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6 years 1 month ago #1001 by null0trooper

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There is a bit of difficulty reconciling "Colorado: March 2, 2006" with "The lowering, red, Fall sun slanted into the small bus station"

"Enter The Chaka" starts Thursday, Aug 31, 2006. Baltimore to Boston is a 7 hr trip, the train leaves at 11AM in the story, so the only way everyone meets in Dunwich at 3:15 PM is if Toni gets into Boston spends the night and takes the train north on Friday, Sept. 1, 2006.

"Away From Home": It looks like Jade rolls her would-be mugger early Friday morning, arriving in Dunwich in the afternoon. However, chapter 6 jumps the afteroon action forward to Sunday, Sept. 3, 2006

"Ayla and the Late Trevor Goodkind" sets "Special Orientation" on Sun. Sept. 3, 2006

So.... it was Tennyo at the Dunwich bus station on Sept. 3^rd instead of March 2^nd?

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6 years 1 month ago #1002 by Malady

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So, we gonna change Unfortunate Consequences?

----

Gen2 Melville's House Mother, "Concierge", a.k.a Mrs. ? Bellamy. What do we call her page? 'Cause she's listed, but isn't linked from "I Don't Think We're in Kansas Anymore".

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6 years 1 month ago #1003 by Sir Lee

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No, but I did make some changes to "Unexpected Consequences" to address the dating issue.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1004 by Malady

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Sir Lee wrote: No, but I did make some changes to "Unexpected Consequences" to address the dating issue.

Thanks!

... Oh, there's also "Dated Stories - AY 2006-07"... Removed that link, but I think it could've been neater...

----

Should turn June 2006 into a Calendar since Charge 1 fills it, basically. Gotta go eat. TTYL.

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Malady.

6 years 1 month ago #1005 by Sir Lee

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Had a look at it. The story actually begins on July 4th, so I changed the link accordingly. Also, went back and did a second, more careful pass on "Unexpected Consequences." Turns out that Stardraigh had already added a note regarding the confusing timestamp back in 2017 and we didn't even notice it. I reworked the note, moving the entire discussion there in order to clean up the opening paragraph, but put a link on top to call attention to it.

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6 years 1 month ago #1006 by Malady

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I'm thinking about spreading our holiday marking to at least the main years of TimelineX, like "Third Monday of Feburary" = Presidents Day, like "2008-02-18".

As a reason to remove certain months from Wanted Pages.

No objections, I think? TTYL.

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6 years 1 month ago #1007 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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All: I've been thinking off and on about ElrodW's (and other authors') comments that the Wiki is an invaluable resource for them. What I've been trying to balance is the distinction between a fan's view of an incident, and what an author might need to know. What I'm thinking of is moving what I think of as "author info" to the talk page for the timeline, and leave a red number as a clue.

For example, there's an arc where Nimbus is working on capturing Avatar's spirits. In the story I'm working on, Lifeline is working to free Loophole from her spirit, completely unaware that she's part of Nimbus' plot. I don't think that mentioning Nimbus' plot in the main line is appropriate, but I think it needs to be mentioned somewhere, so putting it on the Talk page seems like a decent hack.

Does this make sense? Will this be useful? Comments?

6 years 1 month ago #1008 by null0trooper

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The text of more than one story indicates that she's unaware of Nimbus' role in helping her find the alchemical formula she used. But he does have one. That's a fact that impacts the story.

No one knows what her role in his plans is, nor exactly why she has a role. So that need not be discussed in the wiki page for the story.

The catch is that whatever Nimbus/HM is doing, it's a major plotline running throughout many stories. It's not in the readers' best interest to hide something that comes up in the story, when many of them would already know of it.

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6 years 1 month ago #1009 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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null0trooper wrote: The text of more than one story indicates that she's unaware of Nimbus' role in helping her find the alchemical formula she used. But he does have one. That's a fact that impacts the story.

No one knows what her role in his plans is, nor exactly why she has a role. So that need not be discussed in the wiki page for the story.

The catch is that whatever Nimbus/HM is doing, it's a major plotline running throughout many stories. It's not in the readers' best interest to hide something that comes up in the story, when many of them would already know of it.

I see your point. However, the concern I had was more how to tie some of this together for the authors, and that's only one of many threads that need tracking down.

By the way - her role culminates in All Hallows Ball. We don't yet know what happens after that, although his soul cache does turn up in a Gen2 story. Nimbus, however, may be dead by then. Although from what Coyote said, maybe not.

Pulling the entire arc together probably needs to be done in one place, with links to the specific scenes where there is activity.

6 years 1 month ago #1010 by elrodw

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The one thing that MIGHT be done is to make a way to link together all of the Nimbus plot elements strewn about the stories.

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6 years 1 month ago #1011 by null0trooper

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: By the way - her role culminates in All Hallows Ball. We don't yet know what happens after that, although his soul cache does turn up in a Gen2 story.

In which case, we do not know whose roles are truly over, and whose are still just beginning.

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Nimbus, however, may be dead by then. Although from what Coyote said, maybe not.

Coyote has not spoken about Nimbus in a Gen2 story. He doesn't even show up in Gen2. Astra is one of his medicine people. Ed / Legion is one of his paladins.

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Pulling the entire arc together probably needs to be done in one place, with links to the specific scenes where there is activity.

Deep-linking into the manuscripts is not a good idea, because those links can change and I don't think the stories are internally anchored like that. It should be sufficient to list the stories in which a character does something, as opposed to just being talked about.

For example, Hekate's Master does have a page in the wiki for the things he has been shown to have done.

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6 years 1 month ago #1012 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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null0trooper wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Pulling the entire arc together probably needs to be done in one place, with links to the specific scenes where there is activity.

Deep-linking into the manuscripts is not a good idea, because those links can change and I don't think the stories are internally anchored like that. It should be sufficient to list the stories in which a character does something, as opposed to just being talked about.

For example, Hekate's Master does have a page in the wiki for the things he has been shown to have done.

Deep link into the stories? The Horror! The Horror!

The way I do story summaries is scene by scene, so what I was thinking of is to put a "NOTE 1" tag there and a Notes section where I'd expand on it. That would be in the story summary and timeline. Doing it that way makes it easily available to the people who want to see it, and keeps it out of the way of people who don't. It would also collect "sensitive" information for a story in one place - some of those summaries are quite long with interesting stuff buried in a lot of noise.

Then the character pages just have to refer to the story and the note to find the scene,

6 years 1 month ago #1013 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I've put an example of what I'm thinking of in the 2007-10-29 timeline entry. It could obviously be improved by adding references, but this is the basic idea. I chose green instead of red to avoid some poor soul clicking on it, finding it doesn't work, and filing a trouble report with Kristen.

Like it? Dislike it? Have suggestions? Running for the exit holding your nose?

6 years 1 month ago #1014 by null0trooper

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Red/green color-blindess and general usability is one of the reasons that it's recommended to always leave links the default blue(unvisited) / purple(visited).

"At this time", and similar phrases are a problem because text is always in the reader's "now" unless otherwise specified.

How about something more TV Tropes-ish?

<sup>''(See below, Notes)''</sup>

==Notes==
This section may include spoilers for related stories.
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
1. This scene is out of order. By this date, The Kodiak has cured Greasy's affliction, Greasy has left Peeper, the "Peeper and Greasy Show" has been replaced by "The Dragon's Den" and Peeper is trying to reform himself.
</div>

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6 years 1 month ago #1015 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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null0trooper wrote: Red/green color-blindess and general usability is one of the reasons that it's recommended to always leave links the default blue(unvisited) / purple(visited).

I can't tell the difference between blue and purple. The only way I can find links is to wave the cursor around until it changes as if I was playing an old-fashioned game where you had to do that to find what you could click on. That piece of usability advice is, as far as I'm concerned, unusability advice.

In any case, it's not a link. I made it stand out because I wanted it to stand out, not be barely peaking out as if wants to hide.

null0trooper wrote: "At this time", and similar phrases are a problem because text is always in the reader's "now" unless otherwise specified.

How about something more TV Tropes-ish?

<sup>''(See below, Notes)''</sup>

==Notes==
This section may include spoilers for related stories.
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
1. This scene is out of order. By this date, The Kodiak has cured Greasy's affliction, Greasy has left Peeper, the "Peeper and Greasy Show" has been replaced by "The Dragon's Den" and Peeper is trying to reform himself.
</div>

Having a header on the section is a good idea, but I don't think spoilers are the issue. How about: "This section contains notes about the story rather than pieces of the story itself. Some of the notes are to help authors. IOW, it's saying that there's something about these passages that you may need to understand if you're using it as the basis for a story."

6 years 1 month ago #1016 by elrodw

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Would it be useful to have categories or tags for "Hekate's Master plot-elements" or "Nimbus plot-elements"? If those were on the date pages, then someone could look for that and get a list of all the dates that have such elements (and they could scan chronologically).

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6 years 1 month ago #1017 by Sir Lee

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Possibly, that's one way to do it. Tags/categories are quite cheap, both performance-wise and in terms of how much work that would involve. We could postulate tags for several major arcs.

Another possible way is to do a very detailed "appearances" section in Hekate's and Nimbus' pages (for instance), but that would involve a lot more work and it is more likely to get outdated, unless someone steps up to be the maintainer for each of those pages and keeps track of it -- which I don't think is very likely to happen.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago #1018 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Sir Lee wrote: Possibly, that's one way to do it. Tags/categories are quite cheap, both performance-wise and in terms of how much work that would involve. We could postulate tags for several major arcs.

Another possible way is to do a very detailed "appearances" section in Hekate's and Nimbus' pages (for instance), but that would involve a lot more work and it is more likely to get outdated, unless someone steps up to be the maintainer for each of those pages and keeps track of it -- which I don't think is very likely to happen.

I was thinking of the detailed list in the character pages, but you're right, categories would be a lot easier to maintain. Possibly say something about that in the policy pages so it doesn't get lost?

6 years 1 month ago #1019 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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On a different issue - there are two different Turner families. One involves Jericho, the other involves Robert, Tabitha and Lily (Falcon, Tabby Cat and Wallflower). The first exists, and I want to create the second. How do we handle this?

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1020 by Sir Lee

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Turner Family (Texas) and Turner Family (Rhode Island), possibly? (I might be mistaken on the states...)
That would involve some preparatory work (which could mostly be done via bot) to relink the existing Turner family links.

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 1 month ago #1021 by E. E. Nalley

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Well, you could use:

Turner Family (Texas)
Turner Family (Rhode Island)

Or

Turner Family
Turner Family (STAR League)

Or just a straight The Other Wiki disambiguation page.

Or this header at the top of the page...

This page is about the family of super heroes from Rhode Island. If you are looking for the family of Jericho click here.

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6 years 1 month ago #1022 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I think I'll go with the first option, if Sir Lee is willing to do the bot work to redo the existing links. It looks like there are only 9 references, three of which are redirects, so it would be easy enough for me to do by hand.

Renaming "Turner family" to "Turner family (Texas)" will leave a redirect behind. That will result in three double redirects, which I think are illegal. IIRC, the Wiki engine stops on the second redirect in a chain.

It'll be a bit before I get to it. Late tonight, early tomorrow probably. Maybe later.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1023 by Sir Lee

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Double redirects aren't "illegal" but they are discouraged. I'm not sure how many the MediaWiki engine will follow before stopping; two would be a good rule of thumb, however, because it implicitly forbids redirect loops.

I'll work on the 'bot thing. Afterwards, we can turn the redirect into a disambiguation page.

(EDIT) Ok, it's done. And it turns out that apparently, the MediaWiki engine will stop on the first redirect if the page it points to is also a redirect. So, double redirects are not illegal per se (you can still follow them manually) but they are deliberately sort of broken.

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 1 month ago #1024 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Whew! Keeping Cool was a mess - a lot of new characters, including two new superhero teams and a new godlet (apparently Japanese). All the updates took almost as long as the story itself.

Sir Lee: Thanks for the help on the Turner family (Rhode Island).

Question: do we have a top level category page? If not, should we have one? Or at least some documentation about what the top level roots are and how various hierarchies should be structured?

6 years 1 month ago #1025 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I think there are five stories left before I've got everything in Year 2 - that is, Sept 2007 and later. I'm excluding stories that are out of the Whateley Academy continuity for the moment. I think the only story the exclusion affects is "Vegas, Baby, Vegas".

That leaves the last three Lancer stories, Seeking Depth Is Best and There's No Place Like Poe. If I've missed any, please let me know.

Gen 2 also has several stories missing: the Dorms stories. I'm not sure if "The Final Trump" is a Gen 2 origin story or not, but if it is it'll be done after I've got Year 2 done.

6 years 1 month ago #1026 by Sir Lee

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I don't remember if we have an overall top category, but we do have a few that are pretty broad and act as roots of large category trees. Things like "People", "The Academy", "The World"... basically, you start from some category and start navigating upwards until you hit one of about half a dozen "root" categories.

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6 years 1 month ago #1027 by null0trooper

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Whew! Keeping Cool was a mess - a lot of new characters, including two new superhero teams and a new godlet (apparently Japanese).

Japanese? Not Billikin , I hope.

Today, the Billiken is the official mascot of Saint Louis University and St. Louis University High School, both Jesuit institutions located in St. Louis. The Billiken is also the official mascot of the Royal Order of Jesters,[4] an invitation only Shriner group, affiliated with Freemasonry. The Billiken also became the namesake of Billiken Shokai, the Japanese toy & model manufacturing company (established 1976).

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6 years 1 month ago #1028 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Sir Lee wrote: I don't remember if we have an overall top category, but we do have a few that are pretty broad and act as roots of large category trees. Things like "People", "The Academy", "The World"... basically, you start from some category and start navigating upwards until you hit one of about half a dozen "root" categories.

The top category is named "Browse". That seems to be original information from Wikia. It's got five subcategories. "Content" is for content, "Organization" is for Wiki stuff.

Content has six sub-categories: Article Stubs, Concepts, Events, People, Terminology and The Universe.

The Academy is a sub-category of The Universe (and also of New Hampshire).

A fair amount of this seems to be stuff Wikia seeded as initial content.

6 years 1 month ago #1029 by DanZilla

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Gen 2 also has several stories missing: the Dorms stories. I'm not sure if "The Final Trump" is a Gen 2 origin story or not, but if it is it'll be done after I've got Year 2 done.

The Final Trump is Year 2 but the characters haven't appeared in year 2 stories... yet. As far as I remember.

6 years 1 month ago #1030 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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DanZilla wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Gen 2 also has several stories missing: the Dorms stories. I'm not sure if "The Final Trump" is a Gen 2 origin story or not, but if it is it'll be done after I've got Year 2 done.

The Final Trump is Year 2 but the characters haven't appeared in year 2 stories... yet. As far as I remember.

'

After checking, Jessie Harrow, aka Scapegrace, has appeared in three Year 2 stories: Ribbon, To the New Year and Tales of Summer. In Tales of Summer she's a central character, in the other two it's basically a mention.

6 years 1 month ago #1031 by DanZilla

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
DanZilla wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Gen 2 also has several stories missing: the Dorms stories. I'm not sure if "The Final Trump" is a Gen 2 origin story or not, but if it is it'll be done after I've got Year 2 done.

The Final Trump is Year 2 but the characters haven't appeared in year 2 stories... yet. As far as I remember.
'

After checking, Jessie Harrow, aka Scapegrace, has appeared in three Year 2 stories: Ribbon, To the New Year and Tales of Summer. In Tales of Summer she's a central character, in the other two it's basically a mention.

Thanks for checking on that... it's been a while.

6 years 1 month ago #1032 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I note that there's a bit of confusion on the way I do the Characters section on a story page. Briefly, it's in order of first appearance.

Except

If a character is a member of a family, team or whatever, I put the entire family or team at that point, even if the other members appear a lot later in the story. In Keeping Cool, there are four families and teams. Gateway Guardians (2016) all appeared in the same place, but the same is not true of Gateway Guardians (1960), the Washington family or the Radford family.

These seem to be incompatible goals. Any comments? Suggestions?

6 years 1 month ago #1033 by null0trooper

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For someone just trying to find out if character X appears ("Is this a Jade story?"), alphabetical is favored over order of appearance: if they already knew when in the story to look they wouldn't be looking it up.

But that's not as important as grouping the teams and families together.

Most important is having them listed in the first place, whether they did something or were mentioned.

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6 years 1 month ago #1034 by Malady

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@Null - "Jack (Mimeo)" is an Emerson student? Wasn't he an adult, when he and Mimeo fought when Mimeo was a teenager?

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6 years 1 month ago #1035 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: @Null - "Jack (Mimeo)" is an Emerson student? Wasn't he an adult, when he and Mimeo fought when Mimeo was a teenager?

My mistake - misreading which character I was looking at. I'll revert it.

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1036 by Katssun

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I added the Gen 2 Whitman students introduced in Myriad Meetings to the Sortable Students list.

The story is a very good source of names.

edit: I wasn't sure if it was safe to assume the non-RA students were all Freshman (Shisa isn't, right?) so I only put a Class date in for the ones confirmed in the story.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Katssun.

6 years 1 month ago #1037 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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There may be a bit of confusion. There's a disambiguation entry for Ping Pong that says the student is named Kelly Mishkin. However the only entry on the wiki for Kelly Mishkin is in Glimpses of the Sun, and there's no suggestion of a code name. The only detail is he's capable of refereeing a martial arts match and is an RA in Melville. He (or she) is Mage Ohki's character.

On the other hand, Dorms 4, Part 5 has Ping as Leslie Wainwright, the main character of Ping Out, and describes her exactly. Dorms 4, Part 6, says they're looking for Ping Pong in Melville, but without other details than that she's a changeling. She's Wasamon's character.

Do we have a problem with duplicated code names here?

6 years 1 month ago #1038 by Malady

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: There may be a bit of confusion. There's a disambiguation entry for Ping Pong that says the student is named Kelly Mishkin. However the only entry on the wiki for Kelly Mishkin is in Glimpses of the Sun, and there's no suggestion of a code name. The only detail is he's capable of refereeing a martial arts match and is an RA in Melville. He (or she) is Mage Ohki's character.

On the other hand, Dorms 4, Part 5 has Ping as Leslie Wainwright, the main character of Ping Out, and describes her exactly. Dorms 4, Part 6, says they're looking for Ping Pong in Melville, but without other details than that she's a changeling. She's Wasamon's character.

Do we have a problem with duplicated code names here?

No, we don't. One of the authors confirmed Ping-Pong / Ping Pong as Kelly Mishkin. I'm holding off from making the page out of laziness / something, and wanting a nice in-story reference, 'cause personal preference.

Elrod: whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/the-...wiki?start=910#62009

In Gen 2, we have Ping-Pong, who is a student who's a bistable shapeshifter - he alternates between male and female states, and his libido has something to do with triggering the shift (I'm the one who defined him, so I should know). We also have Ping, about whom I know a lot less.

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6 years 1 month ago #1039 by DanZilla

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Yep, we've got both a Ping-Pong and a Ping... we realized that there might be some confusion a while back but decided to run with it since, barring instances like we've run into here, the two shouldn't be in close enough proximity to cause issues.

Of course, having said this... *sigh* It'll likely keep happening.

6 years 1 month ago #1040 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: There may be a bit of confusion. There's a disambiguation entry for Ping Pong that says the student is named Kelly Mishkin. However the only entry on the wiki for Kelly Mishkin is in Glimpses of the Sun, and there's no suggestion of a code name. The only detail is he's capable of refereeing a martial arts match and is an RA in Melville. He (or she) is Mage Ohki's character.

On the other hand, Dorms 4, Part 5 has Ping as Leslie Wainwright, the main character of Ping Out, and describes her exactly. Dorms 4, Part 6, says they're looking for Ping Pong in Melville, but without other details than that she's a changeling. She's Wasamon's character.

Do we have a problem with duplicated code names here?

No, we don't. One of the authors confirmed Ping-Pong / Ping Pong as Kelly Mishkin. I'm holding off from making the page out of laziness / something, and wanting a nice in-story reference, 'cause personal preference.

Ping Pong/Kelly Mishkin

I Don't Think We're In Kansas Anymore, Part 3:

"So, Kelly was it? Could you please introduce yourself? I'm Tia Del Bosque."
"I'm Kelly Mishkin. Pleased to meet you." She didn't sound pleased. She sounded like she'd rather be anywhere else.
"Pleased to meet you, Kelly. Can you answer a question for me? I heard something that got me curious."
Kelly glanced at Tia's ears as her eyes widened. She tried to tug her hand free, and Tiff just looked at her. Why did Kelly seem afraid of her - which was stupid.
"I'm not trying to pry, but how does a girl get the boy's RA position?"
Kelly muttered it, but this close it was as loud as a shout to Tia since she didn't have her ear clips in. "I'm not a girl." Kelly sighed, shaking her head. "At least, not my permanent form."
Tia thought she certainly looked like one.
Tiff poked Kelly in the side and rolled her eyes when the girl who claimed she wasn't stayed silent. "What Kelly here is trying to say is that she's a shifter. A bistable shifter, to be precise, with two stable forms - one female, and one male."
Kelly scowled at Tiff; there was more that wasn't being said, and Kelly interrupted Tiff, probably to make sure it wasn't said. "I flip back and forth between forms - and genders - based on who is near me at the time, and I don't have a lot of control over it; I can't change more than once every twenty to twenty-two hours." She shrugged. "This morning, I bumped into a girl in the hall."
"It triggers when Kelly gets ... excited," Tiff interjected with a grin.

I Don't Think We're In Kansas Anymore, Part 4:

"Mornin', Kelly," a voice called from above.
Kelly Mishkin, walking on the empty sidewalk, was startled at the noise; he spun at the sound of his name, hands coming up as his stance changed to a ready position because of the unexpected interruption. Puzzled, he looked up as it sank into his brain that the noise had come from over his head.
...
Kelly nodded. "Nah. I started the day in that other body, and when I went down for coffee, I bumped into some British guy who started leering at me, and, well, I get to be male today." He chuckled. "Scared the shit out of him! It'll probably put him off hitting up girls for a while! So what's new?"

I Don't Think We're In Kansas Anymore, Part 5:

The others were girls, and not unattractive ones at that. Laura caught herself staring at one of the girls, a very attractive brunette, and if the lines of the gi were anything to judge by, probably quite shapely, but something seemed out of place a bit. She was staring at Taka, but the look in her eye wasn't the adoring, lustful gazes that the Venus Inc. girls had displayed as they fairly swooned over Taka; instead, her eye was sharp, focused, and critical, as if she was sizing up the Japanese boy.
"Hi, I'm Kelly Mishkin," the brunette girl introduced herself, then turned directly to Taka, "You've attracted a lot of attention with your morning workouts. And with that little sparring match this morning, I take it you know some martial arts?"

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1041 by Malady

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null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: There may be a bit of confusion. There's a disambiguation entry for Ping Pong that says the student is named Kelly Mishkin.

[...]

On the other hand, Dorms 4, Part 5 has Ping as Leslie Wainwright, the main character of Ping Out, and describes her exactly. Dorms 4, Part 6, says they're looking for Ping Pong in Melville, but without other details than that she's a changeling. She's Wasamon's character.

Do we have a problem with duplicated code names here?

No, we don't. One of the authors confirmed Ping-Pong / Ping Pong as Kelly Mishkin. I'm holding off from making the page out of laziness / something, and wanting a nice in-story reference, 'cause personal preference.

[In-story quotes]

... *twitch*

Gah, Okay, I'll throw up a nice referenced stub, once I find a WOG to template from. Found it... Okay... Making the page... Done!

----

Bot: "Kelly Mishkin" to "Ping Pong (student)"?

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6 years 1 month ago #1042 by null0trooper

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Warning: The database has been locked for maintenance, so you will not be able to save your edits right now.

The administrator who locked it offered this explanation: Uh-oh! Our main datacenter is currently unavailable, so this is our backup. Unfortunately, this means you may not be able to do certain things like edit, upload, or chat. We are working to fix the problem, thank you for your patience! If you see this for an extended period of time, feel free to contact FANDOM at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

Well. That was an hour or so of edits I won't be getting back.

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6 years 1 month ago #1043 by Sir Lee

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Yeah, that's really annoying... as are other kinds of unforeseen interruptions, such as your Internet going down, or your browser crashing, or your computer bluescreening...

One way to deal with it is the traditional one: save your edits periodically. But you might not want to "spam" the edit log with ten intermediate steps. Nothing really wrong with it, actually, but for some reason most people (I'm one of them, and I can't explain it either) prefer to have a single edit.
Another is to prepare your edits in a local document in your computer -- that offers a few other benefits, such as better editing tools (but you lose autocomplete for links). It works well for people like me who prefer editing the source code; it might not work as well for people who favor the WYSIWYG editor.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago #1044 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I'm one of the people who do all the major work on my home system, and simply copy and paste them to the Wiki. I've never encountered a Wiki crash, and my home system (Mac OS) doesn't tend to crash, but it's really good for my highly intermittent work habits.

6 years 1 month ago #1045 by Malady

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Well, now we have "Aaln The Terrible", and "Aaln the Terrible", differing by capitalization of "The"...

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6 years 1 month ago #1046 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: Well, now we have "Aaln The Terrible", and "Aaln the Terrible", differing by capitalization of "The"...

Well, they did say they were Terrible.

Spelling included?

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6 years 1 month ago #1047 by Malady

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null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: Well, now we have "Aaln The Terrible", and "Aaln the Terrible", differing by capitalization of "The"...

Well, they did say they were Terrible.

Spelling included?

What's that question mean?

The Real MCO , and its Wiki page says "Aaln The Terrible", but all other pages used "the".

So, I made the "The" to fix that redlink, but didn't know that "the" existed.

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6 years 1 month ago #1048 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: Well, now we have "Aaln The Terrible", and "Aaln the Terrible", differing by capitalization of "The"...

Well, they did say they were Terrible.

Spelling included?

What's that question mean?

The Real MCO , and its Wiki page says "Aaln The Terrible", but all other pages used "the".

So, I made the "The" to fix that redlink, but didn't know that "the" existed.

If we've got two spellings (capitalizations, really), maybe Aaln was Terrible at that too!

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6 years 1 month ago #1049 by Sir Lee

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Yeah... from what I understand of English grammar, the "the" should be lowercase. But English rules are way looser than other languages, so it's probably acceptable if the guy has a large enough ego to thing even the "the" requires capitalization (and somebody who calls himself "the Terrible" does sound like an ego-inflated person). Maybe he even had it spelled that way in his MID.

So... since there's just the one canon reference, and it has the capitalized "The", I guess that should be the page title. Keep the more grammatically-correct version as a redirect, though.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1050 by Malady

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Anyone know when Generator's birthday is?

'Cause we can get another two dates in, if we know that:

Jade 5 :

For some reason, she thought of her last birthday. Back when she’d been a boy. Back when her father’s only present was another set of free weights and two used wrestling magazines.

----

Jade 1 :

He felt the boxing gloves his father had given him four years ago, for his tenth birthday (“So you can learn to fight like a real man”).

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6 years 1 month ago #1051 by Sir Lee

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No, but I would assume that it's *not* anywhere between September and April. Reasons? Two parts:
- For the earlier part (September-December) we have a lot of coverage from Jade's PoV, and she never mentions a birthday.
- For the rest, we have a lot of Kimba coverage from Ayla's PoV. If there was an excuse for Ayla to give stuff to Jade in this period, he would have taken it big time.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago #1052 by Malady

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How do we request a delete?

Asking for "2006-02-03", since that was made with the wrong year. I moved.

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6 years 1 month ago #1053 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: How do we request a delete?

Asking for "2006-02-03", since that was made with the wrong year. I moved.

In this case I'd say don't bother. Just make it a filler page.

6 years 1 month ago #1054 by Sir Lee

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Well, you can tag it with {{delete}}, but to be sure I don't often search for pages tagged for deletion, so it may take a while. Fastest way is to post a request here.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago #1055 by Malady

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Thanks!

Delete "1989-12-10" too, then, since there's no info for it.

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6 years 1 month ago #1056 by Sir Lee

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Hey, Xalt, I noticed that you have a few hatnotes that you repeat a lot -- like the one in "small" month pages saying "consider turning this into a calendar if such-and-such conditions..."
Would you like having a template for that? It's quite easy to do, just give me the text and any particular decorations you would like (italics, background color and such), plus a suitable template name you wouldn't have trouble remembering (such as {{considercalendar}} ) and I can whip it up.
It not only would save on typing, but also standardize looks and make for easy updates to the text -- just edit the template...

Any other use-cases for templates you or anybody else can name? Malady? Null0? Anybody? Bueller?

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1057 by Malady

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Maybe one for filler dates?

Just take the text from any such page?

But, Xalt seemed like he already started one, but I just don't use it?

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1058 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Actually, I've got a scratch page that I've got all the pieces of timeline pages, so it's easy for me to fill in the blanks, copy and paste.

Hm. Use templates to build the repetitive parts of timeline pages. These things are kind of like a sandwich: a top, a bottom and filler in between.

On a month page, there are four pieces of boilerplate:

The header:

"This page links to daily timeline pages for |month, year|"

On list format pages:

"There are very few days in this month where anything happened in stories that have been processed. Replace this with a calendar format page when the number of new red-links that would be created by the replacement drops below 5 or so."

On filler pages:

"This is a filler page to avoid an entry on the wanted pages list. Nothing of interest happened this month in stories that have been processed, but who knows what might be in stories that have not been processed for the wiki, or have not even been written yet."

These three could be a separate template for each piece, or a single template for each kind of page since they cascade nicely.

And finally, at the bottom:

The "see also" block, which has three dates and a month name. These could probably be computed from one entry if templates were a real macro language, but so far my investigation of templates shows no sign of that.

On daily pages, there are three pieces of boilerplate:

"This is what happened on Thursday, February 4, 2016 in stories that can be dated.

==Events==
"
For filler pages:

"
This is a filler page that’s here to avoid sticking dates into the Wanted Pages list.

==Events==

Nothing happened on this day in stories that have been processed. However, we haven’t processed everything, so it’s possible that there may eventually be stuff on this page.

"

And at the end:

"==See also==
*June Calendar
*Previous day
*Following day

==References==
{{reflist}}

"

The problem with this one is that we have a habit of invalidating one or both dates to avoid putting dates into the wanted pages list. That's also a problem with the end template on the month page as well.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: Minor

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1059 by Malady

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So, if the new limit is 5 redlinks, de-calendarize "2016-08"?

----

Does the bot not work? I thought we solved it?

"Avsel Goran" to "Karkadann", 'cause Word of Wasamon .

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6 years 1 month ago #1060 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: So, if the new limit is 5 redlinks, de-calendarize "2016-08"?

I wouldn't bother. It's too much work for too little benefit.

What usually happens is that a month gets changed to calendar format when a new story hits a month and adds a lot of pages. It's seldom one or two, although that can be fixed with filler pages.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1061 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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We now have two "Blue Blaze"s. The one that's already on the wiki redirects to Champion III, and the new one is in "Ratel and Hum". What to do? Make a disambiguation page? Call the new one "Blue Blaze (Gen 2)"?

Edit: I think I'm going to go with "Blue Blaze (Terre Haute) unless there are problems with that.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by XaltatunOfAcheron.

6 years 1 month ago #1062 by Sir Lee

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Actually, the current "Blue Blaze" page is an unused redirect that was put there just for future-proofing, but nobody ever actually pointed a link to it.

You might just convert it into a regular page for the Terre Haute character, and include a hatnote saying "This page is about the superhero based in Terre Haute. For the person who used "Blue Blaze" as a codename while a student in Whateley, see Champion III"

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1063 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Sir Lee wrote: Actually, the current "Blue Blaze" page is an unused redirect that was put there just for future-proofing, but nobody ever actually pointed a link to it.

You might just convert it into a regular page for the Terre Haute character, and include a hatnote saying "This page is about the superhero based in Terre Haute. For the person who used "Blue Blaze" as a codename while a student in Whateley, see Champion III"

OK. I'll do that tomorrow - it's getting late it's time to hit the sack.

Edit: Done. Turns out it was a redirect to a redirect, so it didn't work in the first place.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: Done.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1064 by Malady

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I wonder if there's a template to figure out the weekday of a day, instead of me having to look it up myself...

----

Also, Template:None selected appears to be for images we don't know the copyright of, given how its pages differ from other images, like Clover's ... How should we fix that?

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6 years 1 month ago #1065 by Sir Lee

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A template? Hmmm. It would probably require using Javascript or something to access a date library (on of the classical blunders of inexperienced programmers is to attempt to write one's own date-handling function, instead of using a well-tested library). I don't think it would be feasible using just the regular MediaWiki syntax, but there might be either a built-in feature in MediaWiki or some sort of plug-in. Of course, it also depends on whether the Fandom people decided to make such a feature available in the first place...

(After Googling a bit): This page seems to suggest that it might be possible, but I'm not a good enough programmer to delve into it.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1066 by Malady

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Got it!

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguag...arserFunctions##time

{{#time: l, F d, Y|2000-12-20}}.

Wednesday, December 20, 2000.

----

Also, the Flicker and Fade images seem to have been made by E.E. Nalley, but their ownership note was changed??

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Fade?diff=next&oldid=11872

----

Trazgo's image [ Click to expand ]

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6 years 1 month ago #1067 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: Also, the Flicker and Fade images seem to have been made by E.E. Nalley, but their ownership note was changed??

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Fade?diff=next&oldid=11872

There might be a credit issue depending on Daz3D's licensing terms, and what IP was used to to make the images.

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6 years 1 month ago #1068 by Malady

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In other thoughts, I wonder if an admin making an edit to the "Mediawiki:" Wanted Pages would scrub them from the list...

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6 years 1 month ago #1069 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: Got it!

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguag...arserFunctions##time
{{#time: l, F d, Y|2000-12-20}}.
Wednesday, December 20, 2000.

Thank you, thank you, thank you,

Apropos of that, I wonder if there's a way of feeding the page name into the time function.

And - how do you get to a help page from the search bar? I've tried every way I can think of, and no joy.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1070 by Malady

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
Malady wrote: Got it!

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguag...arserFunctions##time
{{#time: l, F d, Y|2000-12-20}}.
Wednesday, December 20, 2000.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,

Apropos of that, I wonder if there's a way of feeding the page name into the time function.

And - how do you get to a help page from the search bar? I've tried every way I can think of, and no joy.

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguag...gic_words#Page_names

{{#time: l, F d, Y|{{PAGENAME}}}}

----

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Help

Hmm...

Help:Contents is linked from a few pages, but either those pages could be more prominent, or something:

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Help:Contents

Maybe edit the Table of Contents dropdown or something.

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6 years 1 month ago #1071 by Sir Lee

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Malady wrote: In other thoughts, I wonder if an admin making an edit to the "Mediawiki:" Wanted Pages would scrub them from the list...

I'm unsure of what's the "them" you are referring to here.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago #1072 by Malady

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Sir Lee wrote:
Malady wrote: In other thoughts, I wonder if an admin making an edit to the "Mediawiki:" Wanted Pages would scrub them from the list...

I'm unsure of what's the "them" you are referring to here.

Currently, entries 316 to 320, like "MediaWiki:Welcome-user-page‏‎".

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1073 by Sir Lee

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It's weird, they are crossed out like they were already edited, but they never get removed from the list... I'll try making a minor edit to #318 (Welcome-message-user) to see what happens.

(EDIT) Did id, no immediate changes. Let's see what happens after the list gets re-generated...

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1074 by Malady

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And the list updated, with no "Welcome-message-user" in sight!

----

Bot: Link Moves: "Estelle" to "Hermione"

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1075 by Sir Lee

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Well, I did some minor edits to the other pages in that group, but one of them (MediaWiki:Welcome-message-log‏‎) is still above my user rights.

As for the bot-move request: Uh, why? It's pretty clear in "Like a Candle in the Wind" that Estelle and Hermione are different people.

I was trying to concentrate on my notes and ignore the nasty little comments Hermione and Estelle were making in deliberately audible whispers.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1076 by Malady

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Sir Lee wrote: Well, I did some minor edits to the other pages in that group, but one of them (MediaWiki:Welcome-message-log‏‎) is still above my user rights.

As for the bot-move request: Uh, why? It's pretty clear in "Like a Candle in the Wind" that Estelle and Hermione are different people.
I was trying to concentrate on my notes and ignore the nasty little comments Hermione and Estelle were making in deliberately audible whispers.

Okay... Then either that's wrong, or the "Fall 2016 Student List" is, since that says Estelle's codename is Hermione...

But it seems you're right, since "As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted (Part 1)" also has Hermione and Estelle as separate.

Then again...

----

Glyph 3: Ink in her Veins part 2 :

Melody, Antionette, and Estelle, or as they were also known, Chained Melody, La Mage Blanche, and Hermione

The Writing On the Wall (Part 2)

Antionette and Estelle…or La Mage Blanche and Hermione

----

Also, not sure if it's Blanc, Blanche, or something else, given its the former, in A Dragon Abroad (Part 2) ...

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6 years 1 month ago #1077 by Sir Lee

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I know what's happening, it's so obvious! We have two students: Hermione Farmer (or something), codename Estelle, and Estelle Smith (or something), codename Hermione.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1078 by null0trooper

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Thanks to "Harry Potter and the Endless Wankery" (the 15th book in the WU series) "Hermione" would be an appealing code name to a person who's never had to use the name in real life.

Malady wrote: Also, not sure if it's Blanc, Blanche, or something else, given its the former, in A Dragon Abroad (Part 2) ...

Yes.

French is gendered: blanc (m), blanche (f): La Mage Blanche.

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by null0trooper.

6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1079 by Malady

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In other name related redlinks...

The Gen1 Japanese Cat-girl... "Koizumi Miki", or "Miki Koizumi"? Former is Eastern style.

And I think we know her codename, but I can't find it, so maybe we don't?

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6 years 1 month ago #1080 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: In other name related redlinks...

The Gen1 Japanese Cat-girl... "Koizumi Miki", or "Miki Koizumi"? Former is Eastern style.

The two times she introduces herself, it's "Koizumi Miki". I haven't yet run across her code name. Maybe we could have a poll?

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #1081 by Malady

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In other things:

Bot: Move all the Silver Linings connected "2006-11-08" links, to "2006-11-28", 'cause I screwed that up, months ago.

----

Also, why are we listing "Cyber-Thunder/Green Death/Warpig" under just Cyber-Thunder, when they're three different people, just all using progressively more improved versions of a set of power armor?

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6 years 1 month ago #1082 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: Also, why are we listing "Cyber-Thunder/Green Death/Warpig" under just Cyber-Thunder, when they're three different people, just all using progressively more improved versions of a set of power armor?

And why does it have three names: Cyber-Thunder, Green Death, and Warpig?

The couple of paragraphs after the question describe all three is the same power frame. Cyber-Thunder fitted it with air bursts, Green Death swapped in chemical sprayers in place of those, after the owner repaired it. Warpig opted for conventional weapons.

Same monster truck, different drivers.

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6 years 1 month ago #1083 by elrodw

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null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: In other name related redlinks...

The Gen1 Japanese Cat-girl... "Koizumi Miki", or "Miki Koizumi"? Former is Eastern style.

The two times she introduces herself, it's "Koizumi Miki". I haven't yet run across her code name. Maybe we could have a poll?

She uses the Eastern style - family name, given name. In Western style, it's "Miki Koizumi."
And I haven't specified a code name for her (yet).

Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert

6 years 1 month ago #1084 by E. E. Nalley

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Malady wrote: Also, the Flicker and Fade images seem to have been made by E.E. Nalley, but their ownership note was changed??

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Fade?diff=next&oldid=11872

No, those images are not mine. They were promotional stills for the outfit the girls are wearing, but they so perfectly fit the mental picture I had for Flicker and Fade I contacted the company and asked what models and hair were used so I could recreate it. The company artist who made the image couldn't remember because he had done it so long ago, but gave me permission to use his image so long as there was an attribution to Daz3D. So while I uploaded them, they are not my art, but used with permission.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 4 weeks ago #1085 by Malady

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E. E. Nalley wrote:
Malady wrote: Also, the Flicker and Fade images seem to have been made by E.E. Nalley, but their ownership note was changed??

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Fade?diff=next&oldid=11872

No, those images are not mine. They were promotional stills for the outfit the girls are wearing, but they so perfectly fit the mental picture I had for Flicker and Fade I contacted the company and asked what models and hair were used so I could recreate it. The company artist who made the image couldn't remember because he had done it so long ago, but gave me permission to use his image so long as there was an attribution to Daz3D. So while I uploaded them, they are not my art, but used with permission.

But does that mean the Wiki has permission? *shrugs*

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6 years 1 month ago #1086 by E. E. Nalley

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Malady wrote:
E. E. Nalley wrote:
Malady wrote: Also, the Flicker and Fade images seem to have been made by E.E. Nalley, but their ownership note was changed??

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Fade?diff=next&oldid=11872

No, those images are not mine. They were promotional stills for the outfit the girls are wearing, but they so perfectly fit the mental picture I had for Flicker and Fade I contacted the company and asked what models and hair were used so I could recreate it. The company artist who made the image couldn't remember because he had done it so long ago, but gave me permission to use his image so long as there was an attribution to Daz3D. So while I uploaded them, they are not my art, but used with permission.

But does that mean the Wiki has permission? *shrugs*

Yes, I specifically asked for that use.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

6 years 4 weeks ago #1087 by Malady

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Reposting my Birthday question, and adding some more, 'cause they're easy to use to fill dates, and it seems people missed it?

----

In other other news, how did we learn that Hijacker was born on 1977-12-27?

And did he enlist to the Marines on his 18th birthday, or before it?

The Garden of Good and Evil :

She’d been seventeen years old when she’d almost kicked in the doors of the recruiters offices, one by one, three days out from her eighteenth birthday. The Marine recruiter had seen something in her bloody-minded desire to escape her life. He’d given Erik Mahren a place to stay so he could finish school, a requirement to enlist.

----

Do we know Fey's birthday?

Or Tennyo's?

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6 years 4 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1088 by Sir Lee

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Well, let's see the assumptions:
1. Erik was born on 1977-12-27 (I don't remember the source for that).
2. Therefore, he was eighteen on 1995-12-27.
3. Three days before that, that is, 1995-12-24 (Christmas Eve!) he was annoying the recruiters.
4. He needed a place to stay until he could finish school before enlisting.

I hardly think that he could finish school between the 24 and the 27th of December. So he finished it later, probably around May 1996. Therefore he enlisted *after* completing eighteen years old.

EDIT: the birthdate was on the Wiki from the start, back in March 2010, and probably came from the old wiki. So we can rule out any post-March-2010 stories as a source. Not that it helps a lot; this includes all of "Upheaval", "Parkour Jam Hooligans", the three Outcast Corner tales and all but the last chapter of "Call the Thunder." But it somewhere to start looking. OTOH, it might be info from the old Canon Bible that was imported to the old Wiki.

There's a mention in the early Wiki entries of Mahren being 28 in November 2006. Whether this is information derive FROM the assumed birthdate or whether it is a mention in a story that was used to infer the birth year is unclear.

EDIT 2: math fixed

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Last Edit: 6 years 3 weeks ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 3 weeks ago #1089 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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If you've looked at the front page recently, you'll have noticed that something's missing. The History stuff has been moved to the Talk page as the first step in moving it to a separate history page. The questions as I see it are twofold: what do we call it, and where do we link it from so it doesn't get lost.

Sir Lee suggested something like "History of the Whateley project," so it isn't just the Wiki. While I've been around since before there was an actual Whateley forum and Wiki (my comments on Fey on Sapphire's Place have gotten lost with a lot of other good stuff), my memory of the details isn't all that good.

So... Comments, etc.

6 years 3 weeks ago #1090 by Wasamon

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Sir Lee wrote: Well, let's see the assumptions:
1. Erik was born on 1977-12-27 (I don't remember the source for that).
2. Therefore, he was eighteen on 1985-12-27.
3. Three days before that, that is, 1985-12-24 (Christmas Eve!) he was annoying the recruiters.
4. He needed a place to stay until he could finish school before enlisting.

I hardly think that he could finish school between the 24 and the 27th of December. So he finished it later, probably around May 1986. Therefore he enlisted *after* completing eighteen years old.

Might want to double-check your math on some of those dates...

Check this out sometime!

Princesses of the Pizza Parlor, ep. 1: Princesses Don't Do Summer School

6 years 3 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1091 by Sir Lee

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Ooops! You are right. I lost ten years somehow in there... it's fixed now. But fortunately, it did not affect the main point that Erik would not be able to graduate before his birthday.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 3 weeks ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 3 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1092 by Malady

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Still can't find the source for Hijacker's Birthday, but moving onto other things.

We know of another Handmaid of the Tao, should we split that section off, from "Bladedancer"?

----

Also, Jialing, the Artificer that made Destiny's Wave, seems like she might be the woman inside the blade, given how the sword sounds like "Eldritch", and the sword having a soul bound into it, likely happened at its creation?

But that's all speculation?

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1093 by Sir Lee

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I think it's not unreasonable to have separate entries to "Handmaiden of the Tao" and "Artificer" -- these are roles that over the time have been filled by various individuals.

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6 years 3 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1094 by Malady

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So, we're going with "Handmaiden", instead of "Handmaid", then?

It seems that "Handmaid" is more common, and "Handmaiden" is used more in other stories, and for Koehnes?

----

Hijacker / Eldritch's birthday might be Canon Bible info or something, given how we have it even from 2010 ?

----

"There's an Angel in Father John's Basement" had both its parts released on the same day??

Apparently, so, given the other sources I've found?

----

We could cut down on Wanted Pages by making a Template or just a standard note about how one-shot characters aren't gonna be linked, until the Wanted Pages fall below 1000...

Call it "Characters-stub" or something?

Code modded from stub code [ Click to expand ]

----

Also, we've got Adamant, a villain, and the material...

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1095 by Sir Lee

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"Handmaid," of course. I wrote from memory, while there were people honking below my window so I would get in the car...

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6 years 3 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1096 by Malady

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Ok. I put it under Powers, like Artificer is...

Should we also split off Destiny's Wave, since the other known Handmaid also wielded her, and so she isn't something tied to Chou alone?

----

Also, delete "Syndrian", since that's been changed to "Syndarian".

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1097 by Sir Lee

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Sure, why not? DW has its/her own history, and is probably one of the major magical artifacts in the WU.

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1098 by Malady

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Ok.

So, "Destiny's Wave" is currently the story. So move that to "Destiny's Wave (Story)", of course, but what to call the sword?

"Destiny's Wave (Sword)"? Or do we want to go general, with "Destiny's Wave (Weapon)"?

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1099 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: "Destiny's Wave (Sword)"? Or do we want to go general, with "Destiny's Wave (Weapon)"?

How about "Destiny's Wave (Artifact)"? An artifact category would cover Needle, Imalris, Malachim's Feather, the +5 Holy Codpiece of Doom, etc.

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6 years 3 weeks ago #1100 by Malady

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Well, I'd like to get Sir Lee, or at least a third person's POV on Destiny's Wave.

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6 years 3 weeks ago - 6 years 3 weeks ago #1101 by Sir Lee

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The whole thing hinges on what to do with the unadorned "Destiny's Wave" page, which currently holds the story. There are three possibilities:
1. Leave the current page as-is, with the possible addition of a hatnote, and create a new page named "Destiny's Wave (artifact)" or "Destiny's Wave (sword)" for the object.
2. Move the current page to "Destiny's Wave (story)" and turn the current page into a disambiguation. Since there are currently something like 40 links to the page, that would require some bot-editing to fix things, although that wouldn't really be urgent and could be done over a few days.
3. Move the current page to "Destiny's Wave (story)" and turn the current page into the page for the object, with an appropriate hatnote. That would require immediate bot-editing of the incoming links.

Generally speaking, I favor option 3; whenever we had similar name conflicts in the past, we tended to give the unadorned page title to the, for the lack of a better term, "original owner" of the name. By that I mean that the story is named after the object and not the opposite, so the sword "owns" the name.

And yeah, it will involve some work on my part with the AutoWikiBrowser bot to fix all the links, and right now (middle of the week and stuff) I'm not sure when I'll have a couple free hours to do that. Maybe I'll have to wait until the weekend. So that's a problem.

So, for the time being, I suggest going with Option 1 since that's what involves the least wiki breakage and the least work. As for the title, "Destiny's Wave (sword)" appears more intuitive to me. I don't know if we have any pages named "SomethingorOther (artifact)" -- at least I didn't find any when searching -- so it's not really a standard. It should be included in the artifacts category, though. I don't think there are enough named swords to justify creating a "swords" category right now. Let me see, there are DW, Malachim's Feather and... Smokey in his Dragonblade form? Smokey might rate his own page, but I don't think Malachim's Feather does -- all we know about it is "it is shaped like a scimitar, it's made of mithril and belongs to Fey" and this is unlikely to change in the near future.

Some time down the road I can fire the ol' AWB and turn it into Option 3, if there are no objections.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 3 weeks ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 3 weeks ago #1102 by Malady

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I'll wait for option 3. There's only that Handmaid that I linked from Artificer, that I'm waiting on. I'll clear out some other Redlinks.

....

Do we have confirmation that school starts first Monday of September?

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6 years 2 weeks ago #1103 by Malady

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In regards to Artifacts...

We have a redlink to the "Key of Nimue" from "The Boston Brawl".

Unlink, since we don't do items?

Also we have 3 for "Sacred Sphere"...

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6 years 2 weeks ago #1104 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: In regards to Artifacts...

We have a redlink to the "Key of Nimue" from "The Boston Brawl".

Unlink, since we don't do items?

Also we have 3 for "Sacred Sphere"...

IIRC, Sacred Sphere = world tree seed.

There are times when I'm writing that it would be very useful to know what advanced equipment and special items have been introduced, and to know what various character might be bringing to a fight. Jade can't be the only shopper at Sin d'Rome.

So, I do think the wiki should include items as we come to know more about them than "this exists". Not as high a priority under most circumstances as information on characters and stories.

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6 years 2 weeks ago #1105 by Sir Lee

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I don`t think that there was ever a clear rule saying "we don't do items." In fact, we don't have a set of rules as such; we have a bunch of of rules of thumb, of generally accepted policies and the like, which are always open for discussion.

Re artifacts... we have just recently discussed doing an entry for Destiny's Wave. Granted, DW is in a bit of a grey spot since it is a sentient artifact, but still, it's a sword!
OTOH, I gave a counterexample in the form of Malachim's Feather as a sort of artifact that did not deserve its own page. But my thinking there was not "it's an item, we don't do items;" My thinking was "there's very little to be said about it, and all of it is in the context of Fey, so it might as well stay in Fey's page." In my view, the reason Destiny's Wave deserves a page is not because it's sentient, but because it has its own history independent of Chou Lee, and indeed possibly independent of the Handmaid of the Tao. DW was forged by an Artificer, apparently contain the soul of said Artificer -- and that was *before* it became associated with the Handmaid.

And indeed we have had artifacts pages for a while now; even something that appeared in a single story such as the Telchines' Astrolabe got a page, because we had enough to say about it..

The Sacred Sphere (if it indeed is the World Tree seed -- I didn't check the links) should redirect to a World Tree page (if there is one, and if not it might be something to put on the "wanted" list). It has been a while since I read the Boston Brawl -- from what I remember, Diane appeared to be setting up the Key to show up later (Diane loves her Chekov's Guns). But Diane is still away in the Hellmouth, and she says her muse is not cooperating with a return to Whateley, so... this might never be revisited. So I currently am not sure if the Key of Nimue (or indeed the other artifacts the Necromancer was collecting) deserve their own pages.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 2 weeks ago #1106 by Malady

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Yeah, the Sphere is a World Tree Seed, since Fey planted it sometime in 2007 Summer.

----

So, now 1991 has 9/12 month pages made... Give it its own row in TimelineX?

... I've been keeping strings of filler days / months to 2 at most, but, Xalt, you've made strings of 3, so if everyone else is okay with that, I'll start plugging the gaps in the TimelineX, which are basically all the gaps, IIRC.

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6 years 2 weeks ago #1107 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: So, now 1991 has 9/12 month pages made... Give it its own row in TimelineX?

I'm not sure that's a good idea, since putting it in the upper section suggests that there's a lot of things there rather than a few scattered dates and maybe a flashback. I haven't been putting filler pages in the special cases section anyway, so it's not going to remove that many rows. It's only got 10 days scattered over 4 months, and most of them are a story in one month.

And yes, plug those gaps. I've just been too lazy to do it myself. It's a cheap way of getting rid of a few more red-links.

Thoughts? Comments? Notes? Ideas? Anyone?

6 years 1 week ago #1108 by E. E. Nalley

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WANTED:

I know this will be a lot of work, but I don't have the time myself and as a writer, this is the kind of thing that would be really useful. A page of room assignments, by cottage and room number with a link for each student living there. So:

Twain

201 Superboy, Lavalad
202 Etc.

Dickenson

and so on.

That would be a BIG help. If you're looking for a project, that would be awesome!

Thanks!

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

6 years 1 week ago #1109 by Sir Lee

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Well, the natural place to put that would be a section on the cottage pages themselves, with year subsections since people change floors each year. Also, there are changes during the year that should be noted -- Chou, Jadis' string of roomies, the changes in Dickinson when Kerry arrived etc.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 week ago #1110 by Malady

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Do any of the cottage pages have a chart we can use as a template?

Poe has the most info on its page...

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6 years 1 week ago #1111 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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I think that's a good idea. If someone sets up the template, I'll commit to keeping it up to date as I do stories, but at the moment (and for the next few months) my plate is full with trying to bring the Year 2 and Gen 2 timelines up to date. After that I'm planning on a beginning to end crawl to get everything else. Getting it complete is going to take a while, since a lot of room assignments are in stories from long ago and far away.

Idea: would it be possible to do a scan to find all instances of three-digit numbers? Those are almost certainly room numbers. That would be an immense help. (It would also pick up classrooms.)

6 years 1 week ago #1112 by Sir Lee

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The big charts for Poe apply only for after-expansion Poe, that is, September 2007 and afterwards. They apply to most other cottages for Gen2 too, with some minor differences (particularly on the basement level). I believe I have uploaded the Melville maps too? I think the Melville floorplan hasn't changed substantially between Gen1 and Gen2, but at some point a few extra storeys have been added, and the central patio has been covered up with some sort of transparent roof.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1113 by Malady

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I was thinking that the easiest method would be to do like a bulleted list, so we aren't constrained by cell sizes of tables:

Like for Jadis's room:

* Room ???:
** She-Beast
** Cutlass (Until X)
** Z (Until Y)
** Efc (Until Z)
** Superchick

----

But how to account for years...

Maybe make a new page for room listings, so we get more space?

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6 years 1 week ago #1114 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: I was thinking that the easiest method would be to do like a bulleted list, so we aren't constrained by cell sizes of tables:

Like for Jadis's room:

* Room ???:
** She-Beast
** Cutlass (Until X)
** Z (Until Y)
** Efc (Until Z)
** Superchick

----

But how to account for years...

Maybe make a new page for room listings, so we get more space?

I kind of like this. I think a separate page for room assignments would be mandatory - the cottage lists are big enough as it is. So maybe name them like "Poe room assignments"?

Yeah, Poe is the largest page; it's got some decent floor plans. I believe the floor plans for the four cottages on the north wing were supposed to be the same.

What to do about contradictions?

6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1115 by E. E. Nalley

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
What to do about contradictions?

Just note the reference of the contradiction so we can read them both and we'll WOG it. Hopefully there won't be many. Trying to avoid that is why I brought this up. Thanks very much to everybody helping!

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

Last Edit: 6 years 1 week ago by E. E. Nalley.

6 years 1 week ago #1116 by Malady

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@Xalt

Contradictions... Mark them using bracket notes, like how I note mentions in Stories' Character sections?

A slash would be good:

* A [ref] / B [ref] (Disputed)

----

That way we're not being redundant like:

* A (Contradicted by Story)
* B (Contradicted by Story)

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6 years 1 week ago #1117 by Anne

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Malady wrote: @Xalt

Contradictions... Mark them using bracket notes, like how I note mentions in Stories' Character sections?

A slash would be good:

* A [ref] / B [ref] (Disputed)

----

That way we're not being redundant like:

* A (Contradicted by Story)
* B (Contradicted by Story)

Not that I'll ever contribute to the wiki... But let me see what you are saying
A (for example someone mentions that Mule lives in Twain room 303 in one story with a roommate) and in another story B Mule is living in Twain 401 alone and we haven't seen him move...
Is this the way you would put this Mule, Twain, Roommate 303 [story really doesn't exist but this is an example]/Mule 401 single [another made up reference for example's sake]

Adopt my story: here
Nowhereville discussion

6 years 1 week ago #1118 by Malady

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At that point, I'd make a new section, Unsorted, and stick him in there.

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6 years 1 week ago #1119 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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OK, I've put up a new test page, named Poe Room Assignments. It's got exactly one room assignment: 218, shared by Pounce and Lancer.

I've done it both as a bullet list and as a table so we can easily see the difference.

I tried putting Sir Lee's pictures in, but clearly I'm missing something, because they're not going where I want them.

6 years 1 week ago #1120 by Anne

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I was just reviewing Theodore Walcutt's page and notice in the notes that you have a Darryl Walcutt mentioned. I thought that in the discussion here we disambiguated that to definitely be Trevor/Ayla being disrespectful (at least in his thoughts) toward Theodore whose middle name is Darryl.... Or am I mistaken?
crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Theodore_Walcutt

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6 years 1 week ago #1121 by E. E. Nalley

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Yes, Darryl is his middle name, which Theo, who actually prefers to be called Ted, considers low brow. A fact that is ruthlessly used against him by the Eldest Goodkind because he knows it pisses him off. It's but one of many aspects of their rivalry.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

6 years 1 week ago #1122 by Anne

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E. E. Nalley wrote: Yes, Darryl is his middle name, which Theo, who actually prefers to be called Ted, considers low brow. A fact that is ruthlessly used against him by the Eldest Goodkind because he knows it pisses him off. It's but one of many aspects of their rivalry.

Then maybe this note ought to make it onto his page, or at least the fact that when Ayla refers to him as Darryl he isn't talking about anyone other than Tansy's father.
Also doesn't Tansy have an older brother? I know that Ayla calls Paul (his older brother) to warn him against Tansy's mindfuck which he learns about from Jade during the Bottle a Jinn stories...

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6 years 1 week ago #1123 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Anne wrote:
E. E. Nalley wrote: Yes, Darryl is his middle name, which Theo, who actually prefers to be called Ted, considers low brow. A fact that is ruthlessly used against him by the Eldest Goodkind because he knows it pisses him off. It's but one of many aspects of their rivalry.
Then maybe this note ought to make it onto his page, or at least the fact that when Ayla refers to him as Darryl he isn't talking about anyone other than Tansy's father.
Also doesn't Tansy have an older brother? I know that Ayla calls Paul (his older brother) to warn him against Tansy's mindfuck which he learns about from Jade during the Bottle a Jinn stories...

Could you give the ref? I remember the incident, but I thought it was someone else's older brother. The someone else was in the Golden Kids.

6 years 1 week ago #1124 by Malady

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I think they mean Biff Matherson , Unicorn's older brother.

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6 years 1 week ago #1125 by elrodw

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: OK, I've put up a new test page, named Poe Room Assignments. It's got exactly one room assignment: 218, shared by Pounce and Lancer.

I've done it both as a bullet list and as a table so we can easily see the difference.

I tried putting Sir Lee's pictures in, but clearly I'm missing something, because they're not going where I want them.

For lack of a coherent muse (too much whiskey?) I put on the Poe page the canon WOG listings of who is where in Poe at the start of the term. There will be movement, but I'm going to allow whoever edits to clean this up and format the info appropriately - including links. It's late, I'm tired, I got little sleep, and my knee hurts like hell, so I figured I'd just get raw data into the thing and let someone else worry.

Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert

6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1126 by Malady

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Thanks, elrodw!

Now I'm wondering if we know how to trigger collapsing of sections like it happens in mobile, without needing to manually add the Div tags like we do with Gen2.

Also, given how much info is now in Bullet Style, scrap the Table?

----

For Anne and other Wiki Editing Newbies, you could dip your toes in, by linking the people on that list that Elrod just posted.

Or find the Wanted Pages link I put up before, and spawn one, given known info on the Wiki, like how Ruby is Sapphire's sister. Which is a majority of all we know.

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6 years 1 week ago #1127 by E. E. Nalley

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Unless anyone has an issue with it, I'm going to put Bethany 'Cover Girl' Anders in room 234 with Peacock.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1128 by Malady

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@Xalt - So, Scrap Table = No?

----

All Attic residents are Seniors?

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6 years 1 week ago #1129 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Well, that looks like it's go. Now for the other cottages.

I've put Beth Anders in.

6 years 1 week ago #1130 by null0trooper

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For the traditional cottages, don't forget the fourth floor for juniors, attic rooms for fixers and seniors

Why? Because freshman are on the second floor, so unless there's a LOT of attrition, 3rd, 4th, and attic/5th should have the same number of folks.

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6 years 1 week ago #1131 by Anne

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Just a thought, I know that Sandra Carter (AKA Diamondback) is a Whitman resident, for a while her roommate is Psydoe. Mrs (or Ms) Savage is the house parent.

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6 years 1 week ago #1132 by Sir Lee

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Not quite. It's canon that even in 2006, there were sophomores in Poe's 2nd floor. So, assuming that the attic has about half the capacity of the other floors, we have 3 1/2 floors for 4 years (plus a couple Junior Highs), meaning that each year takes roughly 0.87 floor in the old-style cottages.

New-style cottages have a much higher capacity, but 2007-2008 Poe is only halfway finished, so that extra capacity is not available yet.

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6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1133 by Malady

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I'm wondering if all of She-Beast's old roomies are all still in Melville.

And if Roomie 1 was a PSI, and therefore freaked out by the Devil...

----

Also, I've loaded up Melville with 22 possible rooms as of 2004-2005...

I think I might have too many rooms?

----

Gods, do you have good Melville info, since Melville Freshman Overpopulation in 2004 seems sorta obvious once sorted? But then, you gotta remember that Melville is mostly singles, etc... So *shrugs*.

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6 years 1 week ago #1134 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Does anyone know of some FREE software for making family tree charts? Preferably running on both Windows and MacOS?

6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1135 by Malady

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If it's not too complicated, try Microsoft Word?

I made some simple ones with Shapes and Lines?

Or hold on, and I might macro something up in Excel...

Err... No... 'Cause if we need to account for things like half-brothers and stuff... Gets tough, fast?

But... There's this... www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Family-Tree-on-Excel

Which points here... templates.office.com/en-us/Family-tree-chart-TM01021967

But, you want it vertical, instead of horizontal?

----

Bot: "Victory" to "Archon".

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6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #1136 by null0trooper

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FamilyTree Builder might work. I haven't tried it, myself.

If it's boxes with circles and arrows and text and lines you need, Dia might be more like what you're looking for.

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 week ago by null0trooper.

6 years 1 week ago #1137 by Sir Lee

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It might be overkill in a build-a-Death-Star-to-kill-a-mosquito way, but Gramps has a good reputation. I think there is a portable version in the PortableApps website, too.

Regarding Jadis' roomies... Cutlass moved to Whitman and is apparently rooming with Sapper now.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 week ago #1138 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Thanks everyone. I suppose I should have said that I intend to use it for the Wiki, so it has to be portable across systems and relatively easy to use. I could do what I want in raw SVG, but that's time-consuming and not something I expect anyone else to do. I've used Graphviz in the distant past - it looks really different today, and they're saying they need help with MacOS.

I don't have any Micro$haft products. I know that's heresy - authors are expected to have Word, at least. Dia looks interesting, although the last release is 4 1/2 years old.

So this idea goes onto the mull it a bit more pile.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

6 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 days ago #1139 by Malady

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@Sir Lee - You said you have Melville floorplans?

Melville's are unique, right? So none of the plans we have images of, would apply?

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Images

----

Constructed in a Post Modern concrete and glass facade style, the new dorm boasted an oval shape with a center courtyard and separate dorm 'wings' for males and females,

----

Gotta use this instead of Poe Layout picture, for those that fit:

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/File:Traditi...e_students_floor.png

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6 years 6 days ago #1140 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: Gotta use this instead of Poe Layout picture, for those that fit:

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/File:Traditi...e_students_floor.png

Thought I did that for all the cottages when I built the pages. The northern cottages ought to have the new floor plan in the 2016-2017 year section; none of them have that floor plan in the 2007-2008 academic year.

6 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 days ago #1141 by Sir Lee

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Yeah, ElrodW sent me floorplans for Melville a few months after he sent me the Poe ones, so I could clean up/color-code them as I did for Poe... I thought I had put then in the Wiki, but apparently I never finished it. Another thing to put in the queue...

...Yeah, just checked. I did color-code the ground floor, but there was some issue with the font sizes either when I imported the PDF to SVG, or when Inkscape changed stuff a couple years ago (the file opens with a warning that "it was created with an older version of Inkscape"). I'll have to check to figure out what's wrong with it -- fortunately, SVG is a text format, so once I figure out what's wrong, the fix may involve just a find-and-replace command.

The other floors need a lot of work. The basement has been converted to SVG but not color-coded, and the other four blueprints (dorm levels 3-8/10-11, penthouse level 12, main social floor 2 and upperclass social floor 9) are still in the PDFs Elrod sent me.

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Last Edit: 6 years 6 days ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 days ago #1142 by Malady

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Dickinson and Twain use Poe's image in 2006-2007. Wrong, right?

----

I'm a Paint.NET guy, myself.

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6 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 days ago #1143 by Sir Lee

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Theoretically, Dickinson, Whitman, Twain, Emerson and the pre-2007 Poe are identical or nearly so. Hawthorne supposedly started out the same, but was heavily modified in the intervening years, so it might be substantially different if the story so requires.

The problem, which was one of the meta-reasons for the Poe upgrade, is that the floor descriptions in different stories didn't match. The "old Poe" floorplan disagrees with several stories -- in different ways for each story. You may use it as a rough idea for the old cottage floorplans, but don't take it as gospel. There will be discrepancies..

I hear nice things about Paint.NET, and I have even suggested it for some clients, but I tend to work mostly on GIMP. I find that its metaphors work better for me than, for instance, Photoshop's (I'm more technically-minded than artistically-minded, and Photoshop tends to use more artistic metaphors).

But that's for photoediting and painting. For drawing, the little of it I do, I go to Inkscape. In this particular case, it worked quite well, because the CAD software Elrod used to draw the floorplans -- I don't know the name of the software -- exported the results in vector-based PDFs... which are essentially EPS files in a PDF container... and Inkscape can import them readily and convert them to SVG. So the color-coding consists in drawing large colored blobs underneath the blueprint, and when it's finished I convert it to PNG -- which compresses extremely well for this kind of image (few, flat colors, no gradients, sharp transitions). If I had just bucket-painted the rooms instead of working with vectors, instead of sharp, high-def images weighing less than 100kb, we would have blurry, mid-definition ones weighing almost ten times as much.

Also, I still have the SVGs. If anybody needs the Poe floorplans in a much larger scale, it's no problem at all.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 6 days ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 6 days ago #1144 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Is it possible to use SVG directly? I know Wikipedia has gone to SVG where it makes sense, but I don't know if the version Fandom uses does? It's not that it's hard to turn it into a PNG, but being able to use SVG directly means that anyone who wants to touch up or change a family diagram can do so just by adding Inkscape (or another SVG editor) to their system.

Maybe it would be possible to save it as a file? Still contemplating if I want to do this.

6 years 6 days ago #1145 by null0trooper

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Is it possible to use SVG directly?

It's possible to construct SVG by hand, although I don't recommend it for projects that don't require precise representation of values.

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6 years 6 days ago #1146 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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null0trooper wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Is it possible to use SVG directly?

It's possible to construct SVG by hand, although I don't recommend it for projects that don't require precise representation of values.

I've done it, and I agree, I don't recommend it. However, that wasn't the question. I was asking if it was possible to use an SVG as a picture in a Wiki page, the same way as you use a GIF or a PNG.

6 years 6 days ago #1147 by Malady

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Is it possible to use SVG directly?

It's possible to construct SVG by hand, although I don't recommend it for projects that don't require precise representation of values.

I've done it, and I agree, I don't recommend it. However, that wasn't the question. I was asking if it was possible to use an SVG as a picture in a Wiki page, the same way as you use a GIF or a PNG.

Yes.

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/File:Seal_of...he_United_States.svg

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6 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 days ago #1148 by Sir Lee

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It is possible to upload the SVG to the wiki, but in this particular case it doesn't make much sense -- take for instance the Poe dorm floor blueprint: the SVG is 1.87 Mb, while the PNG is just 120 Kb. That is, the SVG is roughly 15 times larger. That's because the blueprint includes A LOT of detail, such as explicit measurements for each and every architectural element (doors, windows, walls and such). Also, don't ask me why, but for some reason in the conversion process the text strings got broken into a separate SVG element for each single letter, which adds a lot of useless cruft to the SVG code.

I suppose I could make the SVGs available for download while keeping the PNGs linked to the pages to speed up loading, maybe?

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 6 days ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 6 days ago #1149 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Thanks, Malady. I tried it out, and it works great.

Sir Lee. I agree, using the SVG doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the floor plans, since people aren't usually going to want to change them. I'm thinking more of diagrams of family relationships, where other people may want to touch them up or change them.

Conversion programs do weird things, although I suspect that the conversion program created a vector drawing for each letter rather than try to figure out which font to use. The SVG file would probably be a lot smaller if the strings used a system font.

Right now, though, I'm staring at another bit of Yak shaving: the standard Inkscape install for MacOS uses X graphics, and MacOS hasn't shipped with X graphics for the last few releases. There's a version that uses the standard MacOS graphics, but that has to be compiled specially.

6 years 6 days ago #1150 by Sir Lee

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No, actually, it IS using system fonts. If I load it in a text editor, all the characters are there, but it's roughly the SVG equivalent of writing "Title" in HTML as
<span id="string1" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span id="letter1">T</span><span id="letter2">i</span><span id="letter3">t</span><span id="letter4">l</span><span id="letter5">e</span></span>
Ridiculous, I know, but about par for the course for machine-generated code. Have a look sometime at the way MS-Word generates HTML. Or don't, if you value your mental health.

I have a suspicion that the actual culprit is the code that generated the EPS code to embed in the PDF. PDF is based on PostScript, which was designed to be a language to control printers, NOT to generate editable documents. Concepts like "word", "paragraph" and "sequence" are sorta alien to it, and were tacked on in later revisions. That's the reason converting PDF to editable text formats is a mixed bag at best. -- it's better than scanning and OCR'ing because there's no ambiguity on the letters, but still the software has to guess a lot regarding word breaks, paragraph structure etc.

It is possible to hand-edit into a semblance of sanity (and in fact, I had to do it in a few cases, to fix text that was overlapping), but it's generally Too Much Work.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 5 days ago #1151 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Back in the day when I was still using Word as my editor, I got more familiar with the way it created HTML than I really liked. I wrote a small Python program to clean it up. The program did a few other things as well, which was the real reason I did it, but the cleanup rendered inspecting the output a lot more pleasant - as well as shrinking it substantially.

I'm no longer sure what some of those things were - it's close to two decades ago - but two of them were embedding CSS in the header and changing characters that weren't in the USASCII set to character entities. The embedded CSS was needed for distribution, and the character fixes were to make it work on improperly configured servers - which were legion back in the day.

Of course, you're not in a situation where you need to run the cleanup on slightly changed files multiple times a day over a several month period, so writing a program may not be an effective use of time.

6 years 5 days ago - 6 years 5 days ago #1152 by Malady

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So, Sir Lee...

Could you give a quick room count for Melville Floors?

Unless the pics are coming to the wiki soon?

----

I gotta remember to add the Melville description from 2 pages ago, and to keep in mind that

for the first time [around the late 70s], the student body crested five hundred students. Short of dorm space, in 1981 ground was broken on Melville Cottage,

----

So, before that, school population was <500. And also Poe wasn't student housing until after WARS...

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6 years 5 days ago #1153 by elrodw

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Malady wrote: So, Sir Lee...

Could you give a quick room count for Melville Floors?

Unless the pics are coming to the wiki soon?

IIRC (brain is numb from work today), the 'old' Gen 1 design had 14 rooms on the floor with 2 common bathrooms, plus a kitchen, an entertainment room (usable as mini-theater, very good music room, etc)

The Gen 2 design has 2 alternates we batted back and forth. The one we mostly settled on has an RA room and 12 doubles. Each pair of doubles shares a bathroom. The penthouse has 8 suites for the creme de la creme.

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6 years 5 days ago - 6 years 5 days ago #1154 by Sir Lee

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Let me see on the blueprints I have here...

Melville is a squarish "O" shape, sorta like the Indianapolis Speedway. The hallway runs along the inner wall of the "O", with windows to the atrium in the middle.

Along the outer walls, there are six rooms (assumed to be doubles) along each longer side of the "O". There is an unlabeled thingy in the middle of each long side, roughly the size a 7th room would be, that I assume to be the stairs/elevators shaft

In the short sides there are bathrooms and an additional bedroom, for a total of 14 student double rooms per level. The "short side" rooms don't seem to be much different from the others, except that for some reason they have a door opening directly to the bathroom in addition to the door opening to the hallway.

The four corners are: RA apartment (with private bath), Common Room, Cooking Room and Theater/TV room.

Oh, and all the rooms appear to have balconies not quite the width of the room.

12th level has luxury penthouse suites. Each of them is composed of a living room, bedroom and private bath with a largish closet. Each suite is about the size of 3 regular rooms from the other levels. There are 8 suites total: 2 in each long side and 2 in each short side (there are no common bathrooms or common areas). The short side suites could be more accurately described as "corner suites", since they take over the entire corner of the level. Each suite has a large balcony beside the bedroom and living room -- but not beside the bathroom.

So: a total of 29 students per "regular" level (14 double rooms plus one RA in a single) plus 8 in the luxury suites, which could easily house two people each but are supposed to be luxury perks and usually assigned as singles. Gen2 has 8 "regular" floors, so Gen2 Melville should house 240 students.

I believe Gen1 is not that much different, except with less floors, I think... five? That would decrease Melville capacity to... let me see... (5x29)+8 = 153 students or thereabouts.

Elrod also sent me an alternate floorplan for the "regular" Melville levels that has 6 groups of 2 double rooms sharing a common bathroom per level -- 2 on each long side, 1 on each long side. Naturally there are no common bathrooms in such a level, but the corner rooms are otherwise unchanged. Such a level would house 25 students instead of 29, but with more comfort.

It's possible that the levels are not all the same -- maybe levels 3-8 are the ones with 14 rooms and communal baths, levels 10 and 11 have 12 rooms with semiprivate baths, and level 12 is the 8 penthouses.

Ground floor is 1, following the American numbering scheme. Levels 2 and 9 are social floors with various activities, but level 9 is supposed to be restricted to upperclassmen. There's also a basement.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 5 days ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 5 days ago #1155 by null0trooper

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Sir Lee wrote: I believe Gen1 is not that much different, except with less floors, I think... five? That would decrease Melville capacity to... let me see... (5x29)+8 = 153 students or thereabouts.

Eight floors, I think. Wyatt Cody is in Rm. 803 in Years 1&2.

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6 years 5 days ago - 6 years 5 days ago #1156 by Sir Lee

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I'm counting five housing floors. And I think Wyatt has a penthouse single, otherwise it would be difficult for him to have "sleepovers" with Lainie and Tansy.

So, Gen1 has a total of 8 levels:
1- Ground floor
2- Social level
3-7- Dorm levels
8- Penthouse level.

Makes sense, in a way. The first additional floor in the expansion is 9, which is the "upperclass social level". Level 8 was remodeled to be standard dorm rooms. Levels 10, 11 and 12 (new penthouses) are also new.

As for the pics in the wiki, that will take a while. Ground floor is more or less done, except for some weird glitch with fonts that I'll probably have to fix by hand-editing the SVG. I have the basement in SVG but didn't start to color it yet. The other floors? I haven't even started on them. And I have to submit them to ElrodW and the canon team for approval before putting them out there.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 6 years 5 days ago by Sir Lee.

6 years 4 days ago #1157 by Malady

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So, some of the supposed singles I put as my guesses, have gotta be doubles?

----

"Force-bolt" and "Force Bolt", appear to be the same person? Given that the former had a battle:

"They were in the center of campus, but some notable buildings were missing. She realized that she must be seeing a memory from decades in the past."

And the latter:

"While at Whateley he managed to destroy one of the service tunnels and knock out power and water to Melville Cottage, Poe Cottage and Hawthorne Cottage in one go. The rumor is that he moved to Australia as soon as he graduated."

And they're both mentioned in Jade stories...

----

I wonder which buildings are missing in 1987? Crystal Hall should've already been built... Hawthorne might be missing... But then if they're the same person, how does "Force Bolt" take out the utilities, for a Cottage that doesn't yet exist?

Unless the utilities incident is separate from the demon battle or something...

whateleyacademy.net/index.php/wa-univers...-of-whateley-academy

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6 years 4 days ago #1158 by Sir Lee

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OK, I have just moved "Destiny's Wave" to "Destiny's Wave (story)". I also changed the redirect so "Destiny's Wave" points to the appropriate subsection in the "Bladedancer" page. Turns out that there were already a bunch of links (15 or thereabouts) that were intended to point to the artifact/character/sword Destiny's Wave, not to the story, so the move has already clarified some stuff.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 4 days ago - 6 years 4 days ago #1159 by Malady

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Where / How should we link "Peter Arendt" on the "Mutant Commission Office", given that he's a statistician, along with "Stephen Braeburn", not a Field Office person...

Make a new "Other Personnel" section, and put them there, under New York?

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6 years 3 days ago #1160 by Sir Lee

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Meanwhile, I got through the font issue with the Melville Ground Floor floorplan (turned out that it was easier to re-import the PDF and just copy the colored areas from the old attempt) and, since there seems to be a particular demand for it, I'm tackling the main Melville dorm levels blueprint... just be patient, folks, as soon as I have something approved by the CC, I'll post it.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 2 days ago - 6 years 2 days ago #1161 by Malady

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Cool!

----

On recent questions about WhatLinksHere.

Any objections to expanding the Stub message into something like

Help improve the wiki by editing this page with more info, gathered from the stories. The related pages (link to WhatLinksHere for that phrase), likely have some information that isn't on this page.

Instead of the current, simple:

This article is a stub. You can help Whateley Academy Wiki by expanding it.

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Last Edit: 6 years 2 days ago by Malady.

6 years 2 days ago #1162 by Sir Lee

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I'm fine with customizing the template. The current template is the default one by wikia/fandom.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 1 day ago - 6 years 1 day ago #1163 by Malady

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Since Princess Kako is a Real Person, can / should we spawn pages for her parents, with the contents being basically just the Real World tags, since they made appearances?

Given that they're real, we have all the info we need, to make them a Family page, but what should we call it? Since they don't have a surname???

Just raid en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_House_of_Japan

Maybe?

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Last Edit: 6 years 1 day ago by Malady.

6 years 1 day ago #1164 by Sir Lee

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First, the mere fact that a character is a real person, does not mean that their entire family should be included in the wiki. That's what the {{realworld}} hatnote template and the Wikipedia are for.

But then again, there ARE mentions of other members of the Household, up to the Emperor himself, I think. Most are pretty short. So, a family page to consolidate all those short mentions would be reasonable. I don't see the need to include any members who have not been mentioned in the stories, though.

As for the name... I think "Imperial House of Japan" is fine.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 21 hours ago - 6 years 21 hours ago #1165 by Malady

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And I just learned that "naishinnō" would be translated as "Princess", and it seems that the "Imperial House of Japan" has no last name...

So should we just move "Naishinno Kako" (back?) to "Princess Kako"?

... How should we describe the Imperial House? Just take Wikipedia's description, while stripping out all the translations?

Which seems like it could be summarized as "All of the Emperor's legitimate male descendants, and all of his legitimate unmarried female descendants", his wife, his mother, and... how would there be an Empress dowager, if the Emperor is still alive? ... Am I parsing any of this wrong?

Article 5 of the Imperial Household Law (皇室典範 Kōshitsu Tenpan) defines the Imperial Family (皇族) as the Empress (皇后 kōgō); the Grand empress dowager (太皇太后 tai-kōtaigō); the Empress dowager (皇太后 kōtaigō); the Emperor's legitimate sons and legitimate grandsons in the legitimate male-line (親王 shinnō), and their consorts (親王妃 shinnōhi); the Emperor's unmarried legitimate daughters and unmarried legitimate granddaughters in the legitimate male-line (内親王 naishinnō); the Emperor's other legitimate male descendants in the third and later generations in the legitimate male-line (王 ō) and their consorts (王妃 ōhi); and the Emperor's other unmarried legitimate female descendants in the third and later generations in the legitimate male-line (女王 joō).

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6 years 19 hours ago #1166 by Sir Lee

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Monarchies work by different rules from us. The British Royals appear to have a number of different surnames that they use depending on circumstances. And the Queen does not have a passport.
In the case of the Japanese Imperial Family, they don't have even dynasties -- allegedly the family line is unbroken since the foundation of Japan, so there's no ambiguity. The family is the Imperial Household, and the Imperial Household is the family. There was no time when the family was not Imperial, and no time when a different family could claim the title. You might as well say that "Imperial Household of Japan" IS their surname.

Further confusing things is that after ascending the throne, the Emperor sorta "loses" his given name: under Japanese etiquette (mostly ignored by us uncouth gaijin), he is never referred by name, but just as "His Highness the Emperor." Past emperors are referred by the "era name", somewhat similar to a "regnal name" in Western practice but not used to refer directly to the Emperor during his life. Hirohito became "The Emperor" in 1926, and now is "Emperor Showa". Current era is "Heisei", so after his death the current Emperor (born Akihito) will be referred to as "Emperor Heisei." He is scheduled to abdicate, though, so between abdication and death he will take the title "Joko" ("Retired Emperor" or "Emperor Emeritus.") -- my understanding of it is that it's going to be just "Joko", not "Joko Heisei".

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1167 by Malady

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So, is my summary good?

All of the Emperor's legitimate male descendants, all of his legitimate unmarried female descendants, his wife, and his mother

Still don't get the Dowager Empress bit...

----

For ppl trying to make the page, basically everyone seen is from Rises the Sun?

Emperor appears in Part 2.

----

\/ - OH... I should've actually clicked those links, instead of assuming. *sigh*

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Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Malady.

5 years 11 months ago #1168 by E. E. Nalley

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Malady wrote: Still don't get the Dowager Empress bit...

The Emperor is the ruler of Japan.
The Dowager Empress is his widowed mother who has 'retired' from being sovereign.
The Grand Dowager Empress is the Emperor's Grandmother, who also has retired before her daughter, the Dowager Empress became Empress.

Make sense?

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

5 years 11 months ago #1169 by Bek D Corbin

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As I understand it (Mage-Ohki will probably correct me on this) but the reason the Mikado (the 'Emperor' of Japan is not an Emperor, he's a Mikado, which is a very different thing; we just don't have a word for it in English) doesn't have a family name is that when the tradition of the Mikado was founded, 'Clan Names' were a thing that wars got started over. Clans were very close to being distinct Tribes, which had longstanding rivalries and enmities. When the Mikado was recognized as the binding agent that united the various clans, it was very important that they were not being ruled by any one clan, but by the Mikado, who was not of any of the recognized Clans.

Sort of the way that English is the common language of India; it's not that English is that great, it's just that its not any of the competing local languages. People of different Indian ethnicities can can speak to each other without surrendering any stature. A similar dynamic is forming in many places in Africa, where French is becoming the common language. So, back to Japan, by bowing to the Mikado, the leaders of the various Clans could come to accords, without losing position to any of the other Clans.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1170 by MageOhki

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By and large, Bek's correct. There's some details and other things, he's missing, but in a lot of ways...

"Mikado" can be viewed not as a title but a name in itself. Remember, technically the Sitting Emperor *has no given name* under the most *strict* interpretations. *shrugs* It's complex. I'm *not* going to even try to go into all of it, but by and large, Bek is *right*, and in a lot of ways, one thing that isn't mentioned, is the Emperor (Mikado) can *also* be considered *the* head of ALL clans.

Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by MageOhki.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1171 by Malady

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So, the Imperial House, is:

All of the Emperor's legitimate male descendants, all of his legitimate unmarried female descendants, his wife, his mother...

And is the Grand Dowager Empress, his maternal grandmother? Or is it his paternal grandmother? I think it's the latter, since that'd be the wife of the double-previous emperor?

But that doesn't seem to matter, since there are no living possible Grand Dowager Empresses at this time?

And that Dowager Empress, of any type, isn't an automatically given titled, but has to be assigned?

----

In other things...

Back to me having too many supposed rooms, to fit any actual Melville Room configuration...

If we assume that every Melville Junior of 2006-2007, were in Melville back when they were Freshmen in 2004-2005...

But I'm not sure if we can even assume that a majority had a constant cottage? Other than, "What reason would they have to leave?"

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Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Malady.

5 years 11 months ago #1172 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: But I'm not sure if we can even assume that a majority had a constant cottage?
Other than, "What reason would they have to leave?"

That's kind of the point of having a House system: building a community relationship with others with similar outlooks.

There might be some folks who start out in Hawthorne Cottage who'd hope to move out.
Some might be transfered to Poe to provide a more supportive environment.
Some (like Charge) might be transferred to Melville to break up maladjustive social groups.

Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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5 years 11 months ago #1173 by Malady

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null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: But I'm not sure if we can even assume that a majority had a constant cottage?
Other than, "What reason would they have to leave?"

That's kind of the point of having a House system: building a community relationship with others with similar outlooks.

There might be some folks who start out in Hawthorne Cottage who'd hope to move out.
Some might be transfered to Poe to provide a more supportive environment.
Some (like Charge) might be transferred to Melville to break up maladjustive social groups.

So, if we presume that... Oh, 80% of my guesses of who's in Melville, and also have Singles, are on the money, that'd still be too many people?

Would Imperious be willing to have a roommate, and who would it be? Stygian??

----

"Koizumi Miki" vs "Miki Koizumi" just got more relevant, with 2 wicks for both, and they're both redlinks...

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5 years 11 months ago #1174 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: Would Imperious be willing to have a roommate, and who would it be? Stygian??

Stygian has a single. Very unpopular powers and it was mentioned in Y1 that he has to have shades of the dead hanging around just to be reminded to eat.

Malady wrote: "Koizumi Miki" vs "Miki Koizumi" just got more relevant, with 2 wicks for both, and they're both redlinks...

Mea culpa. That's how she introduces herself to Danny, although she's referred to in third person as "Miki Koizumi"

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Discussion Thread

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1175 by Malady

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For 2006-2007, as said in "No Beast So Fierce"... Jobe and Belphoebe are in Room 409, and She-Beast and Superchick are "RIGHT ACROSS THE HALL" from them...

So what does that mean, that (Carson?) assigned a Freshman a room on the 4th floor? That the 3rd and 2nd are full up??

Or she wanted to place Jobe near She-Beast?

----

"Eight stories high, the largest selection of Singles rooms" ... Wait, if there's 8 floors, and, therefore, floors aren't segregated by Class, then there could totally be 20+ freshmen in Melville, no matter what year, just split them over 2 or more floors, unlike the other dorms which only have 5 floors or whatever.

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Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Malady.

5 years 11 months ago #1176 by Sir Lee

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I think Carson had ulterior motives, yes. I remember something in that story about the resident of the room having been moved to make room for Jobe & Belphy. The admin is very likely to be aware that one of the few people who can handle Jobe in any meaningful way is Jadis, so having her nearby is a good idea.

Also, minor issue with the Wiki entry... Belphy was not "moved from Twain" because Belphy did not EXIST before.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

5 years 11 months ago #1177 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Sir Lee wrote: I think Carson had ulterior motives, yes. I remember something in that story about the resident of the room having been moved to make room for Jobe & Belphy. The admin is very likely to be aware that one of the few people who can handle Jobe in any meaningful way is Jadis, so having her nearby is a good idea.

Also, minor issue with the Wiki entry... Belphy was not "moved from Twain" because Belphy did not EXIST before.

Fixed.

Also, since you've got the floor plans, what is the room right across from 409?

5 years 11 months ago #1178 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: But I'm not sure if we can even assume that a majority had a constant cottage?
Other than, "What reason would they have to leave?"

That's kind of the point of having a House system: building a community relationship with others with similar outlooks.

There might be some folks who start out in Hawthorne Cottage who'd hope to move out.
Some might be transfered to Poe to provide a more supportive environment.
Some (like Charge) might be transferred to Melville to break up maladjustive social groups.

So, if we presume that... Oh, 80% of my guesses of who's in Melville, and also have Singles, are on the money, that'd still be too many people?

We're probably going to have to live with that, since I don't think anybody was keeping track. At least for Gen 1, Year 1. There are too many anomalies to straighten out.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1179 by Sir Lee

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Also, since you've got the floor plans, what is the room right across from 409?

Well, here's the thing... I don't have an answer for you. Two main reasons for that:

1. The floorplans have the rooms, but they aren't numbered. We have yet to settle on a numbering scheme.
2. The story implicitly assumes a central corridor with rooms on both sides. But the floorplans have a corridor along the inner wall of the building, facing the inner patio, and all the rooms on the external wall.
Which makes sense: with an O-shaped building, if there were rooms facing both inside and outside, the inside rooms (particularly on the lower floors) would be MUCH darker and moldy. Also, the courtyard doubles as a an alternative way for flyers to travel from one floor to another. I'm pretty sure that at least in Gen2 the courtyard is fully enclosed, that is, there's a transparent roof above it. Not as sure about it in Gen1.

So... the room "right across" 409 depends on how you define "right across" for a building where all the rooms are on the same side of the hallway, and where 409 ends up being in the numbering scheme you choose.

We do have a few data. For instance, we know that the even/odd number does NOT equate with male/female: we have both females (Headrush/Charge, Jobe/Belphy, Aztecka,) and males (Sebastiano, Cavalier) in odd-numbered rooms. I think I found a couple schemes which would satisfy at least some of the constraints of known room assignments (specifically 407, 409 and Jadis') without being unduly stupid. I'll discuss the matter with Elrod.

But I don't see any way to fit Cavalier's room (517) anywhere, since no floor has more than 15 rooms. Must be a typo.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Sir Lee.

5 years 11 months ago #1180 by Court

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
Malady wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
Malady wrote: But I'm not sure if we can even assume that a majority had a constant cottage?
Other than, "What reason would they have to leave?"

That's kind of the point of having a House system: building a community relationship with others with similar outlooks.

There might be some folks who start out in Hawthorne Cottage who'd hope to move out.
Some might be transfered to Poe to provide a more supportive environment.
Some (like Charge) might be transferred to Melville to break up maladjustive social groups.

So, if we presume that... Oh, 80% of my guesses of who's in Melville, and also have Singles, are on the money, that'd still be too many people?

We're probably going to have to live with that, since I don't think anybody was keeping track. At least for Gen 1, Year 1. There are too many anomalies to straighten out.

This is Whateley. Put a lot of students into one room. Just have the room be a lot bigger on the inside than on the outside. Devisors have to have something to do with their time, after all. (Or maybe it was mages. Who knows?)

5 years 11 months ago #1181 by Malady

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On that old topic of "How to make a family tree."

www.worldanvil.com

It seems to have a family tree template ... And an account to get access to it, is free...

But, it's not very fancy... It might just be easier to.... Hmm... That's an Image ... Copy it onto your computer, Erase the names, and add your own, and edit the picture as needed?

What would a Whateley themed family tree look like...

Oh, for the Wiki, we could just import Wikipedia's Tree Chart and use that... Dunno how to import templates, though... Gotta go...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_...a_infoboxes_tutorial

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5 years 11 months ago #1182 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Malady wrote: On that old topic of "How to make a family tree."

www.worldanvil.com

It seems to have a family tree template ... And an account to get access to it, is free...

But, it's not very fancy... It might just be easier to.... Hmm... That's an Image ... Copy it onto your computer, Erase the names, and add your own, and edit the picture as needed?

What would a Whateley themed family tree look like...

Oh, for the Wiki, we could just import Wikipedia's Tree Chart and use that... Dunno how to import templates, though... Gotta go...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_...a_infoboxes_tutorial

Wikipedias' Tree Chart looks like it checks all the boxes - except that it looks like installing it is probably a no-no without boatloads of permissions. I don't know if installing the "scribuntu" (sp?) extension is permissible, or if it might actually be there lurkning in the background.

5 years 11 months ago #1183 by Court

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:
Malady wrote: On that old topic of "How to make a family tree."

www.worldanvil.com

It seems to have a family tree template ... And an account to get access to it, is free...

But, it's not very fancy... It might just be easier to.... Hmm... That's an Image ... Copy it onto your computer, Erase the names, and add your own, and edit the picture as needed?

What would a Whateley themed family tree look like...

Oh, for the Wiki, we could just import Wikipedia's Tree Chart and use that... Dunno how to import templates, though... Gotta go...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart

www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_...a_infoboxes_tutorial

Wikipedias' Tree Chart looks like it checks all the boxes - except that it looks like installing it is probably a no-no without boatloads of permissions. I don't know if installing the "scribuntu" (sp?) extension is permissible, or if it might actually be there lurking in the background.

If you are referring to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart , the permissions are given at the bottom of the page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_...3.0_Unported_License

This is a very generous license. We are free to use the work, with our only obligations being to attribute where we got the code from, and to include a link to creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

This is normal for most wikipedia pages; it also applies to any of the Ahnentafel templates, and the general Template:Chart. (Wikipedia provides a lot of options for writing family trees.)

Considering the discussion of the Japanese Imperial Family, people might be amused by this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_imperial_family_tree Wikipedia uses this as an example of an "incredibly complex" family tree.

5 years 11 months ago #1184 by Sir Lee

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I think that Xalt meant that installing it on Fandom/Wikia might be a problem. I found out a while ago that some things (such as authorizing bots) can only be done by Fandom staff, not the admins of wikis. Copying a template wouldn't be a problem, but if it requires a particular MediaWiki extension that Fandom did not make available yet, then we would be SOL.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1185 by Malady

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To change topics...

I found Category: Forces on my Force de-redlinking spree... Move that to a "Forces" page of its own, and change the category description to something much shorter?

----

Move "Dora" to "Dora (AI)"?

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5 years 11 months ago #1186 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Sir Lee wrote: I think that Xalt meant that installing it on Fandom/Wikia might be a problem. I found out a while ago that some things (such as authorizing bots) can only be done by Fandom staff, not the admins of wikis. Copying a template wouldn't be a problem, but if it requires a particular MediaWiki extension that Fandom did not make available yet, then we would be SOL.

Exactly.

Doing a bit more research, I found this on the Templates Wiki:

Templates Wiki --> General Wiki Templates --> Familytree

It's a bit primitive, but since it's on Fandom's Templates Wiki it looks like it is probably importable without major issues. I'm not sure I can import it, though, or whether it needs an admin,

5 years 11 months ago #1187 by null0trooper

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Malady wrote: To change topics...

I found Category: Forces on my Force de-redlinking spree... Move that to a "Forces" page of its own, and change the category description to something much shorter?

Maybe put "Forces" as a subcategory under "Concepts"?

Malady wrote: Move "Dora" to "Dora (AI)"?

Is there another Dora yet?

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Discussion Thread

5 years 11 months ago #1188 by Court

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In the Avatar Trait wiki page, the second link of references 1, 3, & 4 all give 404 errors. (The other references only have one link.)

5 years 11 months ago #1189 by null0trooper

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Court wrote: In the Avatar Trait wiki page, the second link of references 1, 3, & 4 all give 404 errors. (The other references only have one link.)

Unfortunately, when the old forum died, a number of referenced posts died with it

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5 years 11 months ago #1190 by Court

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null0trooper wrote:
Court wrote: In the Avatar Trait wiki page, the second link of references 1, 3, & 4 all give 404 errors. (The other references only have one link.)

Unfortunately, when the old forum died, a number of referenced posts died with it

Oh. I was hoping that the web pages still existed somewhere. The Wayback Machine (web.archive.org) has over 10,000 pages captured from crystalhall.org, but none matched the numbers given in the links, and how you search in that mess is beyond me. A lot of the later captures are simply 404 errors, which are not useful. A lot of the earlier captures are of real discussions, though.

If the links' destinations no longer exist, the links should be removed, and replaced with something. Was there just one crash, the one referenced in 2011 in references 2 & 5 of the Avatar Trait page, or were there others?

If it was all one crash, then replacing the dead links with "Victim of The Forum Crash of 2011" seems appropriate.

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1191 by Malady

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Well, some of the information can be sourced from elsewhere... Like: whateleyacademy.net/index.php/wa-univers...wers-classifications

----

We have two Mikes, linked under the name, Mike... One from "Jade 1" and the other from "A Glow in the Darkness".

I guess we sort by location of residence or something.

*shrugs*

----

Whooo! 987 Wanted Pages!

crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Want...t=1000&useskin=oasis

----

Anyone against moving "Chilton" to "Chilton Preparatory Academy"?

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Bot: "Kammie Ovalette" to "Kammie Ovellette".

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Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Malady.

5 years 11 months ago #1192 by XaltatunOfAcheron

XaltatunOfAcheron

Posts: 365

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As an experiment, I put the narrative for the demon Kigatilik in the same form as if it was a story, even though it hops around among five different stories.

See how you like it. Comments? Ideas? No go?

5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #1193 by Malady

Malady

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I like it. It presents a good reason for the date headers.

And he's major enough that an "Appearances" section doesn't feel thematically appropriate?

Archives: Rubberjohn's Fanfic + CrystalHall + Mittfh's Wordcount Spreadsheet

My Patreon. But, support the Crystal Hall 1st?

Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Malady.

5 years 11 months ago #1194 by null0trooper

null0trooper

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Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

He's still got a role to play, but it was a pain to find his appearances when I've had to go looking in the past

Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

Discussion Thread

5 years 11 months ago #1195 by XaltatunOfAcheron

XaltatunOfAcheron

Posts: 365

Gender: Unknown

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Just to mention it: we've passed a major milestone in the unceasing task of dealing with the wanted pages list. We are now down to 985! Now at least we know where we are; before it was "more than 1000, but we don't know how much more."

Thanks to Malady for her work in weeding the garden.

5 years 11 months ago #1196 by XaltatunOfAcheron

XaltatunOfAcheron

Posts: 365

Gender: Unknown

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I've just added a geneology diagram to the DeLuca family page.

How do you like it?

5 years 11 months ago #1197 by E. E. Nalley

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Posts: 2005

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Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970

Great job everyone!

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

5 years 11 months ago #1198 by Malady

Malady

Posts: 3893

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XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: I've just added a geneology diagram to the DeLuca family page.

How do you like it?

It's good, I'd center it, but that's all.

Archives: Rubberjohn's Fanfic + CrystalHall + Mittfh's Wordcount Spreadsheet

My Patreon. But, support the Crystal Hall 1st?

5 years 11 months ago #1199 by XaltatunOfAcheron

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Posts: 365

Gender: Unknown

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Status:

I'm pretty sure I've gotten all the Year 2 stories except "A Little R&R 3" done. I may not do that story: I've discussed why I skipped it originally before, and I doubt my reaction to it has changed. If someone else wants to do it, more power to them!

By Year 2 I mean any story that takes place, in whole or in part, on or after August 27, 2007. If I've missed any, please let me know!

The next stage is to finish Gen 2. There appear to be 7 stories outstanding at this time, plus several that seem to need some additional work.

In pub order;

Down the Rabbit Hole (three parts)
Blood Sisters looks like it might need some work
Professional Courtesy
Following the Path 0f Cute may need some work
Would the Last One Out Please Turn Out the Lights.
Dorms of our Lives, Season 3
Reckless Reputations
The Trouble with Karma may need some work.
Evil Genius (3 parts)
Dorms 4 (6 parts)

Of course, I intend to keep doing the regular Monday story within a few days of when it's posted.

5 years 11 months ago #1200 by XaltatunOfAcheron

XaltatunOfAcheron

Posts: 365

Gender: Unknown

Birthdate: Unknown

In the Gen 2 cleanup, I decided to fix all the redlinks and other issues in publication order: the first three weren't all that hard, but Islands in the Sun has brought up three issues:

First is the "Imperial House of Japan". There seemed to be a consensus a couple of months ago that this was the right name for the family page, but nobody created it.

Second is the issue that Malady mentioned: do we want to continue using the Japanese word for Princess, or Princess? Whichever way we jump is going to need some cleanup.

Third is that I may have Princess Kiko and Princess Kako reversed. I think that Kako is the elder, and is involved in running the Japanese equivalent to the DPA, while Kiko is the younger, and is not all that much older than Okami's assumed (rather than real) age.

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