Question Ribbon

Well, let me see. Placing an artificial (and rather puritanical) constraint of "no high school pregnancies, no marriage before graduation", and assuming that Kaylie is about thirteen in mid-2007 (around Big Al's 50th birthday), we get less than no margin for error. Let me see...
- Big Al was born in August 1957.
- He graduates high school around... May, I think graduations happen in the US? Well, May 1975. He promptly marries Megan and she gets pregnant in the honeymoon.
- Melanie is born in February 1976.
- Melanie graduates in May 1994, marries Mark immediately and becomes pregnant in the honeymoon.
- Kaylie is born in February 1995
- By July 2007, Melanie is 31 and five months
- By July 2007, Kaylie is twelve and a five months -- slightly young to manifest, but not unprecedented.

We get a little slack by assuming that Melanie and/or Kaylie were born somewhat earlier -- either due to premature births (but that would only get a few months, not more than four max) or due to teenage pregnancy issues, which could give maybe a couple years of slack.

But, here's the thing: even with Big Al knocking up Megan in high school, Melanie is unlikely to be more than, say, 33. In order for Rachel Ann to be 30, she would have to have come rather soon after the first baby, when Al was not yet twenty, and already had baby bills to pay. I would think they would space them out a bit -- and, considering that Rich appears to be in his mid-twenties, that seems likely. That's why I think under 30 for Rachel is likelier. But Morpheus can correct me anytime.

There are numerous references to little girls running around in dresses, which to me puts them at most 2 or 3 years apart.

Any more of an age gap and you're talking todler or tweenager, and not 2 little girls

Which puts Rachel in high school in the early to middle 90s. Hmmmm.

Big Al didn't graduate from high school. He dropped out.

Steel Ribbon wrote: I looked up and saw my son Rich coming into the hospital room, giving me a sad look as he did so. He was short and skinny, taking after his mother more than he ever had me, both in physique and temperament. He'd just graduated from college with a degree in computer science, while I'd never even finished high school and could barely figure out how to turn a computer on.

So if he dropped out because he got his girlfriend pregnant...
- Big Al was born in August 1957.
- He graduates drops out of high school around... May, I think graduations happen in the US? Well, May 1975 fall of 1973. He promptly marries Megan and she's gets already pregnant in the honeymoon.
- Melanie is born in February 19764.
- Melanie graduates in May 19942,

Changes things a bit when you remember he dropped out.

Yeah, that gives a bit of a slack. Two years worth or thereabouts.

It's also worth remembering a few things about "Thinks Ribbon is the daughter of Lady Havoc."

Most people, even if they knew Ribbon is supposed to be a "teenager" still mentally categorize Ribbon as 10ish. So that gives Lady Havoc far more leeway to have a kid.

Secondly - most people don't know how old Lady Havoc really is. She's probably assumed to be anywhere between 20s-40s. Anybody who thinks of Ribbon as her daughter will reasonably assume she's on the older side of that, or at least the middle, but they don't know her actual age.

Just one point, Big Al was a high school dropout, it says so specifically in Steel Ribbon, this is part of how Alysa justifies going to Whateley to herself.

konzill wrote: Just one point, Big Al was a high school dropout, it says so specifically in Steel Ribbon, this is part of how Alysa justifies going to Whateley to herself.

That has been pointed out already, but the big thing is that we don't know which year of High School he dropped out in.

You know I have to wonder if she can get away with aiming her bracelets so that they would overshoot in 1g but hit in a high gravity zone..

mhalpern wrote: You know I have to wonder if she can get away with aiming her bracelets so that they would overshoot in 1g but hit in a high gravity zone..

Aim for his face. By reflex, he'll duck, jack up the gravity field in front of him, or both.

Or just be swinging it around on a ribbon, and if he happens to jack up the gravity such that it hits him that's his fault

Regarding Big Al dropping out of school. In the USA compulsory education laws were in effect in all states by 1918 (Mississippi was the last state to pass one). Additionally, all youths are required to attend to the time of reaching the states minimum age of leaving school with the exception of the Amish, which thanks to Wisconsin v. Yoder are only required to attend until completion of the 8th grade.

Big Al was in Pennsylvania as I recall, so that is where the applicable laws will be found. Compulsory Education was passed in 1895 and required attendance from the age of 8 until age 13. 1949 Public School Code Act set the compulsory attendance ages as 8 until 17. Those ages have never been amended. However, at age 15 a student can cease attending high school and go to a certified trade school instead. As we have no evidence of Big Al or his parents being called up on truancy charged, we can safely assume he dropped out at age 17 OR he went to a trade school instead of high school as early as age 15 and became a mechanic that way.

That gives use a three year range to work with (15, 16, 17).

I dropped out at 16, as a sophomore, but I did get my GED.

Age varies by state. Other than the exceptions for the Amish, GED, already having a full time job, having parental consent and a few others the lowest current legal age is 16. The highest is 19 (Texas). The other obvious exception to compulsory attendance is if you have completed everything before reaching that age. Most states phrase their laws in terms of "until graduation or age X, whichever comes first". We should also remember that the minimum age for dropping out has been increasing in recent years (something I am not entirely sure is useful to be honest, I'd rather have students that want to learn then those that are forced to attend and have nothing better to do than disrupt the class).

Bringing the thread back to life as i realized the perfect piece of equipment that would enhance Alyss's abilities and mitigate her biggest weakness isn't any sort of weapon, but shoes with controllable traction and adhesion, that way they can compensate for her light weight when needed

Alyss should get some big ol' gothy boots with lots of eyeholes for the laces, she can manifest long laces, and use them as secret emergency tools.

She doesn't need more large slinging weapons, the boots can be used for storage of things harder to hide or integrate into her outfit, she can also manifest all the non structural components, other than possibly upgrading the parasol she could use a studded choker for weapons, or if the studs are made by a student, who knows what they could do

mhalpern wrote: She doesn't need more large slinging weapons, the boots can be used for storage of things harder to hide or integrate into her outfit, she can also manifest all the non structural components, other than possibly upgrading the parasol she could use a studded choker for weapons, or if the studs are made by a student, who knows what they could do

Especially if Alyss manages to win some power gems over a friendly game of poker.

I don't remember if it has been specifically mentioned, but is Alyss manifesting her footwear too? It may not be obvious, but it seems feasible to me.

Sir Lee wrote: I don't remember if it has been specifically mentioned, but is Alyss manifesting her footwear too? It may not be obvious, but it seems feasible to me.

I don't think she can do hard soles, she has made sock-like slippers before though.

Sir Lee wrote: I don't remember if it has been specifically mentioned, but is Alyss manifesting her footwear too? It may not be obvious, but it seems feasible to me.

she can only do fabrics, footwear is generally not all fabric

I agree that there are many styles of shoes that she wouldn't be able to manifest, but then, there are some styles that seem within the bounds of creative use of her manifested fabrics. There are rope-soled shoes like espadrilles , for instance, and some fabrics can be pretty thick and stiff. As a high-level brick, Alyss does not really need the shoes for foot protection, it's more a matter of style.

Having low mass she needs shoes for traction and ground adhesion

null0trooper wrote:

mhalpern wrote: She doesn't need more large slinging weapons, the boots can be used for storage of things harder to hide or integrate into her outfit, she can also manifest all the non structural components, other than possibly upgrading the parasol she could use a studded choker for weapons, or if the studs are made by a student, who knows what they could do

Especially if Alyss manages to win some power gems over a friendly game of poker.

I was more thinking on the lines of your classical utility belt gear

If I were Alyss, I'd probably look into something like those really thin running shoes. I wouldn't want to give up the traction that rubber (or equivalent) offers on smooth surfaces, but the closer I am to barefoot, the easier it is to be stealthy.

I always assumed she was mostly wearing mary janes, which are not only part of the official uniform, but fit her aesthetic anyway.

That is sort of how I picture her too. It fits the whole loligoth look she's cultivating, Of course she may be wearing knock-off combat boots, just to make the goth statement....

Perhaps it was addressed in one of the stories, but how thick can Ribbon make the manifested material? If she can control the thickness or make it in layers, then shoes with reasonable soles would not be out of the realm of possibilities. Something like a set of deck shoes with thick cloth soles for example. Similarly, there are some rather glossy fabrics out there, so Ribbon could, potentially make something that would pass for Mary Jane's if she can properly control the material to look right and build up the soles/heels (flat style Mary Jane's are out there, the block heeled version is a fairly recent innovation). The "give away" would be the lack of a button or buckle for the strap.

She tried making shoes while at Lady Havok's lair, but they were of poor quality for the soles.

I remember the slippers scene, as I recall she decided they would keep her feet clean and her other attributes protected her feet from any injury/discomfort. But that was also shortly after manifesting as well. How much, if any, has her ability to control the manifested material improved? Has she perhaps learned more about how shoes are constructed? As I recall her first clothes were not exactly up to par either until she experimented and studied clothing construction some.

Remembering a shower scene Alyss doesn't manifest her shoes, however an important thing to remember is practicality, while she has become good at making hidden pockets, it isn't always practical to empty all her pockets every time she changes outfits, and for some items, particularly those a 15 year old shouldn't have, it isn't advisable to, so boots can provide that storage.

Valid point. At this point I am just wondering what she might be able to do more than what is practical.

If she wrapped her ribbon around steel spikes/cleats it would provide nice traction. Or even iron bands with a traction pattern on them.

NJM1564 wrote: If she wrapped her ribbon around steel spikes/cleats it would provide nice traction. Or even iron bands with a traction pattern on them.

This would also make a great fake-out during a fight scene.

She uses the cleats plus a controlled ribbon to (seemingly) give herself some traction, while she's getting most of the grip from something else.

When an opponent attacks the "source" of traction rather than her, she then uses that against them.

Carrying different soles in hidden pockets, would allow here to directly manifest the appropriate footwear for different environmental situations.

This could work well with other components that could be made partially from fabric; gas mask filters, eye-pieces for tac goggles, plate supports for armouring, plus with her ability to control the fabrics, they would not be visible.

Add in a cover of being a clothing designer, and it would be street-legal for her to carry these things. "They're for a school project that i am working on."

---

Applying this to the GearHeads workshop requirements, and she could make fabric mouldings, for use with fibre-glass for custom car designs.

So Kaylie is a pk, i wonder if she can use her power on herself, assuming she joins Team Shenanigans this will give them a flyer bound to be an interesting dynamic with her and Ribbon there

Yeah for ribbon and she needs is the shoe soles with a place for her ribbons to thread through and she's good to go.

RoseBlack wrote: Yeah for ribbon and she needs is the shoe soles with a place for her ribbons to thread through and she's good to go.

might be better to make or purchase fireproof boots, she needs longer term storage attire.

But it is a good point. Ribbon can make pretty much anything as long as it's made of fabric. This puts a few limits regarding accessories. She can't make leather, metal, rubber, plastic or bone. Some of the things she might make a reasonable facsimile in fabric, but others... not so much.

Take a classic Levis 501 jeans, for instance. She can't make the rivets, nor the heavy-duty metal button(s) in the front (or the zipper). She would have to cheat a bit: shiny yellow (satin?) spots where the rivets/buttons would go, and making the jeans with no actual fly -- make them in place, rip them off when she needs to go the bathroom (and make a new one afterwards). Or to use some sort of lacing in the fly.

For other clothing, she can make some kinds of buttons, but not all.

Belts also require a similar cheat -- most belts are leather (or synthetic substitutes) with metal buckles. She would need fabric belts that are tweaked to look as close as possible to leather, but faking a metal buckle would be probably too hard.

Shoes: other than investing in quality, rugged footwear (combat boots might even fit with the "gothic lolita" look), she might look into what she can do with her powers. She might have some good-quality soles made with holes so she can weave ribbons through them and make custom sandals, for instance. Or she might look into making tight fabric coverings for basic shoes -- her abilities should allow her to make perfectly-fitting ones with no slack. Or she might look into espadrilles, which have soles made of rope.

Fully manifested purses and wallets strike me as a bad idea -- you don't want your stuff spilling all over because you forgot to move them to a new one this morning. Not to mention that moving everything every day would become a chore. But she could look into taking a basic purse/wallet and customize it with her manifested fabric.

Sir Lee wrote: But it is a good point. Ribbon can make pretty much anything as long as it's made of fabric. This puts a few limits regarding accessories. She can't make leather, metal, rubber, plastic or bone. Some of the things she might make a reasonable facsimile in fabric, but others... not so much.

Take a classic Levis 501 jeans, for instance. She can't make the rivets, nor the heavy-duty metal button(s) in the front (or the zipper). She would have to cheat a bit: shiny yellow (satin?) spots where the rivets/buttons would go, and making the jeans with no actual fly -- make them in place, rip them off when she needs to go the bathroom (and make a new one afterwards). Or to use some sort of lacing in the fly.

For other clothing, she can make some kinds of buttons, but not all.

Belts also require a similar cheat -- most belts are leather (or synthetic substitutes) with metal buckles. She would need fabric belts that are tweaked to look as close as possible to leather, but faking a metal buckle would be probably too hard.

Shoes: other than investing in quality, rugged footwear (combat boots might even fit with the "gothic lolita" look), she might look into what she can do with her powers. She might have some good-quality soles made with holes so she can weave ribbons through them and make custom sandals, for instance. Or she might look into making tight fabric coverings for basic shoes -- her abilities should allow her to make perfectly-fitting ones with no slack. Or she might look into espadrilles, which have soles made of rope.

Fully manifested purses and wallets strike me as a bad idea -- you don't want your stuff spilling all over because you forgot to move them to a new one this morning. Not to mention that moving everything every day would become a chore. But she could look into taking a basic purse/wallet and customize it with her manifested fabric.

plus footwear can contain storage, so either making out of non-manifested material or buying custom would be better (has to be custom with her shoe size)

Here's a question: how does her manifested cloth affect those Faerie who can't wear synthetics? I don't recall off-hand if Fey ever found out.

For that matter, could Julie wear them without them falling off when she transits across wood?

Sir Lee wrote: Belts also require a similar cheat -- most belts are leather (or synthetic substitutes) with metal buckles. She would need fabric belts that are tweaked to look as close as possible to leather, but faking a metal buckle would be probably too hard.

While she would have great trouble making the buckle, if she were to make a facsimile, it wouldn't need to be functional. Her origin story showed how she can create otherwise impossible topologies without seams. She could manifest a belt with a fixed circumference that doesn't need a buckle. It would give trouble taking off, but she could probably hide a faux buckle elsewhere to allow her to loosen it.

I just remembered that she already does something similar with her waist ribbon.

To continue with her Loli looks/style. All she really needs is a Randoseru of holding. Have it made out of the toughest materials she can afford/barter for. And then load it up with tons of useful items. Buckles, buttons, hair ties etc. Anything she needs that she can use with her costuming/day to day supplies. And honestly,who would think a Loli with a cute Rando would be a threat.

Yeah just have a buckle and manifest the cloth around it. She has been shown to do this with other things. Though I agree something like a mobius belt that is fire proof seems to be a must.

RoseBlack wrote: Yeah just have a buckle and manifest the cloth around it. She has been shown to do this with other things. Though I agree something like a mobius belt that is fire proof seems to be a must.

something fireproof sure, but she can make a lot of pockets for small things, not EVERYONE will try to burn her

mhalpern wrote: something fireproof sure, but she can make a lot of pockets for small things, not EVERYONE will try to burn her

Exactly. Some folks prefer lightning.

And honestly. If her Rando was durable enough. she could use it as a shield.

Yolandria wrote: And honestly. If her Rando was durable enough. she could use it as a shield.

Most things dont hurt her, and what does, she heals from quickly, -and thats when she isn't in a position to dodge, what she needs is more hard stuff, maybe a steel Parasol, great as a lever. and for extending her reach

mhalpern wrote:

Yolandria wrote: And honestly. If her Rando was durable enough. she could use it as a shield.

Most things dont hurt her, and what does, she heals from quickly, -and thats when she isn't in a position to dodge, what she needs is more hard stuff, maybe a steel Parasol, great as a lever. and for extending her reach

A steel parasol might be a good idea, as it could allow her to better shield others standing with her, or to deflect incoming objects that she cannot just power through. (Grease bombs, for example, or brick glue) The problem comes when it's time to close the thing back up without racking up the dents and metal fatigue. However, if it proved possible to make the cover material out of carbon fiber or Spark's devisor fabric and have that act as the template/backing for a low-range force field, it could be stylish as well as functional.

An adamant parasol!!!

You know who Ribbon needs to get together with? Techwolf! Oh and the Sophomore fixer as well... Okay maybe Ayla isn't quite a fixer yet... But he has lots of contacts!

A Kevra parasol.

Just give her a parasol frame without the cover. And make sure there's a grove going down the handle.

I'm pretty sure she hasn't used her TK abilities to their full potential.

null0trooper wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Yolandria wrote: And honestly. If her Rando was durable enough. she could use it as a shield.

Most things dont hurt her, and what does, she heals from quickly, -and thats when she isn't in a position to dodge, what she needs is more hard stuff, maybe a steel Parasol, great as a lever. and for extending her reach

A steel parasol might be a good idea, as it could allow her to better shield others standing with her, or to deflect incoming objects that she cannot just power through. (Grease bombs, for example, or brick glue) The problem comes when it's time to close the thing back up without racking up the dents and metal fatigue. However, if it proved possible to make the cover material out of carbon fiber or Spark's devisor fabric and have that act as the template/backing for a low-range force field, it could be stylish as well as functional.

was thinking just the handle and mechanism as steel, but the rest as manifested material

Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

mhalpern wrote: Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

Wait until she realizes that she can charge people for her custom clothes. $1.00 a dressing would add up.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

Wait until she realizes that she can charge people for her custom clothes. $1.00 a dressing would add up.

Just as long as the customers know that the dresses are temporary. Don't want angry customers complaining about how the amazing clothes they just bought disappeared without warning.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

Wait until she realizes that she can charge people for her custom clothes. $1.00 a dressing would add up.

until you factor Ayla paid $30k for the adamantine tactical batton, and Alyss is more concerned with how Kaylie's tuition is going to be handled

For some of the noveau-riche-Venus-wannabes, dissolving after 24 hours is a feature, not a bug. I mean, they can have a new, perfectly fitted, in material that looks and feels like the highest quality fabrics available, one-of-a-kind ensemble every day, never repeat clothes, don't have to bother disposing of it afterwards to prevent it being "upcycled", all for a fairly reasonable price? The only problem for Alyss is to keep coming with new variations. I think old-Tansy would have paid way more than 1 buck a day for that. Old-Tansy would possibly have tried to set up some sort of exclusive deal, and that means big bucks.

mhalpern wrote:

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

Wait until she realizes that she can charge people for her custom clothes. $1.00 a dressing would add up.

until you factor Ayla paid $30k for the adamantine tactical batton, and Alyss is more concerned with how Kaylie's tuition is going to be handled

That was $250k or so, and I picked a dollar, because the clothes only las 24 hours, and Alyss wouldn't want to price out her fellow Posies. Phase I'm sure would pay top dollar for an elegant suit and dress for Charge for a dinner date, or Campus Dance. Other Golds too.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Part of the reason for using steel is because its cheap, strong and she could use scrap metal from working on her project car. Alyss can't afford exotic materials, and the weight won't matter to her.

Wait until she realizes that she can charge people for her custom clothes. $1.00 a dressing would add up.

until you factor Ayla paid $30k for the adamantine tactical batton, and Alyss is more concerned with how Kaylie's tuition is going to be handled

That was $250k or so, and I picked a dollar, because the clothes only las 24 hours, and Alyss wouldn't want to price out her fellow Posies. Phase I'm sure would pay top dollar for an elegant suit and dress for Charge for a dinner date, or Campus Dance. Other Golds too.

even more to my point, its been a long time since I've read that part...

so how many more times do you all think Ribbon willeget dragged into the Freelanceret's missions? Me, I think that when combat finals come around she will have Freelancers listed on her MID.

Hmmmm. About 90 billion.

I mean she's a target her family is a target. I'm willing to bet it's out in the community because of this last debacle where she lives. Hmmm her family should move asap. I mean anyone with a hard on for havoc is likely to show up. Or if they don't move rachel to a higher security facility then her daughter might be nabbed again....

Havoc should be in special lock up at pinnacles house.....

RoseBlack wrote: Hmmmm. About 90 billion.

I mean she's a target her family is a target. I'm willing to bet it's out in the community because of this last debacle where she lives. Hmmm her family should move asap. I mean anyone with a hard on for havoc is likely to show up. Or if they don't move rachel to a higher security facility then her daughter might be nabbed again....

Havoc should be in special lock up at pinnacles house.....

Their sex life is their own business.

RoseBlack wrote: Hmmmm. About 90 billion.

I mean she's a target her family is a target. I'm willing to bet it's out in the community because of this last debacle where she lives. Hmmm her family should move asap. I mean anyone with a hard on for havoc is likely to show up. Or if they don't move rachel to a higher security facility then her daughter might be nabbed again....

Havoc should be in special lock up at pinnacles house.....

Or add a tracker and panic button communicator to the gear that's locked onto her. As to the family, that's where Whateley neutrality comes in

Neutrality applies if somebody goes after Ribbon's family due to a beef with Ribbon. It does not apply if somebody goes after Ribbon's family due to a beef with Lady Havoc. Whateley may choose to provide assistance in that scenario, but the Neutrality is not invoked.

Kettlekorn wrote: Neutrality applies if somebody goes after Ribbon's family due to a beef with Ribbon. It does not apply if somebody goes after Ribbon's family due to a beef with Lady Havoc. Whateley may choose to provide assistance in that scenario, but the Neutrality is not invoked.

Neutrality, I believe, is also invoked if someone goes after Ribbon to get at Lady Havoc. Once Kaylie starts, she would be off limits too. Anyone going after Kimberly deserves what they get for picking on a seven year old. I think Team Awesome should be released against that person.

Pretty sure that only applies if they screw with the school to do it or use the school somehow to get info on location. If you know where they live already and show up when they are home it's not a neutrality matter. That's not to say Carson wouldn't help protect her student with school assets if she can but it wouldn't bring down everyone like a ton of bricks. Same with going after the rest of ribbons family to get to havoc doesn't concern whatley. Now if they used them to try to get to ribbon different case.

JG wrote: actually,

going after Ribbon's immediate family in a manner that is not quickly resolved and controlled very well COULD result in a reaction.

Going after lady havoc just to go after lady havoc? no response. to get at ribbon? biiiig response.

As the Tong of the Black Madonna found out the hard way. The very hard way.

Or, if the job justifies it (and it happens, say, around Christmas), they might find themselves as the newest Senior Class Project.

Come to think of it, it should be just a matter of time until one of the groups the Loose Cannons have been running afoul of makes a mistake and annoys the wrong people...

Does Ribbon have a grudge with Dr. Dad? Do the Freelancers?

He did, after all, kill quite a few people trying to put Pittsburg in orbit that one time.

I don't think Ribbon will have a problem with Dr.dad as her daughter aka "mom" called Dr.dad aka Doctor Leonides Daibliku first to help her save her brother. She is also on a first name basis with him and wished him good luck with Saint Louis. So she most likely gets work from him and knows about what cities he is going to raid.

Dr Uncle, I mean Diabolik, does not do raids. He does large scale experiments on baseline populations to see if he can make them smarter (and thereby longer lived to survive his experiments) as part of his SMIILE agenda. That Pittsburgh thing was clearly another mistaken hero intervention, just like with that moonbase. Obviously he intended for that city to be the first permanent human outpost in space (I mean, why bother with laboriously putting a tin can in LEO, when you can laboriously put an entire city with all its infrastructure and population in that same orbit?)

The raids are an unfortunate necessity to be able to afford those experiments and the army to make the baselines subject to them.

Or so he tells himself at night.

I wonder if he will try to put a city in orbit again, ans SUCCEED!