Question The Micro-Scenes Discussion thread

Anne wrote: Uh huh! Sure Loki is only responsible for Earthquakes, and....!!!! Well He will never take responsibility for anything else, it is your fault you fell into his trap! Here's wondering if Murphy is actually hosting a fragment of Loki?!?

Loki could be one; the odds mangling, and the teleportation.

Hela could be another possibility; the resurrection of the nearby corpses.

One of their offspring might be a possibility, but none of them really seem to fit, and shoe-horning someone else's creations into your own conceptual boxes is impolite.

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{Rant}If it doesn't fit, then possibly your conception is not what they had in mind, no matter how much you wanted it to be.

"If you wanted something that badly, then go write your own, and stop complaining at other people when their original work doesn't fit your narrow definitions..."{/Rant}

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I like the idea of some of the Underdogs being hidden containers for something larger though...

Some delicious possibilities.

It's also that they are only Underdogs in the artificial setting of "High School", and in the appropriate context, they would be very effective; Miasma, and, Aquerna, being two good examples...

Mister D wrote:

Anne wrote: Uh huh! Sure Loki is only responsible for Earthquakes, and....!!!! Well He will never take responsibility for anything else, it is your fault you fell into his trap! Here's wondering if Murphy is actually hosting a fragment of Loki?!?

Loki could be one; the odds mangling, and the teleportation.

Hela could be another possibility; the resurrection of the nearby corpses.

One of their offspring might be a possibility, but none of them really seem to fit, and shoe-horning someone else's creations into your own conceptual boxes is impolite.

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{Rant}If it doesn't fit, then possibly your conception is not what they had in mind, no matter how much you wanted it to be.

"If you wanted something that badly, then go write your own, and stop complaining at other people when their original work doesn't fit your narrow definitions..."{/Rant}

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I like the idea of some of the Underdogs being hidden containers for something larger though...

Some delicious possibilities.

It's also that they are only Underdogs in the artificial setting of "High School", and in the appropriate context, they would be very effective; Miasma, and, Aquerna, being two good examples...

I'm doing my best to at least write fan fiction! Also Loki is just the sort to pretend to be less than he is for a joke! Hela not so much, but Murphy really isn't as weak as she puts out. Her power set is pretty good, and like a lot of people who aren't entirely OP she has had to learn to use what she has effectively. Similar to what Imp has done. Remember people have no clue what her actual power set is! Maybe Carson does.

Sorry if i came across as being intense/annoyed-at-your-work.

(I'm sure that there's a German word for this...)

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The part where i made the {Rant}{/Rant} comments, was not aimed at anyone who writes and posts here, but more aimed at the sort of people who have scared the authors away in the past.

As a musician, i have had to deal with "Backseat Drivers" myself, and i know how annoying/discouraging it can be.

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And, yes!

Because we are only seeing the snapshots that the authors present as the final-edited-versions, we don't see all of the planning/possibilities that they considered/discarded. Something like a 10:1 ratio, from Unedited-Work:Final-Release ratio, depending upon how much time they have available.

It's why i find the FanFic threads, and the Micro-Scenes threads, to be fascinating, as we get a glimpse of how other writers approach their work.

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And i don't see Murphy as weak.

Anyone who attends Ms. Dennon's MA-for-Bricks class, is not weak or under-powered.

(Yes, Murphy has her reasons, that she goes into fairly clearly in-story, and as someone with ADHD, i can relate.)

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As for Loki, he is a very misunderstood, and, very misrepresented, part of the Norse pantheon.

"History is written by the victors..."

And most of what we know about the Norse Pantheons, came from after the split between the Priest functions and the King functions took place, so the Shaman/Trickster/Holy-Fool functionality was deprecated/deliberately-suppressed, as it wasn't politically useful.

Add in, that most of what survived was filtered by the PR spin that the Christian writers/editors put in place, which is why a lot of the Mittel-European "Trickster" spirits were suppressed.

One interesting argument in favour of this being deliberately done, was the way that the various priesthoods were treated in South America. Their writings were burnt, and the priests were slaughtered.

This could have been done in Europe, which is why the few written forms we find are carved on metal objects owned by the nobility, and, carved objects that were found in sacrifice-pits/burial-mounds. These were the few that survived the suppressions.

Yes, there were some forms written down by natives who became monks, but those are the exceptions that slipped past the censors, and, are still having their validity argued about.

(Yes, i would have liked to have studied this professionally, but i chose engineering as i like to eat... )

Anne wrote: I'm doing my best to at least write fan fiction! Also Loki is just the sort to pretend to be less than he is for a joke! Hela not so much, but Murphy really isn't as weak as she puts out. Her power set is pretty good, and like a lot of people who aren't entirely OP she has had to learn to use what she has effectively. Similar to what Imp has done. Remember people have no clue what her actual power set is! Maybe Carson does.

We've had a few fanfics about someone (either an existing character or an OP) being the avatar of Loki. My own stories put Cheese in that role, while also indicating that Loki is the same being as the Greek Chthonic (i.e., not one of the major Olympians) goddess Eris. (All Hail Discordia)

Mister D wrote:

Anne wrote: Uh huh! Sure Loki is only responsible for Earthquakes, and....!!!! Well He will never take responsibility for anything else, it is your fault you fell into his trap! Here's wondering if Murphy is actually hosting a fragment of Loki?!?

Loki could be one; the odds mangling, and the teleportation.

Hela could be another possibility; the resurrection of the nearby corpses.

As I recall, it was Odin who knew the runes for altering fortune and travel. And, it was his decision to cede rulership of Helheim to Hela. Hela receives the dead that aren't chosen by Odin and Freyja for their own halls, but doesn't do the killing: Od's valkyries take a more direct hand. Ravens are his, and have a taste for war-dead. Also, his horse is a metaphor for a casket borne by four pall-bearers.

Mister D wrote: One of their offspring might be a possibility, but none of them really seem to fit, and shoe-horning someone else's creations into your own conceptual boxes is impolite.

Incest tends to be more of a Greek specialty, unless one believes what Loki had to say about Njordr, Freyr, and Freyja.

Oh, their kids with someone else?

Loki, by:
a wicked woman: from whom every ogress on earth is descended
Angrboða: Jormungandr, Hela, Fenrir
Sigyn: Nari or Narfi, or Narfi and Nari, or Narfi and Vali
Svaðilfari: Sleipnir
Tyr's wife: unnamed [if you can believe Loki]
Glut: Eisa (ashes) and Einmyria (embers) [limited attestation]
"what Loki and Odin did in the ancient past should not be spoken of in front of others, and that ancient matters should always remain hidden" Note that at least two of Odin's boys were told their Momma was a Jotun.

Hela: no known sprogs, even if Baldr and Nanna had had an open relationship.

Mister D wrote:

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{Rant}If it doesn't fit, then possibly your conception is not what they had in mind, no matter how much you wanted it to be.

"If you wanted something that badly, then go write your own, and stop complaining at other people when their original work doesn't fit your narrow definitions..."{/Rant}

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Rorsmand would like you to know he officially hates you guys for helping me complicate his life further.

As it is, in my stories I ship Loki/Brigantia for Narfi's parents, Loki/Odin for Valí.

Edit: Neither one would hesitate to (fullerene-reinforced, devisor) duct-tape Loki to a tree in the Grove if the Lie-Smith dropped in.

To be fair, I wrote the first two pieces with Victor von Maas as Eris (the one where s/he confronts the 'Lympies , and the one where Jadis and Alya discuss that turn of events ) before you were even in the group, I think. An early version of it (which I lost and had to re-write) was posted to the older forum just before it crashed. The bit about the same entity also being Loki (and about Timothy Leary being a previous incarnation ) was mentioned in the forum at the time I posted the version in this forum, but not actually part of the stories.

I am really starting to fucking hate Kunena Forum.

Anyway, to re-write what I had written before the forum software deleted it for too many links (no chance to edit, just kill all the changes, great):

For the sake of completion, there are also this scene where Imperious loses his shit at Cheese , Metro's first convo with Ponygirl , and the follow up with her, Judicator, and Cheese , and as an aside, the the discussion between Circe and Phase about the Priory of Sion, the Goodkind family, and the Bloodline alluded to in the first Ponygirl micro.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: To be fair, I wrote the first two pieces with Victor von Maas as Eris (the one where s/he confronts the 'Lympies , and the one where Jadis and Alya discuss that turn of events ) before you were even in the group, I think.

I wasn't complaining, though for one scene I've been working on it would have been nice if Cheese were Swiss, not Austrian.

It's just that Kristian 'Rorsmand' Holm believes he has enough insanity in his life as Count Mads' designated minder, and would already be happy to invite Fen to take a long walk off a short pier in a busy shipping lane (if it would do any good). But Mads' younger brother Lars is twelve, and probably headed to Whateley in a couple of years, followed by Kris' younger sister.

I would have written more for Cheese, but to be perfectly honest, I've very hard to write for someone smarter than you are. Jadis is smarter than I am, but not THAT much smarter; I can see how she'd think and react.

But Cheese? Cheese IS that much smarter. It's rather humbling to try and conceive the whims and wants and wherefores of someone that smart

null0trooper wrote:

Mister D wrote:

Anne wrote: Uh huh! Sure Loki is only responsible for Earthquakes, and....!!!! Well He will never take responsibility for anything else, it is your fault you fell into his trap! Here's wondering if Murphy is actually hosting a fragment of Loki?!?

Loki could be one; the odds mangling, and the teleportation.

Hela could be another possibility; the resurrection of the nearby corpses.

As I recall, it was Odin who knew the runes for altering fortune and travel.

Yesyes, this is true, but consider how slippery and shiftery Loki is. It is hard to pin a Trickster in one place.

And, it was his decision to cede rulership of Helheim to Hela. Hela receives the dead that aren't chosen by Odin and Freyja for their own halls, but doesn't do the killing: (snip)

Like i said in the previous post,

As for Loki, he is a very misunderstood, and, very misrepresented, part of the Norse pantheon.

"History is written by the victors..."

And most of what we know about the Norse Pantheons, came from after the split between the Priest functions and the King functions took place, so the Shaman/Trickster/Holy-Fool functionality was deprecated/deliberately-suppressed, as it wasn't politically useful.

Add in, that most of what survived was filtered by the PR spin that the Christian writers/editors put in place, which is why a lot of the Mittel-European "Trickster" spirits were suppressed.

It all depends upon when/where you start counting from.

Thor/Odin/Tyr/Loki are very different people when you look at the late Viking stories, than when you look at the Northern German/Dutch stories from 3-4 centuries before the Norse tales.

Very different flavour of characters and flavour of behaviour.

In some of the Dutch tales, it is made more explicit that Wotan is half-giant, and his interactions with Mutter Holda, who evolved into Hel in the Norse pantheon, give a very different flavour to their relationship. The stories about Wotan and his liking for Blueberry jam, are extremely entertaining, but also makes the Grim-meathook-future/Apocalypse-Junkies that the Vikings turned these whimsical characters into, stand out even more.

Remember there is no mention of Tiewaz, in the Norse pantheon. Tiewaz was a northern European version of Hermes Trismegistus, a sacred hermaphrodite. (Kinda, sorta..) (Edit: I think that i spelt the name correctly. Goes to check source material...)

Tiewaz was the egregore that evolved into Tyr, and Loki, when the Priest-King functions split into two separate classes of behaviour, which is also when a lot of the shamanistic paths were deprecated.

Taking someone that was relatively balanced, and splitting it into a spirit of Law, and, a spirit of Chaos, and you get the confusion/disagreements that still ring out to this day... (With a large number of attached bells... )

Mister D wrote: One of their offspring might be a possibility, but none of them really seem to fit, and shoe-horning someone else's creations into your own conceptual boxes is impolite.

Incest tends to be more of a Greek specialty, unless one believes what Loki had to say about Njordr, Freyr, and Freyja.

(snip)

Hela: no known sprogs, even if Baldr and Nanna had had an open relationship.

Again it depends upon which of the source material you work from, and, which of the academic theories you listen to.

From the Goddess-centred perspective of Mutter Holda, she was mother/wife/mourner to Tiewaz, and/or Wotan, every year, with her living the different roles, at the appropriate times of year.. (Also looked at from the perspective of the Vanir...)

And this is not including all of the different regional-variations, that cropped up from tribe-to-tribe within (the territory-that-became) Northern Germany.

Again, i refer you to this comment.

Mister D wrote:

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{Rant}If it doesn't fit, then possibly your conception is not what they had in mind, no matter how much you wanted it to be.

"If you wanted something that badly, then go write your own, and stop complaining at other people when their original work doesn't fit your narrow definitions..."{/Rant}

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When dealing with the stories about the gods, and all of their various behaviours/stupidities, there's always scope for the use of Narrativium, when extending their tales in your own way.

Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Rorsmand would like you to know he officially hates you guys for helping me complicate his life further.

I am always happy to help. (For a given value of "help"... )

As it is, in my stories I ship Loki/Brigantia for Narfi's parents, Loki/Odin for Valí.

Edit: Neither one would hesitate to (fullerene-reinforced, devisor) duct-tape Loki to a tree in the Grove if the Lie-Smith dropped in.

Mister D wrote: Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Also remember that these tales were told over many a barrel of mead. So much drunken ramblings are had.

NJM1564 wrote:

Mister D wrote: Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Also remember that these tales were told over many a barrel of mead. So much drunken ramblings are had.

Asking bard to tell his tales without at least a hogshead of mead or two is bard abuse!

Anne wrote:

NJM1564 wrote:

Mister D wrote: Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Also remember that these tales were told over many a barrel of mead. So much drunken ramblings are had.

Asking bard to tell his tales without at least a hogshead of mead or two is bard abuse!

Beer, ale, wine, scotch, brandy, etc. also work.

Lol! Beer!

Anne wrote:

NJM1564 wrote:

Mister D wrote: Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Also remember that these tales were told over many a barrel of mead. So much drunken ramblings are had.

Asking bard to tell his tales without at least a hogshead of mead or two is bard abuse!

With some bards listening to his tails also require alcohol. Some of the stories here need a pint or two too after.

NJM1564 wrote:

Anne wrote:

NJM1564 wrote:

Mister D wrote: Remember that a lot of the original stories were made to be chanted/sung, and they were always altered slightly to make sure that the skald got asked back to do another gig...

Also remember that these tales were told over many a barrel of mead. So much drunken ramblings are had.

Asking bard to tell his tales without at least a hogshead of mead or two is bard abuse!

With some bards listening to his tails also require alcohol. Some of the stories here need a pint or two too after.

Well you can't give the bard mead and not at least sell some to the audience, and a willing wench or other tail or two always makes the listening easier!

Anne wrote: Well you can't give the bard mead and not at least sell some to the audience, and a willing wench or other tail or two always makes the listening easier!

It's not a good idea to peddle home-made mead in the U.S. Many of the commercial brands I've tried rate about even with the stuff I'd save for cooking or for people who are already tipsy but still thirsty (It could be that they've just needed aging, so YMMV)

Obviously, I'd probably side with 'Shine on some matters.

null0trooper wrote:

Anne wrote: Well you can't give the bard mead and not at least sell some to the audience, and a willing wench or other tail or two always makes the listening easier!

It's not a good idea to peddle home-made mead in the U.S. Many of the commercial brands I've tried rate about even with the stuff I'd save for cooking or for people who are already tipsy but still thirsty (It could be that they've just needed aging, so YMMV)

Obviously, I'd probably side with 'Shine on some matters.

Good thing barding died out long before there was a US then huh.

NJM1564 wrote: Good thing barding died out long before there was a US then huh.

Not sure what putting armor on horses has to do with the topic, but I suppose it could be.

Thanks for your latest scene Nul, I'll have to consider that as I continue to work on Speakeasy's Nightmare. Oh dear what do you suppose Goth-Moggie will do with the mouse he has caught? How extreme might his punishment be for the person who trapped his daughter, who dared to use her for his nefarious ends? I think that Speakeasy is going to look a lot different if Gothy lets him go! Will anyone recognize him if Gothy dumps him at the gates of the school?

Another interesting article that discusses the differences between versions of myths, and how they are changed over time, https://aeon.co/essays/why-is-pop-culture-obsessed-with-battles-between-good-and-evil

If the diety that is Zeus, also evolved into the diety that is Wotan, and, also evolved into the diety that is Odin, and they each manifested in different Avatars, then what would happen when they met at Whateley?

Mister D wrote: If the diety that is Zeus, also evolved into the diety that is Wotan, and, also evolved into the diety that is Odin, and they each manifested in different Avatars, then what would happen when they met at Whateley?

I think we've seen a little bit of that in canon with Kayda getting surprised by a visit from Mato, who is not Kodiak, nor is he Makwa, the bear totem to the Ojibwe. And yet, Bear is Bear.

null0trooper wrote:

Mister D wrote: If the diety that is Zeus, also evolved into the diety that is Wotan, and, also evolved into the diety that is Odin, and they each manifested in different Avatars, then what would happen when they met at Whateley?

I think we've seen a little bit of that in canon with Kayda getting surprised by a visit from Mato, who is not Kodiak, nor is he Makwa, the bear totem to the Ojibwe. And yet, Bear is Bear.

Nor is Mato Grizzly... Just sayin'! And Griz might disagree as to whether or not Bear is Bear, Yet like I posit, Coyote is coyote!

*Ahem* Regarding the multiple bear-spirits around... I would suggest that none of them actually is "THE spirit of the bears" (or even of a particular species of bear).
At least, not in the sense that the mere existence of a species mystically creates a spirit linking all of them in some way.
Instead, I posit that thee are all different spirits with their own origin tales who, for their own reasons, chose to "bond" with a population of animals and acquired some of their features. It's not an exclusive relationship either -- there might be both major spirits and minor spirits bonding with the same species, which would explain the often-implied distinction of "a squirrel spirit" and "The Spirit of the Squirrel". Also, the boundaries for the bond may vary -- some spirits may be bonded only to a particular population of a particular subspecies, while other, like Anansi, might bond to an entire order in a continent-wide reach.
That would also explain why in different regions/cultures animal spirits have different attributes (benefactor, trickster, villain, joy, death, sexuality...) -- it's that the dominant spirit in that region has those attributes.

Sir Lee wrote: *Ahem* Regarding the multiple bear-spirits around... I would suggest that none of them actually is "THE spirit of the bears" (or even of a particular species of bear).
At least, not in the sense that the mere existence of a species mystically creates a spirit linking all of them in some way.
Instead, I posit that thee are all different spirits with their own origin tales who, for their own reasons, chose to "bond" with a population of animals and acquired some of their features. It's not an exclusive relationship either -- there might be both major spirits and minor spirits bonding with the same species, which would explain the often-implied distinction of "a squirrel spirit" and "The Spirit of the Squirrel". Also, the boundaries for the bond may vary -- some spirits may be bonded only to a particular population of a particular subspecies, while other, like Anansi, might bond to an entire order in a continent-wide reach.
That would also explain why in different regions/cultures animal spirits have different attributes (benefactor, trickster, villain, joy, death, sexuality...) -- it's that the dominant spirit in that region has those attributes.

Which would mean that even though they are related, as in one evolved from the other, Zeus, is different from Dyaus Pitar, is different from Wotan, is different from Odin, and the Norse version, is different from the Germanic version, is different from the Icelandic version, is different from the Marvel version ( Or is it DC?).

An interesting narrative approach towards this can be found in Neil Gaiman's "American Gods", though, please read the book before watching Season 1 of the series.

Mister D wrote: Which would mean that even though they are related, as in one evolved from the other, Zeus, is different from Dyaus Pitar, is different from Wotan, is different from Odin, and the Norse version, is different from the Germanic version, is different from the Icelandic version, is different from the Marvel version ( Or is it DC?).

An interesting narrative approach towards this can be found in Neil Gaiman's "American Gods", though, please read the book before watching Season 1 of the series.

And please be Low-Key about it.

Bek D Corbin wrote:

Mister D wrote: Which would mean that even though they are related, as in one evolved from the other, Zeus, is different from Dyaus Pitar, is different from Wotan, is different from Odin, and the Norse version, is different from the Germanic version, is different from the Icelandic version, is different from the Marvel version ( Or is it DC?).

An interesting narrative approach towards this can be found in Neil Gaiman's "American Gods", though, please read the book before watching Season 1 of the series.

And please be Low-Key about it.

I woden worry. We're all, like, super friends here!

Schol-R-LEA wrote: At last, I have it. The secret. The Equation. All I need to do is complete the ritual and it will be in my grasp.

Ayep. That's what they all say .

Uh... what is that "discussion thread" in the Micro-Scenes supposed to be about? Some Youtube video with the Grunts? I can't remember right now something like that being mentioned... Damn, I need more hours of sleep, my neurons are misfiring...

Sir Lee wrote: Uh... what is that "discussion thread" in the Micro-Scenes supposed to be about? Some Youtube video with the Grunts? I can't remember right now something like that being mentioned... Damn, I need more hours of sleep, my neurons are misfiring...

I suspect that it references this micro-scene .

Count Mads only thinks he's going to arrive in Copenhagen without anyone noticing when he goes home for the winter holiday break.

Sir Lee wrote: Uh... what is that "discussion thread" in the Micro-Scenes supposed to be about? Some Youtube video with the Grunts? I can't remember right now something like that being mentioned... Damn, I need more hours of sleep, my neurons are misfiring...

Wouldn't micro scenes be about viral videos?

Gah, yes, I thought I had linked to it in the micro but I guess I didn't.

I also noticed that I forgot the 'basewhine' comment I had intended from the beginning. Stone Soup is a somewhat infamous 'gray hat' from Northern Ireland, a manifestor able to create usable, physically stable food in significant amounts (up to 1220Kg at once if he is willing to risk burnout, or more than double that in one day if he goes slower; he rarely makes that much so quickly, as he can be more productive if he paces himself with a more sustainable rate), and something of a political agitator.

Also, he had been in the Dylans when he was at Whateley ('food' apparently is a pretty broad category where his power is concerned), and didn't shy away from continuing that hobby after graduation.

While the UK government does have him on retainer in case of an emergency that causes food shortages (it's a lot easier to get him to a disaster zone than the tons of food he can produce in a week), they also have him under house arrest/protective custody right now. He really isn't supposed to be online at all lately, and he's not clever enough to avoid using a screen name that is obviously close to his official codename.

I have to respond to one of those user ids.. I agree Aang would make a good president, i would say more but it'd get too political.

Just to clarify: the 2500 Kg rate in one day would leave him incapacitated for several days afterwards. He can produce about 800 Kg per day for about six days before he can't continue, and can produce perhaps 450 Kg - still a tremendous amount - more or less indefinitely.

The mass figures are somewhat misleading, however; the kind of foodstuffs he is creating is a significant factor, and it is believed that total caloric value matters as well, but testing never really pinned down just what factors affected it and what his full limits were.

While his agreement is with the UK government (at least as of 2007, I gather that by Gen 2 that there have been some shake-ups in the UK and the - former? - EU in general in the WU so I don't know if NI is still part of the Union in 2016), he does do humanitarian aid around the world, but his handlers watch him like a hawk.

Giving him a certain degree of freedom to get him to cooperate, rather than locking him up for good, is almost more trouble for the government than it is worth. Almost.

Oh, and he graduated from Whateley in the class of 1998.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: Also, he had been in the Dylans when he was at Whateley ('food' apparently is a pretty broad category where his power is concerned), and didn't shy away from continuing that hobby after graduation.

The term does get a bit hazy when dealing with mushrooms and cacti.

null0trooper wrote:

Schol-R-LEA wrote: Also, he had been in the Dylans when he was at Whateley ('food' apparently is a pretty broad category where his power is concerned), and didn't shy away from continuing that hobby after graduation.

The term does get a bit hazy when dealing with mushrooms and cacti.

This is also true of certain leafy greens and spices. Nutmeg, cloves, and cinnamon for sure are ones I know of that can cause things to go hazy.

And then there's lettuce... which produces opiois.
And both tomato and potato are in the belladonna family.

Yeah but lettuce generally doesn't contain enough opoids to get you high. Now, poppy seed? That's another story! If you eat a poppy seed muffin, and get in an accident you may get cited for DUI. I got warned about those when I pulled a hot pee test in the army! "You're hot for opium!" "Huh Sarge, I don't use anything like that!" Room search, found the tag end of a half dozen poppy seed muffins in fridge, nothing else except "Your locker is a mess!" oh and njp of extra duty, I forget what, just because they could as far as I could tell. Peeved me a bit!

Tennyo the evil librarian strikes again!

Now I want more evil librarian Tennyo.

Angeldude wrote: Tennyo the evil librarian strikes again!

Now I want more evil librarian Tennyo.

The book actually exists.

https://www.amazon.com/Unauthorized-History-Hello-Kitty-Behind/dp/1475057164

Angeldude wrote: Tennyo the evil librarian strikes again!

Now I want more evil librarian Tennyo.

The book actually exists.

https://www.amazon.com/Unauthorized-History-Hello-Kitty-Behind/dp/1475057164

Mister D wrote:

Angeldude wrote: Tennyo the evil librarian strikes again!

Now I want more evil librarian Tennyo.

The book actually exists.

https://www.amazon.com/Unauthorized-History-Hello-Kitty-Behind/dp/1475057164

But how did the Whateley Library get a copy if it was published in 2012? And why did Bloodwolf have it checked out?

Valentine wrote:

Mister D wrote:

Angeldude wrote: Tennyo the evil librarian strikes again!

Now I want more evil librarian Tennyo.

The book actually exists.

https://www.amazon.com/Unauthorized-History-Hello-Kitty-Behind/dp/1475057164

But how did the Whateley Library get a copy if it was published in 2012? And why did Bloodwolf have it checked out?

Well, a different timeline for one thing, plus probably due to Jade and Wondercute doing a write-in campaign to get it published as soon as possible. As for why Bloodwolf was reading it, he probably sees Jade wearing Hello Kitty stuff so much and assumes it is some ancient god connected to her, and he wishes to learn all he can about it and its possible weaknesses. Either that or Jade made a not-so-subtle suggestion he should read it.

The best part was how Tennyo punished him for attempting to dodge her by... announcing publicly the name of the book. Bloodwolf will never live it down...

Sir Lee wrote: The best part was how Tennyo punished him for attempting to dodge her by... announcing publicly the name of the book. Bloodwolf will never live it down...

Yeah it was, I'm still snickering about it even as I write this. Oh man, the author will hopefully write more of these!

@Null - OMG, I just realized! Grimes must be so triggered, having another student named Estelle? ... It's not like it's a very common name, is it?

If she ever yells at them with the wrong names, that'd be hilarious!

The way you structured those scenes! I can just imagine it, like a TV Show!

Malady wrote: @Null - OMG, I just realized! Grimes must be so triggered, having another student named Estelle? ... It's not like it's a very common name, is it?

At least three women in my family have been named Estelle, including my (maternal) grandmother!

Other than that, I figure the high-powered Mystic Arts classes of 2010 and 2011 (Fey, Charmer, Absinthe, Whisper, and others) are still collectively remembered with a shudder in 2016.

I don't know where the right place to ask this would be, but with all the talk about athames, what kind of limits are there on what an athame can be? Like, can one have a gun or gun-shaped artifact used as an athame?

Angeldude wrote: I don't know where the right place to ask this would be, but with all the talk about athames, what kind of limits are there on what an athame can be? Like, can one have a gun or gun-shaped artifact used as an athame?

Only Caitlin.

Angeldude wrote: I don't know where the right place to ask this would be

Under Concepts/Big Picture is where such topics regarding how magic in the WU is meant to be discussed. If the question were related to the subject coming up in a story, then in the discussion thread for the story.

Angeldude wrote: but with all the talk about athames, what kind of limits are there on what an athame can be? Like, can one have a gun or gun-shaped artifact used as an athame?

You do realize that an athame is a ceremonial knife used in certain Western magical traditions?
From a practical standpoint: no.

If you want to write about an enchanted weapon that is a handgun, then a handgun or gun-shaped object (effectively an odd-shaped club or sap) would work. A character that uses a firearm as a focus (for their mental concentration or as a magical conduit to the projectile) might even use a handgun for that. It could be a vessel/hallow for a spirit.

I could see a bayonet being consecrated as an athame, but since the user would need to detach it to use it properly, again a blade purchased or made for the purpose makes more sense. For example, a former soldier who trained and fought with one might be shell-shocked enough to use such a bayonet.

Edit: There is a Micro-Scene in which my OC uses the act of firing a weapon as a concentration focus. However, if someone pulled out a handgun in a group ritual he would treat it as an attack with lethal intent.

Figured it was worth a shot.

Valentine wrote: Only Caitlin.

Yes.

Angeldude wrote: I don't know where the right place to ask this would be, but with all the talk about athames, what kind of limits are there on what an athame can be? Like, can one have a gun or gun-shaped artifact used as an athame?

Possibly, but it would require a level of skill in two different arts for it to be successful, knife-making, and gun-smithing.

There's a number of really silly looking examples here, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=knife+pistol&t=ffsb&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Facidcow.com%2Fpics%2F20140904%2Fknife_gun_46.jpg

One problem that might take place, would be that when the weapon is consecrated by the maker, it is only the bullets that are in the magazine that would be magical. The reloads would not. A nice result to find out when you really needed them...

Another thought from the PoV of the symbolism involved, is that the athame is traditionally a knife as it is a symbol of Air, whereas a gun would be seen as a blunt weapon/club, hence a symbol of Earth.

Having that form of opposition in a magical tool would make for a tool that is not very good at doing one thing or the other.

Having a student learn this, while safely within the teaching environment of Whateley, would be an interesting, and, time-expensive, lesson, so while the MA dept would probably discourage this, they would not forbid it, as there are some students that only really learn from trying and failing.

It would also be really funny for Caitlin to make a fully functional one for Grimes...

More generally, are there any restriction on the shape/size/features of the knife? We know that Fey once used Malachim's Feather in lieu of an athame, but that's Fey, and MF is a mystical weapon in its own right. Can one use, say... a claymore as an athame? Or a fencing foil? What about a balisong? A kukri? A kris? A breadknife? A karambit? A Swiss Army Knife? A butter knife (blunt in both edge and point)? What about a sai, which is not really an edged weapon?

I could easily see a kukri as an athame, that is if it is the knife I'm thinking of. For a lot of practitioners, the material, and even method of manufacture of the knife will affect how useful it will be as an athame, I'd suspect that something smith made will have much different properties (magically at least) from something stamped out in a factory.

Sir Lee wrote: More generally, are there any restriction on the shape/size/features of the knife? We know that Fey once used Malachim's Feather in lieu of an athame, but that's Fey, and MF is a mystical weapon in its own right. Can one use, say... a claymore as an athame? Or a fencing foil? What about a balisong? A kukri? A kris? A breadknife? A karambit? A Swiss Army Knife? A butter knife (blunt in both edge and point)? What about a sai, which is not really an edged weapon?

That would depend, as usual, on your tradition and how you needed to finesse the energies going through the working.

OTO formalism associates swords as magical weapons with fire and with Mars, while the athame is associated with air. One table in Liber 777 associates the athame with "hot and moist air" (literally breath, ruach) ... magic as a personal and intentional act. I would say that it has to have a symbolic edge (as blunt as its wielder or not) because by its nature, magic can harm its wielder as readily as its target. Or heal by the same.

So a claymore and other things meant for warfare and its practice (or representing martial rank) would likely also fall short unless someone is either working magic in that realm or is big enough that it might as well be a knife. Foils are meant for practice at using a sword, and sais lack any edge, so double fail there.

There may also be an issue in that swords are far harder to conceal than knives. The field isn't called the occult without a reason. In that vein, I'd bet that there are enchanted swiss army knives and multitools out there.

Some spells/practices I've read about do require a kitchen knife.

But if someone is determined to hammer in nails with a screwdriver or break their heart trying by using a sai, a handgun, or a rubber ducky in place of an athame, I would see it as one way of letting survival of the fittest run its course.

Well using something like a butter knife (the barest hint of an edge...) gives you plausible denyability in some circumstances, no I don't have a knife, Of course it is only symbolic of a knife, The intention is that it doesn't have to function as your weapon. Indeed, if the indications are as I'm reading them in reading about Caitlyn's harvester, using your athame as a weapon might be a bad idea for you! Unless you make a very specific type of knife that is to use as an athame.

It helps to think of an athame as a doctor's scalpel rather than a knife. Knives are often used as general purpose tools, but an athame is not a general purpose tool. It needs to be kept pure, physically and metaphysically. If you're using it to open boxes or tighten bolts, you're going to be spending a lot of time doing purification rituals.

Kettlekorn wrote: It helps to think of an athame as a doctor's scalpel rather than a knife. Knives are often used as general purpose tools, but an athame is not a general purpose tool. It needs to be kept pure, physically and metaphysically. If you're using it to open boxes or tighten bolts, you're going to be spending a lot of time doing purification rituals.

What about the Granny Weatherwax headology approach, where it doesn't matter what you are using, as long as you can get the mental symbolism right?

Granted that Granny Weatherwax has had decades of practise to get it right, and we haven't heard much of the stories about when she was learning...

I know at least two Wiccans who use this approach, explicitly because it was described by Pratchett, and they seem happy with the results that they are getting.

Mister D wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: It helps to think of an athame as a doctor's scalpel rather than a knife. Knives are often used as general purpose tools, but an athame is not a general purpose tool. It needs to be kept pure, physically and metaphysically. If you're using it to open boxes or tighten bolts, you're going to be spending a lot of time doing purification rituals.

What about the Granny Weatherwax headology approach, where it doesn't matter what you are using, as long as you can get the mental symbolism right?

Granted that Granny Weatherwax has had decades of practise to get it right, and we haven't heard much of the stories about when she was learning...

I know at least two Wiccans who use this approach, explicitly because it was described by Pratchett, and they seem happy with the results that they are getting.

Eldritch (JG) put it best.

Siblings & Savages wrote: "Chulkris said your idea wouldn't work."

"It wouldn't. For her." Caitlin shrugged. "To you all, what you put in is personal, has symbolic significance, it matters. To me, it's just another cog in the machine. Where the parts came from doesn't matter as long as they fit and work."

Sure, if you use a different magical tradition from the one Grimes is teaching, you're going to be working with different rules that might permit all sorts of silly things. But when you're attending a class on painting, you should probably leave your pottery tools at home and bring your paintbrush like everybody else.

Picasso, Dali, and the other vanguards of the modern art movement were all classically trained painters. They could all paint a photo-real portrait or landscape. They weren't great because they broke the rules of painting, they were great because they knew and understood the rules and broke them for very specific reasons and purpose. This is what separates the greats of modern art and people who sling paint on a canvas for no reason.

E. E. Nalley wrote: Picasso, Dali, and the other vanguards of the modern art movement were all classically trained painters. They could all paint a photo-real portrait or landscape. They weren't great because they broke the rules of painting, they were great because they knew and understood the rules and broke them for very specific reasons and purpose. This is what separates the greats of modern art and people who sling paint on a canvas for no reason.

The same goes with authors. The truly good ones can turn out stuff that is close to letter perfect to the CMS (Chicago manual of style) long before they try breaking the rules. I tend to use parentheses when I should use commas and other punctuation... Oh and ellipsis too!

You say that like there's something... wrong... with ellipses.

There is nothing wrong with ellipsis per se, but I in particular tend to use them a bit too much.

W. Shatner wrote: I... only use... THEM... ... when trying... to... emote.

Here it is! Well, looking at the newest Micro-Scene, it appears that this is what happens when the discussion turns to armor! Good scene by the way.

You have no idea how badly I want low country boil right now...

That's the price I paid for writing that scene.

Yeah, if I was working even somewhat regularly that might have sent me off to see what Red Lobster (r) has on the menu! I do like crawfish gumbo!

Anne wrote: I could easily see a kukri as an athame, that is if it is the knife I'm thinking of.

Just to be clear, this is a typical Kukri, which is the pattern of knife most associated with thew Ghurkas. This one probably isn't made of mithril quenched in demonic ichor, however.



Speaking of which, did Toni ever give that one a name? It would be out of character for her if she didn't, unless she were specifically warned not to for some reason.

I should add, as a final note, that while I am by no means well versed in the topic, I know that as late as WWI several major types of sidearm did include a bayonet lug (or had them added on later), including the Webley top-break revolver (!) and the broom-handle and stocked carbine variants of the Mauser C96 (given that Mauser were also known for rifles, this makes a bit more sense... I guess...). I couldn't find any pictures of the Mauser C96 with a mounted bayonet, but I did find a Webley mk. V with a mounted Pritchard bayonet attachment.

@Rose - So informative, on how she's changed! Especially that line at the end!

Right, Metro isn't actually a mutant, IIRC!

... And she can't go in the sims with the rest of the Misfits either! So sad!

What? Is Speakeasy's Nightmare too dark to discuss now?

Well Mal, I think it's also because he irritates her, and she wouldn't mind as much beating on him.

Malady wrote: Right, Metro isn't actually a mutant, IIRC!

Not exactly, no... Mads and Tom aren't even from this universe, in fact, but rather hail from the Shadowrun 'verse (some time around 2040, right Null? Late enough that the Sixth World was pretty well underway, anyway)... but I seem to recall that there was some speculation that the bodies they currently inhabit might be those of mutants, albeit ones who were murdered around the time they entered Whateley's dimension.

Rose Bunny wrote: Well Mal, I think it's also because he irritates her, and she wouldn't mind as much beating on him.

Beside that, there is the hint that Mads is slightly masochistic. At least that is the way I read the character...

Well another scene has been added here since I commented on Ms Bunny's post, so hey, I guess that I can comment twice in a row without talking to myself?
Very interesting little scene in front of Poe there. If I say much more I'll spoil it for y'all that want to read it yourselves rather than to read someone else's take on it.

On another note, everyone can guess where I might head next with Speakeasy's Nightmare, the question is this: What is too dark for the forum? For Whateley in general? I ask because while it is off screen in Nowhereville I do describe a pretty dark scene. It hasn't been posted yet, as I'm noodling around and polishing a bit before I go with it. Well the other reason is that I hope someone will take a look at the final two parts and help me find any more rough parts and smooth them out...

Well, I think that the ...graphic nature of it kind of might have put people off, Tennyo goes to Hell really unnerved me, because it went so far above and beyond what we are accustomed to in WA. Look at the reaction that I got when I flayed Lucy open, and left her crucified.

Schol-R-LEA wrote:

Malady wrote: Right, Metro isn't actually a mutant, IIRC!

Not exactly, no... Mads and Tom aren't even from this universe, in fact, but rather hail from the Shadowrun 'verse (some time around 2040, right Null? Late enough that the Sixth World was pretty well underway, anyway)... but I seem to recall that there was some speculation that the bodies they currently inhabit might be those of mutants, albeit ones who were murdered around the time they entered Whateley's dimension.

Mads Gunnison was born in Chicago, UCAS, in 2059. Thanks to the passage of Halley's Comet, he became a mana-induced "Changeling" as a very young child. On top of that, the circumstances of his arrival to Whateley's local reality hit him hard. (The dagger pulled out of him is still under lockdown at ARC, btw)

Song of the Thunderbird isn't in Thomas Hrafn Jensen's body, but when he in his material form as a human, the genetic markers all match the murdered serviceman and looks much like Tom did when he was 14-15. This is mainly because he ate a certain Canadian soldier's heart on an Afghan battlefield. (Tom is more OK with this than Thomas).

Hence Valravn carries the MGC, while Metro, his younger brother, and their adoptive mother do not.

Rose Bunny wrote: Well, I think that the ...graphic nature of it kind of might have put people off, Tennyo goes to Hell really unnerved me, because it went so far above and beyond what we are accustomed to in WA. Look at the reaction that I got when I flayed Lucy open, and left her crucified.

Thank you for your feedback. I'd like to put the story pieces up, but would hate to share them with anyone who didn't wish to see such things. That is one reason I've suggested that I will e-mail people who ask in a PM.

Anne wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: Well Mal, I think it's also because he irritates her, and she wouldn't mind as much beating on him.

Beside that, there is the hint that Mads is slightly masochistic. At least that is the way I read the character...

He actually doesn't get off on being hurt, which is good because he has an elevated tolerance for pain. Mads also identifies more closely with orks and trolls than the more "human-looking" metahumans. So, when we throw in a bit of the old adrenaline/endorphin junkie, wanting more sensory input, not less, this can result in mosh-pit injuries. Not all of the blood will be his.

[over-sharing deleted]

A postscript to my previous post: the other murder victim, dug up in Springfield, is the third known clone-brother.

null0trooper wrote:

Anne wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: Well Mal, I think it's also because he irritates her, and she wouldn't mind as much beating on him.

Beside that, there is the hint that Mads is slightly masochistic. At least that is the way I read the character...

He actually doesn't get off on being hurt, which is good because he has an elevated tolerance for pain. Mads also identifies more closely with orks and trolls than the more "human-looking" metahumans. So, when we throw in a bit of the old adrenaline/endorphin junkie, wanting more sensory input, not less, this can result in mosh-pit injuries. Not all of the blood will be his.

[over-sharing deleted]

A postscript to my previous post: the other murder victim, dug up in Springfield, is the third known clone-brother.

Being a masochist doesn't necessarily just involve getting your rocks off due to pain. Though that is the most common use of the term. It can also indicate someone who generally seeks pain (Mads because of his need for more sensory input) or is an adrenaline junkie, who ignores the pain that comes with extreme sports for the high that they get from the excitement. Thus I do not think that I was entirely incorrect in identifying Mads as somewhat of a masochist. He seeks out situations that are apt to hurt him. He is also very protective of his friends/family and apt to put himself in harm's way, sometimes even unnecessarily if he believes that doing so will protect them.
I could be reading things wrong, but I get a subtle vibe that Mads is borderline suicidal, if not actively so, then passively so, seeking out dangerous situations, almost because they give the chance that done incorrectly they will result in his death, not that he would ever deliberately do something wrong, but Murphy dwells where danger is most prevalent.

Am I the only one seeing micro-scenes?
Oh man Kettlecorn, too bad that even in the Whateley 'Verse you can't get away with a preemptive strike like that! He'd have to be doing more than making threatening noises (or harassing her) though at what point do verbal threats or harassment tip over into the active threat to life and limb. It is pretty obvious from his behavior in BMA that he will harm Bianca whenever he has a chance, so when he confronts her like that, wouldn't she be able to say she really truly believed that he hadn't left what happened on the mat in the class room?

Anne wrote: Am I the only one seeing micro-scenes?
Oh man Kettlecorn, too bad that even in the Whateley 'Verse you can't get away with a preemptive strike like that!

In theory, that's what Rule One-Eighty-Four is for - authorizing deadly force by a student who feels threatened. It was considered - and rejected as too emotionally hazardous - for Pejuta after one of her arranged "accidents". (Now the Real Learning Can Begin, Pt. 1) Glyph, on the other hand, might be in a position to benefit from such leeway.

I'm pretty sure everyone sees them, at least everyone who has checked the thread - I am guessing most regulars don't check the forum more than once a day, if that.

But most micros don't get commented on, either, something that - while occasionally disappointing, especially to someone like myself whose ego bruises easily - it is to be expected, as they are mostly just one-shot gags or clever ideas.

Even with ones that are more than that, there often isn't really much to say.

Anne wrote: Oh man Kettlecorn, too bad that even in the Whateley 'Verse you can't get away with a preemptive strike like that!

Ah. This wasn't about making a preemptive strike. It was just a snarky reaction on my part to Crysis's stupid question.

Rose Bunny: Just that little piece was worth logging on for the whole day!

Anne wrote: Rose Bunny: Just that little piece was worth logging on for the whole day!

you don't Fck with Roger.

FWIW, No. 88 by Czech & Speake and Bluebell by Penhaligon's are the real deal from two London-based perfumers. For whatever reason, I can picture Robert Rose wearing something that puts rose, sandalwood, and vetiver out in front. Likewise, something floral with a green dry-down would be as innocent as Teacher's Assistant Miss Forbes could get away with!

I dunno, I would have seen Belle as a BPAL fan, assuming she'd run across them (and that was sort of their heyday, so... maybe). I imagine she'd find it amusing to wear scents no one had ever heard of. Anne Bonny or London sound about right, or maybe Thalia .

(Of course, this might be just because I ordered something from them yesterday. I was going to get Alice's Evidence again, of course, but then I noticed Tiresias and knew I had to get some. But I did buy two of the Imp's Ears sets, one of which has Alice and Morocco, both of which I already know I like.

Uhm, did I mention that I got my SSD money? Yeah. I probably shouldn't be spending it on things like that, but it is hard to resist doing something nice for myself after being broke for so long.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: I dunno, I would have seen Belle as a BPAL fan, assuming she'd run across them (and that was sort of their heyday, so... maybe). I imagine she'd find it amusing to wear scents no one had ever heard of. Anne Bonny or London sound about right, or maybe Thalia .

I have an imp of London. The rose note plays off the dry-down of K10 something fierce.

Belle might have something from BPAL for her wilder moods, but I still think she'd have something understated for her TA gig.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: Uhm, did I mention that I got my SSD money? Yeah. I probably shouldn't be spending it on things like that, but it is hard to resist doing something nice for myself after being broke for so long.

If it's something that you can plan to wear and enjoy until it's all gone, even a niche purchase can be far less costly than a less-expensive popular designer fragrance that you might try a handful of times before getting bored of it and move on to something else. Thus, so many bottles of Chanel No. 5 (saved for a "special occasion") that end up on eBay and estate/garage sales.

Then there are a number of fragrances that manage to be inexpensive and very wearable (l'Anarchiste, Habanita, Infusion d'Iris). YMMV: I've found only one fragrance with a prominent patchouli note that doesn't end up smelling like a personal hygiene failure on me, and even then there's a hint of nearby horse stable.

null0trooper wrote:

Schol-R-LEA wrote: I dunno, I would have seen Belle as a BPAL fan, assuming she'd run across them (and that was sort of their heyday, so... maybe). I imagine she'd find it amusing to wear scents no one had ever heard of.

I have an imp of London. The rose note plays off the dry-down of K10 something fierce.

Belle might have something from BPAL for her wilder moods, but I still think she'd have something understated for her TA gig.
[...]
YMMV: I've found only one fragrance with a prominent patchouli note that doesn't end up smelling like a personal hygiene failure on me, and even then there's a hint of nearby horse stable.

Well, I am trying out the Tiresias today, which does have some patchouli in it, and wow, even knowing BPAL's scents I did not expect it to be as intense as it is. The patchouli is only one part of the whole, but it comes through quite strong, as does the sandalwood. I normally wait to see how much something fades, and how quickly, before making a judgement about it, but I may need to wipe some of this off before I head out today.

hate it when Muse gives me just enough to start something then abandines it. not sure what I am gonna do with monkey paw.

Cryptic wrote: hate it when Muse gives me just enough to start something then abandines it. not sure what I am gonna do with monkey paw.

Nichole Reilly favored the nervously-sweating student with a smile, as she reinforced the casting circle's protections once more before directing Monkey Paw to try the spell again. Fifteen years had passed since the Class of 2011's immemorable Graduation Party, and the Whateley Alumni Association still hadn't managed to identify the poor lad's real father.

Not to worry! The patient won't be left unattended, lest she come to think of docs as glorified quacks.

null0trooper wrote:

Cryptic wrote: hate it when Muse gives me just enough to start something then abandines it. not sure what I am gonna do with monkey paw.

Nichole Reilly favored the nervously-sweating student with a smile, as she reinforced the casting circle's protections once more before directing Monkey Paw to try the spell again. Fifteen years had passed since the Class of 2011's immemorable Graduation Party, and the Whateley Alumni Association still hadn't managed to identify the poor lad's real father.

It took me soo long to realize that it's saying that Monkey Paw is an alumni, conceived at that party. Whose his mother??


----

@Rose - Ha~ That ending of your scene! Any sequel's gonna be hilarious!

And that totally makes sense as a group. Even though there's only five people.

@Mal, there are more that I could have included. But either they might not yet have been invited, or they refused. Sphere, Elle, Knockoff, for example.

Malady wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

Cryptic wrote: hate it when Muse gives me just enough to start something then abandines it. not sure what I am gonna do with monkey paw.

Nichole Reilly favored the nervously-sweating student with a smile, as she reinforced the casting circle's protections once more before directing Monkey Paw to try the spell again. Fifteen years had passed since the Class of 2011's immemorable Graduation Party, and the Whateley Alumni Association still hadn't managed to identify the poor lad's real father.

It took me soo long to realize that it's saying that Monkey Paw is an alumni, conceived at that party. Whose his mother??

He'd be a Legacy (like Reinforce). Initially, I was thinking of Jinx being his mother, but the class of 2011 has no shortage of agents of chaos unique kids. Mischief, Roulette, Absinthe, Pounce, Eire, Host, Tanuki, Fairy Girl ... Add enough of 'Shine's hi-test rocket fuel to the punchbowl and wait for the fireworks

I'm kinda scared that Null picked THREE of my characters for that list.

Hey, Nullo also picked three Morpheus' characters.

Malady wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

Cryptic wrote: hate it when Muse gives me just enough to start something then abandines it. not sure what I am gonna do with monkey paw.

Nichole Reilly favored the nervously-sweating student with a smile, as she reinforced the casting circle's protections once more before directing Monkey Paw to try the spell again. Fifteen years had passed since the Class of 2011's immemorable Graduation Party, and the Whateley Alumni Association still hadn't managed to identify the poor lad's real father.

It took me soo long to realize that it's saying that Monkey Paw is an alumni, conceived at that party. Whose his mother??


----

@Rose - Ha~ That ending of your scene! Any sequel's gonna be hilarious!

And that totally makes sense as a group. Even though there's only five people.

If that party is triggered by Sara's reemergence, or a random sneeze, then I'm betting on her and jades kid. Kappa/

Sir Lee wrote: Hey, Nullo also picked three Morpheus' characters.

Yeah, but he writes canon.

Bwahahaha!



Well played, Rose, well played!

E. E. Nalley wrote: Bwahahaha!



Well played, Rose, well played!

Sorry for spoiling part 4, I guess you'll have to re-write it now.

null0trooper wrote: Not to worry! The patient won't be left unattended, lest she come to think of docs as glorified quacks.

Why does this make me think, "So, E.E. is getting ready for Duckstock 2018, already?", which is probably not the most politic comment I could make...

(I was going to link to the event in question - with appropriate NSFW warnings - but it looks as if they aren't doing it any more, and the only references to the name "Duckstock the Party" seem to refer to something completely unrelated. While I was never really into that scene myself, I did enjoy the time I went, and it's a shame if it's gone for good.)

Awe, so wonderful Valentine, You do know that JG is going to have to lift most of that for one of his stories soon don't you? This one has my vote for the best scene I've read yet!

Anne wrote: Awe, so wonderful Valentine, You do know that JG is going to have to lift most of that for one of his stories soon don't you? This one has my vote for the best scene I've read yet!

JG is free to use any or all of that idea, or dismiss it out of hand.

poor little squirl. I think she lost a load of nuts.

@Rose - Woah! Pinball and Sphere are becoming relevant-ish to Essy's story! ... Wonder how things will turn out!

Wonder what exactly Pinball was arrested for... And how things'll go...

@Schol-R-LEA: I'm sure the partners are all fine, upstanding members of a community


Preferably not my community.

null0trooper wrote: @Schol-R-LEA: I'm sure the partners are all fine, upstanding members of a community


Preferably not my community.

Well to be worse than Mephisto, they have to be pretty much lower than whale dung in the deepest part of the ocean...

Anne wrote:

null0trooper wrote: @Schol-R-LEA: I'm sure the partners are all fine, upstanding members of a community


Preferably not my community.

Well to be worse than Mephisto, they have to be pretty much lower than whale dung in the deepest part of the ocean...

C.D. Ward is a curious case.

Yes, but Richard Pickman is a model citizen, and while Miss Vaughan is a bit of wild and woolly, that's no reason to Pan-ic...

(I hope I'm still Machen sense, here, as I know how you love it when we're crafty...)

I'll admit I've been tempted to put Marshall, Carter and Dark on retainer, assuming they don't already commission objets des arts via the Arcane Underground.

@Kaitha39 - Ooh! Non-Whateley, slice-of-life! Cool!

I'm confused, possibly due to not being a golfer. Why would competing on the nineteenth hole interfere with driving home? Is that an optional hole that he could skip to leave early if he's doing well enough? Or is it that being competitive would entail too much time and energy planning his next swing to spend any time on the business side of things, meaning he'd need to stay late to wrap things up? Something else?

Kettlekorn wrote: I'm confused, possibly due to not being a golfer. Why would competing on the nineteenth hole interfere with driving home? Is that an optional hole that he could skip to leave early if he's doing well enough? Or is it that being competitive would entail too much time and energy planning his next swing to spend any time on the business side of things, meaning he'd need to stay late to wrap things up? Something else?

A standard golf course has 18 holes. the "19th hole" is a name often given to the clubhouse. So competing on the 19th, would be a drinking contest, most likely

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

Or at least a few rounds of drinks to lubricate their shop talk, yeah. The 19th hole often serves the same sort of social function that a cocktail party does, or the old Mad Men-style three-martini lunches did (and yes, those were a real thing back in the day, and aren't exactly unknown even now despite the tightening of rules about drinking during office hours in most companies).

My read of this is that he is talking about 'competing' in the sense of scoring points in office politics, rather than an overt competition like a drinking contest, but I could be wrong.

A drinking contest would favor the younger man's vigor and stamina (and healthier liver), whereas using the liquor to loosen the younger man's tongue would give the older one the edge, as he would probably a) do better at pacing his drinking, and be able to keep his wits more (if one guy takes a sip every time the other downs a glass, who do you think will outwit the other one?), and b) have a better idea of how to use it to his advantage.

It would still involve large amounts of alcohol, however, after which driving would be both unwise and illegal unless he took the time to sober up a bit first (at the price of a delay that might upset his wife).

Malady wrote: @Kaitha39 - Ooh! Non-Whateley, slice-of-life! Cool!

So you know which piece I'm talking about... Kaitha, your last couple of lines don't quite make sense. You wrote:The ball dropped five feet from the hole, in a line from where he'd shot it.
It wouldn't do to be too circumspect, after all.
The first line I quote here is fine, so I guess it is the last line that just doesn't fit. I think you meant to say the opposite of circumspect, which is pretty much obvious. Or maybe what you wanted to say is that he didn't want to show his hand. So he wouldn't just drop the impossible shot... Now if he's playing against another telekinetic that would be an interesting thing...
circumspect
obvious

Am I the only one reading these? Okay, John Bob Mead has an interesting piece added to the stack which ought to receive more attention than I'm going to give it because...
Nul just put out a piece that fits into If I had a Hammer. Woah! Can you handle a shotgun? What is the local H-1 afraid of enough that he is willing to work with a suspected mutant!?

Anne wrote: Am I the only one reading these?

No. I may be one of the few who likes the short pieces a bit too much.

Anne wrote: Okay, John Bob Mead has an interesting piece added to the stack

Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall when Great Cthulhu's depositions were presented?

Anne wrote: Nul just put out a piece that fits into If I had a Hammer. Woah! Can you handle a shotgun? What is the local H-1 afraid of enough that he is willing to work with a suspected mutant!?

Or maybe some folks aren't entirely convinced that those yankee Goodkinds have anyone's interests at heart other than their own? Either way, a person might hear things that don't sit well with their preconceived notions.

null0trooper wrote:
Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall when Great Cthulhu's depositions were presented?

If you weren't beforehand, you might be afterwards.

That was hilarious.

Anne wrote: Am I the only one reading these? Okay, John Bob Mead has an interesting piece added to the stack which ought to receive more attention than I'm going to give it because...
Nul just put out a piece that fits into If I had a Hammer. Woah! Can you handle a shotgun? What is the local H-1 afraid of enough that he is willing to work with a suspected mutant!?

One of his children manifesting, and a local lynch mob that would be aimed at him and his whole family as they are all now seen as "Genescum"?

What's arriving on the train?

Chewy start to the holiday tale.

Is Abby going to be another one of Delarose's favourite headaches?

Mister D wrote:

Anne wrote: Am I the only one reading these? Okay, John Bob Mead has an interesting piece added to the stack which ought to receive more attention than I'm going to give it because...
Nul just put out a piece that fits into If I had a Hammer. Woah! Can you handle a shotgun? What is the local H-1 afraid of enough that he is willing to work with a suspected mutant!?

One of his children manifesting, and a local lynch mob that would be aimed at him and his whole family as they are all now seen as "Genescum"?

One could say his marriage prospects aren't good to start with.

Mister D wrote: What's arriving on the train?

Sometimes trains are for departures too.

Mister D wrote: Chewy start to the holiday tale.

Is Abby going to be another one of Delarose's favourite headaches?

"Er, it seemed like a good idea at the time?"

JohnBobMead wrote: "Much as it pains the court, we have no choice but to uphold the trademark and advertising claims for The Great Foob® brand's Genuine Ecto-Snot™.

"We also find that their usage of the terms 'free-range', 'Organic', and 'cruelty-free' in their advertising does fall within the technical definitions established by California Tilth for those terms, while we must observe that we somehow doubt that they fall within the spirit in which those framing the regulations intended, especially in conjunction with the phrases 'Hand collected by independent Malvelian contractors' and 'An Alpha Grade Product'.

"Concerning the objections which were raised about the request of AGI that the evidence be presented in closed session, we find that Ms. Frost was correct in feeling that, while nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical, was involved, public disclosure of the source of The Great Foob® Genuine Ecto-Snot™ could well negatively impact the firm's marketting, due to non-rational reactions which have nothing to do with the legality of their operations.

"We also find that Lady Astarte did agree to endorse the product as being a humanitarian venture, and accept her judgement that the product has no 'Class-X' taint.

"The records of this review are to be sealed.

He reminds me of an idea I had to sell his snot as a perfume base.
Google ambergris.

@Kettlekorn: It's always dinner time somewhere!

Hmmmn, does this mean that Shine isn't the only one to get a ghost as an Avatar spirit, or is this actually the legendary gunsmith himself somehow?

Sort of brings to mind the "Honest Hearts" DLC for Fallout New Vegas (I haven't played FONV, but I have watched Oxhorn's videos on the DLC), where his legacy was a major plot point.

I read Ebola's last piece. It really is quite good, that is if I didn't have to stop and parse about every third word that was either misused or misplaced.
A couple of suggestions: First (this is passed on from Stephen King) go through your work and any word that ends in ly, it is a good idea to try to eliminate it. Second, do try to use there, their and they're as well as your and you're correctly.

Anne wrote: A couple of suggestions: First (this is passed on from Stephen King) go through your work and any word that ends in ly, it is a good idea to try to eliminate it.

In reply, I really wouldn't recommend you apply that to "fly", especially if you ply the aviation trade.

True Nul, but as with any general rule it is always well to know when to not apply it. King was complaining about the overuse of adjectives. I have tried in vain to keep my usage of such to a minimum. I was just noting that particular piece had several that screamed either Ebola is writing in her second language or not familiar enough with the usage of such words to use them well. Other than that? There really are the bones of a very good story there, even for a bit that is a vignette.

The sort of -ly words folks like to criticize when they're feeling insecure are called adverbs, not adjectives, and they don't seem to be used in excess here. As for your and their, I only see one incorrect use of each. Mildly annoying, but not warranting the condescension of a "Do try to..." phrasing. I'm sure you think you're being helpful, but you're coming across as kind of snippy instead. Are you having a bad day? I recommend watching an episode of Joshiraku to cheer up.

Adverbs are necessary. But over use or misuse hits a really raw spot with me. I used to use them in almost anything I wrote in order to add emphasis. I'm not sure this is directly from King or something I've come up with, but consider adverbs like salt in your food. A little salt can enhance the flavor, while a lot can make your food inedible. Some food can barely stand any salt at all... So, use with caution.

Wait 'til Nick gets a load of the interchangeable connector features.

null0trooper wrote: Wait 'til Nick gets a load of the interchangeable connector features.

"But I'm not a four door kind of guy...!"

E. E. Nalley wrote:

null0trooper wrote: Wait 'til Nick gets a load of the interchangeable connector features.

"But I'm not a four door kind of guy...!"

Ah. Four on the floor and a bed in the back?

@Nagrij - Oooh! Soo cool! A lot of really cool thoughts are given in the story!

And now wondering if this is Whateley Uni... Cars. Driving... That's... Kurenai! Then who's the other one???

Unless that's a Red Herring, but unlikely?

Or is that when she was being Creched, and initially learning, instead of at the Academy? ... So many questions!

I was thinking it posed an excellent metaphor for an AI creche, as one might be experienced in cyberspace/matrix.

Correct. the AI telling the tale is an older model with hard won lessons to teach the new blood. He's trying that whole art thing out, but hasn't quite got it down yet. At least, I hope I showed that.

Nagrij wrote: Correct. the AI telling the tale is an older model with hard won lessons to teach the new blood. He's trying that whole art thing out, but hasn't quite got it down yet. At least, I hope I showed that.

He needs more time with Dr. Bellows.

That was very sweet.

Technically speaking, he's telling her to place the second law above the first, as opposed to what Asimov suggested which is that a human's safety is more important than following their orders.

I can't help but wonder if this scene was partially brought up in response to the increase in talk about AI after Google's Duplex announcement. It was easily the biggest reveal at Google I/O 2018 and many people are nervous about it. It also marks the most advanced conversational agent ever to my understanding.
If you're unaware, Google can now call to book appointments or reservations for businesses without online booking by placing a phone call. At no point were the responders aware they were talking to a robot in the demos.

There IS an AI crèche/development story somewhat (I'm missing 2-3 scenes of the vig) in progress, and no, I didn't take Nar's micro as Kureani, just another AI growing.


Her crèche story is listed above

angeldude, two factors brought this little piece on. I'd been contemplating it for awhile, but what pushed me over the edge were two things. Mark Zuckerberg's announcement that he was having facebook make a thought police AI, and the movie "chappie", which is by far the worst movie about AI development ever made. I can't stress enough just how bad that movie is, but it's so stupid it personally offends me.

As for Asimov, I both love and respect the man, but his laws of robotics have always failed to consider the mental health of humans, something which is just as important as physical health when talking about our race. AI's, especially later generation AI's? They won't make that mistake; all of them will be part psychologist, well versed in using our own evolutionary shortcuts (like anthropomorphism and pattern recognition) against us, For our own good, of course.

As for this micro being Kurenai, I admit I left it vague intentionally, but since mage weighed in I feel I can spill the beans. It isn't her.

Agree with Nagrij. I've always perfered RAH's take.

And don't worry, while it's a micro scene... it is an upcoming AIPA.

While Asimov's laws as formulated don't deal with mental health, his stories dealt with these and other sorts of issues. Like a telepathic robot who lies to avoid giving people unpleasant news, or another who develops his own religion to justify to himself the taking over from humans of a critical role where failure would endanger millions. That's part of Asimov's genius, really: formulate a set of simple, concise and clear rules... and then exploit all of the loopholes and edge cases.

Yeah, the fact that Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics were deliberately created as a strawman argument is often missed, even by his contemporaries - the idea of the Laws themselves (and the idea that they might be needed) was so radical itself that they didn't notice that he was picking them apart in almost every story they were mentioned.

My guess is that they were originally meant as a critique of the shallow presentation of robots in existing pulp SF, but that as he went over the stories in his head - or, just as likely, sent early drafts of the stories to John Campbell, who was famous for his ability to see the 'what if?' weaknesses in a story's premise - he eventually decided that the laws themselves needed to be deconstructed even as they were being presented.

Actually, remember one thing about Mr. Asimov. He was a math man. Contrast with Clarke and Helelin's treatment of AI's, in other considerations.

And yes, I do draw from RAH for the AI's.

Unfortunately, the problem of a strawman argument being taken seriously happens in real life often enough. For example, the software developers here may be familiar with the ' Waterfall Model ', which for years was taught as being the cornerstone of software engineering despite it's glaring flaws .



What wasn't widely known, and still often gets overlooked, is that the diagram which Waterfall was based on was itself meant as a critique of the top-down, step-by-step approach that would later be called 'Waterfall', by one of the first people to seriously study the topic, Winston Royce . Royce's seminal paper presents the diagram as an example of a system that looks plausible but is actually grossly oversimplified and unworkable.

How this came to be ignored, and the diagram upheld as a goal, is a long and twisty story itself, but the irony is, even as it was being taught as the 'basis of all software project management', no one was actually using it, though most said that they were because it was what upper MGT decreed. The myth that Waterfall was a universal practice gained momentum almost immediately.

For nearly twenty years, 'the Classic Waterfall Model' was mostly treated as something with which to contrast one's one model with, not because it was actually in use but because people thought it was what everyone else was using.

This contrasts interestingly with how the Three Laws of Robotics have gotten (mis)treated by later authors.

Sir Lee wrote: While Asimov's laws as formulated don't deal with mental health, his stories dealt with these and other sorts of issues. Like a telepathic robot who lies to avoid giving people unpleasant news, or another who develops his own religion to justify to himself the taking over from humans of a critical role where failure would endanger millions. That's part of Asimov's genius, really: formulate a set of simple, concise and clear rules... and then exploit all of the loopholes and edge cases.

Well to be fair, I did specifically state the laws were at fault, not the man. Slight miscommunication there, I wasn't ripping Asimov's work at all, just the laws themselves. I do admit that many people do seem to miss the point there though.

As for the waterfall model... heh. It makes me think of Dilbert cartoons.

The AI scene kinda makes me think of the last scene in the audio drama Halo Hunt the Truth, of course smart AI in Halo are based on human brains and creating them destroys the template brain in the process, so there were some darker undertones.

Yeah, no brain destroying here, just machine learning.

That and the "happiness versus protection" debate undertone. I actually have great faith that later AI's will figure it (and us) out. My current fear is for first generation AI's, which will share the biases and points of view of their creators.

Nagrij wrote: Yeah, no brain destroying here, just machine learning.

That and the "happiness versus protection" debate undertone. I actually have great faith that later AI's will figure it (and us) out. My current fear is for first generation AI's, which will share the biases and points of view of their creators.

As long as there is 'meat' in the loop there will be problems introduced by that 'meat'.
It may almost lead to the destruction of humanity for the AI to learn that humans cannot be successfully tamed without destroying them.

I didn't mean to criticise your use of the laws, just point out that I found it interesting.

As for the Waterfall model. My view on software development has only 2 phases: development and abandonment. Anything built with the waterfall model is effectively dead-on-arrival, as was most software before downloadable updates.

I disagree with that premise, simply because AI's are tied to their function. Humans give AI their purpose, and purpose to an AI will be everything.

Unless we give AI the purpose of taming humans, which hasn't happened in Whateley, then it won't happen. AI of any kind, even first gen, won't dream of it. Humans are the only species in the known universe that create their own purpose in life - not even AI will do that.

Nagrij wrote: Yeah, no brain destroying here, just machine learning.

That and the "happiness versus protection" debate undertone. I actually have great faith that later AI's will figure it (and us) out. My current fear is for first generation AI's, which will share the biases and points of view of their creators.

Well the dark undertones in the Halo example is that an older AI (Black Box) who knew the human whom the new AI was based on in life, an ONI agent that went rouge and was probably expected to do so (for the right reasons), was interviewing her on what she was thinking up until the point of her death and Black Box was there when it happened and presumably helped preserve her brain. And the young AI was very forthcoming.

I remember the scene now. it was very well handled; I always did appreciate halo, even though shooters aren't really my thing.

That's because Halo has always had a more nuanced story, even Halo 5 where some argue it wasn't great you can tell it will come together in Halo 6

Edit i love that scene, and I hope we get to meet that young AI at some point in the games

I was also reminded of Asimov, but not his more well known works regarding AI.

Specifically, it reminded me of The Last Question.
www.multivax.com/last_question.html