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Question The Garden of Good and Evil

6 years 6 months ago #1 by Dreamer
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  • A new Gen 1 piece by JG is up, with Team Awesome, Eldritch, and Outcast Corner. So read, enjoy, and please comment.

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 6 months ago #2 by Malady
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  • Oh wow! Amazing~!

    And answers questions I never thought to ask!

    The nice family stuff is great!
    6 years 6 months ago #3 by mhalpern
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  • I love Carson's apple and tree analogy...

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #4 by Dpragan
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  • All I can say, is:

    Oh HELL YES!

    :twisted:

    In the end reality is only consensual! It means that Al Gore is causing "Global Warming" by his rhetoric alone! Fortunately, there are enough Global Warming "Deniers" still about to keep him from boiling the planet.

    =^+^=
    6 years 6 months ago #5 by Anne
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  • All I can say is that the authors seem to be going all out to make me tear up. This is an excellent piece, but everything published in the last month has been of the same caliber. And by that I mean that it is excellent. So many things to comment on, OC is just so much fun to watch, and while we don't get to see Miranda's POV here she is focused on enough that we get a clearer picture of her relationship with Catlin and her mother.
    Goodness another excellent.
    I don't think I can say that enough about this piece, and to know that there is more to come?
    I want it now! But I must be patient!
    6 years 6 months ago #6 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    The Garden of Good and Evil comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 6 months ago #7 by mhalpern
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  • Love the Saphire and Diamondback scene and the Carlyle reunion, particularly the reactions of everyone around them

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #8 by null0trooper
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  • Definitely worth the wait between setup and payoff.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #9 by jmhyp
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  • I don't know, Joe. That was basically a happy ending. When does the other shoe drop?
    6 years 6 months ago #10 by OtherEric
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  • As I told JG when I read it, I was literally in tears at the ending. Which has only happened about half a dozen times in 4+ decades of reading.
    6 years 6 months ago #11 by Valentine
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  • What are we going to do with a not unhappy Caitlin?

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 6 months ago #12 by Kristin Darken
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  • Put her in Wondercute.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 6 months ago #13 by Dreamer
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: Put her in Wondercute.

    Jericho would disown her if that happened. :-p Plus I think that happening is one of the sure signs of the apocalypse happening soon. :whistle:

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    6 years 6 months ago #14 by JG
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  • Pretty sure Caitlin would disown her.


    But glad you're liking the story so far. I could leave you all on that emotional cliffhanger, and let you wonder...

    Or I can write the third act as planned.

    mmmmm, inducing outrage looks tempting...
    6 years 6 months ago #15 by MM2ss
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  • Yes! More Eldritch, this is why I check every monday and friday. I loved it.
    6 years 6 months ago #16 by Sir Lee
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  • I don't think we are in any danger of having an annoyingly happy Caitlin skipping around the school pathways and applying for Wondercute. Yes, she got back something she considered lost and can begin healing (it takes time) from that specific trauma. But she has a whole boatload of other trauma to deal with. Need I give a partial list?
    - Asshole male DNA-donor
    - active military service (most veterans have issues; Caitlin has issues on top of issues on top of more issues)
    - That night in Australia long ago
    - Butcher Row
    - Halloween 2006
    - Reaper

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 months ago #17 by Katssun
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  • If I had to pick one standout...okay...two, it would have to be Sapphire finally speaking to Sandra, and even telling her she's doing it wrong, and that the Mahren girls stick together.

    Miranda hears it all. Carson has this whole thing worked out, even planning to give the family a moment alone to reconcile, using Miranda to finally tell Natalie. Except...Miranda also brought Cait up to speed. Wrongs had been made, but it gave off the impression that there will be no further breaches of trust. That made me smile.
    6 years 6 months ago #18 by Erianaiel
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  • Valentine wrote: What are we going to do with a not unhappy Caitlin?


    Why would Caitlin be happy now? She has one issue that haunted her that could begin to heal. A decade of suicidal rage is not going to resolve itself from learning that some waste of good oxygen lied to everybody. It just means that doctor Bellows finally can start with the healing.

    None of this addresses the dozens, thousands of other issues that are still crushing Caitlin down. The things she did in the army, as a dragonslayer. The things she learned (like Butcher's Row) and had to keep silent about. The fact that the army could at any moment decide that she was a security issue and send some CIA operatives after her.
    And then there are all the past lives as near soulless slave where she worked for uncaring Sidhe, morally conflicted but ruthlessly expiditious inquisitors and horrifyingly evil abominations, creating weapons and armour that should not exist.

    I don't think we are running out of traumas for Caitlin any time soon.

    And after that there is still the ruthless humans and the evil abominations that will do just about anything to get an artificer under control. The tattoos are a convenient way to destroy the sense of self and enslave an emerging one, but a fool's circle and mental enslavement spell will do just as well as Hekate has shown (as long as you don't get greedy and cocky and try to renew the spell and enslave a Sidhe queen at the same time while leaving a crazy devisor run amock through your base)
    At some point Caitlin may want to deal with the trauma caused by Butcher's Row, which opens a whole new can of worms.

    I don't think we are running out of other causes for exciting adventures for our favourite ball of rage either.
    6 years 6 months ago #19 by mhalpern
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  • Erianaiel wrote:

    Valentine wrote: What are we going to do with a not unhappy Caitlin?


    Why would Caitlin be happy now? She has one issue that haunted her that could begin to heal. A decade of suicidal rage is not going to resolve itself from learning that some waste of good oxygen lied to everybody. It just means that doctor Bellows finally can start with the healing.

    None of this addresses the dozens, thousands of other issues that are still crushing Caitlin down. The things she did in the army, as a dragonslayer. The things she learned (like Butcher's Row) and had to keep silent about. The fact that the army could at any moment decide that she was a security issue and send some CIA operatives after her.
    And then there are all the past lives as near soulless slave where she worked for uncaring Sidhe, morally conflicted but ruthlessly expiditious inquisitors and horrifyingly evil abominations, creating weapons and armour that should not exist.

    I don't think we are running out of traumas for Caitlin any time soon.

    And after that there is still the ruthless humans and the evil abominations that will do just about anything to get an artificer under control. The tattoos are a convenient way to destroy the sense of self and enslave an emerging one, but a fool's circle and mental enslavement spell will do just as well as Hekate has shown (as long as you don't get greedy and cocky and try to renew the spell and enslave a Sidhe queen at the same time while leaving a crazy devisor run amock through your base)
    At some point Caitlin may want to deal with the trauma caused by Butcher's Row, which opens a whole new can of worms.

    I don't think we are running out of other causes for exciting adventures for our favourite ball of rage either.

    Not unhappy≠ happy, though as Diamondback noticed, she wasn't internally raging like normal after Dimes got to her, in addition many though not all of the actions of the Dragonslayer unit seem to be in the process of being declassified and they are even receiving pardons for some of their more gruesome actions. That isn't the kind of thing that happens when the brass has any intention of tying up loose ends.

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #20 by mhalpern
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  • Sir Lee wrote: I don't think we are in any danger of having an annoyingly happy Caitlin skipping around the school pathways and applying for Wondercute. Yes, she got back something she considered lost and can begin healing (it takes time) from that specific trauma. But she has a whole boatload of other trauma to deal with. Need I give a partial list?
    - Asshole male DNA-donor
    - active military service (most veterans have issues; Caitlin has issues on top of issues on top of more issues)
    - That night in Australia long ago
    - Butcher Row
    - Halloween 2006
    - Reaper


    Speaking of the top item on that list, i suspect a double wammy of divorce papers and restraining orders, the later for his own protection (and argument for self defense if he violates them) So now that Evil Incarnate, Chibi Evil and Apocalyptic Evil are all together, (since I am assuming that the middle sister is more normal for a Mahren) will Plain Evil be brought into the picture?

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #21 by Erianaiel
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  • mhalpern wrote: Not unhappy≠ happy, though as Diamondback noticed, she wasn't internally raging like normal after Dimes got to her, in addition many though not all of the actions of the Dragonslayer unit seem to be in the process of being declassified and they are even receiving pardons for some of their more gruesome actions. That isn't the kind of thing that happens when the brass has any intention of tying up loose ends.


    The dragonslayers lived for a long time with a delayed death sentance above their head and being denied the mental healthcare they desperately needed.
    Some of their story getting declassified is not going to lessen the damage that was done.

    And I do not believe that any of the dragonslayers (except probably one) is ready to forget or forgive themselves for what they did.. Caitlin most certainly is not.

    Before too long Caitlin will start building up that rage, as she has not learned to develop a normal coping mechanism (and no, by no stretch of imagination can the Outcast Corner be considered normal). Hopefully she now finally will allow herself to accept the professional help she is offered and she desperately needs
    6 years 6 months ago #22 by Valentine
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  • As has been pointed out "not unhappy" does not equal "happy." Yes she still has issues, an entire magazine stand full, but she is now getting help from Outcast Corner (don't diminish what multiple empaths can do), Dr. Bellows, Foobs, Miranda, and now her mom. She has a long way to go, as do the other Dragonslayers, but every journey begins with a single step.

    Caitlin is now likely to be more social, less stomping around. She's going to still be aggressive, ornery, flippant, and troublesome. She is less likely to slip into the crushing despair she was in when Dimes pulled her out.

    She is likely to start plotting the demise of the MCO.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #23 by JG
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  • Quick bit about the Dragonslayers issues: a bit of background that has not come up yet, and likely will never become relevant enough to put INTO a story.

    Pearson is lying through her teeth about why the dragonslayers went through the wringer they did. But she's lying because she feels that as their Commanding Officer, what happened to them is her fault.

    she is militarily correct, not right.

    Project equalizer was an accident born of a few lucky wins on a routine Western Pacific deployment. there were a few mutants taken out by a small team of men, three relar grunt machinegunners and a battalion recon team (not to be confused with Marine Force Recon).

    The Corps recognized that these encounters had strained the marines involved and transferred them to M-SOC to develop and refine general anti-mutant tactics that could be taught to Marine Infantry en masse.

    What happened was someone with clearance bypassed pearson entirely and began cutting mission orders, sending them back into the fray against high-value mutant targets over and over. To include bypassing SOCOM channels for these special operations.

    most of the trauma held by worm, heckel, jeckel and hijacker is survivors guilt, pure and simple. they lived, but they buries too many marines on their missions.

    Pearson finally had to mind control entire sections of personnel staff and medically discharge them before the orders to deny them their discharges came through.

    Even so she was unable to track the orders back. So she has no idea who did this, who used her marines this way. so militarily, she is correct. its her fault.

    the other part is they were transferred to a unit full of mutants. after being sent out nonstop to kill people like your coworkers, how long would it take to strain the relationship? How long would you be able to look them in the eye?

    I know from dealing with veteran family members, once you are conditioned to see a group as an enemy, its incredibly hard to maintain your focus and stay within the integrated reality most western nations try to provide.

    And Pearson, being a psychic pushing the range of miranda, fubar and others got to feel all of the nightmare they had gone through, knowing that their orders as presented were to keep her out of the loop on their mission details.

    So she knows firsthand how that team has suffered. but there are limits to what even a powerful psi can find out, especially if she is scrupulous and does her best to respect the privacy and sanctity of other peoples' thoughts.

    A lot of the whys and hows and why pearson doesnt just TELL THEM will not and will never make sense to anyone who has not served in the military. It simply is. Just like pearson underestimated Mahren and whateley when she vehemently recommended he not be hired due to the high likelihood of him having a meltdown.
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by JG.
    6 years 6 months ago #24 by Valentine
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  • I figured that there was three main psychological problems. Survivors guilt being number one, there are too many dead Dragonslayers, for them not to have that. Second is how many similar to Rager's Night are there, non criminals that they had to stop to save lives? Third just from the stress of just super intense combat.

    If Pearson told them, likely nothing would stop them from getting revenge.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 6 months ago #25 by JG
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  • They would have to figure out who could have pulled it.

    while it is true only certain people have access, you'd be shocked at how long a paper chain for routed orders, even classified ones, can be.

    It gets WORSE if Branches are crossed.
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #26 by JG
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  • and now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Jericho's wardrobe
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by JG.
    6 years 6 months ago #27 by Sir Lee
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  • You know, if Pearson chose to confide the situation to, say, a certain age-regressed and sex-changed admiral... it's scary how much hacking power resides in Whateley. Between Hive, Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue, if something is online, they probably can trace it. Given Merry's technopathy, I wouldn't trust even air-gapped computers.

    (By the way, a while ago I figured that Ringo's codename is probably mispelled; shouldn't it be Ring0, like in "Ring Zero", which is a computer architecture term for the highest elevated privilege a program can run?)

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 months ago #28 by mhalpern
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  • Erianaiel wrote:

    mhalpern wrote: Not unhappy≠ happy, though as Diamondback noticed, she wasn't internally raging like normal after Dimes got to her, in addition many though not all of the actions of the Dragonslayer unit seem to be in the process of being declassified and they are even receiving pardons for some of their more gruesome actions. That isn't the kind of thing that happens when the brass has any intention of tying up loose ends.


    The dragonslayers lived for a long time with a delayed death sentance above their head and being denied the mental healthcare they desperately needed.
    Some of their story getting declassified is not going to lessen the damage that was done.

    And I do not believe that any of the dragonslayers (except probably one) is ready to forget or forgive themselves for what they did.. Caitlin most certainly is not.

    Before too long Caitlin will start building up that rage, as she has not learned to develop a normal coping mechanism (and no, by no stretch of imagination can the Outcast Corner be considered normal). Hopefully she now finally will allow herself to accept the professional help she is offered and she desperately needs

    It does mean no one will suddenly decide they are a security threat,which is one less thing to worry about

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #29 by mhalpern
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  • JG wrote: They would have to figure out who could have pulled it.

    while it is true only certain people have access, you'd be shocked at how long a paper chain for routed orders, even classified ones, can be.

    It gets WORSE if Branches are crossed.

    You'd have to look for motive, who felt threatened or thought they would get a promotion out of it, you don't try to burn out an elite unit for nothing, and desperation seems an unlikely motive.

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #30 by Anne
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    Erianaiel wrote:

    mhalpern wrote: Not unhappy≠ happy, though as Diamondback noticed, she wasn't internally raging like normal after Dimes got to her, in addition many though not all of the actions of the Dragonslayer unit seem to be in the process of being declassified and they are even receiving pardons for some of their more gruesome actions. That isn't the kind of thing that happens when the brass has any intention of tying up loose ends.


    The dragonslayers lived for a long time with a delayed death sentance above their head and being denied the mental healthcare they desperately needed.
    Some of their story getting declassified is not going to lessen the damage that was done.

    And I do not believe that any of the dragonslayers (except probably one) is ready to forget or forgive themselves for what they did.. Caitlin most certainly is not.

    Before too long Caitlin will start building up that rage, as she has not learned to develop a normal coping mechanism (and no, by no stretch of imagination can the Outcast Corner be considered normal). Hopefully she now finally will allow herself to accept the professional help she is offered and she desperately needs

    It does mean no one will suddenly decide they are a security threat,which is one less thing to worry about

    Are we absolutely certain that the person who managed to bypass the normal chain of command, who probably knew the identities of the Dragon Slayers will not decide that now that they are all at Whateley that they have not become an absolute threat to 'his'* existence.

    *Note: Me saying his in this case does not mean that I discount the possibility that the person who did this was female. I just use his in the generic sense that I wanted to shortcut the whole his or her thing.
    6 years 6 months ago #31 by null0trooper
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  • Sir Lee wrote: You know, if Pearson chose to confide the situation to, say, a certain age-regressed and sex-changed admiral... it's scary how much hacking power resides in Whateley. Between Hive, Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue, if something is online, they probably can trace it. Given Merry's technopathy, I wouldn't trust even air-gapped computers.


    As JG said: different branches.

    Even if different branches weren't involved, there's the question of whether retired Admiral Everheart, teaching in a civilian school, would be seen as having any need to know, whether she has the necessary level of clearance or not.

    Even then, don't think for a second that a US Navy Admiral would hand classified information over to civilians who don't answer to the DoD and don't have the training and clearance and established need to know. That's the stuff that makes for espionage and/or treason charges.


    Whateley Universe or not, it's very OOC.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #32 by mhalpern
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  • Anne wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Erianaiel wrote:

    mhalpern wrote: Not unhappy≠ happy, though as Diamondback noticed, she wasn't internally raging like normal after Dimes got to her, in addition many though not all of the actions of the Dragonslayer unit seem to be in the process of being declassified and they are even receiving pardons for some of their more gruesome actions. That isn't the kind of thing that happens when the brass has any intention of tying up loose ends.


    The dragonslayers lived for a long time with a delayed death sentance above their head and being denied the mental healthcare they desperately needed.
    Some of their story getting declassified is not going to lessen the damage that was done.

    And I do not believe that any of the dragonslayers (except probably one) is ready to forget or forgive themselves for what they did.. Caitlin most certainly is not.

    Before too long Caitlin will start building up that rage, as she has not learned to develop a normal coping mechanism (and no, by no stretch of imagination can the Outcast Corner be considered normal). Hopefully she now finally will allow herself to accept the professional help she is offered and she desperately needs

    It does mean no one will suddenly decide they are a security threat,which is one less thing to worry about

    Are we absolutely certain that the person who managed to bypass the normal chain of command, who probably knew the identities of the Dragon Slayers will not decide that now that they are all at Whateley that they have not become an absolute threat to 'his'* existence.

    *Note: Me saying his in this case does not mean that I discount the possibility that the person who did this was female. I just use his in the generic sense that I wanted to shortcut the whole his or her thing.

    It does mean that it will be harder for them to use official resources to do so, however going after Whateley or anyone there to quote S12 of RvB "is suicide and a bunch of puppies dying" The fact that they put a long paper trail between them and their actions shows they have some self preservation instincts,

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #33 by JG
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  • but yeah, that was a bit of background behind the scenes as it were. The thing is, people can be horrific assholes, and will use each other like a ratchet set to get whatever it is they want.

    Erik's father is that type of person. Natalie didn't realize that she hit the hammer right on the head when she called him a narcissist.

    But wounds can heal, scars can fade. And as to Erik's father? We shall see. But spoiler: there won't be reconciliation there. But there might not be vendetta either. I haven't decided yet.

    Besides, to a narcissist, the cruelest, most horrifically unimaginable thing possible is to be ignored, to be considered unimportant. Food for thought.

    But you never know. Natalie might actually drick out and shoot him or something

    :evil:
    6 years 6 months ago #34 by Valentine
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: You know, if Pearson chose to confide the situation to, say, a certain age-regressed and sex-changed admiral... it's scary how much hacking power resides in Whateley. Between Hive, Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue, if something is online, they probably can trace it. Given Merry's technopathy, I wouldn't trust even air-gapped computers.


    As JG said: different branches.

    Even if different branches weren't involved, there's the question of whether retired Admiral Everheart, teaching in a civilian school, would be seen as having any need to know, whether she has the necessary level of clearance or not.

    Even then, don't think for a second that a US Navy Admiral would hand classified information over to civilians who don't answer to the DoD and don't have the training and clearance and established need to know. That's the stuff that makes for espionage and/or treason charges.


    Whateley Universe or not, it's very OOC.


    There are some mitigating circumstances her for the Admiral and Dragonslayers. First Adm. Everhart was in command of these Marines at one point. Two, only Caitlin is a civilian, the others were reinstated and returned to their previous ranks. Three between Hive, Ringo, Cyberkitty, Hartford, and Whisper, those orders better not be stored anywhere on a computer.

    Imagine Seal Team 6 being given orders to kill binLaden, Kim in North Korea, the head of Iran's nuclear program, the Russian Commander in the Ukraine, some random kid in Virginia, Maduro in Venezuela, the heads of three drug cartels, all in a matter of months, all the orders bypassing their CO. The Dragonslayer's operation tempo was insane.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 6 months ago #35 by null0trooper
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  • Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue really are civilians, and they don't have military ranks to go back to.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #36 by Anne
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  • null0trooper wrote: Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue really are civilians, and they don't have military ranks to go back to.

    And that is the rub. I can't see Everhart getting them involved at all even if she were officially or unofficially involved. Now on the other hand, if General Pearson figures out who Everhart was, she might drop a hint in her ear to ask what Sam thought of the deployment tempo for the Dragon Slayers. If Hive gets curious she might check to see if there is an IG in either the Navy or the Marines or the DoD working on the issue. If not she might see if she can poke someone about the issue with an anonymous letter saying that she has just seen these items that were declassified and is curious as to what that person's thoughts on the issue are.
    The thing is that I doubt Sam was the commandant of the Seals program so even though she was probably a Rear Admiral (lower half) {If I recall Navy ranks correctly...} She may not have been considered much more than a very senior operative. Or commander of a single group rather than a part of the workings of the Naval bureaucracy as a whole.
    6 years 5 months ago #37 by joreymay
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  • null0trooper wrote: Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue really are civilians, and they don't have military ranks to go back to.


    I think you misread the earlier statement (as I did the first time I read it). It was not saying they were among the wronged service members. It was saying that if the rather unusual talent pool at Whateley chose to get involved in the matter (on behalf of those wronged service members), no records on any computer (anywhere) would be safe from them.
    6 years 5 months ago #38 by null0trooper
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  • joreymay wrote:

    null0trooper wrote: Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue really are civilians, and they don't have military ranks to go back to.


    I think you misread the earlier statement (as I did the first time I read it). It was not saying they were among the wronged service members. It was saying that if the rather unusual talent pool at Whateley chose to get involved in the matter (on behalf of those wronged service members), no records on any computer (anywhere) would be safe from them.


    No. In response to my post, Valentine was suggesting that Pearson or Everheart would automatically involve the Dragonslayers in the investigation even though they may not be trained for such investigations and are working as instructors and security guards at a civilian high school that also hosts active agents for criminal organizations and foreign powers.

    The idea that they would be stupid and reckless enough to leak that investigation to civilians outside the investigation - regardless of talent - is still OOC on the order of describing them as coming to work wearing bus driver blues.

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    6 years 5 months ago #39 by JG
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  • there's no reason for whateley to be involved.

    it did not happen to one of their instructors or personnel, while employed, on their watch.

    Neutrality means whateley is NEUTRAL.

    Hartford will go after that mystery on the 32nd day of nevervember. internal military issues are just that.
    6 years 5 months ago #40 by Valentine
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    joreymay wrote:

    null0trooper wrote: Hartford, Merry and Ring0/Blue really are civilians, and they don't have military ranks to go back to.


    I think you misread the earlier statement (as I did the first time I read it). It was not saying they were among the wronged service members. It was saying that if the rather unusual talent pool at Whateley chose to get involved in the matter (on behalf of those wronged service members), no records on any computer (anywhere) would be safe from them.


    No. In response to my post, Valentine was suggesting that Pearson or Everheart would automatically involve the Dragonslayers in the investigation even though they may not be trained for such investigations and are working as instructors and security guards at a civilian high school that also hosts active agents for criminal organizations and foreign powers.

    The idea that they would be stupid and reckless enough to leak that investigation to civilians outside the investigation - regardless of talent - is still OOC on the order of describing them as coming to work wearing bus driver blues.


    No, that is not what I said. I did not suggest that Dragonslayers become involved in the investigation. They themselves wouldn't get involved, because they don't know what to do, and they are all smart enough to know that. They do have access to Ms. Hartford, Ring0, Cyberkitty, Whisper, Hive, and the rest of Whateley. It would be possible for them to trade favors or "solids" to find out who was sending the orders. Then they would do what they are good at. Any "investigation" done by these people would be illegal.

    The Dragonslayers hate Pearson because they think she sent them out on all those missions, at least partially. If she told them that some mysterious REMF issued a bunch of the orders, they aren't going to care about any official investigation Pearson is conducting. They are going to use whatever assets they have access to, to find the REMF.

    Pearson isn't telling because she knows what their reaction would be. Any person she has recruited to help her find the REMF issuing the orders is likely well vetted. Pearson may or may not involve Hive at some point, I am not sure if Pearson knows who Hive is. Pearson's investigation is to, presumably, end up with her legally hammering the REMF. If that fails she might leak the info to Prison Bitch.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 5 months ago #41 by Cryptic
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  • Now i really wanna know more about Butcher's Row.

    Loved Saphire's family moment, and I wanna see the sisters come to the school.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    6 years 5 months ago #42 by null0trooper
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  • Cryptic wrote: Now i really wanna know more about Butcher's Row.


    Did you ever read Rose Bunny's micro-scene about finding Host pinned to a tree? ( here ) It might be kind of grimdark like that.

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    6 years 5 months ago #43 by Kettlekorn
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  • Yeah, my guess is that the MCO was caught vivisecting mutants, and maybe some other Dr. Mengele shit.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 5 months ago #44 by Anne
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: Yeah, my guess is that the MCO was caught vivisecting mutants, and maybe some other Dr. Mengele shit.

    One thing we know from Caitlin is that they were (and in certain cases {like Tennyo and if I'm not mistaken Fey... among others} currently) are issuing DFAs. A DFA is in essence a death sentence with no investigation as to cause of death since the person on whom it has been issued is considered a deadly force and can be killed for snarking at a police officer (okay maybe that is an exaggeration but not much of one...) or something even less overtly confrontational.
    So you could say that Caitlin pretty much has an intention to dismantle the MCO if she can.
    6 years 5 months ago #45 by Kettlekorn
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  • Yes, I am aware of the DFAs. What does that have to do with speculation about Butcher's Row? Those are part of an entirely separate (and apparently much tamer) atrocity.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 5 months ago #46 by Anne
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  • Well we also know (though the narrator is suspect) via Phase that some mutants are turned over to the Goodkinds for 'research', which as you can guess means pretty much yes Dr Mengele type of stuff such as vivisection... We know some of what Phase was put through, in essence testing to find the nature of his powers and that probably he was slated for vivisection if his brother Paul hadn't apparently sprung him. Which means that there is probably some what of a break between Paul and his parents at least in the case of Phase. What Butcher's Row might mean is that the MCO was doing some of this in house rather than farming it out to the Goodkinds.
    6 years 5 months ago #47 by null0trooper
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: Yes, I am aware of the DFAs. What does that have to do with speculation about Butcher's Row? Those are part of an entirely separate (and apparently much tamer) atrocity.


    IIRC, it was before Caitlin's MID interview ("Call of Thunder") that Butcher's Row was first mentioned.

    After the DFA, the MCO's behavior w/r/t placing red-letter death warrants on MIDs issued to interesting or inconvenient minors with no priors suggests to Eldritch that the bonesaw boys were back in town and setting up shop.

    This was Dog #4 (sicced on the MCO):

    Caitlin pulled out a piece of paper and unfolded it carefully.  The paper was blank, but she wanted to make it look like she was an actual messenger.  “First message, M-SOC Naval, whoever is in command, Warning Alert, code Bravo-Seven-Hijacker.  Delta Sierra, SOC.  The MCO is issuing DFA’s to minor citizens of the USA, Whateley Academy students have been targeted, very likely others as well.  Butcher’s Row is starting again.”
    “How do you know authentication codes?  How did you know how to find me?”
    Caitlin grinned.  “Look lady, I don’t know what the hell this is all about, I’m just following instructions left in Erik Mahren’s last will and testament.”


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    6 years 5 months ago #48 by Sir Lee
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  • More precisely, after being issued a MID with a DFA Caitlin realized that the MCO was again shamelessly abusing the civil rights of mutants, and induced that it would eventually lead to another Butcher's Row.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 5 months ago #49 by JG
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  • the DFA is an entirely separate issue
    6 years 5 months ago #50 by Erianaiel
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  • Kettlekorn wrote: Yes, I am aware of the DFAs. What does that have to do with speculation about Butcher's Row? Those are part of an entirely separate (and apparently much tamer) atrocity.


    We don't actually know what Butcher's Row was, nor do we know anything about the scale. Other than that it involved murdering mutant children. Whether or not that also included putting DFA tags on the MID of minors also is unanswerable at this time.

    We have some origin stories that suggest that the MCO had, and has, secret extermination camps where mutant minors are abducted to for experimentation and execution. But this is mostly assumptions by the mutant community, not hard fact. The stories where it is treated as fact are, I think, non-canon.

    Whether or not this is what Butcher's Row was remains to be revealed. If that ever happens. Noodle incidents (the trope that is, not the Whateley one) tend to work better if they never get revealed no matter how much the fans beg :)

    And after all, Butcher's Row can refer to a place, a code name for a program or a process (which would be cynical to an unparallelled degree).

    The bigger question than what exactly Butcher's Row as, I think, is how is the MCO allowed to still exist and operate in the USA (and other civilised countries) when it is known, and apparently there is hard evidence available to the USA military, that the organisation engaged in genocide and / or ethnic cleansing.
    6 years 5 months ago #51 by JG
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  • It is the code name attached to the incident, because of a comment by Jeckel was evocative, apt and conveyed the gravity of the incident.

    The reason they are still allowed to exist?

    Entirely politics. Because of reasons that the army and air force disagree with the Navy and Marines on. There's a long-standing argument there, and until it resolves, or a president/congress override the orders?

    They sit on it.

    Doesn't mean that the US military never expressed its displeasure with the situation. The MCO had a REALLY rough year that had nothing to do with an uptick in mutant violence worldwide.

    Its also the reason the military has MMID, and the US government reserves sole right of arrest and prosecution of said MMID holders. Legally, the MCO must call MPs if they pick up an MMID holder for any reason, and turn all evidence to federal law enforcement.

    The MCO doesnt like it when MMID holders go missing. The military and DPA dont ask them if they're holding the personnel. They simply go in and remove any mutant in the cells anywhere in reach of the base, no matter what the reason they are there for ID and processing, just in case.

    Its not a common occurrance... but it has happened on very rare occasions, and genuine supervillains generally find the US military extremely unpleasant to have to deal with on any level, for any reason that doesnt involve them holding the upper hand.

    And since the MCO is an international law enforcement, not US, the MCO can't legally refuse to remand any super powered or baseline individual to the custody of any sworn law enforcement officer in the US.

    the problem is most law enforcement isnt equipped to handle them, or they are MCO fanboys.

    OR... worst of all? Almost no one knows this little caveat. Even most cops do not know this. Not that most cops would, if only for safety reasons.

    Because legally it is your responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is no excuse to escape prosecution, but that coin flips fully to the other side. You cannot reasonably defend yourself if you do not know your rights.

    How many people actually KNOW what their rights are?
    6 years 5 months ago #52 by Anne
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  • I did not mean that the DFAs that the MCO was issuing were part of Butcher's Row, so much as a symptom of the attitude that would allow such a thing to happen.
    Not mind that a DFA tag would not make the whole idea of 'Butcher's Row' or some other such evil much easier to do, after all, if you manage to knock someone who has a DFA on their MID unconscious, just tell the local authorities that the person is dead, show the DFA card for them and walah! you now have a living body to experiment on that no one is going to ask uncomfortable questions about. Now I doubt that is the method by which they got the majority of their subjects, indeed I'd guess that the majority of their subjects are 'runaways' or other kids that they take from the cops as the 'agency that deals with mutants', and the cops are very busy not knowing what the MCO is actually doing with those kids, 'cause if they knew and had any moral objections, no matter how slight they would have to start to do something (and that might make them end up in one of those black holes where people enter but never leave) about what they knew....
    6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #53 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Anne wrote: ...if you manage to knock someone who has a DFA on their MID unconscious, just tell the local authorities that the person is dead, show the DFA card for them and walah! you now have a living body to experiment on that no one is going to ask uncomfortable questions about.


    Bwahahaha. Ahem, no. Let's examine that just a bit closer...

    "Police! Hands up! Don't move!"

    "Ollie ollie oxen free! See, this guy has a DFA and I killed him! So, no need for CSI guys, no, no, don't check for a pulse! Trust me! This suckers dead. In fact, ya know what? Don't even call the coroner! I'm headed that way, I'll just run this corpse over there and...

    "I said Don't move!"

    "TASER! TASER! TASER!"

    "Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!"

    Anne wrote: Now I doubt that is the method by which they got the majority of their subjects...


    Yeah, understatement, but yeah...

    :woohoo: :whistle: :roflmao:

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    Last Edit: 6 years 5 months ago by E. E. Nalley. Reason: emojis!
    6 years 5 months ago #54 by Katssun
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  • JG wrote: Its also the reason the military has MMID, and the US government reserves sole right of arrest and prosecution of said MMID holders. Legally, the MCO must call MPs if they pick up an MMID holder for any reason, and turn all evidence to federal law enforcement.

    The MCO doesnt like it when MMID holders go missing. The military and DPA dont ask them if they're holding the personnel. They simply go in and remove any mutant in the cells anywhere in reach of the base, no matter what the reason they are there for ID and processing, just in case.

    Absinthe hasn't fully grasped how lucky she is right now, does she? Her father got her an MMID, and partially explained that it just keeps most of the information classified.

    All the benefits, and very few of the requirements like Whisper has.
    6 years 5 months ago #55 by Anne
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  • Katssun wrote:

    JG wrote: Its also the reason the military has MMID, and the US government reserves sole right of arrest and prosecution of said MMID holders. Legally, the MCO must call MPs if they pick up an MMID holder for any reason, and turn all evidence to federal law enforcement.

    The MCO doesnt like it when MMID holders go missing. The military and DPA dont ask them if they're holding the personnel. They simply go in and remove any mutant in the cells anywhere in reach of the base, no matter what the reason they are there for ID and processing, just in case.

    Absinthe hasn't fully grasped how lucky she is right now, does she? Her father got her an MMID, and partially explained that it just keeps most of the information classified.

    All the benefits, and very few of the requirements like Whisper has.

    No Absinthe has not really realized just how much her father protected her with that move. If you were in a position to protect your kid(s) like that wouldn't you?
    Absinthe also doesn't really quite get that there is a good deal of power in knowing the rules, both as they apply to you but also as they apply to any govt (or NGO in the case of the MCO) agency or *especially police* you may have to deal with!
    6 years 5 months ago #56 by Kettlekorn
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  • Anne wrote: Absinthe also doesn't really quite get that there is a good deal of power in knowing the rules, both as they apply to you but also as they apply to any govt (or NGO in the case of the MCO) agency or *especially police* you may have to deal with!

    That was true at the beginning, but realizing the value in understanding and manipulating the rules has been one of the main themes of her story. She definitely gets it at this point.

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    6 years 5 months ago #57 by JG
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  • in this case just knowing the rules is key. Loophole is actually the most savvy about what the MCO can and cannot do.

    Caitlin cannot read off the rules chapter and verse, but she knows when the fight needs to start.
    5 years 10 months ago - 5 years 10 months ago #58 by Malady
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  • Regarding the Scale family...

    IIRC, all the description we've got, for the noodles, is "mini-Diamondbacks", with appropriate colors, given their names...

    So, they still have the flesh-tone scales on their faces?

    And so does their mother, Ebon Scale? Or by "covered in black scales", you actually mean, fully covered?

    ----

    And, yes, you do, given Sapphire's picture...

    And I assume the noodles should be fully covered, too?
    Last Edit: 5 years 10 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 1 month ago #59 by DanZilla
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  • A New Installment is available called "The Garden of Good and Evil: Song of the Dreamer - A New Beginning"
    5 years 1 month ago #60 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will be details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.

    The Garden of Good and Evil: Song of the Dreamer-New Beginnings comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    5 years 1 month ago #61 by null0trooper
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  • Dreamer wrote: Imperious, you just made top of the list of scum who needs taken down with that crack about the Outcast Corner. Going after Jericho for standing up to you in the Crystal Hall, you might as well have just signed your own death sentence, idiot.


    Nah. He just cemented his existing position in the top ten. His pride, prejudices, and more pride ensures that he'll either fail to seek out allies outside his own little sphere, or find a way to alienate any that might have stood with him. I don't picture either Eliza or Athena wasting their time on convincing him to do otherwise (Goddess of Wisdom, not of Lost Causes)

    Devisor Labs

    Custom frame for each unit.


    If the student can't engineer the armor frame, they don't need to be playing with power armor, do they?

    *faceplams* Noms, why you have to mess with Jericho's workshop space by rearranging his tools just for fun?


    Because she can!

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    5 years 1 month ago #62 by mhalpern
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  • So with Natalie Mahren moving nearby, does this mean we get to meet Cally soon?

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    5 years 1 month ago #63 by Cryptic
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  • Well, that explains a lot about why Justicar and Co put up with Jason.

    Adam and Opal gets an Awwww so cute!. Sorry Dawn, but I'm shipping those two over you and Adam in G2.

    And poor Zack. I really hope he doesn't become a living sound grenade.

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    5 years 1 month ago #64 by marie7342231
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  • Great addition to the tale. Thanks JG. I enjoyed seeing the New Olympians getting back into the mix. Old nemeses never stay down. Anticipating the can of whoopass Caitlin will bust out when it all goes down. Yes, it may be awhile, but it's coming. The Artificer will get her revenge on the old gods.
    5 years 1 month ago #65 by Cryptic
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  • marie7342231 wrote: Yes, it may be awhile, but it's coming. The Artificer will get her revenge on the old gods.


    Oh this gives me ideas for my Elseworlds Lympians. The OG Hekate threw a wrench into Big Z's plans, and instead of the big 12 being reborn, either 12 minor Gods are reborn or some of the 12, the less dickish of the lot, are rebon, Not Z or Hera, with minor Gods taking their places.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    5 years 1 month ago #66 by mhalpern
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  • Cryptic wrote:

    marie7342231 wrote: Yes, it may be awhile, but it's coming. The Artificer will get her revenge on the old gods.


    Oh this gives me ideas for my Elseworlds Lympians. The OG Hekate threw a wrench into Big Z's plans, and instead of the big 12 being reborn, either 12 minor Gods are reborn or some of the 12, the less dickish of the lot, are rebon, Not Z or Hera, with minor Gods taking their places.


    or the major god that DIDN'T get a seat on mnt Olympus, Hades, THAT would be interesting to say the least...

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    5 years 1 month ago #67 by Cryptic
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    Cryptic wrote:

    marie7342231 wrote: Yes, it may be awhile, but it's coming. The Artificer will get her revenge on the old gods.


    Oh this gives me ideas for my Elseworlds Lympians. The OG Hekate threw a wrench into Big Z's plans, and instead of the big 12 being reborn, either 12 minor Gods are reborn or some of the 12, the less dickish of the lot, are rebon, Not Z or Hera, with minor Gods taking their places.


    or the major god that DIDN'T get a seat on mnt Olympus, Hades, THAT would be interesting to say the least...

    Hee, interesting idea.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    5 years 1 month ago #68 by mhalpern
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  • Cryptic wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Cryptic wrote:

    marie7342231 wrote: Yes, it may be awhile, but it's coming. The Artificer will get her revenge on the old gods.


    Oh this gives me ideas for my Elseworlds Lympians. The OG Hekate threw a wrench into Big Z's plans, and instead of the big 12 being reborn, either 12 minor Gods are reborn or some of the 12, the less dickish of the lot, are rebon, Not Z or Hera, with minor Gods taking their places.


    or the major god that DIDN'T get a seat on mnt Olympus, Hades, THAT would be interesting to say the least...

    Hee, interesting idea.


    Remember Hades is also the god of wealth, and depending on interpretations that makes him at least related to all forms of wealth that come out of the ground, and would give him power over, for example the god of wine...

    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
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