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Question The decline of good writing in the 2010's

6 years 11 months ago #1 by CrazyMinh
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  • I haven't been writing online for that long. This is something I know to be true. While I do put out work that is quality (at least when comparing the critical comments I get rather to the criticism of works by other online authors), and get told by readers that my work is good, I am nowhere near as good as people who have been publishing for longer. I've always been a avid reader and writer, and that gave me a significant boost when I was doing my HSC exams at the end of High School. This gives me a special view on the standards of modern media, at least when compared to your average joe. I'm not the only one- I can see there are plenty of such people on this site- but it angers me that so many of the professional writers of books, movies and TV shows ignore basic tenants of writing when publishing influential works and franchise instalments. I decided to write this, as sort of a guide and also sort of a message to aspiring authors and published authors writing on this site. You don't have to take my advice to heart. All you have to do is listen, and if your willing, give it a day in court.

    Show- Don't Tell
    This is perhaps the most crucial bit of advice any author can get, and it was given to me first by my Y11 English Teacher, back in my final two years at High School. When you are asked to write a setting, a character or anything, it is always best to show the description to the audience rather than just outright tell them. For example, if a relationship exists between two characters, you should show the audience that they're into each other through dialogue or actions in-story. You shouldn't go the way of some writers and just outright state that 'we like each other 'cause we're attracted to each other'. If you do this, the audience has no reason to care about either the characters or their relationship. In fact, this applies doubly to the premise of a story, especially fanfiction. When writing a setting, don't just tell the audience what's going on: use events that occur to shape and mould the world. This is one of the things that shared universes like this very site and the MCU do so well. They emphasise the scale of the world and focus on intricacies by showing, not telling the audience. We know that Jade causes mayhem, not because we've had that randomly shoved down our throats just as a ex machina for some random story, but because on multiple occasions she displays such behaviour dating all the way back to the first few stories (the Cabbit chase). When I write my fanfiction, I try as much as possible (depending on the nature of the source work itself) to integrate the story around a unexplored area (to avoid conflict with canon events) of the timeline, or simply create a new character in the same universe. I have no idea about how Jayden is received by this site (Still waiting on your review Polk), but I try and create a character who has a interesting premise. My current project, Cypher, is a much better character, because I'm drawing on past experience, and showing- not telling. But anyway, that's a tangent. Let's move on.

    Make your audience care
    If you write a character that has no likeable or understandable traits, has little backstory that can be explored without flashbacks, and has a uninteresting personality, then your divorcing your audience from caring for the character. If you write a story set in a established universe that disregards whatever established canon that there already is, makes existing organisations and people incredibly OOC, and never answers the reasons for it's own existence, then your audience will be unable to be involved. If you want your audience to care, make them feel like the universe you are writing and moulding is tangible- in the sense that you can get behind the characters, revel in the rich setting, and (if its part of a existing franchise) laugh at where certain characters went and at the references to stories of the past. If the audience doesn't care, there is no justification for the existence of the work. Whateley does this well, bar characters such as Molly (who fails to be a likeable character, or one you can affiliate with), Tennyo (whose 'emo' attitude and 'whatever' responses don't really make the character more than a sulker (don't get me wrong- I like Tennyo. However, she's hard to understand based on her internal and external dialogue)) or other less-deep characters that do not do much other than whup ass and make quips or constantly obsess over little things. To make your audience care, you have to get them thinking about what the character would do, and show constant traits and skills that complement undesirable weaknesses and untrained skills. Otherwise, you've created a Mary Sue, and no one cares for Mary Sues.

    Be Unique
    The best thing you can do is try and do what everyone else has not though of. That doesn't mean write ideas that are outside of the universe, or ones that are too fantastical for the audience to understand. When writing a story, try and think of what limitations your universe has, what stories you can write that few have thought of, but are within the established rules of the universe, and what characters you can create, and what minor additions and changes you can make to a setting. You have to remember though that big changes, OOC characters and tacky cliques are no can do things. While I'm just as guilty of that as others, I'm not a published author. The world is slightly more forgiving on authors like me. The point is that you should try and write in you own style. Ignore what others have written, and write the things you want to write.

    That's all.

    Minh.

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 11 months ago #2 by Malady
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  • Hmm... Film is different from Lit, so applying the same standards across both, seems wrong?

    So, do you want recommendations of what we think is good lit to read, that started in the 2010s?
    6 years 11 months ago #3 by Kristin Darken
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  • I think you misunderstand the reason behind some of the issues you refer to.

    First... do not base your evaluation on the state of authors on the current level of screenplay writing in Hollywood. There are some brilliant scripts floating around out there, without any money backing them. Quality dramatic and artistic works, films with layered meaning and social context, do not draw billion dollar box office sales. So they also do not draw the interest of investors whose only interest in film is the return on their investment. No, these guys what a producer who has beancounters standing at his shoulders telling them about the various scenes in the film that will serve to draw in each successive demographic. The real artists, screenwriters with good ideas and a facility with words... can't get their work produced, and because they are writing in a vacuum, they also aren't learning from their successes or failures. All they know is that yet another studio has turned down yet another script.

    The theatre industry deals with this problem too. No company is making enough money off a given production to survive a complete flop... so no one is willing to take the risk on a show that is untested. As a result, hundreds of theatres wait for a small handful of big companies to do trial runs of a handful of new works each year... and then we all try to fight over the rights to do it as soon as possible after it is proven successful. Which works if it was good but not great... because the 'great' ones move on to NYC. A big part of the problem is there is no way in our current economy for artists, writers, and so on... to spend their time working on developing their work. Because you can't get a crappy one room place over a cafe for the little bit of money you earn off the box office of even your worst flop. We all have to be working at least one full time gig somewhere to stay afloat and that leaves a lot less time free to write, fail, rewrite, fail, and so on until we get it right.


    And finally... you can't count independent or web published authors of post-2010 with print published authors of the 20th century (or earlier). What people are mostly reading now are the books that were being sent to publishers and not making it past the first-read pile. Are there some good ones? Yes. But its not that the standard has lowered in what is being written... its that you are no longer being isolated so that you only read the top 0.1% of what was being written. Now you're reading from a sample section that includes the top 25%, 24% of which would have been dropped in the trash after a couple pages of reading.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 11 months ago #4 by Polk Kitsune
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  • Interesting post, I'll admit. Three good tips for authors, certainly.

    "Show, Don't Tell" is an essential tool in a writer's arsenal, since it allows to make the mental picture of the event that much more intense, and lived. It makes the plot move over, and have the reader live the action, rather than being a third party watching the action. The equivalent of a picture is worth a thousand words.

    Don't use that, and you miss a lot of the punch and impact yoru scenes may have. Even worse is something is just described off-screen, or off panel, in the background. If that even want meanth to be important, the reader will have a major disconnect when it is supposed to matter.

    It's tricky to distinguish though, since writing in mainly a media where you have to describe what is happening in one way or another, but you can tell the difference of skill levels of writers easilly between those who do, and those who don't.

    "Make your audience care" isn't a simple issue though, and there's various ways to do it, but essentially, you do have to make your characters relatable. Something that makes your reader attach themselves to them. That's unique to different types of characters.

    "Be Unique" is a given, surely, since not only do you want to avoid copywright issues, but if readers know it's actually someone else's story, they will point it out, and maybe even just turn to the original material.

    That being said though, just because you want to be unique, don't just avoid writing a character because you think it's too similar. I've had the same issue with my story for a while, and I got through with it anyhow. My own take was my own, and my own story to craft.

    In a hunt to be Unique though, some people will over complicate their characters, and it ends up in a convoluted mess. It's why you hear of the KISS rule when creating characters. Keep It Simple, Stupid. It's especially true when you have to make characters with powers. Keep them simple, and maybe have them evolve as you go, make them learn, grow, and use said powers in new ways. Depth in a character is more than just a power. Personality, goals and relations to others will make a whole lot more to your character in the reader's eyes than their powers will. It's part of them, but not their whole being. There's a reason the 100 question quiz is often mentionned in character creations.

    And yes, Minh, I know you're still waiting for my review, and I'm still working on it. Part of why it's taking so long, is that because part 1 was so short, compared to the reviews I usually take on, so I'm tackling the whole six parts (or rather ten) all in one go.

    At the same time though, I will give a warning, because I am going to be critical on it too. I know you've mentionned you've had good comments in the past, but I believe you're still missing in fundamentals in storytelling and how this universe might work at times, so I'm describing my points to show the effects involved.

    You asked for feedback though, and you do seem honestly looking into making a good story, so I want to be as descriptive and constructive as possible. I am going to get emotional though, and as honest I can be, so you may want to brace yourself.

    But going back to the title of the thread though, Kristin does have a good point there. What you often see in the media at the forefront isn't always the most creative, or in-depth work Companies won't spend huge ammount of money on something that's a huge risk for them, especially since movies and games now cost even more to produce considering the effects used to create them. It's a lot easier to gamble your investments into somethign provent to at least make 'some' money. Part of why you see so many sequels or revivals of past franchises.

    I believe Extra Credits and the Jimquisition did something similar in calling out that industries like this require the 'B' movie industry to go for something more in-depth, experimental and shocking. Where artists can take their wild ideas, and test them out, see what sticks. There's good, bad, and sometimes the phenomenon. Undertales wasn't a triple A game, yet it's become a cult hit known worldwide for the story it tells.

    There's also another factor in play too, is that you also grow older with the media too, and your own nostalgia and experiences may play against your enjoyment. You've seen the stories, you've seen the tropes, and gained some taste, so what you see now might seem deja-vu too. I believe there was a study about showing to teenagers who's never heard it, a copy of Romeo and Juliet, when they'd never heard of it, and they said they'd seen this done better in more modern tales, because they'd seen their movies first. I've had the same feeling about My Hero Academia at times too. The show is definitively great, but at first, I wasn't so much into it. Why? I'd already seen what they were doing before. I could call out the tropes that were going to happen before they did at times, but they did it so well, I was still able to get drawn into it a bit, so when it did create something really unique to it, I was really invested in.
    6 years 11 months ago #5 by Anne
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  • one of the reasons I like to have a proofreader is to help avoid what I'm wading through on another site. The story is fair. At least as good, if the author would use a proofreader, as say a harlequin romance. Actually some better than that as it doesn't have a trite romance as its premise.
    Now I also know that my writing still tends to be more tell than show, and that I'm very weak at writing endings to what I begin. Maybe because in real life I'm disorganized and really don't have a clue of how to get to where I'd like to be. And where might that be? I would like to read fiction for a living. I would like to proofread. But it seems that I must have at least a MFA to be considered a proofreader.... Now I might be able to obtain a MFA if I were to have 100 years to do it in, or if I were to win a lottery... And honestly the first is almost more apt to happen than the second, and I'm over the hump by a long road so 100 more years of life will mean medicine has advanced by nearly an order of magnitude. So I dump my experiments here and hope I learn a little from those willing to put their necks out and comment on them.
    6 years 11 months ago #6 by null0trooper
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  • Some of the more dreadful stories tend to be those that overuse "Show, Don't Tell" in the way a man who only has a hammer sees the world in terms of nails. Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe: move on.

    Know that the difference amidst education, erotica, and pornography often lies in the immersive details. Sticking to the facts may not be satisfying but gets the job done without getting too involved. Making the activities the object of the story just leaves everyone involved with a sticky mess that someone's going to have to clean up before we can leave.

    Just because you can recognize the object in the drawer by its make and model number, that doesn't mean your reader does. They may still not thank you for the explanation.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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