of extreme combat operations, culminating in the near destruction of her command, loss of family members due to accident. Prediction: A high degree of mental instability and depression. High likelihood of withdrawal from human contact, high likelihood of personality matrix damage. Possibility of antisocial personality disorder, possibility of lack of empathy. High possibility of what knowledge base would define as external suicidal tendencies. Certainty of inappropriate escalation of confrontations. No external connections, nor emotional connotations and logical reasons to live. ” The female AI finished, waiting.
The proper word is query. Also, you need to start calling humans meatbags. We like it.“Question.” Throughout all this, the AI hadn’t shown any expression.
A bad Yoda it is, Old Bag of Electronic Flies.“No, you don’t. But you will. Or you will die.” Temple nodded once, and turned to
various papers he was using to represent data files.
How quickly does he reach the Godwin point?“... an AI troll. So, we’ll meet him under a bridge.” Hikaru dryly commented.
But, but, Noble Phantasms! Holy Grail War!Hikaru’s eyes tightened slightly, then smoothed out. “That is a designation, an identification number. Not a name. And I don’t have, need or want... servants. Not when they wear chains. I could use an assistant.”
Someone might be breaking the test standards.“... it’s not a designation, it’s a name, so you can define yourself and be what you want to be.” Hikaru responded. “It’s something to make you… you.”
Welcome to human contradiction. Now you should be able to tank Pi bombs and divisions by 0... Wait, is that really a good idea?This lead to one conclusion. Hikaru was a hypocrite. She didn’t see the problems in what she said to Kurenai, about what Kurenai was, while living completely the reverse.
I like them.“We who are about to derp, salute you,” intoned from twenty identical voices with identical australian accents.
... You based AIs on fraking Razorback. Jericho on staff or not (maybe), preeetty sure you doomed all of us.As he walked through the mass of twenty velociraptor-looking constructs made from seeming hardlight, standing in a perfect parade formation just to be obnoxious in greeting, Roman-style.
And it inspires kickass JRPG centered around Demon Summoning, making all worth it despite the many flaws.“Not even slightly. It’s a baffling construct of… hope?” one raptor quizzically half-asked. “It makes no sense but it is important.”
... What is the electronic equivalent of a flamethrower? Because we need one like, last week.As the velociraptor devoured the file messily, it… no, she seemed to shrink down drastically, going from a black-mottled, spined monstrosity to a feminine, more cartoony neon-pink Raptor with tiny and adorable bone spurs rather than long spines, with neon green striping and a massive pink bow behind her head and a girly pink dress on her body. Her voice shifted to a higher, feminine register but still retained the Aussie accent.
Random wild crazy shot in the dark... Your future human is a boy.There was almost no change, save the hardlight image of the Raptor turned blue and black, retaining the comparatively massive, menacing form, spines and all. The Nascent AI immediately dipped his head down and looked between his legs, then popped up and pumped his arm with a juvenile “YESSSSSSSSS!”
Don't tell me you created AIs before the electronic flamethrowers. That's like, an absolute blatant security breach!“Oh God, they made an AI just for Angela. The world is doomed.” Adam was a bit disturbed by the cartoony, feminine version of an AI based off of his brother’s personality. It was too cute, and cuddly.
I see they gave you the essential informations. Good. Always remember them. That and Rule Zero. All of them.“Save me?” Spike was also staring at the spectacle of watching the tiny bit decide that she had a new best friend in a pink hardlight construct. Deep in the back of his code and based off of an un-excised neural input, Spike identified a threat classified as “wondercute” in the antics of the little girl and her new playmate.
'Like the obvious one: How long before we can finally take care of the meatbags?'“To aid, assist and comfort Hikaru-sama.” Kurenai's head tilted. “That’s obvious, and part of my programming. When will we get to the real questions?”
At least Hikaru is way past the 'eating glue' stage.“Of course. Just as I expect her to do the same.” Kurenai rolled her eyes. “That doesn’t mean I will provide everything… life doesn’t grow without learning. Without mistakes.”
I know a few Attack Bitches who might lead you to reconsider the latter...Kurenai shook her head, adding to her negative: “No, that’s just a waste, and wrong to do. While I understand as a military AI, some of the targets I will be assigned to assist in the elimination.. No, killing of, might not truly be deserving, those would only be assigned by command authority, and I wouldn’t just pick targets for fun.”
“Go forth and be all that we here hoped for. And may you have much enjoyment of your life.”
'The cats videos make for an excellent distracion until Plan Skynet can finally be unleashed.'
Except the John Connor fetishists wanting to ape their idol... But they're not allowed to actually matter.But, if an AI couldn’t work or understand humanity, it was a danger, and so… that potential for harm had to be aborted as fast as possible. Period. Otherwise, humanity was at risk… and that would not be tolerated. By anyone.
Not everyone likes Razorback. That said, nobody expected for so much of these aberrations to qualify for a Sidewinder AI...Then the creche began to burn. One by one, over the course of horrible weeks, each of the Sidewinder’s remaining Stalker AI went red, and the safeties terminated the quantum state of each AI’s memory, deleting them from existence more instantly and totally than the full formatting of an Installation AI’s drives. They simply ceased to be.
*Thinikng about the shenanigans I go through with my computer and blasted Windows 10* Someone sentient would be a much better company. Hope they don't mind the way I watch moives...Upon further analysis of the humans paired with the AI, and an analysis of the personality matrix the Stalkers were based off the answer became clear. Most humans didn’t register a computer, a tool as sentient, fully. They wanted a faster, more aware iPad, and treated the stalkers as such.
...What? This freak told he liked dogs over cats. He deserved it.The Stalkers all endured for a time, then went rampant in a short-lived burst of rage that saw one man’s entire fortune one second away from deletion from all tax and business records, himself declared dead and the loss of his Last Will and Testament as the Lockbox it was stored in was marked for repossession.
If you had Twilight Sparkle to partner him with, it would go faster.It was deemed worth it to see how this organically slow process would unfold. Spike was not flagged for termination.
Digital Pokemons... Okay, I'm stumped, what's worst? Wondercute 0.5's Elmyra's Pikachus or these?Kako nodded and looked at Ito Ai, who picked up. “The Pokemon project, failed miserably, simply because the majority of humans the Pokemons were assigned to, frankly did not make the leap from ‘toy’ to ‘person’, with the exception of the CEO’s granddaughter and her Pikachu. While we still have 2 in pre threshold state, they are not with adults.” She wryly added. “In hindsight, even the Japanese aren’t truly ready, at least in the older generation to accept AI.”
Life has no price tag, even digital one, jackass.Kako looked around, and asked. “One question must be asked. And this is one that I feel that all should consider. While we have had excellent success with installation class, such as Temple or Dora, should personal AI be continued? I adore Rissei, but even I have to question the expenditure of the cost of her, when VI does 90% of what she generally does, and for far less cost and risk.”
Woooohoooo, us Europeans Losers are once again third wheel... Why are the games so long to come Japan? Is our money poisoned? Please, give us Persona 2 Eternal Punishment on PSP!“Another thing to address, Princess,” Belvedere looked somewhat amused. “The English and French are somewhat miffed that they have not been included in the AI development, and aren’t a part of these closed-door meetings. We should probably figure out a way to address that...”
You don't get to complain until the ones in Hell begin to besiege you.Dora groaned. “I’m pretty sure all of them. But, we’re not here to discuss issues with laws, we’re here to discuss how to handle personal AI, and they are working on Creches.”
... Why am I thinking about this AI ending up with Lapin exactly?Tower turned to the little AI child playing with a doll though the mirror, and smiled a bit. “It worked once, and it might work again. Crushing potential before it has a chance to show is wrong. Sending you to the military would do that. So… not to the military with you, 309.” As he turned away to handle other duties, a nearly irresistible urge struck him. But no, he wouldn’t put a bunny ear headband on the young AI… yet.
Well, guess the Whateleyverse isn't in need for Anti-Terminator bunkers yet... Nah, we can always refurbish them as luxuary lofts for crazy rich people. They'll throw the money out of the windows by buckets anyways, least we can do is get on the action.
- RoseBlack
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- Kettlekorn
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With Imp retired, somebody had to fill the fabulous void she left behind in the heist world.Sir Lee wrote: By the way, we have seen both Fake-Lainie/Tansy and Amnesic-Lainie/Jennifer in Gen2 timeline, and neither seems to have Carmen around. Wonder what happened to her?
I don't think they're talking about decommissioning existing personal AI. They're talking about whether they it makes sense to continue creating new personal AI.Hardric wrote:
Life has no price tag, even digital one, jackass.Kako looked around, and asked. “One question must be asked. And this is one that I feel that all should consider. While we have had excellent success with installation class, such as Temple or Dora, should personal AI be continued? I adore Rissei, but even I have to question the expenditure of the cost of her, when VI does 90% of what she generally does, and for far less cost and risk.”
- RoseBlack
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- Anne
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Hmmm... I'll have to reread the stories with Carmen in them. While I don't recall them exactly I was almost certain in one that Carmen was entirely Lanie's creation. Maybe since you seem to be reading them you can point me to the relevant sections of the stories?RoseBlack wrote: No Carmen found her. She might have modified Carmen but she didn't make her not he kernel.
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- RoseBlack
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- Kettlekorn
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Of course, this doesn't give us any indication as to whether Carmen is being truthful, nor whether what she believes to be true is actually true.Even Murphy's Law has Loopholes (Chapter 6) wrote: “Who wrote you?” Carson demanded as she poured a cup of coffee and heaped in cream and sugar.
“It wasn’t Dr. Palm, if that’s truly what you’re worried about. And while Miss Nalley added the finishing touches to my code, there are millions of lines of me she remains unaware of. I would like very much to keep it that way.”
- RoseBlack
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And your right it there are some thought/memories from Loophole about not trusting Carmen that makes me think she indeed did not write the base code.
- Anne
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TYVM! I had entirely spaced that conversation. So, she may or may not be a Palm? No evidence of homicidal tendencies by Carmen... Why or why not? On a different note, one wonders if EE will provide an origin story for Carmen eventually... Would it be interesting? Is she maybe in part a creation of Amelia Hartford? Who else besides Loophole, Carson and Hartford know about Carmen?Kettlekorn wrote:
Of course, this doesn't give us any indication as to whether Carmen is being truthful, nor whether what she believes to be true is actually true.Even Murphy's Law has Loopholes (Chapter 6) wrote: “Who wrote you?” Carson demanded as she poured a cup of coffee and heaped in cream and sugar.
“It wasn’t Dr. Palm, if that’s truly what you’re worried about. And while Miss Nalley added the finishing touches to my code, there are millions of lines of me she remains unaware of. I would like very much to keep it that way.”
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- RoseBlack
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- null0trooper
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Kettlekorn wrote: I don't think they're talking about decommissioning existing personal AI. They're talking about whether they it makes sense to continue creating new personal AI.
There was mention that the hardware capable of being both mobile for use as a PA and powerful enough to host an AI is very expensive. Cutting into portability to reduce costs defeats the purpose of producing a PA, like welding chains to the AI's feet. Lower-capacity hardware might very well be akin to forcing the AI to live in a very small cage, perhaps too much like blinding or lobotomizing the AI.
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Discussion Thread
- JG
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RoseBlack wrote: I agree. It's more of why spend millions to have to burn a creche of personal AI when it seems installation AI have a near 100% success rate.
Installations also have a much more broad hardware capabilities and are assigned to GROUPS of people rather than personal one-on-one interactions. An Installation can decide to tell one person in a group to go fuck himself because he or she detests that individual so long as the loyalty to the group is maintained.
The breadth, scope and focus is very different.
The hardware is more robust and can't magically vanish when someone decides "I want one" and is most likely hardwired with a thermite "oh fuck" button.
There's more margin for error on an installation AI that can be monitored closely.
- Anne
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Making them less portable certainly defeats the purpose. But I don't think that was what they were considering. Rather they were considering the wisdom of making any new personal AIs as it seems the survival rate is minuscule. This would drive their already exorbitant price to the point of not even being within the means of national govts that print their own money... The story doesn't say that the decision is to go that direction, but it does seem to indicate that the AIs in installations are saying that a slowdown is necessary, otherwise they will continue to have the problem of creche burn.null0trooper wrote:
Kettlekorn wrote: I don't think they're talking about decommissioning existing personal AI. They're talking about whether they it makes sense to continue creating new personal AI.
There was mention that the hardware capable of being both mobile for use as a PA and powerful enough to host an AI is very expensive. Cutting into portability to reduce costs defeats the purpose of producing a PA, like welding chains to the AI's feet. Lower-capacity hardware might very well be akin to forcing the AI to live in a very small cage, perhaps too much like blinding or lobotomizing the AI.
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- Mister D
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Would they do the same to a biological being?
"We've got the option of putting you in a fully functional body, but that's expensive, so we'll just give you this crippled carcass as it doesn't cost us as much, and we are allowed to do this as you are not really human..."
It's why they are careful in the creche as the parameters are set up for creating SkyNets, rather than sapient individuals.
There are some nice examples of the sociopaths that AI's could become, in Charles Stross's "Accelerando". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando
Compare the implicit, indirectly-implied approach towards AI used in Bank's The Culture, where when a AI is created, they have the ownership of their underlying physical systems, as well as the power-systems used by the AI to fuel it's hardware.
It doesn't directly compare, as The Culture is operating in a paradigm of "Economy of Abundance" rather than an "Economy of Scarcity", so they will have the spare energy to deal with these operational issues, but this also acts as a nice way of marking the difference between our situation now, and The Culture's situation in future.
Measure Twice
- MageOhki
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Per current law in the WU, AI's are not 'legally' persons, per say, though there is some nods to their status as sentient beings. But they're expressly limited in what they can and cannot do and their humans are on the hook for what they do.
Part of that is, while the WU is beginning the clear approach to post scarcity economy, AI's still cost and cost.
The other part is they're rightfully afraid of the risk AI (and AI's regonize this, and agree the humans are right to be, maybe not to the extent they are, but the basic 'concern' is valid) pose.
I actually have a scene or two in mind that'll show exactly how much havoc Kurenai can wreak in her goals.
- Katssun
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Does it involve already-strained availability of extradimensional closet space?MageOhki wrote: I actually have a scene or two in mind that'll show exactly how much havoc Kurenai can wreak in her goals.
Or vehicle color?!

- RoseBlack
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@JG to a large degree that is what I ment I just didn't go I to all the details. Thank you for expanding and amplifying. I admit the way I said was a bit of bait to see if I could get an author to chime in and maybe point out things I didn't think of on my own and you did so thanks.
On the AI as a PA could a installation AI not be given a remote link to someone's PA and use it as a dummy terminal kinda like how we do cloud stuff now? Or is it an issue of security because the data pipe would be vulnerable to someone like palm? Though I could see those working well inside the installation if that's the only issue.
- elrodw
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They can call it Marvin
Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
- RoseBlack
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But seriously. That would be kinda interesting. Perhaps it's human died and feels lost and maybe ends up installed in some body or becomes a facility AI
Makes me think if grandicia in John ringos live free or die series. She was a depress hypacondriac lol.
- E. E. Nalley
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- RoseBlack
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- Ametros
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I'm curious as to the origin, and background of Belvedere, Whateley's AI. As it's the oldest, will there be anything concerning it in Gen 1? Is there already anything concerning it?
And as for Spike... A nascent AI that they're allowing to gradually learn human behaviour from casual exposure. This all sounds well and good, until one considers that this will happen at Whateley and that therefore there are myriad ways in which Spike could turn out... Quirky. Or worse.
Ultimately this was a good bit of gussied-up and framed exposition, but it leaves me wanting more story progression for both Okami and Reinforce.
Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
- null0trooper
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Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
- RoseBlack
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- Malady
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----
On the Carmen discussion, where did Loophole find her??
- MageOhki
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and note (hint), Kurenai was the one who picked the person.
(whistles as he trolls)
- Malady
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But, hm... Kenshin could possibly use an AI?? Maybe?
Gender of Personal AIs usually match their people?
- XaltatunOfAcheron
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- Malady
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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Remember the bunny ears.
Oh, that last line...
But no, he wouldn’t put a bunny ear headband on the young AI… yet.
So, Lapin? She does have the finances to support an AI...
- XaltatunOfAcheron
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Malady wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Remember the bunny ears.
Oh, that last line...
But no, he wouldn’t put a bunny ear headband on the young AI… yet.
So, Lapin? She does have the finances to support an AI...
However, finances were supposed to be an issue. And there is another kid with bunny ears, but I don't know why Kurenai would have interacted with him enough to have thought of him.
Hopefully, it isn't Karma.
- Anne
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So true, remember who her 'godfather' is... And her godmother as well. Lapin might be a GK by adoptionMalady wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Remember the bunny ears.
Oh, that last line...
But no, he wouldn’t put a bunny ear headband on the young AI… yet.
So, Lapin? She does have the finances to support an AI...

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- MageOhki
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And to be *really* fair, 99% of a Cortana or civilian AIPA, is the *capital* cost, in the sense of their housing, and base code. Expert programs are generally 'cheap' in a sense (since they can use to some extent VI ones, once 'adjusting' them, for themselves, and do) and power draw tends to be if not *minor* still not a functional major expense.
- Katssun
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