Question Elizabeth Carson

The subject of Mrs. Carson's family has bubbled up a few times lately in the Wiki discussions. There are some things we know pretty well and some that... not so much.
We know the names of her three husbands (two divorced, one dead) and the approximate years when those marriages began and ended.
We know she had three children (Samantha, with Dr. Arcane, and Shelley and Miranda, with Hugh Wells).
We know that two of the kids manifested as mutants. One is Shelly, but it's unclear who is the other.
We know that one of her children was murdered by Deathlist. Again, we don't know for sure if it was Samantha or Miranda. It couldn't be Shelley, whose "death" was from different circumstances. But there's a small hint...
In "To Seal Our Happiness" Shelly is referred to as "both the oldest and youngest" of her children. The "youngest" is easy to understand, since she had her aging essentially frozen for decades. Shelley is older than Miranda (she was a toddler when Der Schartze Bar killed Hugh, three years after the marriage, and Miranda was an infant) -- but Samantha should be the "oldest" when looking strictly at birth date. Unless...
...unless Samantha is no longer around.

I suggest that Samantha was the one killed by Deathlist. I don't put a huge degree of certainty on this, but I would give it a, oh, maybe 80% of probability, instead of the 50% from pure wild guessing.

That leaves the question of who was the baseline, and who was the mutant.

I again suggest (with a lot less certainty than the previous guess) that it also might be Samantha. Why? Two very small, circumstantial reasons:
1. If Samantha was a mutant and went into the "family business", that would raise the likelihood of confronting (and being killed by) Deathlist.
2. Considering the timelines involved, if both Shelly and Miranda were mutants, it's very unlikely that Miranda wouldn't be at Whateley when Shelly died. Yet there's no mention of this anywhere in "Forger's List". But if Miranda were a baseline living with her adoptive father, that would go a long way to explain the omission.

Also, if the "remaining" (before Shelly was brought back, that is) child was a baseline, raised by a baseline adoptive father, it wouldn't be really surprising if Liz and her daughter drifted apart over the years, to the point that she apparently didn't come to meet her resurrected sister.

OTOH, it could be that Miranda was the one who was killed by Deathlist and Samantha the one who drifted apart, or maybe died of unrelated causes. There was more time for Samantha and Liz to become estranged, after all. But then, there's that "oldest daughter" mention...

It would seem to me that this thread, even though it has no replies yet of substance ought to be perhaps pinned in some way by the admin at the website. After all Mrs Carson is perhaps the most pivotal character in the 'universe' at least at Whateley.

Sir Lee's conjectures are always well thought out and brilliantly sourced. Top drawer work.

That is why I thought that this thread deserved to be pinned. Also because Mrs Carson is central to Whateley Academy... If not the universe.

Also, if Deathlist is correct, she has grandkids.

Samantha is more likely to have borne them, than Miranda, just by virtue of age?

But their mother could've been killed after their birth... So, grandchildren isn't much help in picking the living child?

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Where was it said that one of the other daughters was a mutant?

Anne wrote: That is why I thought that this thread deserved to be pinned. Also because Mrs Carson is central to Whateley Academy... If not the universe.

Not in Gen2 she isn't...

It is mentioned (in the wiki, at least, I don't recall which story the reference is from) "this causes her no end of grief in her personal life, since she currently looks about the same age as her surviving daughter, confusing her grandchildren no end." This was in 2006, and she's general described as appearing to be in her early 30s.

Samantha would be between 34 and 43 that year (since Liz's married Dr Arcane some time after 1962, and divorce him in 1971), whereas Miranda would be 24 or 25 (as she was an infant in 1981). This seems to point to Miranda being the one Deathlist killed, but it is far from conclusive.

I would posit the possibility that she had been pregnant with another, unnamed child and had miscarried because of Deathlist's attack; but that seems unlikely, as the phrase 'surviving daughter' implies that (until Shelley was restored to her new body) only one of them was alive. Also, I would have expected her reaction when she heard about Imp's miscarriage to be even stronger, were that the case.

I was plotting out Elseworld Whateley Elizabeth Carson's history over the weekend and that involved reading over the Champion page. Which reminded me of Champ 1 & 2's 'weakness' to "Tartarium" as well at any point in her career?

If you're asking if Miss Champion was ever vulnerable to, or displayed weakness to Tartarium, the answer is no. Which is not to say she doesn't have her own issues, just not to that.

-nods- Then I'll just gloss over the cause of her counterparts demize then.

If you're going to gloss over it, my suggestion is to take that as an opportunity to make English-teacher puns. For example, she could have been trapped in a vegetative state by Coma Splice, or dangled over a volcano by the dreaded Part Disciple.

Kettlekorn wrote: If you're going to gloss over it, my suggestion is to take that as an opportunity to make English-teacher puns. For example, she could have been trapped in a vegetative state by Coma Splice, or dangled over a volcano by the dreaded Part Disciple.

Attack by the Dreaded Grammar Nazi!

The Gramercy Nazi!

As fun as teaching puns would be, alass the lass passes before becoming a teacher. Then again who's to say (besides me as I wrlsewolds Whatelet) if that Betty was as good as Prime Carson. Could be that Betty got Holenbook to make a woman out of her and that's part of her demise story. Not sure if it will get much of a mention past a display in the Ew-W version of the Homer gallery.

What would happen if the Alt-World version of Carson ends up at WA as the Syndicate representative...?