Question Jadis

What's not to like?

Intelligent, literate, pragmatic, self-confident, and justifiably paranoid. Not just the daughter of A Mad Scientist, but the daughter of one of THE Mad Scientists.

Like i said, what's not to like?

A chewy character who is handling the circumstances that she has found herself in with a surprising degree of success.

Something about this character i've chewing over..

She has a devil bound into an implant, that was put there by her father. Every time she tries to ask Dr. Dad about it, he changes the subject.

It's never directly stated, but it also seems to give her protection from being read by PSI's, as the signal's from Jadis are swamped by the effect of the devil, as well as shaping her natural ability with her PK shell.

After she was hit with one of Seraphim's angels, the devil was knocked unconcious, which is why she was able to change the form of her PK shell.

Did the Dream Team, or any other character with PSI try to scan her while her bound devil was out?

If so, what did they find?

A small correction: she has a devil bound into her, AND she has implants of unknown nature. It's conjectured, but NOT certain that the two things are related.

Jadis really needs someone to pick up the task of writing her POV. A character that already has a fair depth to them deserves to be developed fully.

When will she find out who her mom really is?
Will daddy ever tell her what the devil and implant are about?
Will she ever find a boyfriend?
Will she realize her dream of becoming a Hero(ine), losing the Bad Seed negativity?

Well, Jadis and the other Bad Seeds all belong to Bek, and Bek is still around and writing (even if she hasn't been quite as prolific as Elrod, EE, and Morpheus). I'd say it's a fair assumption that Bek still has plenty more ideas in the works for Jadis, including answering some of those questions perhaps.

Dawnfyre wrote: Jadis really needs someone to pick up the task of writing her POV. A character that already has a fair depth to them deserves to be developed fully.

When will she find out who her mom really is?
Will daddy ever tell her what the devil and implant are about?
Will she ever find a boyfriend?
Will she realize her dream of becoming a Hero(ine), losing the Bad Seed negativity?

Will she eventually go the plastic surgery route? (Actually I doubt it)
Will she ever get the Devil removed from her, and if so will the exemplar fairy strike?
Will she go into politics? Could you imagine Jadis as her fathers ambassador to the UN?

Will she end up leading the Cadet Crusaders?
Actually that one sounds interesting. Hmmm.

I think that it's canon that she would like to be a lawyer. But being a litigator is out of question for her; being the not-quite-beautiful daughter of a major supervillain, her mere presence in a courtroom would indispose the jury against her client.

However, contract law and similar boardroom-based parts of the law practice might be a good fit for her. Having a "don't you dare fuck with me" reputation inherited from her father might even be helpful.

I don't believe her father runs a country, that is Jobe. Also I believe her father is a baseline, and not a "mad scientist."

Valentine wrote: I don't believe her father runs a country, that is Jobe. Also I believe her father is a baseline, and not a "mad scientist."

I don't think it's confirmed one way or another whether her father is a highly intelligent baseline or a mutant. Having two mutant children speaks against it, I think, but it's hard to know for sure in a world that contains both baseline geniuses and mutant geniuses.

Whether you are a mad scientist has absolutely nothing to do with your status as a mutant or baseline.

Canon writers have said that it is unknown in the stories what he is. So he could be a mutant, a genius or the weird name they give to obsessive mad scientists who are still baseline.

Domoviye wrote: the weird name they give to obsessive mad scientists who are still baseline.

Schimmelhorn Engineer. It is one of my favorite WU phrases.

But what I was trying to get at is that mad science doesn't need to be based on warping the laws of reality; it just has to be mad enough. Real-world Tesla was a mad scientist, and I say that without buying into into any of the conspiracy nonsense.

Valentine wrote: I don't believe her father runs a country, that is Jobe. Also I believe her father is a baseline, and not a "mad scientist."

Her father isn't a mad scientist, he just plays one in real life.

Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.
so while it is never specified, story elements support him being a mutant, not a baseline.

Dawnfyre wrote: Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.
so while it is never specified, story elements support him being a mutant, not a baseline.

He could just be a baseline mage.

Dawnfyre wrote: Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.

Do we actually know that he personally conducted the binding? He's perfectly willing to wheel and deal among his peers. I've always assumed he commissioned Devilmaster do it.

Dawnfyre wrote: Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.
so while it is never specified, story elements support him being a mutant, not a baseline.

The best evidence we have is that Green Witch believes that he isn't a mutant, just a supergenius.

Actually, given SPECTRUM's record dealing with Mutants (or not) I would tend to view the Green Witch thinking Dr. Diabolik not being a mutant as a reason to think that he was.

Also, given that both Jadis and Mal are mutants, I would tend to think that at least one of their parents would need to be a mutant, although I wouldn't put it past the good doctor to have taken steps to ensure his kids would be mutants.

Isodecan wrote: Actually, given SPECTRUM's record dealing with Mutants (or not) I would tend to view the Green Witch thinking Dr. Diabolik not being a mutant as a reason to think that he was.

Also, given that both Jadis and Mal are mutants, I would tend to think that at least one of their parents would need to be a mutant, although I wouldn't put it past the good doctor to have taken steps to ensure his kids would be mutants.

Except that the H1! Rep doesn't contradict her.

Kettlekorn wrote:

Dawnfyre wrote: Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.

Do we actually know that he personally conducted the binding? He's perfectly willing to wheel and deal among his peers. I've always assumed he commissioned Devilmaster do it.

Although he is definitely not father of the year material, just that he would bind a devil into one of his children, I doubt he would trust another super villain to do so. That would be putting the life of your child in their hands.

I thought it was said somewhere that Devil Master did the binding.

Dawnfyre wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

Dawnfyre wrote: Dr. Diabolik is an A listed super villain, he bound a devil into his daughter Jadis, that says mage of some level.

Do we actually know that he personally conducted the binding? He's perfectly willing to wheel and deal among his peers. I've always assumed he commissioned Devilmaster do it.

Although he is definitely not father of the year material, just that he would bind a devil into one of his children, I doubt he would trust another super villain to do so. That would be putting the life of your child in their hands.

I would sooner trust even a shady doctor to perform heart surgery on a loved one than I would myself. I am fairly intelligent and skilled in a number of areas, but I know nothing of surgery. While I could certainly learn it, that's not a terribly practical thing to do in most cases.

We've seen no indication that Dr. Diabolik knows magic, and we know that magic is hard and that dealing with spirits is dangerous. It would be much more reasonable for him to make an arrangement with a professional.

And as long as the villain is professional, you don't have to openly threaten his family with a painful death should he mess up. It will be understood and silently agreed upon when accepting the contract and the large payment or favour.

As Jadis said in the first of the Drow stories, Dr' Diabolik's prmary goal is S.M.I.L.E., and he's willing to trade favours with other super-villains in order to further those goals.

So he's already in the habit of trading favours.

Also Jadis is around one year older than Devilmaster's daughter, Lindsey, as they're in different years. Both Devilmaster and Dr. Diabolik would both have been watching how Whateley was developing, as they would both have been thinking about how to protect their children.

Mutual aid-defence pacts would be very sensible, especially as they have very different fields of speciality when it comes to what they do.

---

In the story about Wicked, Jadis and Lady Astarte discuss Dr. Dad's attitude towards magic, so he's a mad scientist who agree's that it works.

Add in his personal agenda, and (from the few glimpses we have seen) his pragmatic nature, then i think he'd go along with the attitude that if it works, then it's not stupid. How it works, he'll study later, but if it works, he'll use it.

We need a discussion thread about Dr. Diabolik...

She could also do criminal defense. What super-villain wouldn't trust her?
And worrying about the jury, if the defendant is a super-villain it really shouldn't matter.

Well, lets see.

Immediate worries about jury tampering. Not just her, of course, never Jadis. But would her father tamper with a jury just so his little girl can win?
Witness tampering, the same problem as above.

Let alone the problems of juror's/witnesses knowing that she can turn into an 8' tall demon.
Do you think a witness is going to risk that under cross?

It must be bad enough actually trying senior mafiosi in the real world, let alone a super villain in the Whateleyverse when their lawyer is the daughter of a super villain.

No, any aspect of Law that puts her in a court with juror's/witnesses is probably a non-starter.

*giggle*

Corporate Lawyer. Imagine a hostile corporate takeover and Jadis walks into the conference room as part of the legal team for the victim

I was thinking Insurance Salesman. Who could say no when their business partners show prospective clients if they say 'No."

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: *giggle*

Corporate Lawyer. Imagine a hostile corporate takeover and Jadis walks into the conference room as part of the legal team for the victim

I could see Ayla hiring Jadis for this. that would properly terrify everyone on the other side. (And before you say Ayla wouldn't go for nepotism, I agree. But I'll be damned if Jadis isn't on the top of her game by the time she finishes college.)

Also, on a related topic, Are Jadis and Malachi full or half siblings? We all know about Dr. D, but could it be possible that they have different mothers?

Ayla goes for nepotism as long as the person is competent. Given a choice between Jadis and an equally skilled but unknown person, Ayla would pick Jadis.

Blue Moose wrote: Also, on a related topic, Are Jadis and Malachi full or half siblings? We all know about Dr. D, but could it be possible that they have different mothers?

Neither Jadis nor Malachi know who their mothers are. The could easily have the same mother or different mothers.

It's only a matter of trust that Dr. Dad is actually their father.

Jadis may just be a clone of the White Witch, with the bonded devil being their to twist her BIT to look more like Dr. D.

Just realized something from rereading the Breakfast Brawl story; The bound Devil makes Jadis a Faux-Avatar after a fashion in that it mimics some of the benefits an Avatar/Spirit bounding usually produce; the harder to read mind the host getting something (In this case the beasty appearance to the PK field)...

Makes me think Lindsey's father had a hand in making Jadis what she is.

Cryptic wrote: Just realized something from rereading the Breakfast Brawl story; The bound Devil makes Jadis a Faux-Avatar after a fashion in that it mimics some of the benefits an Avatar/Spirit bounding usually produce; the harder to read mind the host getting something (In this case the beasty appearance to the PK field)...

Makes me think Lindsey's father had a hand in making Jadis what she is.

Alternate conclusion: Dr. Dad is involved in the Avatar transference project.

Jadis, codename "Frost", suspected daughter of the White Witch.

Just how much mileage is left on this Narnia theme, anyway?

Ametros wrote: Jadis, codename "Frost", suspected daughter of the White Witch.

Just how much mileage is left on this Narnia theme, anyway?

Loads

We haven't even started on the beaver jokes yet...

What? Like "Jake Frost?, "Frosty the Snowman", and off course all the nasty girls "Well, that's why you never have a boyfriend, even the gentlemen like to believe eventually it's going to happen"

I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

elrodw wrote: Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.

You mean to tell me that Bek is the one showing restraint and sanity? Consider me concerned (and eager).

Ametros wrote: Jadis, codename "Frost", suspected daughter of the White Witch.

Just how much mileage is left on this Narnia theme, anyway?

Wait until Jadis sets up a portal network!

Edit. And a mountain lion avatar is coming to Whateley soon, gender upon arrival is currently undetermined, but the spirit is most definitely female, still follows the theme somewhat...

Wasn't the wardrobe obligatory already done in like the very first story where she speculated about the White Witch being her mother?

elrodw wrote: I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

mhalpern wrote:

elrodw wrote: I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

Let me stir the pot and say that it almost certainly does not center around Danny in any way, shape, or form.

elrodw wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

elrodw wrote: I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

Let me stir the pot and say that it almost certainly does not center around Danny in any way, shape, or form.

I see, it could make an interesting triangle with a confused Danny... though I am conflicted, would they be lovers or rivals in my mind... Well time will tell how things go in cannon...


For a strange reason the question "why not both?" is being asked in my head...

elrodw wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

elrodw wrote: I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

Let me stir the pot and say that it almost certainly does not center around Danny in any way, shape, or form.

Translation: "I hadn't thought of that and you've piqued the interest of my muse. I am awaiting developments."

Phoenix Spiritus wrote:

elrodw wrote:

mhalpern wrote: OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

Let me stir the pot and say that it almost certainly does not center around Danny in any way, shape, or form.

Translation: "I hadn't thought of that and you've piqued the interest of my muse. I am awaiting developments."

Drat! You noticed that I left myself wiggle room!

Phoenix Spiritus wrote:

elrodw wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

elrodw wrote: I have plans for Jadis for the fall term

Bek knows about them, too, and has agreed to play along, as long as I don't get TOO crazy.
Y'all are going to love it!

OK now I am convinced that you are going to use Danny as the stand in for "Aslan" to follow the Narnia theme in some evil way.. Maybe in a kinky way.

Let me stir the pot and say that it almost certainly does not center around Danny in any way, shape, or form.

Translation: "I hadn't thought of that and you've piqued the interest of my muse. I am awaiting developments."

Totally didn't see the Narnia stuff... *facepalm?* ... Did anyone bring it up in-story? Perhaps TLW? Or am I imagining things?

Jadis is the name of the White Witch, and it isn't that common...

Hmm... What about the Pevensies? I was like. "Three Little Witches! 'Cause they're kids" but the distributions are all wrong. Pevensies are two guys, two girls. And there are only Three Little Witches... But then I was like, "Add Mega-boy!" and now I'm going, "But you can mtf one of the Witches"... ... This reference isn't working? ... Weird thing is that I can think up a Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe plot.





And then there's Winter ... How does/would she play into all the Narnia stuff? Jadis doesn't have any weather magic...

You know, the idea of them getting trapped in hulcinaction spell is good.

Hmm, Clover as Lucy has some wonderful paralleled here. Clover isn't a "High School" girl, so she's feeling "left out" as Pally, Abra and Danny revel in their "High School" status over her "middle school" one. Left alone she turns to books, starts reading the Narnia stories, the Magician's Nephew, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. She becomes dangerously obsessed with Jadis and her wardrobe, the other three rush to head her off.

Hmm, yes, I can work with this ...

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: You know, the idea of them getting trapped in hulcinaction spell is good.

Hmm, Clover as Lucy has some wonderful paralleled here. Clover isn't a "High School" girl, so she's feeling "left out" as Pally, Abra and Danny revel in their "High School" status over her "middle school" one. Left alone she turns to books, starts reading the Narnia stories, the Magician's Nephew, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. She becomes dangerously obsessed with Jadis and her wardrobe, the other three rush to head her off.

Hmm, yes, I can work with this ...

I think I forgot to mention that the TLW do already think of Jadis as an Evil Witch, as seen in their Halloween story or something, IIRC. ... Nvm, it seems I might be wrong... They might have thought that of Hekate... Or I'm totally wrong somewhere...

Oh! Did you read/re-read The Three Little Witches ? 'Cause it sounds like you did... Or your memory's better than mine...

The TLW do something that causes themselves and Jadis to be trapped in Danny's dreamspace to find that it is under attack by less than pleasant entities

To add to that, TLW think that the entities are Jadis' fault, initially..

I even have a title, "The Three Little Witches, Jadis and the Dreamspace"

Possibly Impossible Speculation:

Jadis is the White Witch. She gets sent back in time at some point and becomes the White Witch. ... Did I, or someone else, already speculate this?

Mythos could pull Future Fey and Future Chaka back in time, and their timespan was longer/as long as the Gen1, Gen2 gap of 10 years... So why not more Mythos? ... Or something...

When Jadis's Demon Devil got knocked out, this happened:

Somewhere over a thousand miles away, a pair of golden eyes snapped wide open, torn from task by a sudden sensing. A sensing as of something precious yet somehow unknown or forgotten suddenly made itself known. Yet, now that she realized it, it grew maddeningly faint. She had no context, no basis for it, and the sweet, desperate need faded into a bittersweet memory. She reached out and gathered only wisps of familiarity which melted in her grasp, leaving only a need to know, to understand.

Discuss? Possibly for a second time?

Also, WMG: Jadis's demon devil is connected to Thulia and her family... 'Cause... Do they look similar? ... And WMG... And we don't know what Class her Devil is, do we? ... Are all devils Class 3?

A devil is a one of a general class of malevolent magical being that is native to this plane of existence.

Malady wrote: When Jadis's Demon Devil got knocked out, this happened:

Somewhere over a thousand miles away, a pair of golden eyes snapped wide open, torn from task by a sudden sensing. A sensing as of something precious yet somehow unknown or forgotten suddenly made itself known. Yet, now that she realized it, it grew maddeningly faint. She had no context, no basis for it, and the sweet, desperate need faded into a bittersweet memory. She reached out and gathered only wisps of familiarity which melted in her grasp, leaving only a need to know, to understand.

Discuss? Possibly for a second time?

Also, WMG: Jadis's demon devil is connected to Thulia and her family... 'Cause... Do they look similar? ... And WMG... And we don't know what Class her Devil is, do we? ... Are all devils Class 3?

A devil is a one of a general class of malevolent magical being that is native to this plane of existence.

Thulia isn't a devil.

Hmm... I wonder if Jadis's cybernetic neuro-implant is intelligence-enhancing in some way... But, no reason why her intellect can't be all-natural, like Ayla's is? ... And that's assuming that Ayla's intelligence is all-natural in the first place... Mmm...

Well, she IS the daughter of a very intelligent scientist... so between genetics and being raised in an environment that values intelligence, it's quite possibly that she came into it honestly.

I believe that she is also an Exemplar and has the Mental part of it, not so much the body part.

Do we have any hints of any particular people with the last name of Frost who Jadis might get the name from? How about that Ice Villain that was all hot for her for a few days?

I mean, Jadis seems to generally have a really weird encounter rate with Ice, so I guess the frost name makes sense, but at the same time, I can't think of why it actually does and that greatly annoys me. I simply must have answers... so does anybody have any clues?

It's very clear where her given name comes from, as well as why she would stop using the Diabolik name and switch to Frost, from the final scene of No Beast So Fierce.

Not going to post the text here if you haven't read it recently.

Katssun wrote: It's very clear where her given name comes from, as well as why she would stop using the Diabolik name and switch to Frost, from the final scene of No Beast So Fierce.

Not going to post the text here if you haven't read it recently.

Ya know that really should have been obvious to me? But it wasn't. Thanks XD. Wait... does that mean it's confirmed, or just that she changed her name to avoid a few of the usual hurdles and picked Frost because she's STILL secretly hoping her mother is the White Witch?

Iwasforger03 wrote:

Katssun wrote: It's very clear where her given name comes from, as well as why she would stop using the Diabolik name and switch to Frost, from the final scene of No Beast So Fierce.

Not going to post the text here if you haven't read it recently.

Ya know that really should have been obvious to me? But it wasn't. Thanks XD. Wait... does that mean it's confirmed, or just that she changed her name to avoid a few of the usual hurdles and picked Frost because she's STILL secretly hoping her mother is the White Witch?

We don't know yet.

While we can speculate, the Canon Cabal hasn't yet released the story. (That is, if the story has been written yet...)

While the White Witch is the obvious thought, we don't know how things are going with Jadis.

For example, it could be her using a name-change as a part of defining herself as being her own person, and not just an adjunct of Dr. Dad.

We've already seen the start of this process in "Saks And Violence" where she was dealing with the regulars of SuperBad, as an "Director" in her own right.

A change of name would be a signal that she isn't going to hide behind her father's rep, but would be standing on her own feet.

This would be a great "Coming-Of-Age" story...

I think it goes beyond "striking out as her own person" and "disassociating herself from Dr. Diabolik for PR reasons." The way Jadis reacts to the name Diabolik in 2016, something happened to drive a deep wedge between her and her father. A few possibilities come to mind...
- Jadis finally discovered why he implanted a devil in her, and it was... not good.
- Jadis finally discovered why he implanted stuff in her brain, and it was... not good.
- Jadis finally obtained evidence on who is her mother and how exactly she came to be born (or how Mal came to be born, for that matter), and it was a very ugly, indefensable story.
- Something Dr. Dad did harmed/killed somebody Jadis really liked, such as Mal, Ayla, Nacht or the Diabolik Manor staff.
- All of the above.

Sir Lee wrote: I think it goes beyond "striking out as her own person" and "disassociating herself from Dr. Diabolik for PR reasons." The way Jadis reacts to the name Diabolik in 2016, something happened to drive a deep wedge between her and her father. A few possibilities come to mind...
- Jadis finally discovered why he implanted a devil in her, and it was... not good.
- Jadis finally discovered why he implanted stuff in her brain, and it was... not good.
- Jadis finally obtained evidence on who is her mother and how exactly she came to be born (or how Mal came to be born, for that matter), and it was a very ugly, indefensable story.
- Something Dr. Dad did harmed/killed somebody Jadis really liked, such as Mal, Ayla, Nacht or the Diabolik Manor staff.
- All of the above.

Or:
Jadis was really swept away by some guy, and he was charming and loving, until he found out that she was the Daughter of Diabolik, at which point he ran off, leaving her totally heartbroken. To prevent such a thing from ever happening again, she changed her name and is disassociated from Dr. Dad, possibly with hope that her Prince Charming might come back to her.....

Or it's something else that Bek has planned

Katssun wrote: It's very clear where her given name comes from, as well as why she would stop using the Diabolik name and switch to Frost, from the final scene of No Beast So Fierce.

That itself is a bit of misdirection that Dr. Dad and (Denver's) White Witch cooked up to cover for the fact that they both got slammin' drunk on a double date, and how was Dr. Diabolik supposed to know that Ithaqua was literally gender fluid? Everyone else who was there (and admits to it) is still drawing a blank for the fourth hand at that bridge table, so the world may never know.

null0trooper wrote:

Katssun wrote: It's very clear where her given name comes from, as well as why she would stop using the Diabolik name and switch to Frost, from the final scene of No Beast So Fierce.

That itself is a bit of misdirection that Dr. Dad and (Denver's) White Witch cooked up to cover for the fact that they both got slammin' drunk on a double date, and how was Dr. Diabolik supposed to know that Ithaqua was literally gender fluid? Everyone else who was there (and admits to it) is still drawing a blank for the fourth hand at that bridge table, so the world may never know.

But as far as we've been told, Jadis and Mal aren't half-siblings, they're full siblings. They're only a year apart, and the White Witch was missing for two years.

Jadis probably was the result of an astonishingly charming Dr. Dad's random meet-cute with the White Witch, but Mal is probably the result of..."Hey Giz, lemme borrow that brain-scrambler devise you made!"

That's a Charming thought.

Also Elrod, thanks so much for your help, really appreciate it.

Sir Lee - Good speculations, good reasoning... all of which kind of terrifying me.

Given the implicit parallels drawn with them and Magneto/Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch... is it possible that they are actually twins, and that one was either in aged up by a year, or put in stasis for one, when they were too young to grasp it? That's... really stretching the comparison, but still, not as absurd as it might sound. Especially since, in some ways, their appearance and interpersonal roles are switched, with Jadis being the over-protective one and Mal being a bit hyperactive and more easygoing - though that may just be because that is closer to the XME versions of the twins than the ones in the comics, which now is probably the more familiar and, honestly, more relatable version, especially for Wanda. (Though Jadis goes more for Tranquil Fury and detailed planned rather than Evo!Scarlet Witch's raw pain and lack of patience.)

Especially since Avengers!Pietro was something of a self-righteous jackass and displayed a lot of hatred both towards normal humans and towards the Vision (whom he considered a mockery of humanity at first). Even fairly late in the game, he had to be talked out of putting Luna through the Terrigen Mists because he couldn't stand the possibility of having a daughter who didn't have superpowers, and even then it took Lockjaw demonstrating wasn't just a pet to convince him that exposing an infant to a random mutating agent might not be the best thing to do to a kid.

Though that was later retconned into a bluff on the part of (I think) Karnak and Crystal, IIUC - why, I don't know, especially since having him talk, in a way that was obviously painful both physically and emotionally, was a real touchstone point in the Thing solo series and some of Byrne's best work on the FF. Not quite a infuriating as "Jean Grey wasn't really Phoenix and had been in stasis at the bottom of the Hudson River the whole time", or "the Spiderman we saw was actually a clone of the real Peter Parker for half the series run" (fortunately they did an Authors' Saving Throw on that, and in any case I hadn't been following comics for years by then, so I didn't hear about it until that evil had passed), or "Peter makes a deal with a demon to undo twenty years of personal development and, oh yeah, his marriage to Mary Jane", but pretty damn insulting to both the readers and the material. When I hear shit like that, it feels almost as if they wanted to gut the emotional impact of the storylines they were retconning. But I digress, massively.

Conversely, Avengers!Wanda, while sometimes flighty and having a considerable temper, was just as often morose and introspective. However, in some ways that was a holdover from their characterization during their time in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, with the implication that Magneto was even more verbally abusive to them than to the others. This became really, really dark in retrospect when their 'true' story came out (as far as I know that hasn't been retconned, has it?), since neither they nor Magneto knew their biological relationship.

That, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a story and half. Their mother ran away from Magnus in fear of him before she found out she was pregnant, and ended up wandering into the territory controlled by the High Evolutionary, where the cow-woman Bova acted as her mid-wife. Magda died in labor, and Bova first tried to give them to an American couple, the Franks (who had been two WWII heroes under the names Whizzer and Miss America, and were traveling in the area at the time), but when they turned her down, she gave them to a Roma family, the Maximoffs, who had just lost their own children and agreed not to tell them the truth. Years later, the demon Chthon mind-controlled them to get them separated from their family and gave them amnesia (oh, and planted a time-bomb suggestion in Wanda's mind), after which they wandered for a few years thinking they were orphans.

Eventually, Magneto recruited/shanghaied them into the first Brotherhood, they ran away to seek the protection of the Avengers just as most of the members were walking away from the group and so they got enlisted at the same time as Hawkeye. Later, Rob Frank ran into them, and due to memory problems, concluded that they were his own long-lost children, until the elder Maximoff showed up to trap them in a pair of Chthon-evil-magic-infused puppets and told them that he was their father, and the whole thing remained a mess until Magneto came across some not-specified information about Magda which led him to track down Bova, then Maximoff, and then finally confront the twins in New Attilan on the motherfucking Moon.

I seem to recall hearing that later it was revealed that HighEv had some hand in this by mucking with their DNA, but I lost track of it long before that.

In case you haven't noticed, by 1983 some 20+ years of somewhat spotty continuity had already taken its toll on the Marvel Universe. Meh, still better than how pre-Crisis DC had gotten by then...

I am making way too much out of this, aren't I?

So... twins. All that was supposed to show that even a twist like that is nothing compared to what the comic books themselves have done. And I totes planned it that way. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

The reason Peter David (I'm pretty sure it was him) retconned the Lockjaw thing into a prank was simple: in hindsight, if Lockjaw was really an Inhuman and not a dog, well, it made all the other Inhumans look like dicks -- because they treated him like a dog.

And, while DC gets a lot of well-deserved flak for their reboots and confusing continuity (Hawkman, anyone?), it must be mentioned that Marvel took considerably less time (20 years to DC's 50) to become self-contradictory, and it didn't have the excuse of needing to digest several alternative continuities -- let me see, there was Earth-One, Earth-Two, Fawcett, Quality, Charlton, Milestone, Wildstorm... and most recently, the Watchmen universe (which was itself based on the Charlton characters), I do believe.

Very true.