Question Ayla - what's next?

title says it all.

Begin the SPECULATIN', people! That's what this forum is for!

I still haven't given up hope that Diane will return, as she has mentioned Ayla and Aquerna stories she has on the backburner over at TtH, but I assume this is for what we think will happen.

Over the near term (as combat finals are coming up) Doctor Diabolik will donate a Mind Web unit for use in the Crash. Ayla and a team composed of Belphegor, Kismet, Ferret, and Golden Girl will have to do the Cincinnati Scenario.

Over the longer term, Ayla will discover that the Goodkind family has a long standing (predating the actual founding of the family as such) contract with a GOO, and that the reason that they oppose mutants is that mutants are Gaia's latest response to the GOO threat.

Finally, she will discover that Hekate's Master views himself as a good guy (of the end justifies the means type) who intends to use a Mythos spell powered by the sacrifice of a Goodkind converted into the perfect mutant victim in order to banish the GOO from Earth for ten thousand years.

Vox gets jealous of Charge, and voices Ayla into acting like a typical teenage girl. Ayla buys whatever make-up company was big in 2006, along with several teen fashion stores, and spends all his time primping and trying to get the perfect look.

Valentine wrote: Vox gets jealous of Charge, and voices Ayla into acting like a typical teenage girl. Ayla buys whatever make-up company was big in 2006, along with several teen fashion stores, and spends all his time primping and trying to get the perfect look.

That would require Vox actually not running whenever she sees Ayla now. And would lead to ethics violation charge, reverse it and she will only get detention, if not she will have the proverbial hammer of God dropped on her by Mrs. Carson. And Team Kimba would find out and confront Vox about it, don't want to know what would happen in that encounter. A good chunk of the school might be leveled if she "voxed" any of Team Kimba, although with the weird way Tennyo reacts to certain powers she is probably highly resistant or immune. Sorry, I'm overthinking things again.

Ayla gets invited to go along with Charge for the summer break European leg.
Some lowlife criminal tries to roll Ayla and naturally loses his freedom, but Ayla catches the eye of the local MCO and the fun really begins.

I'd believe it. Despite all the help Ayla's given the MCO he just can't catch a break with them. It's pretty bad when the KoP comes off as better than the MCO.

Dawnfyre wrote: Ayla gets invited to go along with Charge for the summer break European leg.
Some lowlife criminal tries to roll Ayla and naturally loses his freedom, but Ayla catches the eye of the local MCO and the fun really begins.

Ayla goes along with Charge on summer break European vacation, and catches the eye of Charge's former love interest Jean-Michele (or worse, Henri Dumond) - who call the MCO when they find out all is not as it seems to be

Honestly? I expect Ayla to go home to Los Angeles and spend the summer actively wheeling and dealing, (as opposed the passive wheeling and dealing he's doing while at Whateley). This culminates house hunting hi-jinks that involve at least three run-ins with the MCO and/or supers in LA, some combat where his clothes are wrecked (Much to his dismay), and a secret, double-blind meeting with Paul.

Not to mention dealing with the Children’s Services lady.

How he comes to grips with his gender as with his family.

Kettlekorn wrote: Not to mention dealing with the Children’s Services lady.

I would honestly love to see him walk in with accountants and lawyers, to show the idiot how much money he's made in a short amount of time, and explain why having her limited financial abilities decide what Ayla does with his money is like giving a monkey the keys to a Porsche.

Blue Moose wrote: Honestly? I expect Ayla to go home to Los Angeles and spend the summer actively wheeling and dealing, (as opposed the passive wheeling and dealing he's doing while at Whateley). This culminates house hunting hi-jinks that involve at least three run-ins with the MCO and/or supers in LA, some combat where his clothes are wrecked (Much to his dismay), and a secret, double-blind meeting with Paul.

but that is just rehashing Christmas and Spring breaks.

something different, a different location entirely.

Dawnfyre wrote:

Blue Moose wrote: Honestly? I expect Ayla to go home to Los Angeles and spend the summer actively wheeling and dealing, (as opposed the passive wheeling and dealing he's doing while at Whateley). This culminates house hunting hi-jinks that involve at least three run-ins with the MCO and/or supers in LA, some combat where his clothes are wrecked (Much to his dismay), and a secret, double-blind meeting with Paul.

but that is just rehashing Christmas and Spring breaks.

something different, a different location entirely.

To a degree, yes, it is a literary rehashing of Christmas. (Though Spring break, he was in Miami with Vox.)
However, Gracie is in LA, and one of Ayla's defining characteristics is his unswerving loyalty to those he cares for. Besides, L.A. is also where some of his major business markers are. I can honestly see him spending his summer for business. Yes, It's boring, but unless something happens around him, Ayla has more important things to do. This does completely ignore his blooming relationship with Charge, but I'm not sure what madness Elrod has in store for her.

Actually I don't understand why children services is involved at all. Ayla's guardian is close family, unless there was a complaint of child abuse the government wouldn't even know about it.

It is because of where her sibling lives with her significant other and friends, possibly also due to MCO behind the scenes manipulation and something done by Ayla's parents. What other reasons there are, if they have been explained in the stories, I have no idea.

Actually, I'd like to see Ayla have herself emancipated. Solves all of his child services problems. And it throws a wrench into any time Mrs. Carson wants to hang the Sword of in loco parentis over his head. Maybe not this summer. But I can't imagine Ayla not seeing the necessity to do so sooner rather than later.

amratner wrote: Actually I don't understand why children services is involved at all. Ayla's guardian is close family, unless there was a complaint of child abuse the government wouldn't even know about it.

It likely stems from his sister's TG status, his wealth, California has some severe laws about kids and money that comes from the child stars that had their parents blow all their money.

That would do it, Valentine.
When I separated from my wife in Ontario under bad circumstances, I had a visit from childrens services to make sure everything was ok. And if she hadn't been very satisfied with my answers and talking with my daughter, I'd expect regular visits.
Throw in cash, not being the actual parent, and a few other things, and things get so much more complicated.

Sorry, I don't buy it.
I do not think the MCO or the Goodkind family would notify children's services. So how did they know to get involved?

The transferring of Ayla is the biggest plot hole. But I could figure some jerk in the know informing child services without going into too much detail.
And once money comes into it, the government won't want to let her get away easily.

amratner wrote: Sorry, I don't buy it.
I do not think the MCO or the Goodkind family would notify children's services. So how did they know to get involved?

Police incident with Dazzler, a teen girl living with a shemale in the Square, an ADULT party one for perverts*, the police would inform child services to make sure Ayla wasn't being abused.

* In the WU, any sexual / gender differences make you pervert, ss that is how the police view the residents of the square.

amratner wrote: Sorry, I don't buy it.
I do not think the MCO or the Goodkind family would notify children's services. So how did they know to get involved?

Lots and lots of legal documents transferring parental rights, removing inheritance rights, moving a 14 year old from New York to California, big cash dump, etc. This isn't a poor family sending little Timmy to live with his Sister. This is one of the richest families in the world, filing all sorts of legal papers.

While I don't see his immediate family reporting him, after all they don't want anything to do with him, I can see Uncle Herb messing with him.

Valentine wrote:

amratner wrote: Sorry, I don't buy it.
I do not think the MCO or the Goodkind family would notify children's services. So how did they know to get involved?

Lots and lots of legal documents transferring parental rights, removing inheritance rights, moving a 14 year old from New York to California, big cash dump, etc. This isn't a poor family sending little Timmy to live with his Sister. This is one of the richest families in the world, filing all sorts of legal papers.

While I don't see his immediate family reporting him, after all they don't want anything to do with him, I can see Uncle Herb messing with him.

Given how much money he has earned since being at Whateley I'm sure there will be those in Goodkind family wanting to put a stomp on it. Legal maneuvering in claiming some form of parental rights or claiming the right to manage his money since he is considered a minor. If he hasn't requested or has the paper work started for emancipation I'm sure this could be contested by the parents thus tying it up in the courts.

Ib12us wrote:

Valentine wrote:

amratner wrote: Sorry, I don't buy it.
I do not think the MCO or the Goodkind family would notify children's services. So how did they know to get involved?

Lots and lots of legal documents transferring parental rights, removing inheritance rights, moving a 14 year old from New York to California, big cash dump, etc. This isn't a poor family sending little Timmy to live with his Sister. This is one of the richest families in the world, filing all sorts of legal papers.

While I don't see his immediate family reporting him, after all they don't want anything to do with him, I can see Uncle Herb messing with him.

Given how much money he has earned since being at Whateley I'm sure there will be those in Goodkind family wanting to put a stomp on it. Legal maneuvering in claiming some form of parental rights or claiming the right to manage his money since he is considered a minor. If he hasn't requested or has the paper work started for emancipation I'm sure this could be contested by the parents thus tying it up in the courts.

Even with what he has made, it is a drop in the bucket to the Goodkind fortune, and not worth the hassle of having a mutant in the family.

But being 'anti' mutant would be a reason to destroy one that had been considered part of the family. Vengeance is just that. Hate has no reason to be used, just as long as its there.

Well, Ayla does still have somewhat cordial relations with his estranged family. At the very least, he calls his brother Paul (and vice versa) semi-regularly, and their conversations has been very advantageous for the main Goodkind family, between catching Tansy's 'influence' on Paul and his friends, and the increased business for the KoP in Boston. (There's likely more, but those are the ones that I can think off the top of my head.) Ayla does try to not directly compete with Goodkind International as well. Now, this may change when Nimbus's plans to mutate David Goodkind come to fruition, but for now, I don't think there's a reason that the main family would directly interfere with Ayla.

Given the hilarity of the concept of Ayla briefly going undercover at a beauty pageant to avoid attention (albeit unwittingly meeting a vowelless demon), find an excuse to send him undercover at gourmet hell: a fast food restaurant (never mind the big chains, there must be some local "restaurants" somewhere that grab the cheapest food legally obtainable and drown it in grease, probably serving it lukewarm on cracked / chipped plates).

mittfh wrote: Given the hilarity of the concept of Ayla briefly going undercover at a beauty pageant to avoid attention (albeit unwittingly meeting a vowelless demon), find an excuse to send him undercover at gourmet hell: a fast food restaurant (never mind the big chains, there must be some local "restaurants" somewhere that grab the cheapest food legally obtainable and drown it in grease, probably serving it lukewarm on cracked / chipped plates).

No what is truly scary is when you read a news article about the Health Department shutting down a restaurant because they found unidentifiable meat and animal carcasses in the freezer.

Removing inheritance rights means changing a will, no government involvement.
Giving Ayla $300,000 (or any other amount) has no government involvement also.
If legal documents making his sister his guardian were done, that might have to be registered with the government, so that is a plausible explaination. However, I got the impression there was no paperwork done on this. Perhaps I am wrong(?)

To avoid a plothole, I'd go with that last one.

amratner wrote: Removing inheritance rights means changing a will, no government involvement.
Giving Ayla $300,000 (or any other amount) has no government involvement also.
If legal documents making his sister his guardian were done, that might have to be registered with the government, so that is a plausible explaination. However, I got the impression there was no paperwork done on this. Perhaps I am wrong(?)

There are taxes, and other issues in transferring that amount of money. All transactions of over $10,000 in the US are reported to the government.

Reported to the IRS. They do not tell any state agency about it.

amratner wrote: Reported to the IRS. They do not tell any state agency about it.

Unless you're of an opposing political philosophy than the prevailing head, in which case it will be leaked to the press and who-knows-all-else to embarrass you.

(And no, this is NOT a political rant. It's a little hyperbole - and only a little - based on the supposition that any politician of ANY flavor who can will and has used the IRS as a weapon against opponents.)

It doesn't even have to have anything to do with all the hubbub from the Goodkind side of the family. There are four people living in that house besides Ayla, and they all have lives. All it would take is one of them talking to their friends about Ayla joining the household and the wrong person overhearing and placing a call.

amratner wrote: Reported to the IRS. They do not tell any state agency about it.

No those are reported to the Treasury Department, so they can be investigated for money laundering. Plus it would be reported to both the US and California IRS as income. With California child wealth laws, that would bring in Child Welfare.

The thing is, Gracie is hardly stupid. She was fucked up by her father once on paperwork, she won't fall for that again. When Paul called and asked her to take guardianship of Ayla, well, she would demand he provide all the paperwork so she wouldn't be vulnerable to any accusations of kidnapping her own little brother. These probably would involve a formal transference of guardianship.

And then, there was that thing with the young runaway in the Quarter... again, Gracie would make sure not only to have all the paperwork in order, but she would ALSO make sure that everything was aboveboard, done through proper channels and registered with the appropriate authorities even if not actually required by law, so she would be legally armored. This would include working with Children Services.

Good point Sir Lee.

Iirc, Gracie was slated to take over before her lifestyle choices derailed that idea.
Kinda points to Gracie being smart enough to cover bases.

Who should Ayla fight in the combat final?

elrodw wrote: Who should Ayla fight in the combat final?

Nikki

Minutes after she finds out Ayla's been lying to her.

MUGWUMP!!!

elrodw wrote: Who should Ayla fight in the combat final?

Hmm...Tissy perhaps? We know she still seems to have a score to settle with Ayla, even if the vehemence of it may have gone down slightly after Ayla helped her with her love life...

Jade. Lets see how crazy she goes when fighting a friend.

Vox.

Jadis

The Crash, give Ayla the city like Tennyo had.

Specially as Mrs. Carson said that EVERYONE will be facing that scenario in the next combat Finals.

Vox and Adele are the 'enemies' who must come together to assist each other.

Ayla is the Dark Pheonix 'alien controlled' enemy.

Reason? It's nearly the perfect triple nightmare scenario.

1) the new girlfriend / ex-girlfriend vibe would be one of the hardest 'enemies' scenarios to overcome.

2) there would be real emotions at play, making it very hard for them to directly attack each other, it would really bring home the angst of the scenario.

3) we already know from the previous Dark Phoenix stories that Ayla couldn't do it. He could not attack his friends. He was told he needs to work on it, upping the stacks to his girlfriends (past and present), as well as putting real consequences on the line (his academic standings as this is fifty percent of his grade), this could go close to breaking Ayla.

4) Vox vs. Ayla? Now that we know the problem is partially self inflicted, and mostly inner self worth issues, working with the girl who has all the things she feels inadequate about and who has succeeded her with Ayla, and on top of that they need to fight a Dark Phoenix Ayla?

This story could end up being a massive three way psycic snap, with all of them catatonic wreaks.

Actually, no, she didn't say that the "All You Zombies" scenario WOULD be used in the Spring Combat Finals; she only said that it was one of the scenarios being considered.

And giving Ayla a scenario he has seen and has had three months to plan for isn't a good "test" for him., he has too many resources and is too good a planner for that to in anyway test his current combat preparedness.

Somewhat related, but am I the only one who gets the feeling that Ayla's brother David will end up as "a PK supergirl with danger-sense/precog" seeing how in the sims that's what he has frequently felt team Kimba was missing, fate loves irony especially in this genre.

Okay so I have no guesses on who she will be facing or what her challenge will be, but I'm pretty darn certain:

1) that she will be in the crash

And

2) that she will fail

Why? She'll because she's still seems crazy overconfident to the normal student body even though she is the least confident of team Kimba bar Tennyo. She'll fail because all of the crash sims are on the first day and very few people other than Jade passed that day. A slightly different question is what they do with Tennyo during this combat final, but that's a topic for a different thread.

Ayla's not overconfident- he did say he fought headhunter whilst being terrified, he has a disciplined and pragmatic mind, combined with a deep seeded need to help people, making it easy for him to be prepared to sacrifice himself if it meant saving others, should it be necessary, once someone's at that point, it isn't a matter of confidence- it's a matter of skill and wits.

Though it may be one of Team Kimba he goes up against, after all, who was it that couldn't do Dark Phoenix?

Team up Phase and Golden Girl as hostage takers against Aquerna and Buster as the heroes. And the hostage is Counterpoint, who doesn't want to be rescued any more than he wants to stay captured.

Did I say Ayal was overconfident? No I went out of my way to imply that he wasn't. What I'm saying is that the school sees him as overconfident so the final that they give him will have overinflated difficulty to try and crush said precieved overconfidence.

ahh yeah probably, though more likely they'd go for more of a psychological battle, its easy to fight enemies that you recognize as "bad" at least from a cognitive standpoint, so I am willing to bet they'd go for putting corrupt MCO and/or Knights of Purity thugs on him, considering that Alya fights with his mind (in the non-psi way) just as much if not more than his physical capabilities and holdouts, those kinds of mind games would be most effective on him, after all he does trust organizations with the Goodkind name attached to them enough for it to be potentially hazardous to his health, the combat final would be an opportune time to reduce that health risk. I wouldn't put it past Gunny to go for that particular weakness in the combat final, the other combatant would probably be someone who's good against tech-based enemies, or that possibly someone he'd normally be neutral to, remember teamwork is an option, so he'd probably risk setting himself up to be stabbed in the back if it was someone whom he was on neutral ground with. That or he'll get an energizer, but possibly an electric manifesting energizer rather than a "firebitch", or a powerful magic type, as those are the areas that he's technically weakest against, I mean thanks to Hammond, he has an incredible tolerance for pain, so electricity wont do much unless he's light, even against his weaknesses he can hold a while

How are we sure that Ayla shreds BITs? I've got a new? theory that when he changed Fireball into Tisiphone, he transferred one of his BIT layers onto her instead of shredding the BIT.

Although, that is disruption. ... Could Ayla try to disrupt his own BIT?? ... Not many people know about the BIT disruption, right? 'Cause I had a thought that someone desperate enough could force Ayla to disrupt their BIT by perhaps sticking them both underground, so Ayla couldn't flee, somehow getting him light, and sticking themselves into the light Ayla and forcing Ayla to go back to normal, or to heavy, disrupting the attacker's BIT.

Could the disruption create an opportunity to use Thulia's BIT alteration mechanic??

Hmm... Is he named to reference Trevor Goodchild?

Kinder being Child in some languages... Well, that last bit's a bit of a stretch.

***

Then again, ScramblerJ named him, so anything there is just guessing.

Mrs. Cantrell often called him Goodchild at the beginning of their detention.

Kristin Darken wrote: Those didn't mean anything. They were just typos/mistakes.

If you are replying to me, I was under the impression that Mrs. Cantrel was doing it deliberately. I seem to remember Phase thinking that he can judge her mood by what she calls him.

Ayla 4.8 wrote: Mrs. Cantrel met me at the front door, and she wasn’t smiling. Okay, if she called me “Goodchild”, I’d know I was in deep doodoo. I’d probably get Fubar’s pool, or the biohazard toilets. Or perhaps the supposedly cannibalistic Jimmy Trauger.

If you weren't replying to me. "Muddah, faddah kindly disregard this letter!"

Kristin Darken wrote: I was, but it looks like you're right. I was assuming that it was just another little memory glitch on the part of we authors... like the ten spellings of our medical lead's name

Mrs. The Doctor Tent? Or Mr. The Doctor Tent?

I've always thought that the Aeon Flux reference was intentional, myself (and even added it to the 'Shout Outs' list on the WU TVTropes page on that buttumption), but I don't think the PTB ever said so specifically.

Well I think it is reasonable to expect him to visit his almamater (spelled wrong) two days a year, weapons fair and job fair. It would be interesting to hear if she gets the "The Goodkinds" question or if he's well known enough to get a different question...

I wonder how much his magic has improved, with Charmer's help... Unless she was lying about that in Wine, Women and Ayla...

***

What was the impetus for his breakup with Vox? Or was it never said?

Malady wrote: I wonder how much his magic has improved, with Charmer's help... Unless she was lying about that in Wine, Women and Ayla...

***

What was the impetus for his breakup with Vox? Or was it never said?

Answer 1 - we may never know. Charmer had OTHER things on her mind.

Answer 2 - It has been speculated that Vox somehow "voiced" herself, possibly reinforced with something Jadis had done for magic protection.

At least that part hasn't changed. And since he's a Goodkind, you can imagine that I was quite surprised to find him here, especially since his mutation made him look so ... different. He ... took me to the play before Spring Break," she finally said, a somewhat wistful look in her eyes, "because Vox didn't want to go and because we share an interest in Shakespeare."

"Among other ... refined ... literature?"

Jadis nodded with a smile that Addy could tell sprang from fond memories. "Afterwards, Vox came to see me, quite furious, yelling at me to quit kissing her boyfriend ..." She sighed, shaking her head. "She said, and I quote, Leave him alone! There's nothing you can do that will ever make him love you! unquote. A few seconds later, Ayla came in, afraid he was going to have to break up a fight, and as soon as Vox saw him, she took off like a rocket. And that's it. Ayla and the Kimbas can't get her to explain. Nobody can. She won't even talk to Ayla."

If you recall in part 1 of WWA, Vox was crying and convinced that she was never good enough and echoing pretty precisely the words in the quote from WWA part 2 above. So it's not stated exactly, but the inference is pretty obvious.

elrodw wrote:

Malady wrote: I wonder how much his magic has improved, with Charmer's help... Unless she was lying about that in Wine, Women and Ayla...

***

What was the impetus for his breakup with Vox? Or was it never said?

Answer 1 - we may never know. Charmer had OTHER things on her mind.

Answer 2 - It has been speculated that Vox somehow "voiced" herself, possibly reinforced with something Jadis had done for magic protection.

At least that part hasn't changed. And since he's a Goodkind, you can imagine that I was quite surprised to find him here, especially since his mutation made him look so ... different. He ... took me to the play before Spring Break," she finally said, a somewhat wistful look in her eyes, "because Vox didn't want to go and because we share an interest in Shakespeare."

"Among other ... refined ... literature?"

Jadis nodded with a smile that Addy could tell sprang from fond memories. "Afterwards, Vox came to see me, quite furious, yelling at me to quit kissing her boyfriend ..." She sighed, shaking her head. "She said, and I quote, Leave him alone! There's nothing you can do that will ever make him love you! unquote. A few seconds later, Ayla came in, afraid he was going to have to break up a fight, and as soon as Vox saw him, she took off like a rocket. And that's it. Ayla and the Kimbas can't get her to explain. Nobody can. She won't even talk to Ayla."

If you recall in part 1 of WWA, Vox was crying and convinced that she was never good enough and echoing pretty precisely the words in the quote from WWA part 2 above. So it's not stated exactly, but the inference is pretty obvious.

If she voiced herself, damn that's rough.

Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

The big question is; Does Jadis know what happened?

Kettlekorn wrote: Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

Vox may be far from perfect, however her use of powers has often kept others from violating her rights and others, and non-violently at that, no one questions Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick,

mhalpern wrote:

elrodw wrote:
Answer 2 - It has been speculated that Vox somehow "voiced" herself, possibly reinforced with something Jadis had done for magic protection.

If you recall in part 1 of WWA, Vox was crying and convinced that she was never good enough and echoing pretty precisely the words in the quote from WWA part 2 above. So it's not stated exactly, but the inference is pretty obvious.

If she voiced herself, damn that's rough.

It's intended to be implied here that she was trying to voice Jadis, but the effect reflected off a protection Jadis had, so yeah, she voiced herself accidentally. Now why is it lasting so long? Well, remember she's got issues, and between some magical 'rebound effect' from Jadis' protection plus her own issues and insecurities, the voicing hasn't gone away.

Which brings up an interesting debate - would the effect of 'voicing' someone be stronger if it was basically reinforcing the subject's own feelings or tendencies? This event seems to imply that it's possible.

For as much as Vox is around, not much is said or done with her powers. We see her use it a few times, but without much explanation of how it works.

The odd thing is that she should remember using it, because she says that is one of the drawbacks. Her "victim" always remembers being told what to do, even telling them to forget that she told them what to do doesn't work.

These commands are different from the others that I remember. The others were a do a task. So once the task ended the command was no longer appropriate. This command was of a longer term, it was to no longer do something. So that may be part of it too.

elrodw wrote: Which brings up an interesting debate - would the effect of 'voicing' someone be stronger if it was basically reinforcing the subject's own feelings or tendencies? This event seems to imply that it's possible.

Or it could be the opposite. The voicing has worn off, but all her 'fears' came true, it's now her issues only holding her. She could resist them, but it's a lot of work and against her nature and hurts, so she's not trying.

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

Vox may be far from perfect, however her use of powers has often kept others from violating her rights and others, and non-violently at that, no one questions Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick,

The difference between Vox and Obi-Wan is that Obi-Wan didn't try using the Jedi mind trick in a petty, jealous attempt to interfere with other people's relationships or hurt their self esteem. He used it to persuade the enforcers of a tyrannical regime to not persecute him and his companions. There are justifiable uses for mind control, just as there are justifiable uses for firearms, but Vox's use against Jadis was not one of them, any more than a jealous husband shooting the man his wife had an affair with would be. Maybe the jealous husband was an otherwise upstanding guy who saved many lives in the past, but none of that exempts him from the consequences of his misuse of force. He might be able to say, "Overall, I have done more good than harm in this world, and therefor I should still be seen as a good person." I might even agree with that statement. However, he would still be culpable for his actions and must still suffer the consequences.

Kettlekorn wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

Vox may be far from perfect, however her use of powers has often kept others from violating her rights and others, and non-violently at that, no one questions Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick,

The difference between Vox and Obi-Wan is that Obi-Wan didn't try using the Jedi mind trick in a petty, jealous attempt to interfere with other people's relationships or hurt their self esteem. He used it to persuade the enforcers of a tyrannical regime to not persecute him and his companions. There are justifiable uses for mind control, just as there are justifiable uses for firearms, but Vox's use against Jadis was not one of them, any more than a jealous husband shooting the man his wife had an affair with would be. Maybe the jealous husband was an otherwise upstanding guy who saved many lives in the past, but none of that exempts him from the consequences of his misuse of force. He might be able to say, "Overall, I have done more good than harm in this world, and therefor I should still be seen as a good person." I might even agree with that statement. However, he would still be culpable for his actions and must still suffer the consequences.

Obi-wan also isn't a teenage girl and didn't figure it out until he was almost an adult.

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

Vox may be far from perfect, however her use of powers has often kept others from violating her rights and others, and non-violently at that, no one questions Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick,

The difference between Vox and Obi-Wan is that Obi-Wan didn't try using the Jedi mind trick in a petty, jealous attempt to interfere with other people's relationships or hurt their self esteem. He used it to persuade the enforcers of a tyrannical regime to not persecute him and his companions. There are justifiable uses for mind control, just as there are justifiable uses for firearms, but Vox's use against Jadis was not one of them, any more than a jealous husband shooting the man his wife had an affair with would be. Maybe the jealous husband was an otherwise upstanding guy who saved many lives in the past, but none of that exempts him from the consequences of his misuse of force. He might be able to say, "Overall, I have done more good than harm in this world, and therefor I should still be seen as a good person." I might even agree with that statement. However, he would still be culpable for his actions and must still suffer the consequences.

Obi-wan also isn't a teenage girl and didn't figure it out until he was almost an adult.

So? It's not like the consequences involved are terrible. She fucked up a relationship. Big deal. There are other fish in the sea. If she lets this ruin her life, then she's not somebody I can respect anyway.

I was a teenager once. My parents broke up, we moved across the country so that I hardly got to see my dad and old friends, and we changed schools multiple times, including during the middle of the year. I have social anxiety, and there's a big culture difference between rural Minnesota and urban Georgia as well. Plus the difference in accent, which made it hard to understand anybody. Then my cat died. On that very day, some asshole cut in front of me in the lunch line. I wanted to pick up a lunch tray and beat him to death, but instead, I just stood there and screamed inside my head. Because I'm a human fucking being, and no matter how upset I am, I do not have the right to hurt other people unless they are endangering somebody.

People who don't bother to control themselves are not human, just glorified apes.

But yeah, people make mistakes when young, and sure, I hit my siblings out of frustration when I was a little child. At 14/15, however, Vox should really know better. Hopefully she'll learn soon, before her idiocy gets her dead.

Kettlekorn wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: Serves her right. Maybe in the future she'll think twice about trying to violate people's rights.

Vox may be far from perfect, however her use of powers has often kept others from violating her rights and others, and non-violently at that, no one questions Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick,

The difference between Vox and Obi-Wan is that Obi-Wan didn't try using the Jedi mind trick in a petty, jealous attempt to interfere with other people's relationships or hurt their self esteem. He used it to persuade the enforcers of a tyrannical regime to not persecute him and his companions. There are justifiable uses for mind control, just as there are justifiable uses for firearms, but Vox's use against Jadis was not one of them, any more than a jealous husband shooting the man his wife had an affair with would be. Maybe the jealous husband was an otherwise upstanding guy who saved many lives in the past, but none of that exempts him from the consequences of his misuse of force. He might be able to say, "Overall, I have done more good than harm in this world, and therefor I should still be seen as a good person." I might even agree with that statement. However, he would still be culpable for his actions and must still suffer the consequences.

Obi-wan also isn't a teenage girl and didn't figure it out until he was almost an adult.

So? It's not like the consequences involved are terrible. She fucked up a relationship. Big deal. There are other fish in the sea. If she lets this ruin her life, then she's not somebody I can respect anyway.

I was a teenager once. My parents broke up, we moved across the country so that I hardly got to see my dad and old friends, and we changed schools multiple times, including during the middle of the year. I have social anxiety, and there's a big culture difference between rural Minnesota and urban Georgia as well. Plus the difference in accent, which made it hard to understand anybody. Then my cat died. On that very day, some asshole cut in front of me in the lunch line. I wanted to pick up a lunch tray and beat him to death, but instead, I just stood there and screamed inside my head. Because I'm a human fucking being, and no matter how upset I am, I do not have the right to hurt other people unless they are endangering somebody.

People who don't bother to control themselves are not human, just glorified apes.

But yeah, people make mistakes when young, and sure, I hit my siblings out of frustration when I was a little child. At 14/15, however, Vox should really know better. Hopefully she'll learn soon, before her idiocy gets her dead.

My point is this kind of thing is what should be expected from a teenager with mind powers, also we KNOW that she picks herself up eventually, we briefly met her in Gen 2

Going back to the mechanics of the thing...

I think Vox's "voicing" effect is at least in part a psi effect, augmented/carried by her voice manipulation (which might be a PK effect). If so, her self-compulsion might not be fading because it's being continually "recharged" by her own psi power.

I'm not sure if this came up yet, but does Ayla meet the qualifications of being a Wiz-0 yet?

Adam at Home 2016/11/17

The Early Years.

I've long had this somewhat wild idea of a scenario surrounding the manifesting of David Goodkind, Ayla's younger brother. I could well imagine Paul (or maybe Connie) contacting Ayla and Gracie to prevent a repeat of Ayla's torture happening. I wouldn't put it past Ayla to bring all of Team Kimba to Mutterwald on a 'vouched for by me and Paul' basis, both for personal protection and as 'ambassadors/examples' of mutantkind for the Goodkind family in general and David in particular. Carson would quite probably support Ayla in this (she would see the potential fallout from this event) though the bookies might get the wrong ideas about Team Kimba leaving campus as a group with no notice.

While it might sound cold I wouldn't put it past Ayla to try to use his brother's manifestation to try to put the family onto at least a somewhat more mutant-neutral stance. No real attempts at mutant-friendliness until the current generation at the top retires (which should be at about the start of G2) but with a fairly rapid drop of support for H1 and maybe the MCO. Whether this would bring Ayla and Gracie back into the family if not into GKI is another matter.

I know, it's a ramble.

The problem is Ayla's mother, who besides being clinically mutophobic, is going insane. While it may be possible to have a better relationship with his father and uncle, I doubt it.

More likely Paul will contact Ayla after turned over to Dr. Hammond and either TK will raid the facility to rescue him, or Lady Astarte will lead a raid to rescue him.

Valentine wrote: The problem is Ayla's mother, who besides being clinically mutophobic, is going insane. While it may be possible to have a better relationship with his father and uncle, I doubt it.

More likely Paul will contact Ayla after turned over to Dr. Hammond and either TK will raid the facility to rescue him, or Lady Astarte will lead a raid to rescue him.

TK, half the Lab coats, (including Jerico with both Tennyo resistant power armor AND his usual defense), a large chunk of Poe, and a lot of people who owe him favors, or want to damage the reputation of the MCO and Bruce Goodkind. He IS one of the most powerful students, and its not because of his mutation or entirely his money, but how he uses his money, and his self inflicted sense of guilt that makes him go great lengths to make up for his past, also the fact that he hates the idea of being seen as the bad guy.

Not exactly. What makes Ayla possibly the most dangerous student at Whateley, and one of the most dangerous individuals in the world (even if he won't admit it) is not his power... which, while interesting, is not really a game-breaker; nor is it his money... which is just a drop compared to the rest of his family. Nor is his intelligence, which, while high, is hardly unique.
No, what makes Ayla dangerous is that he understands power, as a concept and in its various forms. Notice that he is not really obsessed with money in a Scrooge McDuck way; money for him is a tool -- a form of power which he understands very well. He also understands the power of politics, he understands the power of information, he understands the power of creativity, he understands the power of social networking, and he understands physical power -- and how to make all of them work for him. Most of the "powerful" students at Whateley understand one, perhaps two of the forms of power, and don't understand power itself as a concept.
Now, this understanding is in large part the Goodkind family training. Paul probably understands it at least as well as Ayla. And so does Gracie, for that matter, although she chose to walk out of this sort of life. What makes Ayla more dangerous than Paul is that by casting him out, the Goodkinds made him hungry in a "startup company founder" sense. He really, really wants to succeed and therefore is always looking for new approaches, while Paul takes his power for granted. And the money Gracie squeezed out of Bruce gave Ayla enough starting capital to be able to advance really fast.

I keep waiting for Ayla to decide the best way to to take out a corporate enemy(Goodkind Industries?) is a Hostile takeover. but I don't think he will try as long as Paul is in the loop if he is taken out he might start shifting the back-up plans to the active rails.[/color

Or to put it another way, Ayla understands how force multiplication works.

AJK Global is still a minnow compared to Goodkind Industries blue whale. Paul called Ayla a "little corporate raider" after the takeover of Marvel, as if he was amused. Simply stated, AJK has to grow A LOT before Ayla has anything near the sort of funds to think about taking GKI head-on.

I don't think Ayla would go the direct route. Even if he did manage to aquire the same level resources as GKI. I think he would operate in the background using his connections in the mutant world to devastating effect. Shadow style wars is what he's gearing up for i bet. Taking what he's learning in team tactics etc and applying it to a larger scale. He already grasps the concepts and importance of information and the practical applications of the use of force based on that information. Would be great to see how things turn out in the Gen 2 time line.

Yolandria wrote: Would be great to see how things turn out in the Gen 2 time line.

With Gen2 we've tried to distance ourselves not just from the characters on Gen 1 - where possible - but the businesses and organizations... For instance, we don't talk about Arkham Research Consortium (ARC) or Goodkind International (GKI) nor about their 2013 merger...

Just Kidding... or am I.

But seriously, We may show some cameos or re-use some characters when possible... but the more we do that with characters that are large parts of Gen 1 stories the less flexibility we leave the Gen 1 authors in what they can then do with the characters.

Also... this thread is getting pretty heavily into near future speculation on Ayla... please leave us some flexibility in what we can do with the character and try not to hamper us in, morally, by speculating away likely directions we might take the character in the next few "in universe" years. We don't want to look like we're stealing ideas when we advance the characters in some quite likely directions.

This is not confirming that any of this speculation is where we're going... it's not. But the plans we have currently are not necessarily what someone like Diane may bring to the table, if she were to return, and I'd hate to see some of this speculation discourage her from doing so if she decided she might like to.

I did indirectly infer that the plans are on the back-burner. I also imagine he would need something similar to what he did with Marvel. perhaps some of the other rich mutants?

Dpragan wrote: I did indirectly infer that the plans are on the back-burner. I also imagine he would need something similar to what he did with Marvel. perhaps some of the other rich mutants?

Problem is, half of the "Rich mutants" get their money from illegal activities, and the other half usually come from old money, and old money flows slowly, or are very successful gadgeteers, or have some other means to use their power to legally earn their income.

What's Ayla doing?

Last I checked, Addy

DanZilla wrote: But seriously, We may show some cameos or re-use some characters when possible... but the more we do that with characters that are large parts of Gen 1 stories the less flexibility we leave the Gen 1 authors in what they can then do with the characters.

For example any character they have show up in gen 2 they will have a hard time killing off next week.

NJM1564 wrote:

DanZilla wrote: But seriously, We may show some cameos or re-use some characters when possible... but the more we do that with characters that are large parts of Gen 1 stories the less flexibility we leave the Gen 1 authors in what they can then do with the characters.

For example any character they have show up in gen 2 they will have a hard time killing off next week.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!

Astrodragon wrote:

NJM1564 wrote:

DanZilla wrote: But seriously, We may show some cameos or re-use some characters when possible... but the more we do that with characters that are large parts of Gen 1 stories the less flexibility we leave the Gen 1 authors in what they can then do with the characters.

For example any character they have show up in gen 2 they will have a hard time killing off next week.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!

Now I fear some DBZ Shenron hijinks or a zombie infestation ._. Offing characters never felt so real

GrimGrendel wrote:

Astrodragon wrote:

NJM1564 wrote:

DanZilla wrote: But seriously, We may show some cameos or re-use some characters when possible... but the more we do that with characters that are large parts of Gen 1 stories the less flexibility we leave the Gen 1 authors in what they can then do with the characters.

For example any character they have show up in gen 2 they will have a hard time killing off next week.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!

Now I fear some DBZ Shenron hijinks or a zombie infestation ._. Offing characters never felt so real

We've had Shelly Carson, and if we don't see their deaths on screen, or even if we do, there could be revivals and stuff... But, as said repeatedly by WordOfGod. Aunghadhail is not coming back.

DeathIsNotCheap in this 'verse. Unless you're Deathmaiden... Assuming that (she?) even dies at all.

I thought that there was one Ayla story showing the beginning of his (or her) taking the introduction to magic course, but I cannot locate it. Can anyone point me to it?
Thank you.

Search for... "Palantir" ? ... Okay, code-blocks don't auto-close... Hmm.

amratner wrote: I thought that there was one Ayla story showing the beginning of his (or her) taking the introduction to magic course, but I cannot locate it. Can anyone point me to it?
Thank you.

It starts in Ayla and the Mad Scientist Chapter 6

Malady wrote: We've had Shelly Carson, and if we don't see their deaths on screen, or even if we do, there could be revivals and stuff... But, as said repeatedly by WordOfGod. Aunghadhail is not coming back.

Can we bring her back as a house cat?

Domoviye wrote: "

"
Kid manifests and it affects his cat. The cat will always come back, no matter what, even if it involves warping reality.
And then the cat dies and is buried.
It comes back the next day.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: And giving Ayla a scenario he has seen and has had three months to plan for isn't a good "test" for him., he has too many resources and is too good a planner for that to in anyway test his current combat preparedness.

To test that Ayla's combat preparedness, I think you'd have to have a crash, it would have to be the first combat of the term, and would have to be a scenario that he hadn't seen any other time. Whew, the crash team has a big problem. Remember Odds and Ends? Did they ever plug even part of the leaks?

Even then, Ayla would anticipate their own preparation of his own preparedness.

So they have to throw something as unique and unseen at him as possible, or play really dirty and go straight for the emotional jugular. At the very least, he'll prepare to be flexible, so the only real course of action is hitting hard and without warning. Anybody who gives Ayla time to think is playing to his strength.

Ametros wrote: Even then, Ayla would anticipate their own preparation of his own preparedness.

So they have to throw something as unique and unseen at him as possible, or play really dirty and go straight for the emotional jugular. At the very least, he'll prepare to be flexible, so the only real course of action is hitting hard and without warning. Anybody who gives Ayla time to think is playing to his strength.

Emotional jugular... Like that one crash (Venus Inc I think) where they had to protect his parents, add simulated personality of Bruce and Helen Goodkind with the fact that they will know and recognize him? I mean its not like their goodbyes were exactly friendly Trevor is dead to them, and they have said so.

Ametros wrote: Even then, Ayla would anticipate their own preparation of his own preparedness.

So they have to throw something as unique and unseen at him as possible, or play really dirty and go straight for the emotional jugular.

Vs. Vox.

mhalpern wrote:

Ametros wrote: Even then, Ayla would anticipate their own preparation of his own preparedness.

So they have to throw something as unique and unseen at him as possible, or play really dirty and go straight for the emotional jugular. At the very least, he'll prepare to be flexible, so the only real course of action is hitting hard and without warning. Anybody who gives Ayla time to think is playing to his strength.

Emotional jugular... Like that one crash (Venus Inc I think) where they had to protect his parents, add simulated personality of Bruce and Helen Goodkind with the fact that they will know and recognize him? I mean its not like their goodbyes were exactly friendly Trevor is dead to them, and they have said so.

After that incident with Wondercute and Star League Jr I don't see them allowing that sort of thing.

I think a scenario where Ayla unknowingly interferes or disrupts a potential Goodkind business transaction, resulting in them having the "Trevor Goodkind Memorial Charity (something)", in retaliation would be an interesting possibility. Basically telling him, "You screwed us over, you may not have meant it.. but now you are dead to the world"!

Actually, if I recall well the Goodkind plan was to declare him dead. I remember one of the stories mentioning that he was officially "very sick" and in an "exclusive health care clinic in Switzerland" -- the implication being that at some point in the future, when Trevor's few friends had already moved on and wouldn't bother to be present at a funeral, they would quietly issue a press release announcing that he had died after a long illness.

Sir Lee wrote: Actually, if I recall well the Goodkind plan was to declare him dead. I remember one of the stories mentioning that he was officially "very sick" and in an "exclusive health care clinic in Switzerland" -- the implication being that at some point in the future, when Trevor's few friends had already moved on and wouldn't bother to be present at a funeral, they would quietly issue a press release announcing that he had died after a long illness.

That is the plan, yes. but it hasn't actually been carried through to the final stage as yet. My idea is that he inadvertently pisses them off enough to the point they say "you are dead, and we are telling the world."

Rose Bunny wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: Actually, if I recall well the Goodkind plan was to declare him dead. I remember one of the stories mentioning that he was officially "very sick" and in an "exclusive health care clinic in Switzerland" -- the implication being that at some point in the future, when Trevor's few friends had already moved on and wouldn't bother to be present at a funeral, they would quietly issue a press release announcing that he had died after a long illness.

That is the plan, yes. but it hasn't actually been carried through to the final stage as yet. My idea is that he inadvertently pisses them off enough to the point they say "you are dead, and we are telling the world."

Problem with that is that Ayla might show up to the funeral. And with the way his mom is acting that could be a big problem.
Plus they can't legally declare him dead. As he is not.
That was only an acceptable option if Ayla went along with it. He fights it it's a total shit storm upon the Goodkind family.
So they are not going to do anything to give him an excuse to start trouble.
Besides I don't think Ayla would do anything to harm them even unintentionally. He's to good at that sort of thing.

Unless you mean in a few years and Ayla is in active competition with them. Then I could defiantly see him getting in the way of there business plans.

That depends on what was in the stipulations made when Ayla got his settlement. In addition, given the genetic change, it'd be hard to prove that he is Trevor, given the changes due to his BIT change, and adding the additional changes that Jobe's altered treatment caused.

Rose Bunny wrote: That depends on what was in the stipulations made when Ayla got his settlement. In addition, given the genetic change, it'd be hard to prove that he is Trevor, given the changes due to his BIT change, and adding the additional changes that Jobe's altered treatment caused.

Paper trail and Gracie still has most of her original DNA, also we know that Paul didn't like what he heard about what the MCO was in the process of doing to Ayla till they read his file, which is more paper trail evidence. The cover story is sufficient for those who don't dig deep, but nothing is unobtainable.

True, but we know just how ruthless Ayla's father and mother can be.

Rose Bunny wrote: True, but we know just how ruthless Ayla's father and mother can be.

Yes but do you really think that Paul is going to just sit back once David manifests and let them do to him what they did to Trevor?

mhalpern wrote: Yes but do you really think that Paul is going to just sit back once David manifests and let them do to him what they did to Trevor?

probably not, but if Paul gets in the way, he can always be "disappeared", the Goodkinds seem to be that sort. Neither Good, nor Kind.

They are good and kind in the same way that the Fey are 'good neighbors' I O W you hope they never notice you, but if they do notice you you hope they don't take any interest in you either positive or negative, because no matter what it will be bad for you. !!

Rose Bunny wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Yes but do you really think that Paul is going to just sit back once David manifests and let them do to him what they did to Trevor?

probably not, but if Paul gets in the way, he can always be "disappeared", the Goodkinds seem to be that sort. Neither Good, nor Kind.

Not really, Paul would be the only heir besides MAYBE Connie left, Heather is not suitable for running the business Connie I think has interests elsewhere, David would be out of the question and they seem to follow classic royal rules of succession, which means the adults guard their shares jealously from the other family branches, Bruce and Helen can't afford to lose Paul and David, otherwise their money is going to be in the eyes of the other family branches and they wont be long for the world. Pragmatically, the only thing that is stopping a "deadly security breach" in the form of a mutant assassin being paid with Goodkind money from killing Bruce and Helen is that the money and the company would go to Paul and David. If they are out of the picture, then there is no point keeping Bruce or Helen around, now is there? They are neither Good nor Kind, but that is also true for the other main branches of the family.

Edit
The public would not find it suspicious if say Tinsnip killed them, and it would further the Goodkind agenda.

mhalpern wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: That depends on what was in the stipulations made when Ayla got his settlement. In addition, given the genetic change, it'd be hard to prove that he is Trevor, given the changes due to his BIT change, and adding the additional changes that Jobe's altered treatment caused.

Paper trail and Gracie still has most of her original DNA, also we know that Paul didn't like what he heard about what the MCO was in the process of doing to Ayla till they read his file, which is more paper trail evidence. The cover story is sufficient for those who don't dig deep, but nothing is unobtainable.

If I understood the process Gracie went through, genetically nothing was altered.

“There’s this black-market deviser drug called Anlage. It only alters the secondary sexual characteristics. Body hair, facial hair, breast growth. It doesn’t change you into a woman. But that was exactly what I wanted. You have to take these precursor drugs for years, and then, as your body chemistry changes, you have to take the Anlage at exactly the right time, or else.”

So Gracie is genetically unaltered.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: That depends on what was in the stipulations made when Ayla got his settlement. In addition, given the genetic change, it'd be hard to prove that he is Trevor, given the changes due to his BIT change, and adding the additional changes that Jobe's altered treatment caused.

Paper trail and Gracie still has most of her original DNA, also we know that Paul didn't like what he heard about what the MCO was in the process of doing to Ayla till they read his file, which is more paper trail evidence. The cover story is sufficient for those who don't dig deep, but nothing is unobtainable.

If I understood the process Gracie went through, genetically nothing was altered.

“There’s this black-market deviser drug called Anlage. It only alters the secondary sexual characteristics. Body hair, facial hair, breast growth. It doesn’t change you into a woman. But that was exactly what I wanted. You have to take these precursor drugs for years, and then, as your body chemistry changes, you have to take the Anlage at exactly the right time, or else.”

So Gracie is genetically unaltered.

And therefore Gracie could testify that Ayla was Trevor, if need be and verify she was Greg with just her DNA

I don't think all of Trevers DNA was altered. Just part of it. What is left would be more than enough to prove relation to the Goodkinds.

Ayla probably plans to have completed his hostile takeover of Goodkind International by 2016.

Silly people, Ayla is going to buy DC Comics and we will finally get some serious crossovers.

Well, not DC, since it's not for sale -- from Warner's point of view, the real value in owning DC is not whatever pocket change comics sales yield, but the licensing properties that it holds (and keeps churning more). Basically, Warner does not have to purchase rights for superhero movies, because it already owns a whole lot of them. True, it "pays" royalties to DC... which only serves to give Hollywood accountants another loophole to make blockbuster movies appear to be, on paper, perpetually in the red.

But then, Warner itself is a possible target of acquisition/merger... as has happened again and again in the Real World, most recently the purchase by AT&T.

NJM1564 wrote: I don't think all of Trevers DNA was altered. Just part of it. What is left would be more than enough to prove relation to the Goodkinds.

It seems to me that when I was reading Ayla and the Late Trevor Goodkind that they said that he was showing xx, xxy, and xy chromosomes. It would seem to me that if such had been the case before Trevor manifested (was forced to manifest by Nimbus) it would have been among the things that they were considering since he was in about the 20th percentile for a normal male teen. Thus unless the remaining xy showed Trevor, there would be some argument against Ayla being Trevor. Then again if the xx shows as being a Goodkind, that would be interesting too! Not something the 'family' would want to take to court. Unless Ayla sets his eyes on taking down GKI I don't think they are going to do much except deny that AJG has any connection with them at all. One thing to recall is that as Trevor, Ayla would have inherited in the neighborhood of 21 billion at 21 years old. His current net worth is somewhere over 1 billion. To put that in perspective, he has about 5% of what he expected with no work. Now that doesn't mean he won't get a lot more. After all he will see the reason for Smiile as easily as anyone else and he will be working to make sure that he has a hand in making it happen and that he makes a profit from it.

Anne wrote:

NJM1564 wrote: I don't think all of Trevers DNA was altered. Just part of it. What is left would be more than enough to prove relation to the Goodkinds.

It seems to me that when I was reading Ayla and the Late Trevor Goodkind that they said that he was showing xx, xxy, and xy chromosomes. It would seem to me that if such had been the case before Trevor manifested (was forced to manifest by Nimbus) it would have been among the things that they were considering since he was in about the 20th percentile for a normal male teen. Thus unless the remaining xy showed Trevor, there would be some argument against Ayla being Trevor. Then again if the xx shows as being a Goodkind, that would be interesting too! Not something the 'family' would want to take to court. Unless Ayla sets his eyes on taking down GKI I don't think they are going to do much except deny that AJG has any connection with them at all. One thing to recall is that as Trevor, Ayla would have inherited in the neighborhood of 21 billion at 21 years old. His current net worth is somewhere over 1 billion. To put that in perspective, he has about 5% of what he expected with no work. Now that doesn't mean he won't get a lot more. After all he will see the reason for Smiile as easily as anyone else and he will be working to make sure that he has a hand in making it happen and that he makes a profit from it.

Unless all or at least most of his chromosomes were changed then he could be proven to be tied to the family.

Yeah, that is what I expect. He also says at one point that he does look a lot like Heather. So, you can take that with as much salt as you think it might need and then apply it as it may need be in the WU...

NJM1564 wrote:

Anne wrote:

NJM1564 wrote: I don't think all of Trevers DNA was altered. Just part of it. What is left would be more than enough to prove relation to the Goodkinds.

It seems to me that when I was reading Ayla and the Late Trevor Goodkind that they said that he was showing xx, xxy, and xy chromosomes. It would seem to me that if such had been the case before Trevor manifested (was forced to manifest by Nimbus) it would have been among the things that they were considering since he was in about the 20th percentile for a normal male teen. Thus unless the remaining xy showed Trevor, there would be some argument against Ayla being Trevor. Then again if the xx shows as being a Goodkind, that would be interesting too! Not something the 'family' would want to take to court. Unless Ayla sets his eyes on taking down GKI I don't think they are going to do much except deny that AJG has any connection with them at all. One thing to recall is that as Trevor, Ayla would have inherited in the neighborhood of 21 billion at 21 years old. His current net worth is somewhere over 1 billion. To put that in perspective, he has about 5% of what he expected with no work. Now that doesn't mean he won't get a lot more. After all he will see the reason for Smiile as easily as anyone else and he will be working to make sure that he has a hand in making it happen and that he makes a profit from it.

Unless all or at least most of his chromosomes were changed then he could be proven to be tied to the family.

Except there is a BIT of a problem, pun intended, the presence of a BIT which is known to radically alter DNA, brings the integrity of DNA evidence into question. Therefore any such evidence used to prove relation has to come from someone who doesn't have an active BIT. Now logically and statistically, it would be highly unlikely that a BIT on its own would make someone genetically related to another specific family, but it is theoretically "possible" and "possible" is all lawyers need to make otherwise concrete evidence, nearly useless

First, I doubt that Trevor "manifested", he was transformed; almost certainly by a magical ceremony that involved multiple human sacrifices. I doubt that his bit is changed at all, his transformation seems due to the over 100 other BITS superimposed on it.
Second, my reading of Ayla's attitude is that her has no intention of attacking, taking over, or hurting his family in any way. He seems willing to go along with the cover story that "she" is the daughter of 2 hippies who changed their name to Goodkind because they liked the name; and that Trevor is seriously ill (and or dying) in Switzerland.

amratner wrote: First, I doubt that Trevor "manifested", he was transformed; almost certainly by a magical ceremony that involved multiple human sacrifices. I doubt that his bit is changed at all, his transformation seems due to the over 100 other BITS superimposed on it.

Not trying to throw your theory out-of-whack but we know from Ayla and the Late Trevor James Gookind that he DOES have the Meta-Gene Complex
.

Hammond calmly said, “Definitely. We have the DNA scans you had performed when Trevor was in utero, and matching DNA scans from the internists who looked at Trevor’s growth deficiency. I’ve examined the DNA scans from all of those. That gave me his DNA at ages six, nine, and twelve also. As recently as age twelve, only two years ago, his DNA was normal. Baseline. No portion of the meta-gene complexes we have isolated from mutants.”

Father pushed, “So how could that.. that monster be Trevor?”

“Just look at these PCR outputs from our mutant in there. See these massive strings of matches? This is definitely Trevor’s DNA, but with a meta-gene complex spliced in, after the fact. Somehow, at some point in the last two years, he was infected with something, perhaps a retrovirus, and that unknown something has altered all of his DNA.

and we can't say what has or hasn't happened to his BIT until something is revealed in story but as far as manifesting... just the definition

Manifest (verb): display or show (a quality or feeling) by one's acts or appearance; demonstrate.

should be enough to indicate that YES he has manifested. Manifestation isn't the actual changing of the body to become a mutant. It's when if becomes apparent.

We tend to regard manifestation as when they became a mutant... but it's more a term used in story for that threshold moment when it's become apparent.

Mutation is the act of becoming a Mutant and whether it was imposed or natural... Ayla IS a mutant and manifested her powers first in front of her brother and a maid.

Mutation doesn't happen overnight in most cases. With the majority of our stories being about mutants, it can be expected that it started sometime before the manifestation events we generally write about since that's when the story gets interesting and worth telling.

Agreed. He is deeply hurt by what happened but... they are still his family. He still loves his mother and understands she's mutophobic and doesn't really blame her; He has as good as a relationship with Paul as it's possible under the circumstances. He may have had sibling issues with Connie and David, but they still sent him a Christmas gift (even if the driving force behind it was probably Paul, they didn't actually refuse to sign the card). He may have cooler feelings towards Heather, Bruce or his uncles, but even so, he doesn't want to hurt them, he wants them to accept him back.

I think there are a number of scenarios where Ayla could come back to a leadership position in the Goodkind group -- but none is a "AJG takes over GKI" scenario.

One is simply that, through retirement or death or whatever of the current leadership, Paul amasses enough power in GKI to overturn their policies.

Another is that some new information comes to light that forces current GKI to re-evaluate their position.

A third possible scenario is that GKI has a leadership crisis of some sort (like, Nimbus' next attack not only turns David mutant, but incapacitates the current Goodkinds in leadership positions), and the family is faced with a number of unpalatable options for replacement CEO:
* a well-trained, competent, genius-level, stable mutant with a known track record (Ayla)
* a well-trained, but unstable, unproven, recently manifested mutant (David)
* a well-trained, but unmotivated transwoman (Grace)
* an incompetent socialite (Connie)
* a really incompetent starlet (Heather)
* or getting someone from outside the family...

While Ayla has it rough, the one I feel got the worst of it all is Puppet.
Ayla can certainly live with with the powers, being mistaken for a girl is upsetting to him, buuut he still manages to find hot bisexual girls that don't mind his duality.
having a mutation forced on you that is eating away your body though, and Puppet doesn't even get an upside. not like " My body is poisoning itself and killing my organs, but at least I can travel on the astral plane"... nope, not even that.

Sir Lee wrote: Agreed. He is deeply hurt by what happened but... they are still his family. He still loves his mother and understands she's mutophobic and doesn't really blame her; He has as good as a relationship with Paul as it's possible under the circumstances. He may have had sibling issues with Connie and David, but they still sent him a Christmas gift (even if the driving force behind it was probably Paul, they didn't actually refuse to sign the card). He may have cooler feelings towards Heather, Bruce or his uncles, but even so, he doesn't want to hurt them, he wants them to accept him back.

I think there are a number of scenarios where Ayla could come back to a leadership position in the Goodkind group -- but none is a "AJG takes over GKI" scenario.

One is simply that, through retirement or death or whatever of the current leadership, Paul amasses enough power in GKI to overturn their policies.

Another is that some new information comes to light that forces current GKI to re-evaluate their position.

A third possible scenario is that GKI has a leadership crisis of some sort (like, Nimbus' next attack not only turns David mutant, but incapacitates the current Goodkinds in leadership positions), and the family is faced with a number of unpalatable options for replacement CEO:
* a well-trained, competent, genius-level, stable mutant with a known track record (Ayla)
* a well-trained, but unstable, unproven, recently manifested mutant (David)
* a well-trained, but unmotivated transwoman (Grace)
* an incompetent socialite (Connie)
* a really incompetent starlet (Heather)
* or getting someone from outside the family...

You are forgetting aunts, uncles and cousins, and the fact that most of their customer base is very anti-mutant or neutral, AJG could buy them out after they suffer major legal troubles, which by nature of Goodkind Research Labs they are due for a major legal hit, so it isn't like its out of the question, especially as the fall out will be far worse than the fines and jail time.

We do know that prominence of the Goodkind in Anti-mutant affairs has dropped off. They are no longer the lead supporters of the MCO and H1 as of Gen 2.

mhalpern wrote: Except there is a BIT of a problem, pun intended, the presence of a BIT which is known to radically alter DNA, brings the integrity of DNA evidence into question. Therefore any such evidence used to prove relation has to come from someone who doesn't have an active BIT. Now logically and statistically, it would be highly unlikely that a BIT on its own would make someone genetically related to another specific family, but it is theoretically "possible" and "possible" is all lawyers need to make otherwise concrete evidence, nearly useless

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that BITs alter DNA.
If it did the body would go threw fatal rejection of all the altered tissue every single time.
And there would be a good chance that the BIT would alter/remove the mutant gene complex.

It was stated that Trevor's DNA was altered, as he had been tested on several occasions for mutant DNA, it wasn't that a BIT changed him, he was "made into" a mutant, and BIT pieces pasted onto him, like stickers.

I'd compare it more to patches sewn in after you ripped out the original bits.

I note that earlier you said that Puppet is the one that got the feces covered end of the stick. You are right.

What I think that you are conflating on Trevor's manifestation is the meta-gene complex with the BIT. While all people with a BIT seem to have the meta-gene complex, not all people with a meta-gene complex have a BIT. The BIT (until Jade/Jinn) was a theoretical ideal that the mutant was conforming to. The reason it was theoretical is that no one could positively measure a BIT, just note the presence of certain ideals, like the ones we see for Fey or for Kodiak or Kadya.

NJM1564 wrote:

mhalpern wrote: Except there is a BIT of a problem, pun intended, the presence of a BIT which is known to radically alter DNA, brings the integrity of DNA evidence into question. Therefore any such evidence used to prove relation has to come from someone who doesn't have an active BIT. Now logically and statistically, it would be highly unlikely that a BIT on its own would make someone genetically related to another specific family, but it is theoretically "possible" and "possible" is all lawyers need to make otherwise concrete evidence, nearly useless

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that BITs alter DNA.
If it did the body would go threw fatal rejection of all the altered tissue every single time.
And there would be a good chance that the BIT would alter/remove the mutant gene complex.

An example of where BITs have obviously altered DNA is with the Scale family Saphire's mother has Snake GSD, Saphire used to be a snake girl, until she manifested, so I would say it does, also every Sidhe mutation, Sidhe are NOT human, therefore their DNA must change.

I would guess (mind you it may be a SWAG) that the BIT can affect the DNA, but if the DNA was not tending that way anyway then the BIT might not go that way. Which is interesting, because IIRC the BIT is said to be at least partly informed by the mutant's idea of what an ideal body is, or in Trevor's case what the mutant fears the most!

Epigenetics. There's a difference between HAVING a gene and the gene being ACTIVE. In Azure's case, her manifestation apparently made her naga genes dormant and "woke up" her human genes.

Or it could be something totally different. Perhaps the BIT acts as a genetic "overlay" over the DNA, altering the effects without actually altering the coded information. Although that would beg the question: if the GSD is in the BIT but not in the genetic code... and supposedly people are born without a BIT... how come she inherited the appearance of a naga?

And then, there's what Carmilla called the "overpattern", some multi-dimensional thing of which the BIT may be just one part...

So, back to the topic at hand, are there any plans for Ayla?

I might possibly have inklings of 3 or 4 ideas of things that might just happen to peripherally mess with Ayla in Charge and/or Kayda stories. Maybe.

Are you afraid yet?

elrodw wrote: So, back to the topic at hand, are there any plans for Ayla?

I might possibly have inklings of 3 or 4 ideas of things that might just happen to peripherally mess with Ayla in Charge and/or Kayda stories. Maybe.

Are you afraid yet?

Do they involve Brick Condoms, and Charge squealing "faster, faster"?

Rose Bunny wrote: Do they involve Brick Condoms, and Charge squealing "faster, faster"?

Maybe she's squealing that, faster and faster?

For that matter... Just how quickly can speedsters run their mouths?

Or what if a speedster got carried away? Dear lord the friction burns...

Ametros wrote: For that matter... Just how quickly can speedsters run their mouths?

was that an oral sex joke? if not, try harder next time... " that's what she said"

Rose Bunny wrote:

Ametros wrote: For that matter... Just how quickly can speedsters run their mouths?

was that an oral sex joke? if not, try harder next time... " that's what she said"

The entendre has been doubled! Also I edited the previous post with another realisation.

Oh wow... I didn't realize Charge and Ayla had gone that far...

Iwasforger03 wrote: Oh wow... I didn't realize Charge and Ayla had gone that far...

I don't think they have, but Elrod said " I have plans", so we are sinking to the lowest denominator with that comment.

Ametros wrote: Or what if a speedster got carried away? Dear lord the friction burns...

Well ...

Speedsters

Dating and loving a speedster is a tricky business. They have a tendency to jump ahead of everyone else, often based on suppositions and assumptions. This is literally because they have to think faster than everyone else, which in turn can make them quite witty in social interaction. The problem is that they seem, to normal eyes, to collapse into depression for no apparent reason. What takes normal people hours or days of browbeating themselves over to accomplish can take a speedster several seconds. If you date a Speedster, be prepared for a rollercoaster ride in more ways than one. In the bedroom, friction is a Speedster’s bane (just like it is everywhere else). In their excitement they may also climax long before they’ve even started to rev their partner’s engine, or even damage them in their haste. The important thing for a Speedster to do in the act of love is to concentrate on timing over speed to slow themselves down; a metronome is an invaluable reminder of the passing of time, and will help a Speedster concentrate on rhythm. In addition, you can purchase speedster-grade lubricants and ‘slippery’ bedclothes that significantly reduce wear and tear on both lovers and furniture. A similar ‘slippery’ body condom is also available for a Speedster’s partner (it’s too dangerous for a Speedster to wear, considering the speeds at which they move, and their reliance on their sense of balance not to run into things). Non-flammable furniture may also be a good idea, particularly on dry days.

elrodw wrote: Are you afraid yet?

I am terribly excited. I am aware of the fact that you can't "scramble" the status quo too much regarding Ayla, but if it can make him and/or the persons around him "evolve" a little it's always a good thing to subject them to some "interesting" problems.

(Also ... two of my favorite Ayla scenes are the debrief of the Dark Phase scenario and the one in which he explains to everyone that he would have liked to have a DFA on his MID ... so ... if you want to go that way at one point ...)

Recent posts in this thread brought to mind Alan Moore's Top 10 series -- more specifically, the (unshown) video in which the Justice League-expys are discovered to be a pedophile ring...

Next for Ayla?

Well, disgusted with certain groups who feel entitled to his money he will withdraw from society and disappear to found a little town of like minded self starters called Ayla's Arroyo, meanwhile the subways will be covered in graffiti of "Who is Ayla Goodkind?"

What if Financier is Ayla?

Iwasforger03 wrote: What if Financier is Ayla?

I have not read the story yet, but yes, what if he is.


(sorry, bad french pun, I will try to do better tomorrow morning).

Alya, dissolusioned by the way people act around her money, leaves Whateley and goes into seclusion in a small select monestary in Tibet, spending her time in meditation and giving cooking lessons to the monks.

Err .. a) "Goodkinds fix things" ... b) Ayla can't cook

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Err .. a) "Goodkinds fix things" ... b) Ayla can't cook

Ayla fixes the fact that he can't cook, then heads to Tibet.

Ayla buys a small town in Montana and renames in Home.

Nah, wrong approach. Ayla buys a big chunk of Tibet from the Chinese (who need the money because, you know, Iron Dragon decided to come out of retirement), to use as a private retreat. The chunk includes a few small things like Lhasa, the Potala etc. The Dalai Lama is invited back, as long as he pays the rent by tutoring Ayla in meditation.

I loved your micro-scene

The Iron Dragon buys it back from Ayla in Gen 2 when he conquers the rest of China... but only if he promises to leave the Dalai Lama alone.

"I want serenity, and I want it now!

... Who do I make the check out to?"

In a way, I hope Financier isn't Ayla.

Because it would mean he has not found a way to solve his problem and it would be quite sad. And yeah maybe after ten years he has "gotten used to it" or made peace with this but it wouldn't be as interesting (in my opinion). Also it's a trope in TG fiction that I think can easily send a message that isn't intended.

(but don't get me wrong, even if they are the same character I am sure the alleged Canon Cabal's plan for this character will surprise us and delight us)

Esar wrote: In a way, I hope Financier isn't Ayla.

Because it would mean he has not found a way to solve his problem and it would be quite sad. And yeah maybe after ten years he has "gotten used to it" or made peace with this but it wouldn't be as interesting (in my opinion). Also it's a trope in TG fiction that I think can easily send a message that isn't intended.

(but don't get me wrong, even if they are the same character I am sure the alleged Canon Cabal's plan for this character will surprise us and delight us)

If a BIT could be rewritten easily, post manifestation, Tia wouldn't be at risk of death by BIT failure, for story purposes Ayla fixing his problem CAN'T happen

mhalpern wrote:

Esar wrote: In a way, I hope Financier isn't Ayla.

Because it would mean he has not found a way to solve his problem and it would be quite sad. And yeah maybe after ten years he has "gotten used to it" or made peace with this but it wouldn't be as interesting (in my opinion). Also it's a trope in TG fiction that I think can easily send a message that isn't intended.

(but don't get me wrong, even if they are the same character I am sure the alleged Canon Cabal's plan for this character will surprise us and delight us)

If a BIT could be rewritten easily, post manifestation, Tia wouldn't be at risk of death by BIT failure, for story purposes Ayla fixing his problem CAN'T happen

True but that's why it's his ongoing quest. I just hope he has not dropped it (because yeah he knows it's perillous, everyone he has asked about it has told him so, every research he has done on the subject have shown that those who have tried have critically failed, and he has had nightmares about what could happen to him. And yet he still wants to find a solution, to be the one to succeed in the end.)

And I think you mean Roulette, not Tia ?

mhalpern wrote:

Esar wrote: In a way, I hope Financier isn't Ayla.

Because it would mean he has not found a way to solve his problem and it would be quite sad. And yeah maybe after ten years he has "gotten used to it" or made peace with this but it wouldn't be as interesting (in my opinion). Also it's a trope in TG fiction that I think can easily send a message that isn't intended.

(but don't get me wrong, even if they are the same character I am sure the alleged Canon Cabal's plan for this character will surprise us and delight us)

If a BIT could be rewritten easily, post manifestation, Tia wouldn't be at risk of death by BIT failure, for story purposes Ayla fixing his problem CAN'T happen

Ayla could fix his problem in theory. It would likely take Mythos Magic and the sacrifice of 243 innocent (or not so innocent) people. This would be to reverse the original spell.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Esar wrote: In a way, I hope Financier isn't Ayla.

Because it would mean he has not found a way to solve his problem and it would be quite sad. And yeah maybe after ten years he has "gotten used to it" or made peace with this but it wouldn't be as interesting (in my opinion). Also it's a trope in TG fiction that I think can easily send a message that isn't intended.

(but don't get me wrong, even if they are the same character I am sure the alleged Canon Cabal's plan for this character will surprise us and delight us)

If a BIT could be rewritten easily, post manifestation, Tia wouldn't be at risk of death by BIT failure, for story purposes Ayla fixing his problem CAN'T happen

Ayla could fix his problem in theory. It would likely take Mythos Magic and the sacrifice of 243 innocent (or not so innocent) people. This would be to reverse the original spell.

Mythos magic is out of the question, even if Sara was doing it and no sacrifice involved, that is lower on the list than Jobe

I think as Sir Lee noted earlier, Ayla discussed the issue with Sara, and Sara basically said 'Nix!' so I doubt that would be an issue. And Sara would be the only person Ayla would trust on the issue. With that said, even knowing the canon cabal doesn't want Sara back, given the amount of time that team Kimba spent with her, when are they going to notice that she's gone. I'll add some speculation about certain things to her thread.... Hee, heee heee

E. E. Nalley wrote: Next for Ayla?

Well, disgusted with certain groups who feel entitled to his money he will withdraw from society and disappear to found a little town of like minded self starters called Ayla's Arroyo, meanwhile the subways will be covered in graffiti of "Who is Ayla Goodkind? "

Not into a city beneath the ocean? That'd be so much better! He's got all the Gads and Devs with him!

Edit: Crossover would not work? There's too many actors to hide an underwater city? No, perhaps not... Hmm... Wait... Neo Atlantis! So cool! Aw man, not enough time... Not gonna get distracted though...

Ayla decides to quit his job, drop out of society, and wear live animals as hats.

Well, that would be better than wearing roadkill as toupees...

Arcanist Lupus wrote: Ayla decides to quit his job, drop out of society, and wear live animals as hats.

Silly, that is what Razorback does, except he uses people.

BTW, that looks much more like Belfatso than Ayla.

Arcanist Lupus wrote: Ayla decides to quit his job, drop out of society, and wear live animals as hats.

Hey, why not? It worked for John 'Grizzly' Adams , both in real life and as portrayed in film and TV by Dan Haggerty (seen here) and others.
Contrary to the film and TV series, the real Adams worked as a fur trapper part of the time, in addition to trapping live wild animals for zoos, and beaver fur hats were still pretty popular as well as practical for someone out in the mountains, so it's a good guess that he actually did wear animals as hats. While he was indeed known for his gentle and deft touch when working with animals, he was still a man of his time.

Also, he was never unjustly accused of murder, unlike the film character. He just was in love with the outdoor life, and hated managing a shoe factory, so he left the family business in his younger brother's hands and went West, eventually reaching San Francisco during the gold rush. After prospecting for a while, he took his love of animals and nature and ran with it. He died while working as an animal trainer for P.T. Barnum, after an old head wound got reopened and he developed an infection.

His biggest legacy, aside from the film and TV show based on his story, was that one his bears, Samson, was the model for the bear on one version of the California state flag (though apparently not the current version). He also founded several zoos and parks, and is one of the legendary figures of early California, like Emperor Norton or Joaquin Murrieta .

(Crap, this is making me homesick. I never felt this way about Connecticut, even though I was born and grew up there and lived their twice as long. Sorry, Doc, I know it's your home, but I just don't belong in Georgia, not even Athens. If I ever get back to the Bay, I will never set foot east of the Rockies again if I can help it.)

Well, I've discovered truly what Ayla gets up to.