Question Are the Good kinds analogous to the trumps?

Because if so Goodkind... president. Way bad?
Do the trumps even exist in the whatlyverse?

We try to keep politics off these forums. To answer your factual based question, yes the Trumps exist.

Not jumping in the politics thing, but a quick comparison would show that there is very little similarity between the two families, other than having money and being from New York (where, you know, there are quite a few other moneyed families).
In fact, the Goodkinds are not very similar to any other billionaire family I'm aware of, with the possible exception of royalty. Besides them being so wealthy that they make the likes of Buffet, Gates, Bezos and Slim Helu look like wannabes, they have one feature that's really uncommon on the top billionaires worldwide: they are OLD money. Like 200 years old.

Sir Lee wrote: Not jumping in the politics thing, but a quick comparison would show that there is very little similarity between the two families, other than having money and being from New York (where, you know, there are quite a few other moneyed families).
In fact, the Goodkinds are not very similar to any other billionaire family I'm aware of, with the possible exception of royalty. Besides them being so wealthy that they make the likes of Buffet, Gates, Bezos and Slim Helu look like wannabes, they have one feature that's really uncommon on the top billionaires worldwide: they are OLD money. Like 200 years old.

Sir has that one right, We are talking so rich that loosing HALF is nothing and will not affect biz at all.

Person in this range of cash, they rule governments and make the stock market go up and down at a personal whim!
Want gold to fall? Just dump your 30 tons of the yellow stuff on the market! and watch the fun!

Donald is/was on the board of trustees, and made a couple appearances in some stories...

Now that he's President, and seemingly doing everything he can to distance himself from correct courses of action, he's probably excused himself from said board and distanced himself from the school.

Except that a) it isn't November 2016 in-story yet (though it is getting really close in the not-really-Lanie story, but that has no references to the elections oddly enough), and b) WOG says that he never ran for POTUS that year, because Obama wasn't elected in 2008 - though I seem to recall it being said that the one elected then wasn't McCain, either. Does anyone have a citation on this?

JG wrote: because that level of politics is very much unimportant to the stories (and such a sore topic with many) it's likely we will leave the officeholder of the president of the United States as "Undefined"

I prefer my little world on this!!

Gary Colman ran for gov of California from 2003 to 2011 VS the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger who lost because of the bastard son and maid deal came out! (Not to mention that Maria Shiver shot him a week later after the story broke!) Then after getting California on budget and on track! He ran a massive building campaign that built major projects in cali--high speed rail over 300 MPH north to south and lead improving the one from west to east from both LA and San fran!

Then in 2012 ran to be the nations first black president of the USA and won! but his life was cut short by being assassinated on his victory night in November for his rerun/reelection effort in 2016 by Todd Bridges! The shooting was covered by every network where Gary's dying words were "Whyd you shoot me Willis!?" then he passed.

His vice president took over from there....Dwayne "the rock" Johnson

Aren't there a few stories where Nikki's father is clearly speaking to a very obvious George W. Bush?

Yes, but for 2017, we don't know (except it's not Trump) who it is, it hasn't been an issue.

Let me quite clear on this: G1 and G2 authors run the gamut from extremely 'right' to very much near socialist or outright socialist.

I'm not saying who or what, but suffice it to say, we vary deeply.

JG wrote:

lighttech wrote:

JG wrote: because that level of politics is very much unimportant to the stories (and such a sore topic with many) it's likely we will leave the officeholder of the president of the United States as "Undefined"

I prefer my little world on this!!

Gary Colman ran for gov of California from 2003 to 2011 VS the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger who lost because of the bastard son and maid deal came out! (Not to mention that Maria Shiver shot him a week later after the story broke!) Then after getting California on budget and on track! He ran a massive building campaign that built major projects in cali--high speed rail over 300 MPH north to south and lead improving the one from west to east from both LA and San fran!

Then in 2012 ran to be the nations first black president of the USA and won! but his life was cut short by being assassinated on his victory night in November for his rerun/reelection effort in 2016 by Todd Bridges! The shooting was covered by every network where Gary's dying words were "Whyd you shoot me Willis!?" then he passed.

His vice president took over from there....Dwayne "the rock" Johnson

If you want more I can do that too???
LOL

Wil post this submission to the authors. I think it's brilliant, and a much better endgame for politics.

Politics...many blood sucking animals...

As Mage Ohki and JG somewhat pointed out. Politics is one of those things you shouldn't discuss in polite company. As I recall the list my grandfather had for taboo conversation topics it was: politics, religion, very personal health conditions (I don't mean like cancer or terminal illness, he meant stuff that people really don't want to know, like say, how your hemorrhoids are doing).

That being said, the people that think there is a left and a right have been deceived. The political spectrum is more circular than linear. Go far enough to either extreme and you start looking like the other side.

MageOhki wrote: Let me quite clear on this: G1 and G2 authors run the gamut from extremely 'right' to very much near socialist or outright socialist.

I'm Australian, as far as you Yank's are concerned, I'm a damn Commie Bastard!

Even the right over her is 'Socialist' as it supports universal education, universal healthcare, a living wage and a social safety net (at least it keeps pretending too so that it can keep winning elections).

Kristin Darken wrote: If you're going to compare the Goodkinds to anyone in our world, you're probably going to have to look more at an atificially created family... say... what you'd get if you took the businesses and holdings of the Koch brothers and the Waltons ... and remember that the Goodkinds have been in this position for centuries... you'll get close.

I've always thought of them as more like the Boston Brahmin or Gilded Age families that didn't die out (or fade through intermarriage) like they did in reality.

JG wrote: because that level of politics is very much unimportant to the stories (and such a sore topic with many) it's likely we will leave the officeholder of the president of the United States as "Undefined"

For some reason, I read that as "Undead", but that's Gen 2.

null0trooper wrote:

JG wrote: because that level of politics is very much unimportant to the stories (and such a sore topic with many) it's likely we will leave the officeholder of the president of the United States as "Undefined"

For some reason, I read that as "Undead", but that's Gen 2.

Given his popularity ratings, Undead might be accurate. "Grrrrrr Zombie-Trump want wall to keep American brains in."

Kristin Darken wrote: If you're going to compare the Goodkinds to anyone in our world, you're probably going to have to look more at an atificially created family... say... what you'd get if you took the businesses and holdings of the Koch brothers and the Waltons ... and remember that the Goodkinds have been in this position for centuries... you'll get close. Are there individuals who appear higher on the Forbes 'most wealthy billionaires' list? Yes. But only because the total worth of the Goodkind empire is divided up between several family members AND that only measures their 'visible' wealth. Some 'branches' of the wealth they control haven't even been acknowledged in more than a generation.

Overall, that sounds much like the historical (and more recently appearing in conspiracy theories) Rothschild family.

As far as I know, most of the well-known U.S. dynastic fortunes were made in the post-Civil War 19th century. Before that (and since) American real estate and markets have long been where the well-to-do of other countries parked their funds out of reach of the Home Office. Then again, the Goodkinds could have sufficient political family connections overseas that haven't been explored/revealed, that they could have had a way to stabilize the usual four-generation boom-to-bust cycle.

MM2ss wrote: Politics is one of those things you shouldn't discuss in polite company.

That's fine as a rule in a moderated forum like this where politics would be off topic anyway. But as a general rule to live by? That's always seemed like a harmful notion to me. Why coddle children who refuse to grow up? Why normalize their idiocy? I think this is a big part of why everything is so fucked up. I mean, who is most likely to obey a rule like that? Polite, considerate people. Who are the people who actually should to obey it yet are most likely to do otherwise? Rude assholes. Doesn't take a genius to see how that makes things worse instead of better. The only members of the other side most people will end up hearing are the assholes who do not accurately represent the silent but "polite" majority. And that leads to misunderstandings, faulty assumptions of malice, and sometimes violence.

Communication is what makes society work. We need to talk about what we actually believe and why we believe it, in a calm non-hyperbolic manner, and we need to listen to others who do the same. We don't need to agree with each other, but we do need to understand the real people around us, not the villainous caricatures in our heads. And we need to set an example for the children out there who don't yet understand how to interact with people who are different without losing their heads.

Going back to the still-undefined U.S. president for Gen2... I have a counterproposal.

Frank Zappa. Yes, the deceased musician. He had manifested the intention of running for President in the Nineties, but then he got cancer and... well.

In the WU, he would have managed to fight the cancer (devisor drugs and stuff) for more than ten years before finally going into permanent remission. He took a few years to enjoy life again, but then he became disgusted with politics all over again. His candidacy as an independent in 2012 wasn't taken seriously by the political establishment, but got a surprisingly high number of votes, enough for being a "spoiler" to the reelection of Obama. In 2016, voters frustrated with the political establishment put him into office, leading to a major crisis in both parties.

(I have no idea if Zappa would be a good president. Probably not, due to the lack of experience running big organizations -- the guy was said to be highly intelligent, but intelligence alone is not enough. But the political campaign would be... well... highly unusual.)

On the other hand... Zappa would be 77 years old now. So, perhaps not a great idea...

Kristin Darken wrote: Also... most of our protagonists are early teens. How many 13 year olds do you know who actually care about who the President is?

I have to admit that I was, at the age of 13/14, very aware of the US President and the election. But it was the nature of the times. I turned 13 in 1979. So with the Hostage Crisis, Reagan running for President, I was much more aware of and caring about the government. I think it was a bit more common at that point in time, and again in 2008, and 2016. Since I wasn't old enough to vote, I tried to get my mom to vote for John Anderson. (In '88 I voted for Bill and Opus)


I always pictured the Goodkinds as a parody of the Waltons/Rockefellers/Vanderbilts. Since they seem to own everything. General Mills is Goodkind Mills, there is a G-Mart competing with Walmart. It seemed every time some one bought something it was made by a Goodkind owned company.

I like the take on the Goodkinds as a semi-royal dynasty. Not that they would necessarily think of themselves in that manner (as royal) but that they managed an inter-generational preservation of their wealth in a place where that if very unusual. Anyway, imagine that the great great grandfather of Herbert Hoover was not some barely known German immigrant whose only claim to fame (so far as I know is to be Hoover's great great grandfather) but instead had founded a family fortune that existed even to this day. That sort of inter-generational wealth. Anyway, no, I see them as much worse than T(he)Rump. Intentionally sponsoring known prejudiced group, up to and including experiments on humans. No the Goodkinds are much closer to the Roosevelt family than Trump. Not that it much matters. We've assigned them the position of ultimate evil and even Ayla has a very difficult time of over coming that. He has more trouble than Jobe, though Jobe seems to have had some, as he had quite an arsenal of poisons that he used when people attacked him, in addition to dirty-trick (not that that is necessarily bad) fighting as well.

Anne wrote: We've assigned them the position of ultimate evil

I decline to be a part of this alleged "we". The Goodkinds actually do a lot of good in the world, from what I recall, if you can overlook the harm they cause to mutants (and objectively speaking, that harm is vastly outshone by the good... mutants really are a minor minority). Do they have problems? Very much so. Ultimate evil? Not even close.

If I recall correctly, it's been observed in a Ayla story somewhere that the Goodkinds were abolitionists, civil rights advocates, and generally on the 'right' side of history, and the rabid anti-mutant stance that they are most famous for is bizarrely out of character for them.

Honesty I think these 'enlightened' positions are rewriting of history. When the Goodkinds saw these movements were winning, the reconverted to them, and used their ressources to make sure they'd go down in history as 'progressive saints' who would have been fighting the good fight from the start. The rabid anti-mutant stance, and the more discreet but obvious biais against LGBT of the family (see the reactions of Dearest Daddy to Grace, for instance) point in that direction for me anyway. Well, that, and some of the robber barons actions of the Goodkind the Green Witch describes in the Silver Ghost stories...

On the matter of judging the Goodkinds themselves, I'm inclined to wait until we find out what their great family secret is, should that ever happen.

Of course, I'm still going to judge the hell out of the KoP, the mainstream MCO and HF, without forgetting about the Goodkind funding and associations, but I'm of the mind that the aforementioned secret will likely be something of a game changer.

Ametros wrote: On the matter of judging the Goodkinds themselves, I'm inclined to wait until we find out what their great family secret is, should that ever happen.

There a betting/guessing pool on what the secret is? I'm betting on Ayla's mom being part deep one. Like Sara's mom was. That would explain the crazy and her remembering her sister being eaten. Sorta

I think the best way the Goodkinds could be summed up is 'They are Human'.

They have their good and bad points of history. I proudly remember my Maternal Grandfather who fought in World War II and Korea and nearly went to Vietnam. He was honest, forthright, hard working (was talking about getting a THIRD job the night he died) and very nearly a paragon of Southern Manhood.

But he had his flaws. Due to his experiences fighting in the Philippines during World War II (some of the bloodiest of the campaign with 16,303 dead and 55,531 wounded) he was never comfortable around oriental people the rest of his life. He remarked once that he only saw the spot right between the eyes, just above the nose where he had to shoot them in the war because the Japanese took to smoking opium to deaden themselves to pain and attack in the infamous 'Banzai Charge' human wave. The fighting was brutal and probably hand to hand.

So, my maternal grandfather, like the Goodkinds in a way, and all of our families when we are honest with ourselves, have good and bad things. And my paternal grandfather was a bootlegger, so. The Goodkinds just have their good and bad points written very large.

I might add that it's canon that the Goodkinds weren't ALWAYS in the "right side of History". There's something somewhere about a Goodkind who hired Pinkertons to break picket lines, as in "breaking legs and heads." And a Goodkind who was a hunter of fugitive slaves.

What they were, and are, is savvy enough to realize in time that times have changed and switch sides in a hurry. Maybe that's what happened between Gen1 and Gen2 -- they realized that being antimutant was starting to hurt their bottom line.

Kinda like corporations are suddenly becoming SO LGBT-friendly over the last ten years or so... or bending over backwards to be perceived as racially integrated in the seventies... or women-friendly... you can ride the "staunch defenders of traditional values" image for a while, but at some point the general public perception switches to "bigoted assholes who are out of touch with the times." Also, when they realize that they are having trouble hiring the best people because they either belong to the group being discriminated against or have family/friends who do belong, and are uncomfortable with working at such a company.

E. E. Nalley you are dead on there. My maternal grandfather had a thing against Germans. He served in Africa, Italy and over Europe. 52 bombing missions and one Purple Heart. Part of my family is German, but after WWII he refused to go to that family reunion ever again. He also refused to smoke Camel cigarettes, but he'd chew or smoke any other brand until he finally quit all of it. He reason, he claimed a camel spit on him in 1943. People can develop quirks and traits from nearly anything, and they can stay with that person for the rest of their life.

Personaly, I would bet on Sir Lee theory about the Goodkinds. Probably don't hurt they have the money reserves to bury their history if needed.

I think they are smart enough to realize that being all pro-mutant suddenly would sound... well... hypocritical. And they are used to thinking in the long term. And in Gen2 they are not described as anti-mutant or pro-mutant, they are pretty much... silent on the issue.

So I think that it's not so much that they now try to project the image of being the mutant's best friend, but just that they stopped being overtly antimutant. It's possibly that they still are doing some financing of antimutant forces in a more discreet way, hiding behind shell companies and such.

For instance, the Knights of Purity (if they still exist -- I think I remember something about they having been disbanded after some scandal or another) could have been spun off into a separate company and ostensibly divested from the Goodkind group -- but the "new owners" could be some sort of corporate shell with untraceable ownership... which, if someone managed to trace, would point right back to GKI. Same for donations to the MCO and Humanity First! -- the Goodkinds no longer throw money at them, but somehow money appears from a variety of unknown donors.

A different possibility, however, occurred to me during lunch today...

It has been suggested that the Goodkinds have some big secret reason for distrusting mutants, something that is only told to their children when they become adults and take active roles in the management of the companies.
Now, we recently became aware of something important about mutants that was hitherto unknown -- namely, that mutants were artificially created by Sidhe as cannon fodder for their war against Mythos creatures.
What if... what if that is the big Goodkind secret? That they somehow acquired that piece of information ahead of everybody else, but not in a way that would be convincing if made public? Seeing mutants as the army for a competing species -- a species that is reappearing in the global scenery -- could explain their attitude. If they think at some point the Sidhe will somehow take command of mutantkind in a war against humankind... then being antimutant is a rational response.
And, if Aunghandail had her way, it could eventually happen. But Aung is dead, and Nikki has been recovering from her influence.
We know that Nikki is still alive in Gen2. But, if at some point, it became known that Nikki -- as foremost against the Sidhe -- pledged herself, in a public and magically binding -- and magically verifiable -- way, to reject the idea of Sidhe supremacy over humankind, that could go a long way to dissuade the Goodkind fears. So that's my second theory regarding why the Goodkinds went quiet on the mutant issue.

My theory regarding the Goodkinds in Gen 2? Nimbus happened. And now Ayla is the only one left, or at least the only one of the main family line.

Because gods know, Ayla can't get a break about anything, not even his loved ones.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: My theory regarding the Goodkinds in Gen 2? Nimbus happened. And now Ayla is the only one left, or at least the only one of the main family line.

Because gods know, Ayla can't get a break about anything, not even his loved ones.

Nice thought.

I would put an outside bet on the Goodkind family being an offshoot of the White Monks, hence Ayla's original learned-attitude towards reality. This would also give one rationale for the behaviour of Nimbus.

Though Sir Lee's comment about the Sidhe's manipulation of the Mutant Meta-gene complex, and the Goodkind family having insider knowledge of this, is a wonderfully chewy notion.

This would also put an added spin on Paul Goodkind staying in touch with Ayla/Trevor, as he is of an age where he already knows the family secret.

Yes, there's the noblesse oblige, the "Goodkind's fix things"-attitude, and, the "It doesn't matter how they behave, they're family"-attitude ( Prime example being the Good-time Goodkinds), which would flavour most of what he does to help Ayla.

But, if this is the family secret, then wouldn't he feel obliged to keep in touch with Ayla, as it would provide a unique back-channel into what's really happening inside Whateley Academy, in a similar way that Mimeo was doing for the Syndicate?

EE, MM2ss -

My father was the same way, he wouldn't buy a German or Japanese car, and I think that was the most disappointed I ever saw him was when my Brother-in-law pulled up driving a Toyota. He served in Korea, and had no problem with Koreans, even had some Korean friends that immigrated after the Korean war. (You also remind me of how skewed my family tree is. My paternal grandfather was born in 1889, my maternal great grandmother was born in 1900)

Sir Lee,

If I remember correctly: Ayla mentions an "Uncle" that was a slave hunter, but he was at odds with the rest of the family. An Uncle that was implicated in acting badly towards Native Americans, but again it was only one. Silver Linings Part 4 has a list of "things the Goodkinds did." And Ayla talks to Paul about using the Pinkertons and others during Robber Baron era.

In Gen 2, the KoP is supposedly out of Business after being sued into oblivion for wrongful death, injury, and property damage. The initial lawsuit came after attacking a Mutant with a DFA for jaywalking. A Whateley Grad illegally tagged with a DFA.



There was a bit of debate about whom the Mutant was, after the story came out.

ISWYDT.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: ISWYDT.

DYLWAPCT?

E M Pisek wrote:

Schol-R-LEA wrote: ISWYDT.

DYLWAPCT?

Wut?

Malady wrote:

Sir Lee [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

Sir Lee wrote: It has been suggested that the Goodkinds have some big secret reason for distrusting mutants, something that is only told to their children when they become adults and take active roles in the management of the companies.
Now, we recently became aware of something important about mutants that was hitherto unknown -- namely, that mutants were artificially created by Sidhe as cannon fodder for their war against Mythos creatures.
What if... what if that is the big Goodkind secret? That they somehow acquired that piece of information ahead of everybody else, but not in a way that would be convincing if made public? Seeing mutants as the army for a competing species -- a species that is reappearing in the global scenery -- could explain their attitude. If they think at some point the Sidhe will somehow take command of mutantkind in a war against humankind... then being antimutant is a rational response.
And, if Aunghandail had her way, it could eventually happen. But Aung is dead, and Nikki has been recovering from her influence.
We know that Nikki is still alive in Gen2. But, if at some point, it became known that Nikki -- as foremost against the Sidhe -- pledged herself, in a public and magically binding -- and magically verifiable -- way, to reject the idea of Sidhe supremacy over humankind, that could go a long way to dissuade the Goodkind fears. So that's my second theory regarding why the Goodkinds went quiet on the mutant issue.

... I ninja'd you... sorta.

whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/spec...-tale?start=30#41609

Malady wrote: I wonder if the Goodkinds and related know about the revealed true origin of the MGC... And so, don't want any bit of that ''tampered'' bloodline?

Kettlekorn [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

Kettlekorn wrote:

Anne wrote: We've assigned them the position of ultimate evil

I decline to be a part of this alleged "we". The Goodkinds actually do a lot of good in the world, from what I recall, if you can overlook the harm they cause to mutants (and objectively speaking, that harm is vastly outshone by the good... mutants really are a minor minority). Do they have problems? Very much so. Ultimate evil? Not even close.

... Where's that stuff about the Synds trying to counter the elites, or whatever, who are stopping SMI2LE from happening? If the Goodkinds poured their money into uncovering the physics behind the most advanced Gadgets and stuff, they could advance tech and stuff, so much more...

E M Pisek wrote:

Schol-R-LEA wrote: ISWYDT.

DYLWAPCT?

Wut?

Must I? My interpretation.

I See What Your Doing There.
Don't You Love When A Plan Comes Together?

I got the first, I was think the second was "Do you like what..." in the vein of Do You Like What You See.

But then I couldn't complete.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. Go Joe!

I hate that saying. Go Go Gadget mind wipe.

JG wrote: Brain Bleach for sale! Get your Brain Bleach!

2,500 dollars per dose!

Remember to improve your quality of life and mental health by applying Brain Bleach today!

We know that stuff doesn't work, otherwise everyone whose looked at any of Jobe's outfits would use it every time they saw him to erase the memory.

Now if I could just get his stolen neuralizer I...'liberated' from the MIB to work how I want it to...

You know, George Bush Jr's daughters are old enough to be President in 2016.

Just saying'.

annachie wrote: You know, George Bush Jr's daughters are old enough to be President in 2016.

Just saying'.

I just vomited! those two drunks in office--save us!