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7 years 3 months ago #401 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Jade's a bit of a borderline case. Biologically, she's completely male. On the other hand, Jinn (who is also Jade) is naturally female (although non-biological in a way that makes assigning any sex questionable). And Jade isn't developing at all. So it's not entirely unreasonable to speculate that if Jade's development wasn't blocked by other factors, she would be developing as female.


    Huh. Does becoming completely biologically your desired gender (like Chaka did) mean that you are no longer trans? I'd kind of say that it depends on the person, but I think it's an interesting question.

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    7 years 3 months ago #402 by Kristin Darken
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  • Yes, Arcanist... or at least, it does IF the change brings you in line with your mental self-image. That's one of the big problems with transitioning, for me personally... that even if I undergo therapy and surgery to transition, the end result won't match the image driving my internal conflicts. So, transitioning might bring me closer to physically appearing to be who I am... I don't believe it will ultimately satisfy me. Where, others, it does. A case like Chaka's? Yes, I'd say that even if Chaka still connects with other people as having been someone who experienced the disconnection, depression, and so forth of being transgender.... post-manifestation, she is unlikely to be transgender any longer. On the other hand? Hannah wasn't transgender until she manifested and became Hank. Now? At least to some degree... though, it is possible that he will adapt and no longer 'miss' being female so much that it counts.

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    7 years 3 months ago #403 by Valentine
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  • I think Elrod and/or EE put it best through Mrs. Horton:

    Riddle of Sappho wrote: "Stephen, Marty won't ever not be a changeling," she cautioned him softly. "She'll have a vagina someday, and menstrual cramps and, God willing, beautiful healthy children." With a twinkle in her eye, Mrs. Horton said, "You might even have something to do with that."

    Stronghold blushed fiercely, and with a tenderness most wouldn't ascribe to a PK Superman, he again brushed the lock of hair from her sleeping face. "I hope I'm that lucky," he whispered.

    "But, despite that, son, Martine's past, thisMarty - Martin - lying here, this won't ever go away for her. And in the back of her mind, whenever she's happiest, whenever she thinks she's finally put it behind her, something will remind her that this, Martin, is who she used to be. Something will renew her fear that her secret will be exposed, putting her in new danger. And, sadly, there will always be those who will be only too happy to remind her. It will take a very strong man to be there for her when she goes through this."


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    7 years 3 months ago #404 by Sir Lee
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  • Well, here is my proposal to rename the category and have a new descriptive text on the category page:

    Gender-complicated

    This category covers people who can't be easily fit into the old-fashioned "male" and "female" binary categories. It is, by design, a very inclusive category. It covers (but is not limited to):

    • transgender people in the usual sense, that is, people who have a gender identity different from their biological gender
    • intersexed people, who have biological characteristics of both genders
    • people who had their biological gender changed against their choice. The number of factors which can lead to such a transition are as numerous as the individuals they affect, including but by no means limited to an Exemplar trait, a bonded spirit in the case of Avatars, and even nanotechnology
    • people who alternate between genders
    • people who no longer have a gender as such

    In Poe Cottage internal slang, members of this category are known as "changelings," and are said to be "changing sides in the war between the sexes."

    The name of the category refers to an item on the Whateley Academy admission form, where the applicant is asked to mark his sex, with the options being "Male/Female/Complicated."

    If there are no objections to the new category name, and no amendments to the descriptive text, I'll go live with it early next week.

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    7 years 3 months ago #405 by Valentine
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  • Since we can add more definition if it should arise, it looks good to me.

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    7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #406 by Malady
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  • Other than "Gender-complicated" seeming like a mouthful, no complaints, I think... ... Hmm...

    "Complex Gender" or "Gender Complex"... While shorter, sounds strange, although it does align with the Author Sheets, which use Complex...
    Last Edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    7 years 3 months ago #407 by Star
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  • Is there a standard format layout for a character page as far as sections go.

    At the top is the intro blurb, pic and the nav box. At the bottom is usually the references with the relationships above that. In between that I'm not sure because looking at several character pages there's no set order to the categories of information. Some are missing and some are what I would consider out of order. There's 41 pages of comments on this particular thread alone and searching the forum in general is not returning me any specifics as to a standard layout. I admit it could be so far down in the search results that I've not found it yet.

    Is there a standard layout for characters pages?

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    7 years 3 months ago #408 by Malady
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  • 7 years 3 months ago #409 by Sir Lee
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  • Nothing really rigid, no. We tried it at the beginning (back when it was a different wiki, with different software at a different host), but we quickly realized that we have hundreds of characters where we simply have nothing to put in half of those standard sections. So it's a bit of an ad-hoc structure, we copy from other entries what we think will work for that particular entry.
    We do have templates for MIDs, though. And we considered making a few sidebar templates to summarize the more repetitive information (like, for students, graduating class, cottage, powers, clubs, training team...) but nobody really stepped up to design those.

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    7 years 3 months ago #410 by Star
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  • Maybe we should have a standard layout but if we're missing information, then we just don't have the category show up but we keep it in order.

    It would go something like:

    Intro blurb & Pic(There may not be a pic)
    Nav Box
    MID(alternatively the MID could go in Powers but I think it should be first)
    Personality & Physical Description
    History
    Skills
    Powers
    Associations
    References


    If there's not enough data for one of the categories, it just isn't there, but the order remains the same.

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    7 years 3 months ago #411 by Star
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  • I didn't see the link Malady put until after I made my above post. That helps quite a bit. Thank you.

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    7 years 3 months ago #412 by Sir Lee
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  • Well, it's done. No more "Transgendered characters," only "Gender-complicated" in the Wiki.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 3 months ago #413 by Phoenix Spiritus
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  • Look on the bright side, no more "campaigners" like the last one will find our site now :)
    7 years 3 months ago #414 by Star
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  • I've made it my goal to edit at least two pages with new information or reorganizing information already there. Also to go story by story, pulling details out that need to be on pages. At least one story a month.

    To do this, if the page for it has a notes category, I will place the new information there, unless it is obvious where it goes, for later edit by me or someone else. I consider making the information available is more important than making it look pretty.

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    7 years 3 months ago #415 by Star
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  • Edit 2 posts a weekend. I have a 3 day every weekend so I'm sure I can do this.

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    7 years 3 months ago #416 by Sir Lee
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  • I want to give a big public thanks to Malady and Star. They have been really putting in a lot of work lately. And Valentine, of course, who has been a prolific contributor for a while now. And everybody who has fixed even a one-letter typo. It really helps.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #417 by Malady
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  • Been linking the Kayda series so its possible to go from story to the one before or after... Infoboxes would be nice, found this Episode one that could be renamed or copied with just a few edits in the parameter names to work for stories:

    crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Infobox_episode

    I could edit that template (Any regular user can edit it...) and then ask for a rename into Infobox Story so then it makes sense to use it for stories... Putting the info here in case Sir Lee wants to do it himself or something?

    Also ones for Characters exist...
    Last Edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #418 by Sir Lee
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  • I'm not particularly savvy regarding Infoboxes and similar stuff; if you want to do the heavy lifting and give me step-by-step instructions on what's needed from an Admin-level user to do, go ahead, I'll certainly not complain.

    I expect that a few things might have to be changed/adapted from those examples, though. For instance, the "Episodes" infobox assumes that you only have a single series (or maybe only a few ones); we would need a field for "series name" or "main character" or something of the sort. Similarly, for the "Characters" box the field list might need some tweaking -- that one seems geared towards RPG characters. There's stats there that are irrelevant to us, and there are a number of stats that are Whateley-specific but really relevant to us (besides the Powers, we would have -- for starters -- Class and Cottage, at least for students.)

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 1 month ago #419 by Malady
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  • Well, we could split the current Episode infobox, into two or three.

    1: Story name, writer(s), post date, (Use a conditional if it's only over a single day, and note that here.)

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



    2: Time period covered by the story.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



    3: Stories it follows, and stories it's followed by.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    Reuse that last box for each new series it needs to connect to. Like, for a Kayda + Loophole story, you have 1 box for the Kayda series and the other for the Loophole ones.

    ... Flashbacks do complicate dating the stories... Perhaps just cover the main events for the dates box.
    Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Malady.
    7 years 3 months ago #420 by Star
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  • I threw up a page on the wiki for listing pop culture references.

    I see it primarily for help with those writing or building within the universe to know what popular culture in our world also exists in the Whateley Universe. Some things are a given like Tenchi Muyo and C'thulu, but others not so obvious. As an example, Felix the Cat is referenced by using slang derived from one of the characters names.

    It also indirectly expands the detail of the universe by implying details without them having to explicitly included in other stories.

    As I go story by story, I'll keep on adding detail to the pop culture list while I pull other stuff out of the story for other pages.

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    7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #421 by Sir Lee
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  • I think that a listing of all real-world pop-culture references EVER mentioned in a Whateley story is not really practical. I mean, you can assume that MOST RW pop-culture exists in Whateley. It's like trying to list all the countries of the world, all of the major cities... you just take for granted that they exist, OK?

    Not saying that the page is useless, however. It would be a nice place to list
    (a) pop-culture references that exist in the WU but not in the RW (for instance, Sapphire Comics or Adventures of the MCO TV series),
    and
    (b) pop-culture elements that exist in both worlds but have notable differences between both versions. For instance, the Marvel movies in the WU are different, and Marvel ended up as part of AJK Inc, not Disney.

    Also, if we ever run into this case, RW pop-culture things that *do not* exist in the WU.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    7 years 3 months ago #422 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • There might be a place for extremely relevant references as well. *cough*Ryoko*cough*. Although maybe that counts as a reference with a difference? I mean, I'm pretty sure that the 'real world' Ryoko wasn't inspired by an alien world ender.

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    7 years 3 months ago #423 by Sir Lee
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  • Actually, it's a bit forgotten and perhaps not very well-named, but there's a page named Links that has some overlap with the Pop Culture References . Perhaps they could be merged...

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    7 years 2 months ago #424 by Cryptic
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  • Should there be a page describing the WU Drow like there is a page describing the WU Sidhe? And can anything new be added to the Sidhe page?

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    7 years 2 months ago #425 by Sir Lee
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  • On the Drow: yes, I think it would be appropriate, considering that we already have 4 drow on Gen1 and apparently quite a few more in Gen2.

    On the Sidhe: of course it's possible to add more stuff. That goes for any and every page.

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    7 years 2 months ago #426 by Cryptic
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  • Sir Lee wrote: On the Drow: yes, I think it would be appropriate, considering that we already have 4 drow on Gen1 and apparently quite a few more in Gen2.

    On the Sidhe: of course it's possible to add more stuff. That goes for any and every page.


    -nods- I will work up a Drow page some time this week.

    As for my question about the Sidhe... I think I was asking more what is there new to add? But I'll reread and see what I can add to that as well.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    7 years 2 months ago - 7 years 2 months ago #427 by Cryptic
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  • Much thanks to those who cleaned up my original Drow entry. I ran out of time before I could finish Wikifying it. :pinch:

    CTA does have it's own page, i'll fix that when I have a chance later today or Monday.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    Last Edit: 7 years 2 months ago by Cryptic.
    7 years 2 months ago #428 by Cryptic
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  • Should the Spirit page maybe list the gender they presented to Kayda when they had their chats as some only present as male, others only female?

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    7 years 1 month ago #429 by Wrayth
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  • I looked around a bit, but might be blind.... Where is the list of what the power ratings mean? I.e. Exemplar 4 can lift x amount, has equivelant regen 1.
    Only asking because a fanfic I read really needs help with terminology. And maybe going the avatar route instead of the MC having a bunch of abilities and powers.
    7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #430 by Esar
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  • When this is available you should be able to find it In each category of power's page.

    The "general" ranking system :

    0 A level that's used in a single very exceptional circumstance: a mutant who does not have a Wizard talent, but is still a trained mage. This is not used for any other circumstance, including a baseline Mage. There may be a similar use for a mutant who's also a trained psychic without any mutant psychic talent, but if so, it hasn't shown up in any stories.

    1 an exceptional individual in their level. After all, even a weak ability to channel magnetism, electricity or telepathy is a potent weapon when combined with a creative mind.

    2 a paragon, one of the great people whom you can look upon in awe of their achievements and wish you were as cool, even though they were clearly mortal, they were POTENT mortal. Heroes and Savants and rulers alike. (NOT the Paragon Esper trait.)

    3 considered a demigod, or the greatest of mortal heroes in most early cultures. These would be people for whom epic ballads would have been constructed.

    4 a clear, definable power in their own right. Anyone with a 4 would have been worshiped as a God in less modern times

    5 an EXTREMELY powerful character. We're talking capable of punching some of the greats in the face and walking out alive - if they're not stupid. As far as mortal men would have been concerned in earlier times. This would be, not considered, but BE a God walking among men.

    6 "We can measure the upper limits of this power with modern day techniques. We think." In the dark days of Christianity a Six ANYTHING could be likened to a Seraphim of Biblical Lore. Unstoppable, Indescribable, and a destroyer of nations, or a world-class conqueror, or a living Holy Icon.

    7 "fuck all, we have no goddamn clue what we're dealing with here." This is truly beyond the ken of mortals. A Seven would have been considered one of the primordial forces that the Gods had to harness and chain to forge the world. This may be mistaken, but that is the perception. A Seven is the absolute limit of the Scientific, Wild-Ass Guess classifications that comprise the Mutant Classification system. Fey is a Seven because the Fae magics she use DO NOT seem to operate in any way a normal human wizard operates, beyond following the laws of magic. Hence, she gets thrown into a 7 classification because she can tap God's own lightningrods, ley lines, without dying instantly. Yes friends, if Sir Wallace Westmont tapped an actual Ley Line, he'd be mage on Flambe without some EXTREME precautions.


    And a lot of powers have specific description, for example, http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Exemplar

    Level 1 Normal abilities, but body may be reshaped by the "exemplar effect". They're trim and strong, despite perhaps having a poor diet. This may shape people into alternate genders or give unexpected physical developments, without necessarily granting superhuman powers. Tend to heal quickly and are resistant to disease.

    Level 2 Upper reaches of human physical and mental ability. The very tip-top of normal humanity may match or barely exceed them. They heal quickly enough that it is almost like a low-level regeneration.

    Level 3 Just above human maximum in strength, agility, intelligence, etc. Better than any normal human, but not stunningly better. Their strength is much greater than human maximum, but they rarely exceed 500 or 600 pounds in a dead lift. At this level, we begin to see true regeneration, but it is a slow regeneration.

    Level 4 True superhumans. They break the 1000 pound lift barrier. While not bulletproof, exemplars of this level have sufficiently resilient bone and muscle structure that low calibre bullet hits are unlikely to cause significant trauma unless a vital area is struck. Even without regen they are almost immune to illness and infection.

    Level 5 Lower lift limit: 1ton. At this level memory is fully eidetic.

    Level 6 ‘True bulletproof’ with low calibre shots unable to even penetrate skin, although the kinetic impact may slow them down a little.

    Level 7 The highest level of exemplar ever seen.


    Exemplar , Warperwarping , Wizard , regenerator , Avatar have extensive descriptions for example. I was going to list all of them but I had forgotten about the limit of links available for each post.

    Basicly, except for PDP, energizer and devisor, you should have what you are looking for in the wiki.
    Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Esar.
    7 years 1 month ago #431 by Wrayth
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  • Thanks
    7 years 1 month ago #432 by Valentine
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  • If I remember correctly there are 4 characters that are or have the potential to be 7+ ratings. A fully trained Fey's Wiz Rating, Tennyo's Regen Rating, Jimmy T's Shifter Rating, and FUBAR's Psi rating. Kayda's Avatar Rating may be this high but no one is pushing to find out.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    7 years 1 month ago #433 by elrodw
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  • Valentine wrote: If I remember correctly there are 4 characters that are or have the potential to be 7+ ratings. A fully trained Fey's Wiz Rating, Tennyo's Regen Rating, Jimmy T's Shifter Rating, and FUBAR's Psi rating. Kayda's Avatar Rating may be this high but no one is pushing to find out.


    Kayda's avatar rating is NOT that high. She's at most a 5; her Ptesanwi spirit (Tatanka is her other MINOR spirit) allows her to channnel Wakan Tanka. She'd have to be a 7 to host Wakan Tanka directly, which she cannot do.

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    7 years 1 month ago #434 by Katssun
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  • But there are a fair amount of 6's in Gen1. For example, Ribbon and Hippolyta are both EX-6, Regen-6.
    7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #435 by Sir Lee
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  • Also, keep in mind that this is not a RPG manual. All ratings are tentative ways to describe differences between mutants with roughly similar powers. And some of the weirder power sets (for instance, go back to Jade's initial power evaluation) make it difficult to even assign a type of power, much less a power level. Some powers have different natures but overlap in their effects (ex: Exemplar and PK brick), making it difficult to assign a definitive power level for each individual power. There's a lot of judgment calls by the power testers -- sometimes, very bad judgment calls (like in Phase's first power testing).

    So, don't expect a 100% consistent picture.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.
    7 years 1 month ago #436 by Katssun
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  • Seraphim is another good example of that. Kerry's official ratings aren't all that high, but the way her powers were attuned and fostered made quite the difference.

    As is any devisor and gadgeteer. Their specialties and area of focus make a big difference. Jobe is nearly universally feared, compared to Lanie or Kayda.

    It's only the straightforward sets like Exemplar that follow some sort of power scale, and Regen can in some ways actually get worse the higher one goes.
    7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #437 by Valentine
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  • elrodw wrote:

    Valentine wrote: If I remember correctly there are 4 characters that are or have the potential to be 7+ ratings. A fully trained Fey's Wiz Rating, Tennyo's Regen Rating, Jimmy T's Shifter Rating, and FUBAR's Psi rating. Kayda's Avatar Rating may be this high but no one is pushing to find out.


    Kayda's avatar rating is NOT that high. She's at most a 5; her Ptesanwi spirit (Tatanka is her other MINOR spirit) allows her to channnel Wakan Tanka. She'd have to be a 7 to host Wakan Tanka directly, which she cannot do.


    My misunderstanding. I thought she had a closer connection to Wakan Tanka. (And that they were deliberately hiding it.)

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    Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Valentine.
    7 years 1 month ago #438 by elrodw
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  • Valentine wrote:

    elrodw wrote:

    Valentine wrote: If I remember correctly there are 4 characters that are or have the potential to be 7+ ratings. A fully trained Fey's Wiz Rating, Tennyo's Regen Rating, Jimmy T's Shifter Rating, and FUBAR's Psi rating. Kayda's Avatar Rating may be this high but no one is pushing to find out.


    Kayda's avatar rating is NOT that high. She's at most a 5; her Ptesanwi spirit (Tatanka is her other MINOR spirit) allows her to channnel Wakan Tanka. She'd have to be a 7 to host Wakan Tanka directly, which she cannot do.


    My misunderstanding. I thought she had a closer connection to Wakan Tanka. (And that they were deliberately hiding it.)


    Ah, yeah, I can understand that perception. The connection is to the Ptesanwi spirit, which gives her a very close connection to WT. It's not direct avatar, but it's more than Channeler. It's one of those oddball powers that's so very difficult to describe, as Sir Lee noted.

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    7 years 1 month ago #439 by Dreamer
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  • Katssun wrote: But there are a fair amount of 6's in Gen1. For example, Ribbon and Hippolyta are both EX-6, Regen-6.

    I remember Ribbon as being an EX-6, Regen-4 for her ratings, not Regen-6.

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    7 years 1 month ago #440 by Katssun
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  • Dreamer wrote:

    Katssun wrote: But there are a fair amount of 6's in Gen1. For example, Ribbon and Hippolyta are both EX-6, Regen-6.

    I remember Ribbon as being an EX-6, Regen-4 for her ratings, not Regen-6.

    I stand corrected. Thanks for catching it.
    7 years 1 month ago #441 by Malady
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  • I really need to go sleep, so here's my Wiki Notes:

    The Artificer Trio are called the Three Maidens in Widening Gyre, making it likely they're the same Three Maidens of Dragon Queen. Need to cite that. There were some guesses it was the TLW, but while interesting, I'm going no... AU fun tho...

    Dragon Queen (Story) reveals Lex went to Westchester Montessori, like the others, just in Gen2. Give the page a reflist, if it doesn't already have one...
    7 years 1 month ago #442 by elrodw
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  • Wondering if it would be prudent to make a separate section for crossover characters, like Kayda or SFL or Fey, labeled 2nd Generation or something. That would help place the 2nd gen stuff, and would allow someone who didn't want to see spoilers of Gen 2 to stop reading at that tag.

    If it's a good idea, it's mine. If not, I'm going to blame the extreme pain from a torn rotator cuff. :lol:

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 1 month ago #443 by Dreamer
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  • elrodw wrote: Wondering if it would be prudent to make a separate section for crossover characters, like Kayda or SFL or Fey, labeled 2nd Generation or something. That would help place the 2nd gen stuff, and would allow someone who didn't want to see spoilers of Gen 2 to stop reading at that tag.

    If it's a good idea, it's mine. If not, I'm going to blame the extreme pain from a torn rotator cuff. :lol:

    Good grief, please say you are on strong pain meds right now. I fell out of bed, some cuts and bruised right hipbone but those don't sound even close to the pain of a torn rotator cuff. :(

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    7 years 1 month ago #444 by Malady
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  • elrodw wrote: Wondering if it would be prudent to make a separate section for crossover characters, like Kayda or SFL or Fey, labeled 2nd Generation or something. That would help place the 2nd gen stuff, and would allow someone who didn't want to see spoilers of Gen 2 to stop reading at that tag.

    If it's a good idea, it's mine. If not, I'm going to blame the extreme pain from a torn rotator cuff. :lol:


    .... Some wikis use a notice image to say "Spoilers here! Don't read if you don't want to be spoiled!"

    Although, Dragonblade being a Westchester Montessori kid isn't spoilers? ... I guess we solve this Gen2 issue before we make more Gen2 edits.

    Could make a separate page for Gen2 things, like Westchester Montessori (Gen2), and link from the general page, or turn Westchester Montessori into a disambig for both pages or something.
    7 years 1 month ago #445 by elrodw
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  • My thinking was less a separate page than a separate section. To use the Sioux Falls League (which brought this to mind), the Table of Contents (top level only) is:

    Contents
    Headquarters
    Members
    Interns
    Staff
    References

    My thinking would change this to the following:

    Contents
    Headquarters
    Members
    Interns
    Staff
    Generation 2
    References

    Note - Kayda's entry already has this (in blue below):

    Contents
    MID
    Appearance
    Powers
    Classes
    Associations
    Generation 2
    References

    I think we should standardize an approach for this, however it goes, but I really would suggest NOT making a separate page for the crossover characters in Gen 2.

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #446 by Sir Lee
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  • Hmmm. The basic idea makes a lot of sense, the details of the implementation will require some thought. At the most basic level, there is a judgment call regarding whether a characters is "mainly" a Gen1 or a Gen2 character. For instance, let's take Curse of the Dragon Queen...

    There are several characters in that story that have appearances in both generations. However, only two (Jadis and Lindsay) have a significant presence on Gen1; the rest have only passing mentions and small roles.

    My judgment call would be to treat everybody BUT Jadis and Lindsay as "pure" Gen2 characters, with their appearances on Gen1 treated as "revealed backstory."

    Jadis and Lindsay, OTOH, are mainly Gen1 characters. So facts revealed in Gen2 stories should be treated as sort-of spoilers. A possible way to segregate those "spoilers" in the wiki might be, as suggested, to have specific Gen2 subtopics -- like a "character story/appearances" and a separate "Character appearances on Generation 2" (which might be simply named "Post-2016" or something like that). Similarly, other sections might get "Post-2016" subsections if relevant. I have to dig into MediaWiki syntax to see if there's a way to make those subsections to appear collapsed by default...

    ...OK, turns out it's pretty simply: just enclose the to-be-hidden text in a <div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"></div>. I just did it to the "She-Beast" page as a test.

    More details here: community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Collapsing

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.
    7 years 1 month ago #447 by Katssun
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  • I like the collapsing approach, because it can be used for both generations, with the default sections being their "primary" time.

    Generally, the collapsed portion would be for cameos, references, and the fate of a character from Gen1 who appears in Gen 2. It's pretty easy to distinguish which would be more important, because we aren't talking about New York sitcom versus Chicago sitcom spinoff. It's a 10 year split.

    But it also will work for the rare instances where the authors might want to use it in reverse. Maybe something like their Gen2 character has a major character arc about finding out they were adopted, that's used across many stories and represents a large impact to their character, but their author, or one of the others, would also like to toss in a causal reference where a side/support character gives that child up in the past.

    You wouldn't want their parent's identity to be spoiled for readers who pick up Whateley and stick to one of the generations before leaping into the older one, or vice versa. Keeps the mystery for those who want it.

    Or they are a legacy student and you don't want to reveal it, or a supervillan's child, or a hero's child who wants to join the Masterminds, and so on.
    7 years 1 month ago #448 by Valentine
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  • We also have Whateley Staff, that are active in Gen 1 and Gen 2 like the House Parents, medical staff, instructors, administrators, etc.

    Imp is still around, although Hotrod seems to have retired.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    7 years 1 week ago - 6 years 11 months ago #449 by Malady
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  • Redlinks aren't visible in certain browsers, like Android Mobile Firefox? Anyone else have that? Or just me?

    ***

    Amelie Vitesse still doesn't have a codename?? crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Vitesse_family#Amelie_Vitesse
    Last Edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 11 months ago #450 by Malady
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  • ^ Well. I made that edit to my post,

    But, this is mainly as a quick reply to the Palantir edit.

    I think she's starts at 13 for 2006. Not the school year, but the whole year. We have no indication that she's still thirteen, or not, in the TLW story...
    6 years 11 months ago #451 by Sir Lee
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  • Hmmm. Rethinking the whole issue, the only good, solid piece of evidence we have is that she's 14 by October 31, 2006. She COULD have started the school year already fourteen -- maybe she lost a school year somewhere in her past (parents enrolled her one year late to first grade? She lost a year due to "medical issues" when manifesting? Or just plain was held back due to bad grades? Who knows -- besides Bek, that is?)

    So, I'm going to remove the speculations regarding when she turned 14.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #452 by Malady
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  • For the " Template:Story_list ", like used in Phase , the storylink field is sending people to CrystalHall, instead of here...

    So the links don't work.
    Last Edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 11 months ago #453 by Sir Lee
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  • Hmmm. That's going to be a problem. It's actually caused by the Story link sub-template, which relies on a different naming scheme than whateleyacademy.net uses.

    This is going to require manual editing and probably to get ride entirely of the "story link" template -- I don't see the point of it anyway; the wiki already has two different places we keep direct links to the stories (the main story list page, and the individual pages for each story); having a third one is just redundant and adds to the maintenance headaches.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #454 by Malady
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  • Initial response [ Click to expand ]


    Self-note [ Click to expand ]


    But, yeah... Redundancy is sorta bad... ... Should we link to the tags for each character from their page?
    Last Edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #455 by Sir Lee
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  • Fortunately not too many pages uses these templates...
    But I think we will have to either figure out a (much simpler) replacement template or just edit it all out.

    I mean, the basic problem with these templates is not so much that they link to the website, but rather that they appear to rely on the page URLs being exactly consistent with the story names. And they aren't. Mostly due to mistakes that would be too much work to fix, but sometimes they are required to be different due to technical issues (like having to escape out a forbidden character). That was already true for the old site; this is thrice true to the new site, which adds the extra complication of article numbers in the URLs. It's too ambitious.

    So, I think simplifying the "Story list" template and getting rid of the "Story list entry" and "story link" templates might be the best approach... Or maybe keeping "Story list" an "story list entry" in a simpler form.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 11 months ago #456 by elrodw
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  • One thing I miss - and it may be hidden somewhere - is the summary of recent changes that included the description of what changed, as opposed to the current "recent wiki activity" which just lists pages. If it's hidden, I haven't taken the time to dig for it because I'm busy trying to write - which I assume y'all would prefer. Still, I miss what was there..

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #457 by Sir Lee
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  • I looked at Malady's recent work on the Geomancer page and... well, I have to admire someone who goes to the trouble of doing the story list twice, just to try doing both in the "established" (not really that much, actually) way and in the way they think better. And to be truthful, I think Malady's way (indented list) ends up being much simpler to edit and clearer to the visitor. So I deleted the template-based-version.

    Now it's just a matter of going through the other pages that use those templates...

    (EDIT)
    Done! Fortunately there were only three character pages, plus the sample page, using that template set. Which is now gone, by the way.

    I'm open to the idea of a new template that presents this info in a better way... but I think it would have to be done from scratch. Simply stated, those templates started with the wrong assumptions. Leaving them available would be cluttering the wiki and inviting trouble.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 11 months ago #458 by Kristin Darken
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  • Quick note that you can now find the published 'recommended reading order' articles people write in the Story zone under "Recommended Reading Orders" ... :)

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 10 months ago #459 by mittfh
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  • Righteo folks, now my life has settled down a bit, over the past few days I've compiled the full (I hope!) list of tales published since I last updated the Wiki's Lists of Canon Stories, ready to start updating them over the weekend (have a nice big push, and try not to get nearly a year behind again!)

    However, as it was mainly just grabbing the dates and wordcounts, if people can dive into the Googly sheet and sense-check it / fill in the blanks (particularly the Story / Episode fields, as they're keys; if you can estimate when undated stories took place, add the dates with " #" appended), I'd be grateful - obviously when you've filled in a blank, remove the pink background so future viewers / editors can see it's been handled (maybe even give verified fields a pale green background if you're sufficiently bored :grin: )

    --> Sheet is here <--

    As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
    6 years 10 months ago #460 by Valentine
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  • I updated some, fixed where you had Morpheus writing an Outcast story and JG writing a R&R story, added Scapegrace for POV for her story. Best guess for the start of Blood Sister, Blood Brother is mid June. Graduation stuff was June 9, 3-4 days later?

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 10 months ago #461 by Malady
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  • So, the pink is for blanks? So I should remove it from where it's not blank, right?
    6 years 10 months ago #462 by mittfh
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  • Mainly blanks, but also stuff that needs checking / correcting (e.g. incomplete PoV entries, the story number for some tales [e.g. Book of Darwin, Silver Ghost Golden Angel]). I may also have omitted Last One To Leave, which probably did best with the "Out of Continuity" tales since it sits between G1 and G2.

    With undated stories, if you can't identify exactly when they are likely to have taken place, put your best guess (e.g. Month / year, season / year, or year - if it's impossible to deduce, stick 0 in the Generation field so I can file it with "Out of Continuity")

    As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
    6 years 10 months ago #463 by Kristin Darken
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  • Just a reminder... yes, Gen 0 stories will typically be outside the primary timelines... but Gen 0 is the name of a project relating to working with trial run authors (people we are testing for canon inclusion), not the default out of continuity category. You'll tend to see "Exploring the World of the Whateley Academy" as the header/collection of such stories.

    If you want a better header for the category, instead of generation call it "Collection" and then you have OT, G2, EW, IF, FIF, etc... and it will make more sense if we add another story series, and don't just make it another generation up the timeline.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #464 by mittfh
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  • I was just using '0' in the sheet (alongside 1.1, 1.2 and 2) as an indication of which Wiki page to put the main entry on - it won't appear in any of the Wiki pages. In the case of '0' (which I've just renamed X to allay fears of wider adoption!), that'll be "Other Canon Stories", which the page itself describes as "all the Whateley Academy stories that take place outside the main continuity - this could be pre-Generation 1, post-Generation 2, or even background stories set within the timespan of the main continuity."

    Currently, it includes both dated tales such as A Good Man, Baker's Dozen, Braeburn Report, Mimeographic, Out on a Tether, Sun And Fun, The Real MCO; plus uncertain dated stories such as Razzle Dazzle, Forging Anew and Professional Courtesy.

    -oOo-
    Aside: Just spotted Bear Bitch & Everything p03 was missing so added it - if anyone's bored enough, check that nothing else has been omitted and the tales have the correct story / episode number. PoV is a lesser concern, as people can easily add other PoVs once they've been Wikified - getting them in is the initial priority (then updating the word count spreadsheet, so we can see if Elrod and Morpheus are catching up to Bek + Diane yet...)

    As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by mittfh.
    6 years 10 months ago #465 by Valentine
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  • A minor request of Sir Lee (hoping it doesn't make him surly) can you change either the banner color or the color of "Whateley Academy" in the banner. Those two blues are too close for either my monitor or my eyes. Thank you.

    BTW the Current Student List should be up to date for Fall 2007.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #466 by Sir Lee
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  • Valentine wrote: A minor request of Sir Lee (hoping it doesn't make him surly) can you change either the banner color or the color of "Whateley Academy" in the banner. Those two blues are too close for either my monitor or my eyes. Thank you.

    Hmm. I had noticed that Wikia had been fiddling with the themes (like the buttons now being sharp flat-color rectangular bricks, sorta like Windows 8/10), but I hadn't noticed that it had affected the logo. I'll look into it.

    (A few minutes later)
    There, is that better? I hope Wikia won't be changing the background back to white anytime soon...

    I found also a new(ish) thing called a "header graphic". It doesn't seem to be really useful... to the best of my knowledge, it is applied (with a transparency gradient) over the right end of the title bar, but under the icons located there. For the sake of experimenting, I placed a made a file of the maximum size (471x115 pixels) and colored it a flat bright orange (#FFA800), and put it there. As you can see, even at the rightmost end it is sort of a muddy old gold, meaning that it is still transparent enough to let some of the blue below to get through. By my reckoning the rightmost 200pixels or so are at a constant 50% transparency, and the left 271 pixels are at a gradient from 50% to 100% transparency, going right to left.

    I'm not sure what can be done with this design element. Maybe apply some texture to the right end to the bar? I can't think anything that would make sense for Whateley. A triangular tile pattern, representing the Crystal Hall geodesic dome, maybe? Hmm, that could work. Kristin, can you point me to the one you used for the Crystal Hall logo?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 10 months ago #467 by Kristin Darken
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  • Neo is responsible for current logo graphic, if I remember right.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 10 months ago #468 by Malady
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  • We have a Mrs. Mary Grayson and Mary Grayson , which both seem to be referring to the Mary who sees Imp in First Imp-ressions ... Which do we stick with?

    The former is linked from Ellen and First Imp-ressions , while the latter is only linked from the Sortable No Code Name Character Index .
    6 years 10 months ago #469 by Sir Lee
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  • Obviously a case for merging the two entries. I'll take care of it.

    Generally speaking, we only use the honorific in the page title if we don't have a full name for the character -- except if the honorific is part of an (active) codename.

    I qualify the "active" in codename because there are numerous characters (e.g. most of the Whateley teachers) who are mostly retired and prefer going by their full names -- for instance, Mrs. Carson did not really retire her Lady Astarte persona, but these days she rarely brings it out of the armoire.

    So, in most cases (active) codename trumps full name, and that trumps pretty much everything else. Alternate names are redirected. But it's a guideline, not a rule; there are too many cases that don't fit, and have to be adjusted.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 10 months ago #470 by Domoviye
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  • I've got some write ups for stories and characters, but I really hate getting it looking nice on the wiki, who would be willing to post them for me?
    Thanks.
    6 years 10 months ago #471 by Valentine
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  • Domoviye wrote: I've got some write ups for stories and characters, but I really hate getting it looking nice on the wiki, who would be willing to post them for me?
    Thanks.


    I'd be willing to do that.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 10 months ago #472 by Domoviye
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  • Thanks, I'll pm the first small batch later today.
    6 years 10 months ago #473 by Sir Lee
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  • Post them anyway, somebody can come after you and prettify the things. If you don't want to fiddle with links and references but have the information handy, just put it between parentheses at places you find appropriate.

    Ugly data beats no data any day of the week.

    However, I suggest you create a Wikia account so we know it's, well, you who are posting instead of some unknown who has to be double-checked for every comma.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 10 months ago #474 by Domoviye
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  • Got one already, I'll use it to add pictures and do basic stuff, but creating new pages is annoying. So by passing it on t someone better it saves time from fixing all the tiny little mistakes I miss.
    6 years 10 months ago #475 by Malady
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  • For the Sample Character Page , I'm thinking to actually start off talking about how to name the articles, so we have at least a guideline for consistency. I started with this, but not sure where to go from there:

    Article Naming:

    Use the codename if it's available, else use first name + last name. If there's only the first name or last name, then...

    6 years 10 months ago #476 by Sir Lee
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  • Not bad as a guideline. But there are exceptions, such as the retired supers who now teach at Whateley -- most of them are known by their full name, and see their costumed identities as "someone they were in the past." And then, the exception to the exception is the new art teacher, who introduces herself as "Ms. Imp."...

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #477 by Sir Lee
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  • I found a geodesic dome illustration which, while not quite identical to the one in the Crystal Hall logo, it's fairly similar, and incorporated it into the Wiki theme as a so-called "header graphic." Look at it in the right end of the blue title bar. It's possible to tweak it to some extent -- darkening it is easy, lightening it is just about impossible, because it is blended with the blue background color at 50% transparency or more.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 9 months ago #478 by Rose Bunny
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  • Just a heads-up, since I am not good at monkeying with this sort of thing, but Imp isn't on the Faculty list as yet. Faculty

    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan


    6 years 9 months ago #479 by Astrodragon
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  • If anyone is updating Wiki, there are a ton of G2 stories which arent mentioned.Looks like that section hasnt been updated for over a year.

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 9 months ago #480 by mittfh
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  • The various Lists of Canon Stories are over a year out of date - in previous posts, I've mentioned a Google spreadsheet I've created to keep track of them until I have enough time to Wikify them, which currently has everything up to the end of June (also transplanted into the Wordcount sheet) - hopefully later today I'll be able to get it up to date and start Wikifying them all.

    That is, unless anyone with Wiki experience, time on their hands and nothing better to do with their life fancies helping out :)

    As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
    6 years 8 months ago #481 by Malady
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  • Hmm... When should we have a disambiguation page for a character's name? 'Cause there's at least 3 Elaines, and 3 Mary-s now...

    Ugh. I should raid other wikias to find the best book infoboxes for us to replicate...
    6 years 8 months ago #482 by Sir Lee
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  • Oh, at least four Elaines. I once suggested a possible club, consisting of Loophole, Skybolt and Delta Spike. Faculty Advisor: Elaine Claire. And that's just on campus. Greg/Gracie Goodkind had a psychotherapist named Elaine Allison, for instance.

    But that's to be expected. Enforcing the " One Steve Limit " in such a large universe is just about impossible. And stretches the suspension of disbelief.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #483 by null0trooper
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  • Sir Lee wrote: But that's to be expected. Enforcing the " One Steve Limit " in such a large universe is just about impossible. And stretches the suspension of disbelief.


    Even with a minimum requirement of two name elements for a registrable name to be protected thereafter, the Society for Creative Anachronism keeps many people busy thanks to the intersection of Common Given Name with Common Surname. Even the group's well-known Special Snowflake Syndrome is no cure, because the Special Snowflakes simply gravitate to abusing an even smaller pool of name elements, having gotten them from all the same stories, books, and games as each other.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 8 months ago #484 by Valentine
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Oh, at least four Elaines. I once suggested a possible club, consisting of Loophole, Skybolt and Delta Spike. Faculty Advisor: Elaine Claire. And that's just on campus. Greg/Gracie Goodkind had a psychotherapist named Elaine Allison, for instance.

    But that's to be expected. Enforcing the " One Steve Limit " in such a large universe is just about impossible. And stretches the suspension of disbelief.


    What is funny is that Tropes page lists WU under the examples and uses the Loophole/DS example, then mentions that the rule is enforced with codenames. Unfortunately two Olympias and two Frostbites slipped through.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 8 months ago #485 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Also two Thorns - although that one was lampshaded, so presumably some resolution is planned, although we haven't seen it yet.

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    6 years 8 months ago #486 by Sir Lee
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  • I wish to welcome Kettlekorn to the group of Wiki collaborators. Korn started with a bang: 12 edits in the first few hours, including two entirely new pages.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago #487 by Kettlekorn
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  • I'm not sure what happened. I was just trying to look up some stuff about Absinthe's schedule and Collins's codename for a minor mention in a microscene about somebody else. Next thing I know, I'm tassel deep in tabs and writing up Collins's pre-Whateley history.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 8 months ago #488 by Kristin Darken
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  • awesome!

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 8 months ago #489 by Schismatism
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  • I fear I must offer my most sincere apologies to Sir Lee for forcing them to clean up after me here and there; I'm that enigmatic and pseudo-anonymous editor who's been adding minor details to pages (and writing verbose summaries of Call the Thunder). I do hope I haven't caused you too many headaches. Wikia's editing tools are a bit tricky.

    Curiosity is the engine which drives society forward.
    6 years 8 months ago #490 by Malady
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  • Well, we don't have a locked into editing system, umlike here with the WhatIfs, so you could open something for editing, indefinitely, to see how it works...

    And there's the preview option, which even I don't use as much as I should...

    If you're on mobile, though, things change a bit, 'cause of the increased difficulty in editing?
    6 years 8 months ago #491 by Sir Lee
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  • Schismatism wrote: I fear I must offer my most sincere apologies to Sir Lee for forcing them to clean up after me here and there; I'm that enigmatic and pseudo-anonymous editor who's been adding minor details to pages (and writing verbose summaries of Call the Thunder). I do hope I haven't caused you too many headaches. Wikia's editing tools are a bit tricky.

    No, it's all right, there's nothing to apologize for -- this is how it's supposed to work.
    As I have said time and again, researching is 90% of the work. Tweaking a few details here and there is MUCH less work than it would be to do the research and writing myself.
    And it would be unrealistic to demand that every contributor be an expert in the minutiae of MediaWiki syntax, much less in the ad-hoc conventions we kinda-sorta settled on for the Whateley wiki.
    So, you do the heavy lifting, and don't worry about the polishing -- one of the more experienced editors will take care of it. It's supposed to be a collaboration, not a competition.

    With that said... you might want to register to Wikia, so that your edits are clearly identified. That's how you eventually build a reputation as a contributor. There's also a number of extra settings available for registered users.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #492 by Schismatism
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  • Sir Lee wrote: No, it's all right, there's nothing to apologize for -- this is how it's supposed to work.
    As I have said time and again, researching is 90% of the work. Tweaking a few details here and there is MUCH less work than it would be to do the research and writing myself.
    And it would be unrealistic to demand that every contributor be an expert in the minutiae of MediaWiki syntax, much less in the ad-hoc conventions we kinda-sorta settled on for the Whateley wiki.
    So, you do the heavy lifting, and don't worry about the polishing -- one of the more experienced editors will take care of it. It's supposed to be a collaboration, not a competition.

    With that said... you might want to register to Wikia, so that your edits are clearly identified. That's how you eventually build a reputation as a contributor. There's also a number of extra settings available for registered users.

    Stuff and nonsense! Just because I might carry in the bookshelf doesn't mean that I shouldn't also help sweep up the sawdust left in my wake. And besides, the devil's in the details, and those can sometimes be a much bigger headache than just reading a story and condensing it down a bit.

    I'll almost certainly register for Wikia, especially with the knowledge that extra, helpful features are hanging in the wings, waiting for me to do so. Having my tag on the edits I make is comparatively meaningless; if I want to edit something, I don't care so much about who sees me do it, I just want it to be right.

    My sincerest thanks remain for your efforts in cleaning up after my large-scale edits, though, and taking care of those devilish details... such as the spelling of the Medawihla Pack's name, which no two authors seem to be able to agree upon.

    Curiosity is the engine which drives society forward.
    Last Edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Schismatism.
    6 years 8 months ago #493 by Kristin Darken
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  • Nonsense... we agree just fine. There are six packs! :whistle:

    Ok.. ok... its a spelling thing...

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 7 months ago #494 by Valentine
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  • Looking at the GSD stuff on the Wiki, I think we need to do some clean up, which I shall start.

    While much of what is listed as GSD is GSD, there is also the Spirit-Hallow-Mismatch Deformity thing that Danny, Razorback, and others have. There is also MATD like Kaiju, Belle, and Marty have. Chimerical Trait Acquisition like Bova,

    Have I missed any?

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 7 months ago #495 by Malady
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  • With the Spirit-Hallow mismatch, do the changes go all the way down to the genetic level, so that Razorback doesn't even genetically register as human anymore?

    GSD = Genetically-derived alteration of human form from the baseline. Right?
    6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #496 by Sir Lee
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  • Up for discussion: how to best deal with the "Loose Cannons" pages.

    Briefly, the current "Loose Cannons" wiki page is about the story, not the group of people. We should have discussed this more thoroughly in the past, but we didn't. So we should talk a bit about the best approach moving forward, particularly now that the second story is being posted and more pages/links are bound to appear. If Bek wants to give Word of God on this, it will be more than welcome.

    So, we have a number of possible approaches:

    1. The lazy one (keep everything pretty much the way it is):
    - Keep "Loose Cannons" as a story page title;
    - Create a "Loose Cannons (group)" page for the group.
    The pro is that it doesn't involve a lot of work now. The con is that it will give higher status, so to speak (and an easier page name to remember when linking) to a story, which is sorta limited in scope, over a group, who might be referenced in a lot more ways.

    2. The traditional one (do the same as we have done in the past for similar cases, such as Vamp, Garafena, Roulette and Whisper)
    - Rename "Loose Cannons" to "Loose Cannons (story)" -- keep ignoring the subtitle ("A Perfect Storm over California") as far as page titles go
    - Fix all the links that point to the old page
    - Create a new "Loose Cannons" page for the group
    Pro: Consistency
    Con: a bit of work. Not really that much, though -- the bot can do the heavy lifting, and there are only twenty or so incoming links, so even the ones that end up requiring hand-tweaking won't be too many.

    3. The radical one (Go further, and use the subtitle to differentiate the story page from the group page)
    - Rename "Loose Cannons" to "Loose Cannons - A Perfect Storm over California" or even to just "A Perfect Storm over Califonia"
    - Fix all the links that point to the old page
    - Create a new "Loose Cannons" page for the group
    Pro: disambiguity
    Con: Very long page name (hard to type if you aren't using the autocomplete feature and sounds unnecessarily verbose), most people think of the first story being named simply "Loose Cannons". Although if Bek gives WoG on the intended title, her preference should take precedence.

    So... thoughts?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 7 months ago #497 by Malady
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  • 6 years 7 months ago #498 by Valentine
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  • I vote for number 2 also. I doubt many people know the story as A Perfect Storm California. It's also in the story list here as Loose Cannons (Parts 1-4).

    If someone (Bek) would stop using weird story naming conventions it would be easier. :-p

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    6 years 7 months ago #499 by Sir Lee
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  • Done!

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 7 months ago #500 by Bek D Corbin
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  • Valentine wrote: If someone (Bek) would stop using weird story naming conventions it would be easier. :-p

    And where's the fun in THAT?
    6 years 6 months ago #501 by Malady
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  • ^ ... Wonder what the Denver based title's gonna be.

    ... So, we're hiding the date / year spoiler in Out on a Tether ? ... Maybe use the Spoiler functionality to hide it?
    6 years 6 months ago #502 by Sir Lee
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  • Good call. Just don't mention it in the main writeup, and add a spoiler.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #503 by Sir Lee
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  • I was entering data for the new Loose Cannons story and I noticed another case of duplicate codenames: there's a Glitter among the Las Vegas gladiators, and she does not seem to be the same as the Glitter who is a Whateley sophomore at the time and a member of C.O.R.E.

    For the time being, I just added a note to the existing Glitter entry, but we really should split those. However, I'm thinking which of them is the "more deserving" to keep the base pagename... there are good arguments for either:
    - Gladiator!Glitter probably has the name registered in her MID, while the student!Glitter probably will have to change names before graduation.
    - OTOH, Gladiator!Glitter is more likely to be a throwaway character (she might not even survive the story, freeing the codename for the student...), while student!Glitter is more likely to show up again, assuming E.E. has plans for C.O.R.E...


    Also: I wonder if the "Brillante" who have appeared on V,B,V! is an alternate spelling to the "Brilliante" who was mentioned in passing in "Ayla and the Tests"?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 6 months ago #504 by Kettlekorn
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  • I didn't get the impression that Madam Vicious would care what was on somebody's MID.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 6 months ago #505 by Sir Lee
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  • No, but we might assume that most of her gladiators are established supervillains who fell in hard times and were "sold" to her. She would keep their codenames for recognition. For instance, Death Ghost is a villains we have seen previously in Chou's Christmas story, and he was listed as one of her gladiators. She wants name recognition -- showing actual, known supervillains instead of identities created for the stage brings more interest. After all, her whole schtick is that her deathmatches are REAL, not WWE-like staged choreography like the "legit" ones in the Vegas casinos.

    The Loose Cannons are a special case: they got some notoriety and were delivered to her hands before having official codenames, so she could create her own. Even so, she went for the most part with the nicknames that were created on the spot by the HeroWatch broadcasters.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 months ago #506 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Yes, her schtick was that it was real, to everybody but the authorities, because after all, hosting REAL death matches brings with them REAL charges of murder, murder for hire, conspiracy, etc etc. And keep in mind, if YOU were a super villain, trying to get over a tough times spell, would YOU want this on your resume? Can you imagine the taunts from heroes when you do get back to the life?

    While some of these, like Death Ghost, are just that desperate, a great number will be look-a-likes and fakes. Whoever this 'Glitter' is, odds are great that isn't the name on her MID.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 4 months ago #507 by Malady
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  • Should we have a Sample Date Page, like the Sample Character and Story pages?

    If so, what should it look like?

    Like 2007-02-03 ? Weekday name as large header, Location as a 2nd level header, and only linking back to stories in references?

    'Cause I was thinking of linking back to stories in the main content as well...

    Or doing them like 2006-09-03 which has no headers, except for the references section...
    6 years 4 months ago #508 by Sir Lee
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  • Good point. I guess that's ripe for style standardization. Hmmm...

    Personally, I don't care for the gigantic level-1 title in 2007-06-23. I suppose we could just do it as a regular first paragraph - '''Saturday, February 3, 2007''' instead of =Saturday, February 3, 2007=.
    Level 1 headings are discouraged anyway, the help always suggests start by level 2 (==heading==). And it has the extra benefit of moving above the page summary if any. In fact, I'm changing it now, see how you like it.

    But subheadings are not bad -- the other page is sort of an wall of text. No hard rules here, but a good rule of thumb would be to use subheadings to separate things that happen... well, separately. Like in different geographical places, or (in case of stuff happening at Whateley, on dates when there's A LOT going on), things happening in different parts of the campus. Sometimes, separation by time period instead (or in addition to) separation by space might be appropriate. I did some of this in the other page.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 4 months ago #509 by Malady
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  • Yeah, I like the date nane as a regular first paragraph, then the locations as Level 2s and then further divisions as deeper subheading levels.

    Hmm... If for some reason, we get tons and tons of stuff happening on the same day, should we, if that happens, split the day up into subpages based on location, or time?

    Like this , which has subpages listed at the top somehow?

    Although how that's any different from a disambiguation page, I dunno?
    6 years 4 months ago #510 by Sir Lee
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  • That example would be a set of subpages called from a hatnote. It's a more complicated page-naming schema, which I don't think we really need yet. I mean, that example is essentially an humongous character page that was split into subpages. The only really big pages that we had to split due to becoming unwieldy are the character lists, and the way it was done (not by me) seems satisfactory so far, without requiring two-level page name schema.

    Dates when a whole lot happens that might (maybe) suggest subpages? Hmmm... let me see... day of arrival at Whateley (2006/2007/2016), Halloween 2006, various Combat Finals could be possibles. But I don't really think we are there yet. Calendar pages aren't supposed to give a blow-by-blow narrative, only the broad strokes anyway, so there's a lot of room for summarizing. But it's something to keep in mind for the future.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 4 months ago #511 by Malady
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  • ... Not sure how many blank date pages are there, but there's atleast 2007-03-09 , 2007-03-11 and 2007-03-12 .

    Should I just fill them with linkbacks, like "Buffalo Gal Won't You Come Out Tonight Part 4 starts on this day", etc?

    It's still information after all? *shrugs*

    ----

    So, how is this for a sample date page? ... I should have just used a big code box, like Template:Book ? And all the samples should go in the Template Category?
    6 years 4 months ago #512 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Malady wrote: ... Not sure how many blank date pages are there, but there's atleast 2007-03-09 , 2007-03-11 and 2007-03-12 .

    Should I just fill them with linkbacks, like "Buffalo Gal Won't You Come Out Tonight Part 4 starts on this day", etc?

    It's still information after all? *shrugs*

    ----

    So, how is this for a sample date page? ... I should have just used a big code box, like Template:Book ? And all the samples should go in the Template Category?


    While I like the little box down in the corner of template book that gives the at a glance stuff, that would be a lot of work for somebody and, more importantly so long as the uni moving forward, unending. That said, the Sample date page is very nicely organized and, more importantly invites people to add to it because it looks easier than the more visually appealing at a glance box.

    Now if someone wants to go back do all those, I will NOT complain(!) however the information is more useful, especially as we authors use the wiki as a quick reference, so more in the wiki is always better.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 4 months ago #513 by elrodw
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  • The following is a section-by-section analysis of three or four 'stories' this year for someone to add to the wiki, suitably fleshed out and not using my abbreviated rough English. In spoilers just in case.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #514 by Malady
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  • Actually, where do we slot in stories on the Dated Stories lists?

    Like: crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Dated_Stories_-_AY_2007-08

    Is it by order of publication? Or character? 'Cause "Glow 1 p03" has is placed two stories after part 2.

    Also, I want to add Hank 5 and Hank 6 , 'cause they're hold the only Peggy (Phoenixfire's Mysterious Sister) who could be the Mystery Peggy from "the-evil-that-men-do"?
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #515 by Sir Lee
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  • Come to think of it, I'm not really sure. Someone else was usually was the maintainer on those pages... I think Mittfh was the last regular maintainer, but it has been a while since we have seen them around... any takers?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #516 by Phoenix Spiritus
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  • Malady wrote: Also, I want to add Hank 5 and Hank 6 , 'cause they're hold the only Peggy (Phoenixfire's Mysterious Sister) who could be the Mystery Peggy from "the-evil-that-men-do"?


    You mean besides Soaring ?
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.
    6 years 3 months ago #517 by Sir Lee
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  • Well, we got another wiki-spammer. It had been a while since the last one. Already blocked to the maximum extent, edits deleted and stuff...

    ...but it was a rather curious spamming, in that it didn't seem totally random. Here's the thing: the alleged merchandise being pushed was something supposed to induce "male breast enlargement" for M2F transgendered people. And they didn't edit existing pages, either -- rather, they only added a single page (plus an image).

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 weeks ago - 6 years 2 weeks ago #518 by Malady
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  • So, 'cause Spooky was a Junior High Kid, and should go in Junior High Program ...

    It's split into Gen1 and Gen2, but I'm not sure if Spooky goes in Gen1... Or a hypothetical Gen0, because as of Gen1, she's not a Junior High kid...
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 weeks ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 weeks ago #519 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: It's split into Gen1 and Gen2, but I'm not sure if Spooky goes in Gen1... Or a hypothetical Gen0, because as of Gen1, she's not a Junior High kid...


    Does she show up in any stories that take place completely before or after 2006-2011?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 2 weeks ago #520 by Malady
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  • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: It's split into Gen1 and Gen2, but I'm not sure if Spooky goes in Gen1... Or a hypothetical Gen0, because as of Gen1, she's not a Junior High kid...


    Does she show up in any stories that take place completely before or after 2006-2011?


    No, don't think so. ... How's that change things?
    6 years 2 weeks ago #521 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: It's split into Gen1 and Gen2, but I'm not sure if Spooky goes in Gen1... Or a hypothetical Gen0, because as of Gen1, she's not a Junior High kid...


    Does she show up in any stories that take place completely before or after 2006-2011?


    No, don't think so. ... How's that change things?


    If she only appears in stories from the Gen 1 timeframe, then Gen 1 is where she goes, right?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    5 years 11 months ago #522 by E. E. Nalley
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  • So, for some reason Wiki has discontinued Monobook skin and our wiki looks terrible and is very difficult to navigate. The monobook skin is still available for download, is there anyway to make a template or some other way to force the wiki into something easier to use and closer to the old look?

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #523 by Sir Lee
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  • Yeah, it has been coming for a long time. Wikia has been disabling alternative skins one at a time. This latest one used the European GDPR deadling as an excuse. So it seems that we are forced to use their default skin (Oasis) now.
    Short of moving the entire wiki to a different host (which is possible, but would be a bit drastic), I don't see real good options. There's a guy who developed a script called "Pseudo Monobook" ( dev.wikia.com/wiki/PseudoMonobook ) which is supposed to add back some Monobook-style features to Oasis. But, since it get rid of the ads, I think it won't be long before Wikia/Fandom stomps on it. Also, I'm not sure if it can be enabled/disabled in a per-user preference basis; I'll need to do some more reading before I decide whether to test it.

    (Addendum)
    Well, it seems to work. It does not look like Monobook, but it brings back the sidebar and some of the functionality. I don't think you can add it to the wiki by default, it seems more to be an user-preferences thing.
    You have to add the line below:
    @import url('/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&mode=articles&articles=u:dev:MediaWiki:PseudoMonobook.css&only=styles');
    to your personal CSS. You can do it for all Wikia projects by editing your global CSS here:
    community.wikia.com/wiki/Special:MyPage/global.css
    or just for Whateley Wikia here:
    crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Special:MyPage/common.css

    Small caveat: it also disables some of the custom styling on the wiki, such as the wallpaper and the top graphic.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 11 months ago #524 by E. E. Nalley
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  • I just uploaded the Psuedo Monobook to my CSS feed to change it for me alone and it's...better...but still not optimal. Let me know how your experiments go, Sir Lee.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    5 years 10 months ago - 5 years 10 months ago #525 by Malady
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  • I've been hesitant to make Story pages, because I know I don't have the time to turn them from stubs to full pages.

    But I guess I should, so we get the full story chains in the wiki, right? ... Just get the knowledge in, and cleaning can follow. ... We have the Stub category for a reason.

    Actually, what comes after The Best Days of our Lives ?

    And we should add that timeline stuff that Elrod posted a while ago... Ah. Here, right in the last page.

    ----

    Best Days is causing problems, 'cause "Dated Stories - AY 2006-07" is looking for "Kayda 8 - The Best Days of Our Lives"...

    ----

    What should Ptesanwi link to? Should it / she get their own page? Or just redirect to a subsection, like Pejuta#Powers, or "Wakan Tanka"?
    Last Edit: 5 years 10 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 10 months ago #526 by Sir Lee
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  • OK, both issues are fixed. I added a link to Crying for a Dream as the following story after Best Days..., and put a redirect from "Kayda 8 etc etc" to "The Best Days..."

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 10 months ago #527 by Astrodragon
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  • Would it be possible to update the list of G2 stories on the wiki page? Please?
    Currently it only contains a small portion of the published stories.

    Theres lots of other G2 stuff not there, but the list of stories seems to me the most important

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    5 years 10 months ago #528 by Malady
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  • I 'would' update the G2 Story List , if I could figure out how it's sorted on page load... It seems like its sorting by story?

    Might as well finish Kansas and call Glimpses of the Sun as a continuation of Islands in the Sun.

    There, there's now entries for every story in the first page of Gen2 stories if sorted by oldest to newest. ... Now to do the next pages... Later...
    5 years 10 months ago #529 by Astrodragon
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  • Malady wrote: I 'would' update the G2 Story List , if I could figure out how it's sorted on page load... It seems like its sorting by story?

    Might as well finish Kansas and call Glimpses of the Sun as a continuation of Islands in the Sun.

    There, there's now entries for every story in the first page of Gen2 stories if sorted by oldest to newest. ... Now to do the next pages... Later...


    Cookies for you! :)

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #530 by Malady
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  • Wait... Okay, Gen1 stories are listed according to the Class of their main character, if they haven't gotten to Whateley yet?

    That's why Silver Ghost and the Loose Cannons are in AY 2007-08? Because they start as freshmen in 2007-2008, presumably?

    And if the characters are already at Whateley, the stories are listed according to the year the events happen in?

    ----

    So, A Little R&R's location in AY 2006-07 is wrong? Because its events are happening in AY 2007-08 , where Roulette and Steel Ribbon are?

    Same with some of the later Kayda stories?

    ----

    Gen2 - How are its stories initially sorted? Apparently from Start Date of the story's events?

    ... Yeah, seems like it, just tested with the Sort function. Gotta date those later Kansas-es and remove that blank line...

    Later. Gotta go do a thing.
    Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 9 months ago #531 by Sir Lee
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  • An anonymous visitor to the Wiki posted (quite politely) the following information in the talk page for "Sahar":

    This name is incorrect as is the definition. Sahar means moon. What the author should have used is Sahir (which is not Arabic but Urdu and means "magician" or "enchanter" not "evil eye". The Arabic version is a name that means "one who stays up late at night" or "one whos stays up caring for a sick person".


    Now, I can see ways to incorporate this info to the entry in an unobtrusive way... but the thing is, the poster was anonymous. They might be 100% correct, they might be partially wrong, they might be totally wrong, they might even be a troll. I have no way to tell. And my knowledge of Middle Eastern languages is zero.

    So... does anybody know someone who does know Arabic, Urdu and such and could check the claim for correctness? And, if so, possibly to supply the correct spelling for the word in Arabic/Urdu and maybe the IPA pronunciation?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #532 by null0trooper
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  • "alsaahir/sahir" does seem to be "the magician/magician" in Arabic, but I'm using a Google translation of Islam QA Info (I had a quote by Imam as-Sadiq to search by for a page using the term)

    Edit: Maybe the correction is coming from Wikipedia , though the page states that "Sahar" is also used in Arabic.

    سحر ("sahar") translates to "charm", "magic", "witchcraft", "spell", etc. in Google's translator,

    The trouble is that baby name books and their derived websites are close to useless for name origins and meanings, and they all copy off each other.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by null0trooper.
    5 years 9 months ago #533 by Valentine
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  • The other problem comes from translating alphabets, look at Tsar, Tzar, Csar, and Czar. My Polish last name got mangled on Ellis Island in several ways, none of which are pronounced correctly. Googling the way it should have been spelled by pronunciation gives links to the American or at least the common American spelling.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    5 years 9 months ago #534 by null0trooper
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  • In the page regarding the Eureka County Mine War, it might be useful to note that both Carlin and the location described for Ft. Carlin are in Elko County, NV, even though the Yankee Eagle Mine and the Nuestra Señora de la Buena Fortuna Mine may be in Eureka County.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    5 years 9 months ago #535 by Sir Lee
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  • True. Another interesting tidbit is that Eureka County itself was brand-new at the time, having been created just one year previously, after silver was found. Apparently the new county was very sparsely populated, so it's not surprising that a lot of business went to neighboring Carlin.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 8 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #536 by Sir Lee
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  • I have been experimenting with an infobox for the story pages -- mainly because I wanted a place, outside the main page body, to put the story blurbs from the old site (which can still be found in the Wayback Machine ). I created an infobox named " Storybox " and I'm using the " Silent Nacht " page for a test, although in hindsight it might not have been the best choice, since there are parts of the infobox that won't be used there.

    I started adding stuff that seemed well-suited for the table format (author, main character, other characters, relevant dates, previous/following story...) but now I'm worried that the table is getting too complex. So, I would appreciate suggestions and criticism.

    At this point, this is just a test. Please don't add the "storybox" template to other pages until we have a chance to file the rough edges of the thing.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 8 months ago #537 by Malady
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  • The blurb is too long to make sense as an infobox section, if it's that size...

    But, if you make the infobox as the whole page or something... Perhaps have a ChapterBox for chapters, and basically make the story page totally out of infoboxes... That ''could'' work?

    Or just take the blurb out of the infobox and place it normally on the page?
    5 years 8 months ago #538 by E. E. Nalley
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  • I have to say I like the box. It's great to be able to recover those blurbs, some of which got some long thought, and visually I think its very professional and in line with That Other Wiki. I think I would change 'blurb' to 'Dust Jacket' maybe? Or Synopsis or something like that. But otherwise, I would like to see it adopted.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    5 years 8 months ago #539 by Sir Lee
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  • Blurb size: the one for "Silent Nacht" is probably around average -- there are longer blurbs, but there are also shorter ones. So blurb size is a valid concern. I don't agree that it's "too big", though -- most infoboxes (check other wikis for examples, such as ones dedicated to TV series) include a picture, which takes about as much space as the blurb. And the blurb is, in a sense, the "cover pic" of the story.
    Note that the infobox as a whole is using the Wikia default formatting. There's room for tweaking (smaller fonts, for instance). I would like the individual items to be closer packed together, for instance -- I think there's an excess of "white space". And I would like to have the blurb to take the full width of the infobox, instead of being constrained to the right of the word "blurb" (which would be moved to the top), but I didn't figure out yet how to do that.

    "Having the whole page in the infobox": definitely not. For one thing, it would constrain the page too much. For another, it goes against the whole idea of the infobox, which is give a quick glance at the essential stats of the page without having to dig into the text.

    "Moving the blurb into the main page body:" I considered it, but I felt that it didn't really fit the flow of the story writeups. The infobox also allows us to remove from the body some info that we currently insert that also breaks the flow -- such as posting dates.

    "Using some other wording instead of 'blurb'": valid point. "Dust jacket" is a possibility, "back cover text" is another. I would appreciate more suggestions.

    "Chapter boxes": A possible enhancement for multi-chapter stories -- particularly interesting for interleaving ones, which would afford us the possibility of providing links, say, from "The Second Book of Jobe, Chapter 2" to "No Beast So Fierce" and from that back to "The Second Book of Jobe, Chapter 3" (I may be mistaken about the particular chapter order in that example). But not all stories have chapters, so I prefer to table this discussion for a later date, after we achieve some consensus on the desirability (or not) and particulars of the story box.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 8 months ago #540 by Malady
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  • Ah. By "blurb is too big", I meant "Looks too "wall-of-text-y", but if font and stuff can be changed, it could work?

    The rest of the storybox is good though.
    5 years 8 months ago #541 by null0trooper
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  • If you could get it down to 6 pt., it can double as a vision test.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    5 years 8 months ago #542 by CrazyMinh
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  • OK!!! FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GET THE STUFF FROM CRYSTAL CON INTO THE WIKI, PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY!!!

    I will attach the logs as a .txt file here. DO NOT READ FROM THE .TXT!!! It is almost COMPLETELY Indecipherable, and requires this website to properly read. THE TXT IS ATTACHED TO THIS MESSAGE, AND IS ALSO IN THE 'ENJOY CRYSTAL CON' THREAD

    Hope everyone enjoyed Crystal Con. The site will stay up for next year and the future beyond that. See everyone next year for Crystal Con 2019.

    File Attachment:

    File Name: dht.txt
    File Size:1,198 KB

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    5 years 8 months ago #543 by Cryptic
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  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lancer picked up a,magical little buddy,? That needs added.

    Duplexes page has a wonky mimic link that connects to shape shifter.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    5 years 8 months ago #544 by Sir Lee
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  • You mean the pint-sized Fey-clone? Yeah, we are in need of someone to do the writeup on that -- and, in fact, there's probably a bunch of other Hank info that need to be added. Are you volunteering? ;)

    As for Duplex, yeah, I noticed it too a few days ago. Thing is, Duplex has a bit of a weird power -- she changes p

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 8 months ago #545 by Cryptic
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  • Haven't read the Hank stories yet so nope not volunteering.

    I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.
    5 years 8 months ago #546 by JG
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  • Cryptic wrote: Haven't read the Hank stories yet so nope not volunteering.


    Tell you now, the longer you wait, the longer you screw yourself out of good story.
    5 years 7 months ago #547 by Kristin Darken
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: I have to say I like the box. It's great to be able to recover those blurbs, some of which got some long thought, and visually I think its very professional and in line with That Other Wiki. I think I would change 'blurb' to 'Dust Jacket' maybe? Or Synopsis or something like that. But otherwise, I would like to see it adopted.


    Even if they're not accessible via Wayback or Internet Archive, I DO still have them all saved along with all the old site data (including forums and page layouts, etc). It's always been my intent to eventually include the blurbs on the site... most probably by altering how the story headings work: ie
    Story Category
    Title
    by Name

    Story Part
    Blurb text / jacket. lsdkgfm dflkgk sfg slkgm soai sdf gldkfa aowke lka aglkg alk aglkd aoae awo alkme fk go zcxvmp aiv arei ampf epa wf afpwaoe faf eomwaoem. awfmi aoef awimf iae flke aeli fiag ogroim rlkm gaongkf . gsdf asdfig oaidfg om sda.g go sdfg aosdfig oir .g oi go goirg oirg aoirg oiaergnutnbagnagnom groia goiaerm .

    Protagonist: Name .................................................. (Arc) (and) (Character) (Tags)
    Original release date ............................................. In Universe Start Date

    ( Read more tag )
    Title - Part - Author Name

    Story body. - dsfgoi sd osdifg sdogfi sdofig sodf goaid goasd fglkam sdflkg asdfgk alfgmoairmg oiarm gaklrmg lakr glkar g armozemgomrg zldkfmgv. gmagm.zsdfg, agaergoarega gaergnmaorgm lfdkg malkdfgm.zdfg moiermgoalgm. rogimrgmlkgmroisgragogna aolrgkmaf dgoigmr erogi erio e ooi mgsgdon glfdbkmsosif asgo g lrgremgoaegoin .

    eogrimogi mr. ogreia ogarie. agroim oarig

    Vote . .......................... # Reads ...... Last Altered

    Comments
    -
    -
    -




    Or something like that. I may ultimately have to code a layout php to get the stories to display the way I want them because sadly, most every extension is built around the idea of news or blog articles and not stories.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #548 by Sir Lee
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  • I have been pulling those blurbs either from the Internet Archive or from my own private story copies (I like having the blurb at the top of the story, so I often added them).
    Anyway, I figured a couple improvements to the infobox, as can be seen in the Silent Nacht where I'm testing the concept. Now if I can center text and figure out why the "end date" box is darker...

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 7 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #549 by Sir Lee
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  • Xaltatun is back! He just did a BUNCH of edits on the wiki.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #550 by Malady
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  • IIRC, if we have multiple characters with the same name, we make Disambiguation pages and names that help with that, right?

    'Cause we have Card Trick , and Cardtrick , the latter being a Wanted Page .
    5 years 6 months ago #551 by Sir Lee
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  • In this case, since the names are similar but not identical, instead of a disambiguation what we do is to add a "hat note" to the top of each page looking like this:

    Card Trick
    This page is about the hero member of the Sioux Falls League. For the member of the Wrecking Crew, see Cardtrick

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #552 by Malady
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  • I suppose we use existing disambiguations, like John , as a template for names like Carl ... The latter currently is a normal page, but it seems it should be moved, since Carl (HPARC) is a Wanted Page .

    TTYL!
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #553 by Sir Lee
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  • Good point. I'm of two minds regarding moving "Carl" to "Carl (werewolf)" or "Carl (Medawihla)". The first is easier to understand, the second is more specific.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #554 by Malady
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  • I guess "Carl (Medawihla werewolf)" would be too long.

    EDIT: "Carl (Medawihla)" would be consistent with other Medawihla characters, from the Wanted Pages...
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #555 by Malady
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  • Double Post for new topic:

    Should Don't Call Me a Pretty be moved to Reinforce: Don't Call Me a Pretty or have the latter as a redirect or something, since that seems to be the full canon title .

    And the "Reinforce:" one is causing a redlink from Worm .

    ----

    Then there's stories like the ones under the Imp Tag which are titled "Imp 5: ...", and 6, and 7, etc, even in the story page.

    We've already got some links for "Head_over_Tail" ...

    ----

    And Absinthe 2: The Absinthe of Malice.

    Plus, should it be "Absinthe (story)", or should "story" be capitalized, like "Roulette (Story)"?
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #556 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Help!

    I've just returned and am attempting to get the day by day timeline in order again, but I've hit a snag, or rather two snags.

    The first one is on "A Little R&R." The first date entry keeps throwing an error with the ref entry. I've tried just about everything I can imagine, and the error won't go away. That's page 2007-08-27. (I haven't put any of the other date entries in yet - they're ready to go, but it doesn't seem reasonable to do it until this is resolved.)

    Another thing I noted is that a lot of the stories seem to have stub entries (or maybe real entries) that are not in the sortable table. How is anyone finding them?
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #557 by Malady
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  • Oh! ... You were using some weird apostrophes that curved, instead of the straight Unicode ones, I think.

    What stories are unlisted? You checked their "WhatLinksHere" pages?

    If I made them, I might not have added them due to not figuring out how the list coding works...

    Or not knowing precisely when the events occurred?

    ----

    Should " Siblings & Savages " be a redirect to "Siblings and Savages"?

    ----

    And " Humanity First " to "Humanity First!"?
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #558 by Sir Lee
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  • Malady wrote: Should Don't Call Me a Pretty be moved to Reinforce: Don't Call Me a Pretty or have the latter as a redirect or something, since that seems to be the full canon title .

    And the "Reinforce:" one is causing a redlink from Worm .

    ----

    Then there's stories like the ones under the Imp Tag which are titled "Imp 5: ...", and 6, and 7, etc, even in the story page.

    ----

    And Absinthe 2: The Absinthe of Malice.

    Plus, should it be "Absinthe (story)", or should "story" be capitalized, like "Roulette (Story)"?


    Tough call. I would prefer leaving out such prefixes, but that's my personal preference, not settled policy, and other editors have different views on that. The view that "if the author put the prefix there, then it's part of the official title" is pretty prevalent. The Jade stories are all listed with the prefixes, for instance.

    There are other stories with naming issues that never got settled. For instance, take Fey's first story -- one of the original three (I think) stories that fired up the Whateley universe. It's listed as "Fey: Mom, I Don't Feel So Good," but I disagree that this is the appropriate name of the story -- to my view, the story is title simply "Fey", and "Mom, I Don't Feel So Good" is the title of the first chapter, not the whole story. There are other "subtitles" further down which have the same level of highlighting as "Mom, I Don't Feel So Good".

    Mind you, one of the reasons we never even discussed changing those things in the past was that everybody was afraid that (a) it would involve a lot of mind-numbing work that could very well be directed to adding new stuff, and (b) it might break stuff up. Since then, we learned a lot (use redirects to avoid breakage, use bots to do the heavy lifting on such renaming), so we now could do it relatively quickly. Whether we should change those titles is a whole different matter.

    I don't feel comfortable taking this sort of decision. Not even by means of a sort of referendum. The people best suited to settle such a question -- namely if prefixes should be considered part of the title -- are the ones who actually wrote the stories. Not all of them are available, but I think that (as long as we don't change the actual stories) the currently available TINCC could give a Word of God on how the stories should be listed and indexed.

    As for (story) being capitalized, I feel comfortable enough to rule on that. Since it's not actually part of the title, there's no good reason why (story) should be capitalized. If it is, it's a typo. I'll look into Roulette...

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #559 by Sir Lee
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  • Malady wrote: Should " Siblings & Savages " be a redirect to "Siblings and Savages"?
    ----
    And " Humanity First " to "Humanity First!"?

    Sure. Those are just spelling variants, and in both cases the existing page has the correct, canonical spelling. This is one of the major uses of redirects. I'll sometimes create a redirect for a likely spelling variant even if there isn't currently any page linking to that variant. Or, after using the bot to fix the original links so they target the correct page, I'll leave the redirect up.

    Note: I only leave up unused redirects for legitimate spelling variants (such as Reverend England/Reverend Englund), not for outright misspellings. However, even in the case of misspellings, a redirect is useful as a stopgap measure -- and it helps the bot when we go crawling to fix the misspelled links. Redirects have a funny effect: if you let the editor autocomplete a link, it will give you the target name even if it's quite different from what you typed. Well, that's true for the code editor, anyway -- I don't use the WYSIWYG editor.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #560 by Sir Lee
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  • As for those "curly quotes"... I think Xalt is using something like Microsoft Word, LibreOffice or Google Docs as a scratchpad. That would be the likely cause for all those problems. It's possible to turn out the "smart quotes" feature, but it usually is not worth the bother.

    Myself, I prefer using a programmer's editor for that. There are a bunch of excellent ones available gratis, like Notepad++ (And, if you happen to like the "modern"-style apps for Windows 10 -- I don't -- there's a product named NotepadPro that's currently free -- it should return to regular pricing in a few days).

    Anyway... I think I'll have to figure out some way to use AutoWikiBrowser to go through all recent edits and fix those pesky curly quotes. It shouldn't be TOO hard... and it's a long weekend, so I should be able to find the time.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #561 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Thanks! That worked, so I'll get the rest of the timeline entries for A Little R&R in a little bit.

    I'll see what I can do about getting them into the sortable index as I come to them.

    Xaltatun
    5 years 6 months ago #562 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Actually, I'm on a Mac using TextEdit. I need to ponder whether turning smart quotes off in the preferences is worth having to change the preferences depending on what I'm doing. I was using Aquamacs (a visual version of Emacs), but the last update broke something, snd most of the macros I was using won't install any more.

    Xaltatun
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #563 by Phoenix Spiritus
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  • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Actually, I'm on a Mac using TextEdit. I need to ponder whether turning smart quotes off in the preferences is worth having to change the preferences depending on what I'm doing. I was using Aquamacs (a visual version of Emacs), but the last update broke something, snd most of the macros I was using won't install any more.

    Xaltatun


    If your using TextEdit unless you want formatting it’s probably best to View as Plain Text, that will convert the text to something closer to what poorly written, American centric webpages expect (i.e ASCII).

    The Whateley Site handles Unicode fine, but you need to remember when copy and pasting from any word processing product that the Rich Text to HTML converters built into the Copy Paste for these programs spews junk HTML like a cruise ship in a hurricane, so cleaning the HTML in a text editor is polite.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.
    5 years 6 months ago #564 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Of course, Please remember that I'm a retired software developer who got his start programming using punched cards on a system with vacuum tubes. I always use TextEdit in text mode, never in smart mode. However, I have smart quotes turned on, because that's what I use for fiction.

    The story I'm working on now is Absinthe. I'll probably be posting a lot of new pages later today.
    5 years 6 months ago #565 by Sir Lee
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  • OK. I tested AutoWikiBrowser to fix the curly quotes issue, and it works, sort of -- I fixed a whole bunch of pages, but I need to find a better way to filter the pages, because, well... currently it is drowning me in just too many pages, and I had to quit before the heat death of the universe, or dinner, whatever came first.
    Briefly, I tried to filter for Xalt's contributions. It worked -- but gave me EVERYTHING he ever edited, even from years ago. Worse, if he worked in a page multiple times, it presented me that page multiple times too. I have to find a better way...

    So... while I think I caught *most* of the pages with issues, a few might have slipped.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #566 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Sir Lee wrote: OK. I tested AutoWikiBrowser to fix the curly quotes issue, and it works, sort of -- I fixed a whole bunch of pages, but I need to find a better way to filter the pages, because, well... currently it is drowning me in just too many pages, and I had to quit before the heat death of the universe, or dinner, whatever came first.
    Briefly, I tried to filter for Xalt's contributions. It worked -- but gave me EVERYTHING he ever edited, even from years ago. Worse, if he worked in a page multiple times, it presented me that page multiple times too. I have to find a better way...

    So... while I think I caught *most* of the pages with issues, a few might have slipped.


    As far as I'm aware, the only place where smart quotes vs straight quotes matters is inside tags. In running text it simply doesn't matter, and I prefer smart quotes. It looks better. Since most of the pqges, in fact work, there is no issue.
    5 years 6 months ago #567 by Sir Lee
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  • Curly quotes are an issue whenever MediaWiki syntax requires straight quotes. That is, roughly speaking:
    1. Parameters such as names for <rel> tags (<rel name="...">
    2. Bold and italic.

    And I generally agree with you, I don't have an issue with curly quotes in body text, and if I could fix only the place where it affects wikisyntax, I would. But it's not really easy to distinguish between those in AutoWikiBrowser -- I can either let it "fix" the entire page, or nothing. So I look at each page, and if none of the curly quotes break wiki syntax, I hit "skip." If there's one such case, I hit "go," and it changes *all* curly quotes.

    Main issue is really filtering. If I can find a way to restrict the filtering to a much lesser number of pages, I could do more hand-tweaking instead of relying on AWB's less subtle find-and-replace.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #568 by Sir Lee
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  • Figured out better the filtering for AWB, squashed a bunch more typos. Looking into something AWB says it's... well, not exactly an error, but... discouraged? Anyway, I'll research it a bit to figure out if it's worth changing.

    EDIT: figured it out. There are actually two things that AWB keeps detecting that whoever programmed it seems to think are no-nos (probably due to Wikipedia style guidelines):

    1. Starting the page with a subheading right on top, with no introductory text.
    2. Having the "See also" section after the "References" section.

    I don't think that either one is reason to get one's nose out of joint. I personally might take more care in the future to avoid those situations, but I won't bother to go into an edit spree to "fix" such minor stylistic issues, much less devise (heh) a way to "fix" those via AWB.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #569 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Figured out better the filtering for AWB, squashed a bunch more typos. Looking into something AWB says it's... well, not exactly an error, but... discouraged? Anyway, I'll research it a bit to figure out if it's worth changing.

    EDIT: figured it out. There are actually two things that AWB keeps detecting that whoever programmed it seems to think are no-nos (probably due to Wikipedia style guidelines):

    1. Starting the page with a subheading right on top, with no introductory text.
    2. Having the "See also" section after the "References" section.

    I don't think that either one is reason to get one's nose out of joint. I personally might take more care in the future to avoid those situations, but I won't bother to go into an edit spree to "fix" such minor stylistic issues, much less devise (heh) a way to "fix" those via AWB.


    The timeline pages have that issue. I'll change my default format to fix it them, although it'll add a bit of work since I have to say something at the front a bit more interesting than 'duh...". Is there a default timeline page?
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #570 by Malady
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  • ^ - Well, it seems you've found it, so that's good.

    crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Sample_Date_Page

    ----

    Maybe yeah, noting what day of the week it is, at the top, and if it's a special holiday or something.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #571 by Malady
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  • So, Wanted Pages has "Blood Sister, Blood Brother", and "Blood-Sister, Blood-Brother".

    IIRC, we've never used dashes before, but I assume the latter is the one we should use?

    Since that's what the story uses?

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/original-t...sister-blood-brother

    ----

    Also, I guess "Marty" should be made into a disambig between all the different possible ones, like Mega-Girl, Photech (Marty Prescot), and Silver Linings' "Morning with Marty" host, Marty Prescott...

    Currently Marty is linked from Curse of the Dragon Queen's , name for a dead Witchknight.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #572 by Sir Lee
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  • Good points.
    On the first: actual story usage always wins, unless the author tells us otherwise. (Sometimes there are spelling variants, particularly in names. For those, we put the entry on the predominant/canonical/Word of God variant, and put a redirect in the alternate).

    On "Marty": actually, since it's a single link, the best option (which I just did, by the way) is to edit the original page to make the link more specific. Turned out that there were a few other characters there linked just by first name, and I went and changed them too.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #573 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • I'm beginning work on Ribbon 2: All Knotted Up, and I'm wondering about the title: should it be Ribbon 2: All Knotted Up or just All Knotted Up?
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #574 by Sir Lee
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  • Paging the author, paging the author... Morpheus, we need a ruling here.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #575 by Valentine
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Paging the author, paging the author... Morpheus, we need a ruling here.


    He's busy...



    Undoing knots. :roflmao:

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    5 years 6 months ago #576 by Malady
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  • We've got wanted pages from Ayla and the Late Trevor James Goodkind with names like Sergeant Byrd, and Sergeant Mulligan, which have pages under names like Byrd, and Mulligan, respectively.

    Should those pages be moved to ones with something in parentheses? Like how we have "Craig (Boston PD SWAT)"?
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #577 by Sir Lee
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  • Seems reasonable to me.

    Edit: and done!

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #578 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Paging the author, paging the author... Morpheus, we need a ruling here.


    Well, I'm simply going to go with the title the way it's in the story. If Morpheus wants it the other way, we can alias it. That leaves one of the Imp stories out in the cold, though, since it fits between Imp 4 and Imp 5, and doesn't have a number.

    So, to keep on with Morpheus stories in publication order, Imp 4 is up next. That leaves the orphan as Imp 4A, I suspect.
    5 years 6 months ago #579 by Sir Lee
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  • Something I would like to open for discussion... and that's links in subheadings.

    It's one of those things that are not really wrong per se -- MediaWiki allows it -- but I have seen mentions that it is discouraged. There are lots of those "discouraged" things, which does not mean that we should adopt those are hard rules blindly, but we should at least look into the reasons why such practice is discouraged.

    In this particular case, I think I figured out the reason: it makes it harder to link to that subheading -- because the internal ID (the thing that goes after the # in a link address) is not what one would expect it to be.

    So, maybe we should think of other ways to add the outbound links without making it harder for inbound links to work?

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #580 by Malady
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  • Sir Lee wrote: In this particular case, I think I figured out the reason: it makes it harder to link to that subheading -- because the internal ID (the thing that goes after the # in a link address) is not what one would expect it to be.


    How do the links change?

    A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-12 (Heading is a link), and A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-16 (Heading is not a link), both seem to follow the same format...
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #581 by Sir Lee
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  • Huh. So I seem to be mistaken. I could swear I had tested it in the past and it had resulted in broken links... well, semi-broken; they still linked correctly to the page, just couldn't find the subheading.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #582 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Malady wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: In this particular case, I think I figured out the reason: it makes it harder to link to that subheading -- because the internal ID (the thing that goes after the # in a link address) is not what one would expect it to be.


    How do the links change?

    A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-12 (Heading is a link), and A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-16 (Heading is not a link), both seem to follow the same format...


    The dates in parts 2 and 3 don't have the link brackets. I've fixed them. I'm going to check Imp 4 next.
    5 years 6 months ago #583 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

    Malady wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: In this particular case, I think I figured out the reason: it makes it harder to link to that subheading -- because the internal ID (the thing that goes after the # in a link address) is not what one would expect it to be.


    How do the links change?

    A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-12 (Heading is a link), and A Glow in the Darkness#2007-08-16 (Heading is not a link), both seem to follow the same format...


    The dates in parts 2 and 3 don't have the link brackets. I've fixed them. I'm going to check Imp 4 next.


    It doesn't look like it needs the link brackets - it'll use any heading as the link target, regardless of how deep it is. The brackets are still useful to link back to the timeline page, though.
    5 years 6 months ago #584 by Sir Lee
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  • That was the whole point/issue -- if having the brackets interfered in linking to those subheadings. I seemed to remember it did interfere, but Malady tested it and found that no, it does not interfere. At least for simple, straigthforward links; I haven't tested to see what happens in the case of more complex links.
    ==2007-10-28== is fine, it can be found by adding #2007-10-28 to the page name/address.

    It may be the case that I was relying in outdated info (it's possible that an older release of MediaWiki had trouble with such links but it's no longer the case), or it may be the case that it was never a problem and I was completely wrong on the reasons why I have seen mentions of this as a discouraged practice. Nevertheless, Malady is correct, it works.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #585 by Malady
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  • 2007-02-27 has no stories contributing info, and is a redirect back to 2007-02...

    Should we delete the page for now, since there's no info, or just change it so it's a date page without any information, but just linking to the previous and following days, and its month?

    The link to the previous day in the code, would need fixing then...

    '''Tuesday, February 27, 2007'''
    
    ==References==
    {{reflist}}
    
    ==See Also==
    *[[2007-02|February Calendar]]
    *[[2007-02-26|Previous Day]]
    *[[2007-02-28|Following Day]]
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #586 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Malady wrote: 2007-02-27 has no stories contributing info, and is a redirect back to 2007-02...

    Should we delete the page for now, since there's no info, or just change it so it's a date page without any information, but just linking to the previous and following days, and its month?

    The link to the previous day in the code, would need fixing then...

    '''Tuesday, February 27, 2007'''
    
    ==References==
    {{reflist}}
    
    ==See Also==
    *[[2007-02|February Calendar]]
    *[[2007-02-26|Previous Day]]
    *[[2007-02-28|Following Day]]


    I'd say leave it as blank (maybe with a "this space intentionally left blank" note.)

    What happens if a non-administrator tries to create a page with the same name as a deleted page?
    5 years 6 months ago #587 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: Should we delete the page for now, since there's no info, or just change it so it's a date page without any information, but just linking to the previous and following days, and its month?


    There have been times when I've been looking for a specific scene without remembering the exact story, and tried searching day by day. Most people would not expect to call up the whole month when clicking on "Previous Day".

    For "blank days", links to the stories that span that time frame would be nice even if there's nothing written up on the stories for that day. Stories with large gaps (weeks, years) would call for a forward text link instead of creating dozens, hundreds, or thousands of "nothing interesting here" pages.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #588 by Malady
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  • Shouldn't the teachers from "Wednesday Morning, 5AM" be moved to their codenames instead being in their real names?

    Clifford Maxwell (Midnight) , and Jack Duncan (Gizmo)

    ----

    @Null - Make a page on the wiki showing your idea, or post some code here, and if I agree, I'll follow your lead.

    There are flashback dates on "The Secret of the Forger's List" and "Wednesday Morning, 5AM", so there's a starting point...
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #589 by Sir Lee
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  • Regarding the recreation of deleted pages: AFAIK, unless the admin has blocked editing on that page, nothing special will happen -- the page will be created normally.

    On blank timeline pages: for the main timelines, I don't see any major problem with creating such a page. It is mostly a placeholder, yes, but it will also make it easier to browse a period day-by-day. They probably should be tagged with the "stub" template, however. A line to the tune of "This page intentionally left blank" or "The characters were going around in their day-to-day lives when suddenly, nothing important happened" might make things less confusing for the visitor.

    To play Devil's Advocate... an alternative way to check the timeline day-by-day would be to check the monthly index and opening the pages in another browser tab (easy on a PC, not so convenient on a phone/tablet). If the blank pages don't exist, the visitor can just skip over the redlinked pages.

    So... creating stub pages is very helpful in one way to navigate, slightly annoying in the other way to navigate. I would suggest not creating long stretches of blank pages. How long is "too long?" Use your own judgment. One or two is fine, twenty is definitely out. Context matters. A month that has just a few pages should not be "filled up" with blank pages; but another one that is almost complete except for a five-day stretch might be worth filling up with stubs.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #590 by Malady
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  • 5 years 6 months ago #591 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • I've noticed that there seem to be month pages that aren't linked from the main timeline page.

    Also, the main timeline page is getting ugly. Suggestions for making it prettier and easer to read would be welcome. Maybe like the table in front of the sortable story tables?
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #592 by Malady
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  • Okay, so, IMaddMan, is a sorta new editor, who made a few pages, that don't follow our typical format much.

    I don't thinking they're a member of the forums, 'cause I can't find a Member by that name...

    I'm feeling tired, so just gonna say:

    * "Bronze Lady" needs a lot of cleanup / linking, and categories.
    * "Active Track Training" needs categories, and cross-linking with other articles.
    * "Dead Oak Hot Tub Grotto" is lacking in links going to and from.
    * "Sphere" is missing sections,
    * Chibi Evil needs sections too?

    We / I should probably make their Talk Page, and show them the Sample Pages, or something? TTYL.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
    5 years 6 months ago #593 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Malady wrote: Okay, so, IMaddMan, is a sorta new editor, who made a few pages, that don't follow our typical format much.

    I don't thinking they're a member of the forums, 'cause I can't find a Member by that name...

    I'm feeling tired, so just gonna say:

    * "Bronze Lady" needs a lot of cleanup / linking, and categories.
    * "Active Track Training" needs categories, and cross-linking with other articles.
    * "Dead Oak Hot Tub Grotto" is lacking in links going to and from.
    * "Sphere" is missing sections,
    * Chibi Evil needs sections too?

    We / I should probably make their Talk Page, and show them the Sample Pages, or something? TTYL.


    "Chibi Evil" should not be a page. She's Eldrich's sister and a well-known member of Team Awesome.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #594 by Sir Lee
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  • Yeah, IMaddMan does not strike me as someone experienced in wiki editing... but still, as I keep saying, they are still helping. Research is a lot of the work -- anything IMaddMan has researched is one less thing we have to dig through the stories. I'll have a look at their contributions... they have added a few things in the past (in August and again in October).

    And the page is actually named "Miranda Nichole Mahren", not "Chibi Evil." Malady was just going for humorous.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #595 by Malady
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  • "Winifred von Abendritter" as a redirect to "Eisenmädel I"? Even though it's only use is in "The Big Apple comes with Calamari"?
    5 years 6 months ago #596 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: "Winifred von Abendritter" as a redirect to "Eisenmädel I"? Even though it's only use is in "The Big Apple comes with Calamari"?


    Winifred von Abendritter née Manning was the first Eisenmädel (or Eisenmädel I to Erica's Eisenmädel II), per "Eisenmädel 1: Summer of My German Heritage"

    "Vater wished for me to be the best of the best, but he had no idea how to train a woman in the ways of the schattenkriege. He kept extensive records, however. Every time he fought, he had pictures and video footage, debriefing reports and first-hand accounts, all to reconstruct just how he'd lost." The woman fixed his wife with an electric stare. "And of them all, his greatest collection was of you, Winifred Manning, the famed Eisenmädel."

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    5 years 6 months ago #597 by Sir Lee
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  • Hmmm... in the past, we tended to make the character pages under the name they are most likely to appear in the stories, that is, their "current" names. Thus, Elizabeth Carson and not Lady Astarte, and such.

    In this case, I would suggest doing the following:
    1. Creating her page as "Winifred von Abendritter"
    2. Adding a hatnote to "Eisenmädel" explaining that the page is about the second Eisenmädel, the one active starting 2016. For the origina Eisenmädel, see...
    3. (Possibly, but not really necessarily): create a redirect from "Eisenmadel I" to "Winifred" and from "Eisenmadel II" to "Eisenmadel"

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #598 by Malady
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  • 5 years 6 months ago #599 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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  • Malady wrote: On mobile, so I can't edit.

    Apparently "?" is a wanted page... Is that a mistake?

    crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/%3F


    Oops.

    I was using that because I didn't remember the actual code name for someone, and then never got back to do the research and fix it.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #600 by Malady
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  • ^ - Still one Link to "?" from Absinthe 2...

    ----

    So, "Team Awesome" or "Team Awesome!"?

    The former has 4 links, the latter has 3.

    ----

    So, I guess you guys are happy about my gap pages:

    * 1975-12-18
    * 1975-12-19

    Gonna make a page for " 1995-03 " as my idea on what flashback-only months could be like.

    Oh... " 1975-12 " is a thing... Hmm... Still gonna make my version in 1995-03, and then you can decide which is better.

    Capping off the ends of date sequences like in 1975 and 1995 isn't a priority, though...

    And dunno what to put in "See Also", either. TTYL!
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Malady.
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