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Malady wrote: ^ - Still one Link to "?" from Absinthe 2...

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So, "Team Awesome" or "Team Awesome!"?

The former has 4 links, the latter has 3.

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So, I guess you guys are happy about my gap pages:

* 1975-12-18
* 1975-12-19

Gonna make a page for " 1995-03 " as my idea on what flashback-only months could be like.

Oh... " 1975-12 " is a thing... Hmm... Still gonna make my version in 1995-03, and then you can decide which is better.

Capping off the ends of date sequences like in 1975 and 1995 isn't a priority, though...

And dunno what to put in "See Also", either. TTYL!

I'll see if I can find the sucker. (The question mark). maybe that ought to be another superhero name, like the Asterisk.

I think I looked at them and didn't have an opinion. I wasn't intending to use them.

I've got an idea for month pages: make them look like a calendar. That would put the whole thing on one screen and probably be a lot easier to navigate rather than the list format we've got now. I may experiment some this afternoon to see how it looks.

The gap pages are OK.
As for Team Awesome!, I like the name better with the bang. It's the sort of thing that kids would do, I guess. If there's canon evidence for the bang being integral to the name (as in Evolution Rocks! and Humanity First!), that's what it should be. With an appropriate redirect for the variant spelling, of course.

I've put a calendar format in the 2007-11 (November) page. See how you like it.

In "The Garden of Good and Evil", two of the references to Team Awesome! have the exclamation marks, one doesn't and the category name doesn't.

Oooh! That Calendar is nice!

Now, if only... Oh... I wonder if "If Statements" can detect if a page exists and activate / deactivate links for dates based on that?

Possibly...

There's ifexist ... But it might trigger Wanted Pages anyway, so that's possibly pointless?

But, could present a message like: "No Story has scenes for the next day".

Oh, nice! That Calendar format, that is.

Yeah, I would say that those occurrences in S&S are pretty clear: there should be an exclamation mark. Team Awesome! includes Miranda, therefore it falls in JG's bailiwick. A JG story with the exclamation mark is pretty solid evidence pro-bang. I'll look into standardizing it in the wiki.

"Winifred von Abendritter" is still a link from " The Big Apple comes with Calamari "...

But "Eisenmadel I" redlinks have also started popping up...

Maybe I'll get into making character pages for the brief mentions / appearances...

I've added a calendar format to the main timeline page. It looks like it might be a little wide for phones, but since I don't use my phone for browsing, I can't check it.

How does it look?

I think I got the last couple of question marks yesterday.

Yeah, there's no more "?" redlinks.

On the calendar, Portrait is getting me the Year column, and months from January to May.

Landscape gets January to October.

It might be better to give years' their own pages, and use lists for that.

The calendar for months likely won't work in portrait on my phone either... But I'm wrong, it does work! Weird. I thought it'd be too long...

... So, for the yearly calendars, it might be that "2007" and other 4 digit year enumerations makes it only hold 6 rows?

Would it help to factor in the 381-day years in effect during the age of the Five-Fold Court and the Sundering?

I tried to shrink the horizontal width by removing every other year on the line.

The thing that concerns me is whether someone using it might lose orientation and click on the wrong box.

Will this work on a phone in landscape mode now?

Not mine, but I got to November...

Well, I took out three more years on each row.

Initially on page load, I saw all the months, but on full load, I got the "D" of "Dec".

I took out the rest of the dates. I really hate to do that because there's too much chance of someone losing orientation and hitting the wrong year.

I might try doubling up the rows next.

It's gonna be a hell of an effort to get through all the stories and finding the dates and noting what happened when.

At times, it's tough for us authors to keep straight who did what when, especially when our stories are not being developed and released on the same timeline, so we always have to search and dig to find out how to weave the different POV stories together. Sometimes, I've been at the point that I would have paid to have it all neatly documented. (if I won a lottery, I WOULD pay someone to do it). In any event, everything the volunteers do to document things helps more than you suspect.

Indeed, as the Bible hasn't been updated in years, I generally start at the wiki when I'm trying to remember something. I suppose now, the only use of the Bible is as a book of secrets for things not yet revealed but already planned. The more complete the wiki is the better.

elrodw wrote: It's gonna be a hell of an effort to get through all the stories and finding the dates and noting what happened when.

At times, it's tough for us authors to keep straight who did what when, especially when our stories are not being developed and released on the same timeline, so we always have to search and dig to find out how to weave the different POV stories together. Sometimes, I've been at the point that I would have paid to have it all neatly documented. (if I won a lottery, I WOULD pay someone to do it). In any event, everything the volunteers do to document things helps more than you suspect.

In case you were responding to my comment about removing the dates: that applied to some work I'm doing to make the timeline indexes look prettier. You'll notice that the gen1 month indexes almost all have calendar format instead of list format, for example. I'm trying to do the same thing to the year index (the page that's linked from the front page), and the table was too wide to fit properly on a phone, even in landscape mode. I was trying to shrink the width by removing the dates from the cells.

There are, by the way, over a thousand wanted pages. More hands are urgently needed.

As far as getting the timeline into shape: I only recently returned to working on it, and I'm estimating that it may take at least two years to get all the stories documented and into the timeline. Assuming I live that long (not guaranteed at this point) and that my interest in working on it continues. More hands would make the work go faster.

One consideration: when I dropped out a few years ago, it felt like a weight had rolled off my back. I was only able to get back to work on it by making an agreement with myself that I wouldn't force myself to reread for summarization any story that really set wrong. I've already encountered one.

Well, you can note the really big errors and someone else might take a look at it and solve it?

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@Sir Lee - Do you have a copy of Silver Linings Chapter 2 Part 2 to 9, but with notes on where each part stops and starts?

Presuming the references from places like "Quinn Seabury" are accurate, then some bits can already be figured out...

The subdivisions of Silver Linings are, frankly, confusing. It comes from the way it was published originally (in that Dark Age when the site was read-only and the authors had to resort to posting stories in the forums). The numbering goes up, then down, then there are chapters without numbers... and there are two November 22nds.

My personal reading copy of stuff might not be 100% faithful to the original -- I tend to do minor editing on stuff that annoys me. But I'm a bit OCD in spots, so I might have kept the original breakpoints as HTML comments inside it. I have to check. It's highly unlikely to include posting dates, however. Let me see...

...OK, no posting dates, but the stories are structured roughly in this way:

- Silver Linings
-- Part 1 (2006-04-11)
-- Part 2 (2006-08-20)
-- Part 3 (2006-10-08)
-- Part 4 (2006-10-17)
-- Part 5 (Begins with the sentence "As the bizarre man sneered"
-- Silver Linings Chapter 2 (2006-11-01)
-- Enter the Madcap (2006-11-09)
-- 3 (2006-11-16)
-- 4 (2006-11-21)
-- 5 (2006-11-22 -- the second 22nd, the one that begins with Stacy getting out of bed and doing exercises)
-- 6 (2006-11-26)

I have no idea why the chapter count in the Wiki goes up to 9; I THINK that whoever did the numbering considered each forum post as a separate chapter, but I chose to consider two consecutive posts in the same day as a single chapter too long to fit in one forum message.

If I had my druthers, I would consider anything from "Enter the Madcap" onwards as a separate story (to be named "Silver Linings 2: Enter the Madcap"), and rename "Chapter 2" as "Part 6". But it's not my decision to make. Also, if Bek were willing to allow for that revision, I would ask for her to have a look at the two November 22nds problem.

Go ahead and edit Silver Linings. I'll stop editing that, and start making other pages.

Like Pike's.

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Note to self. Mrs. Kelling seems to be 1.2, not 1.1...

I'll have to think a bit on how to do that. The writeup itself is just work, and I might use the date system Xalt has been using to reduce ambiguity (and make it easier for migrating to the timeline), but taming the confusing structure will require some creativity.

Should we have redirects for names that lead to Family pages or something?

'Cause that would cut down on wanted pages... So we can just point Angloswen to Absinthe, etc.

I assume that all the Wickhams, such as Belinda Wickham , link to their section of Wickham family ...

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In other thoughts, what should the common ref-name be for "Murphy's Laws Of Whateley"? And is the "Of" capitalized or not? It's got one use with capitals, one without. The story itself has one for the page name, one for the story itself.

I need that reference for Albert Dietrich being "Wulfin the Purifier"'s minion... And Dietrich's own page... At least he's only mentioned in two stories... Murphy's Laws of Whateley, and Blood Siblings.

Oh, could just use "Murphy#"... Oh, it already is used for refs, just under the other name.

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Who is the Phobos's twins' father? .... I guess that was in Blood-Sister, Blood-Brother... I really should get around to using my Story Samples, instead of crafting minor characters...

Yeah, go with the redirects.

As for the capitalization... since canon is ambiguous, I would go with what most style manuals recommend and have a lowercase "of"

I just posted a character page for Roland Williams, code name T-Rex, although I'm not at all sure about the hyphen. I think I'll stick in a redirect for T-Rex to Roland Williams, since that's the most used name.

This is the first character page I've done since I got back, so can someone take a look at it and tell me what needs fixing? Especially categories, which I'm not clear on for character pages.

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Oh~! Here's my copy of Silver Linings 2! Just turn that txt back into an html!

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I gotta figure out when the Astro-Witch's staff starts appearing in Silver Linings...

I'm baffled.

I was working on Phase 1, and converted July and August 2006 to calendar format, but the links aren't working. The day page to day page links are working fine, though, for the exact same dates.

I hope it's just a transient.

I saw the same. Betting its just lag.

Maybe we need to hard refresh, stored up too much cache?

Ctrl+F5. ... EDIT: Yep, that seems to have worked?

So, onto a new topic... Do we make a page for "Heinrich Agrippa", who's mentioned in Silver Linings 1.2, or do we just link to the Wikipedia page for him?

Maybe link to Wikipedia for the person, but make a page for the concept of Agrippas? Which are mentioned in "VEGAS, BABY, VEGAS! Part 6" and "Silent Nacht Chapter 2"?

Silver Linings:

This book is what’s called an ‘Agrippa’, which is a hideous slander on the good name of Heinrich Agrippa, a German occultist. An Agrippa isn’t a Grimoire, which is just a book of spells and occult lore. An Agrippa is a minor demon bound into the shape of a book. Besides occult lore, Agrippas give their owners infernal power to work their magic.

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Also, from Silver Linings 1.3... is Arascham in "Gold Star loves Arascham" supposed to be "Aracham", of "IG Aracham"?

General principle is, if there isn't anything unique to the Whateley Universe in the presentation of the real world person/institution/object, don't bother creating a page, just link to the Wikipedia or other relevant external source.
Even if there is something unique (for instance, named characters who are part of the institution, or some incident in which they played a role), focus our page on those unique aspects, leaving the real-world extensive description to the Wikipedia or other relevant external source. Look at the FBI, DARPA and other government pages for examples.

In the example you cited, I agree with the approach you proposed: new page for Agrippa (as in the type of book), external link for Heinrich Agrippa.

In the sample story page, what's the difference between Stories and Appearances? Or Appearances and Appearance and General Description?

The reason I'm asking is that I've started doing something that's been on my "should do" list for a while: putting references to the stories in the character pages.

Stories, I just use for gathering any reference to the character.

Main, Side Character-ness, and Mentions as well.

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Appearances is for when they actually do something on-screen, so more like "Personal History" or something?

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Appearance and General Description are usually synonymous? ... Maybe use Auto-Sir Lee to standardize?

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You can change the Sample if you think of something good.

Malady wrote: Appearance and General Description are usually synonymous? ... Maybe use Auto-Sir Lee to standardize?

FWIW, I see them as:

Appearance: What does the character look like.

General Description: Whatever else identifies the character (voice, accent, attitude, nervous habits, clothing/vehicle preferences, etc.) I recall a non-WU story in which the fact that one character always wore Shalimar was a clue/point for recognition.

There is some overlap, but the idea was that we used them so that the characters would act the same across appearances, even by different authors. For example, let's take John Leguizamo's Tybalt from Romeo + Juliet. Appearance would be how tall, skin color, the greasy hair cut with those sharply defined side burns and the soul patch beard.

General Description talks about the kind of clothes they are likely to wear, their attitude to life (Peace? PEACE? I HATE the word! As I hate Hell, all Montagues...and thee!) and how the character is portrayed. Make sense?

E. E. Nalley wrote: There is some overlap, but the idea was that we used them so that the characters would act the same across appearances, even by different authors. For example, let's take John Leguizamo's Tybalt from Romeo + Juliet. Appearance would be how tall, skin color, the greasy hair cut with those sharply defined side burns and the soul patch beard.

General Description talks about the kind of clothes they are likely to wear, their attitude to life (Peace? PEACE? I HATE the word! As I hate Hell, all Montagues...and thee!) and how the character is portrayed. Make sense?

In other words, appearance is for quick recognition: for example, Ribbon looks like a 9 or 10 year old girl with long white hair and wearing a "goth Lolita" outfit. General Description is the rest of the characterization, including characteristic phrases: "Pardon my French" and "If wishes were horses, we'd all be wearing hip waders."

That makes a good deal of sense.

Malady wrote: Stories, I just use for gathering any reference to the character.

Main, Side Character-ness, and Mentions as well.

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Appearances is for when they actually do something on-screen, so more like "Personal History" or something?

On-screen, at least to me, means anything other than Mentions. I don't see a difference then between Appearances and Stories except that Stories has a Mentions subsection and it's got a hide/reveal option.

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

Malady wrote: Stories, I just use for gathering any reference to the character.

Main, Side Character-ness, and Mentions as well.

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Appearances is for when they actually do something on-screen, so more like "Personal History" or something?

On-screen, at least to me, means anything other than Mentions. I don't see a difference then between Appearances and Stories except that Stories has a Mentions subsection and it's got a hide/reveal option.

True, Stories should be scrapped since Appearances and Mentions together, would work just as well...

But, if you wanna literally find a story by who appeared in it, there's nothing better...

TTYL. Gonna try and get us to 3500 pages by night's end, mainly through Silver Linings low hanging fruit.

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Made "Mr. Weatherbee" go to Wikipedia, since I think that's a shout out?

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Made "Agrippa", but nothing links to it...

The name of the subtopics (appearance, general description, appearances, stories, mentions) was never standardized. FWIW, I dislike using "Appearance" and "Appearances" simply because they are too similar. "General description" on one side, "Stories" on the other are much less ambiguous.

Is there any source for Gadget and Mega-Death's combat final being December 21, 2006, instead of the day before, the latter which comes from Hive's Christmas Holiday ?

Malady wrote: Is there any source for Gadget and Mega-Death's combat final being December 21, 2006, instead of the day before, the latter which comes from Hive's Christmas Holiday ?

Hive's Christmas Holiday has the final on Dec. 21, 2006, after Sam wakes up with a hangover from drinking with Curly on the 20th.

Here's a weird one. Blood-Sister, Blood-Brother is in continuity, but it's undated. It occurs during summer vacation 2007, but that's as close as it can be dated.

I suppose I could make a guess because it's got internal "Day 1," etc. notes, if I knew when school ended for Summer Vacation.

Where do I put the link in the story indices?

In the Lists by Story Date, there's a section for undated stories?

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To pin down the start of summer vacation, I'd look through the summer stories and see when they start vacationing, and pick the earliest date.

June 10th 2007, as the first day of summer vacation, perhaps? From One Woe Doth Tread Upon Another's Heel ? 'Cause that's the day that Hank leaves Whateley for home?

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Here's a weird one. Blood-Sister, Blood-Brother is in continuity, but it's undated. It occurs during summer vacation 2007, but that's as close as it can be dated.

I suppose I could make a guess because it's got internal "Day 1," etc. notes, if I knew when school ended for Summer Vacation.

Commencement was Saturday, June 9, 2007. (Pomp and Conspiracy)

Tansy, Lanie, and Kayda were out on their road trip Monday, June 11, 2007 (The Boys of Summer, Part 1) That should also be the first official day of Summer Break.

“She’s stopped talking, eating. She stopped talking three days after she returned home."

Fly out to Washington on the 10th, shutdown from the empathic version of sensory deprivation by the 13th,
five days of no bathing to clean up for could put day 1 around the 18th or 19th.

Telekinesis was difficult for some, but hardly a brain-breaker. She’d personally worked with Caitlin on her techniques over the first weeks of summer and found the girl to be brutally ineffective at gross manipulations such as creating fire, or lifting objects.

(Blood-Brother, Blood-Sister)

Underclassmen combat finals were over by June 2 (Odds and Ends). A couple of weeks work takes us maybe to the 16th, give or take.

40 days from the 18th takes us to July 28th. (Blood-Brother, Blood-Sister)

Caitlin's been working a straight week at her forge on August 27th, after a month of preparation (Siblings and Savages) pulling her back in to work at Whateley maybe July 23. Note that Hartford's at her desk, and a teleporter was used for transit,

Kick Day 1 back to June 13, 2007, make the skipped baths start with her travel date and fly Dimes out on the 9th because she has NO mental reserves, and we're good.

Start date: June 13, 2007
End date: July 23, 2007

Thanks to all. I'm not sure about Caitlin's schedule, since we don't know how long the ammunition run should take. Also, freshman and sophomore finals are the week after the combat finals, so they wouldn't get out earlier, although there seem to be a bunch of leave dates that are quite irregular.

I'll see if I can make it work.

Thanks again.

Edit: I just put it against the calendar. If I assume Janine left on the 9th and the Outcasts arrived on the 14th, then Day 40 is July 23. We can probably overlap ordinance and weapons delivery with prep time since Caitlin doesn't sleep, so that fits. Barely. I can shove things down a couple more days by assuming that the "month" of prep time was closer to three weeks, which isn't all that unlikely given the wiggle room people usually leave in phrases like "a month."

So I'll make it June 16 to July 26. That makes the prep time two days short of a 4-week month.

Thanks again.

Edit 2: I'm going to have to back it up at least two days. I just discovered that Carson offered the Imp the job on June 30, so the scene on Day 16 can take place no later than June 29. At least the 30th is a Saturday, which gives a break from the reconstruction being done on Poe and Hawthorn. So it's now June 14 to July 24.

Thanks again.

So, we've got two Firefly-s now. The JH kid from Gen2, and the alumni, the latter who currently has the page ...

We dunno the kid's Class, so what to do?

Hmm. I think the best overall would be to:
a) Rename the current "Firefly" to "Roland Atley", since he no longer uses the codename actively.
b) Fix the original links so they go directly to "Roland Atley" instead of through a redirect
c) Turn the redirect into a "Firefly" page for the student, and add a hatnote to it linking to "Roland Atley."

I can easily do A and B. C is the job of whoever is working on a page for the student.

EDIT: OK, phases A and B are done.

Do we want to consider starting to use disambiguation pages like That Other Wiki?

It's a potential weapon for our arsenal, yes. But it's best used for situations approximately symmetric, that is, when both pages have a good, strong claim to the title. Or for when there are three or more claimants. "Champion" might work as a pure disambiguation, but since we know very little about most of the users of the name, it ended up working better as a general page with possible "see more" links for the specific Champions if and when we get enough material to justify it. Same as "Swashbuckler."

But disambiguations are inherently kludgy, because they add another step into the visitor's navigation. Whenever the situation is such as the current one with "Firefly", with only two claimants and there is clearly one that has a better claim, a hatnote is probably enough.

One reason why Wikipedia uses so many disambigutions is because, due to the size of their database, they had to disable autofill for links. So the editor has to know beforehand the exact name of the page they are trying to link to, and they end up using the most generic link they can conceive. Which more often than not goes to a redirect. With autofill, it's much easier: type "[[Champ" and the editor will offer all the possibilities, if any.

Made the Firefly page.

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Just realized we've got at least a few Darcies.

* The member of the Trix, in Dr. Macabre's Monsters , whose real name is apparently actually Darcy...
* Darcy Blake, Noah Blake's sister, the Junior High Supergirl of the constantly shifting codename.
* Adrian Darcy (Vamp's bio-dad?)
* Father Peter Darcy of the Church.
* Sizzle (Darcy Dreyer)

OK, that might be a good case for a disambiguation page.

Malady wrote: Made the Firefly page.

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Just realized we've got at least a few Darcies.

* The member of the Trix, in Dr. Macabre's Monsters , whose real name is apparently actually Darcy...
* The Junior High Girl of the constantly shifting codename
* Adrian Darcy (Vamp's bio-dad?)
* Father Peter Darcy of the Church.
* Sizzle (Darcy Dreyer)

There is a Gen 2 Darcy as well.

Per Wasamon in the Dorms 4, dramatis personae thread:
Darcy Blake - first canon appearance in Myriad Meetings. Souffle Girl original character. Noah's little sister. Enthusiastic mini-supergirl with codename indecision.

Katssun wrote:

Malady wrote: Made the Firefly page.

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Just realized we've got at least a few Darcies.

* The member of the Trix, in Dr. Macabre's Monsters , whose real name is apparently actually Darcy...
* The Junior High Girl of the constantly shifting codename
* Adrian Darcy (Vamp's bio-dad?)
* Father Peter Darcy of the Church.
* Sizzle (Darcy Dreyer)

There is a Gen 2 Darcy as well.

Per Wasamon in the Dorms 4, dramatis personae thread:
Darcy Blake - first canon appearance in Myriad Meetings. Souffle Girl original character. Noah's little sister. Enthusiastic mini-supergirl with codename indecision.

OH! That's the JH girl's last name! Thank you!

Sir Lee:

I noticed the edit to 2016-08-28. I'm going to change it back because I did it deliberately. That's how I'm handling a sequence that goes through several locations. Giving them separate location headings suggests (to me, at least) that they're separate events that don't relate to each other. That's the usual case, of course.

This may not be the best way of handling it, and I'm certainly open to suggestions, but all the ways I've come up with are ... sub-optimal, in my opinion. suggestions welcome.

OK. I guess I just assumed that, with the incredible volume of contributions you have been adding, it was just some thing that slipped your attention. But if it was deliberate, I have no problem with it.

I'm working on Islands in the Sun, and that story has four scenes that are each in a different year, none of which are in the year and month matrix on the page at the top of the hierarchy. If I simply add the necessary year rows, that's going to make the table even taller and bury the rows that people are most likely to want to see at the bottom.

Anyone have suggestions?

Edit: One possibility that occurs to me is to put miscellaneous month pages in a separate table, three or four per row, and only create a year row when there are several months. Put that below the main year table (there are only four rows, and there are not likely to be more than another couple of rows in the next few years).

As long as I'm here. I've noticed that there are over a thousand wanted pages. I have no idea how many over a thousand: the wanted page list quits at a thousand.

Many of these are for people who have a single mention in one story, and don't appear anywhere else. There's not only nothing interesting to put in a character page, the likelihood that there will ever be anything else to put in a character page is indistinguishable from zero.

One possible idea to handle them: we stick them into alphabet pages. That is, all minor characters whose name begins with "A" goes into, for example, page char-a. However, this has the disadvantage that it would eliminate the ability to use the "links-to" facility, since we'd get all pages with a character whose name begins with A.

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: As long as I'm here. I've noticed that there are over a thousand wanted pages. I have no idea how many over a thousand: the wanted page list quits at a thousand.

Many of these are for people who have a single mention in one story, and don't appear anywhere else. There's not only nothing interesting to put in a character page, the likelihood that there will ever be anything else to put in a character page is indistinguishable from zero.

They could still be of use when a writer needs a list of people appearing in Story X or Location Y, including the extras (They do sometimes get promoted)

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: One possible idea to handle them: we stick them into alphabet pages. That is, all minor characters whose name begins with "A" goes into, for example, page char-a. However, this has the disadvantage that it would eliminate the ability to use the "links-to" facility, since we'd get all pages with a character whose name begins with A.

Page extra-char-a ?

null0trooper wrote:

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: As long as I'm here. I've noticed that there are over a thousand wanted pages. I have no idea how many over a thousand: the wanted page list quits at a thousand.

Many of these are for people who have a single mention in one story, and don't appear anywhere else. There's not only nothing interesting to put in a character page, the likelihood that there will ever be anything else to put in a character page is indistinguishable from zero.

They could still be of use when a writer needs a list of people appearing in Story X or Location Y, including the extras (They do sometimes get promoted)

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: One possible idea to handle them: we stick them into alphabet pages. That is, all minor characters whose name begins with "A" goes into, for example, page char-a. However, this has the disadvantage that it would eliminate the ability to use the "links-to" facility, since we'd get all pages with a character whose name begins with A.

Page extra-char-a ?

Many of the stories do seem to have all the extras listed in the character section, although many don't. I've been adding some comments on each character, but most stories don't have that.

Location pages are an interesting idea. It certainly could be useful, I keep track of it in the timeline date pages, but those are summaries that don't necessarily mention all spear-carriers. My impression is that there aren't a lot of location pages.

"2007-08A" can be deleted now, as it's not needed to handle wrong links now.

While I'm scanning the forum, I keep reading this thread.


You guys are doing a thankless, endless task and doing it as well as it can be done. Thanks at least from me.

Thank you!

And at least to me, we get thanked frequently enough that it doesn't feel thankless!

Thanks!

Malady wrote: "2007-08A" can be deleted now, as it's not needed to handle wrong links now.

Done!

Xalt, I did some minor revision to the text in the timeline master index, so the visitor can understand what your are doing. But in doing that, a thing struck me:

There are quite a few off-main-timeline stories yet to be added. Some of them fall in the period between Gen1 and Gen2 -- Would the Last One Out Please Turn out the Lights, The Hand You're Dealt, Islands in the Sun (ok, this one is already there), flashback scenes in the Loophole/Wicked Gen2 stories, Tears and Fears, Rises the Sun... and this time period will tend to get more and more explored as time goes by. Which would make the "off-timeline" section less and less understandable as it grows.

I would suggest, as a rule of thumb, that as soon as any year has a set number of month pages, it gets moved to the main timeline table. Personally, I would go with two.
Alternately, we could use a number of stories rule -- as long as there is only one story linking to that particular year, it can stay in the "special cases" section; if there are two or more stories using that year, it gets moved to the main table.

Sir Lee wrote: Xalt, I did some minor revision to the text in the timeline master index, so the visitor can understand what your are doing. But in doing that, a thing struck me:

There are quite a few off-main-timeline stories yet to be added. Some of them fall in the period between Gen1 and Gen2 -- Would the Last One Out Please Turn out the Lights, The Hand You're Dealt, Islands in the Sun (ok, this one is already there), flashback scenes in the Loophole/Wicked Gen2 stories, Tears and Fears, Rises the Sun... and this time period will tend to get more and more explored as time goes by. Which would make the "off-timeline" section less and less understandable as it grows.

I would suggest, as a rule of thumb, that as soon as any year has a set number of month pages, it gets moved to the main timeline table. Personally, I would go with two.
Alternately, we could use a number of stories rule -- as long as there is only one story linking to that particular year, it can stay in the "special cases" section; if there are two or more stories using that year, it gets moved to the main table.

Thanks for organizing the master index.

Yeah, I've been trying to balance a number of concerns: not polluting the "wanted pages" list with unused month pages; keeping the two tables small enough to be manageable; making navigation on the main year table easier. The latter could be a problem because the years are over on the side where it's easy to lose orientation while the cursor is skating along.

So I think I'm going to suggest YAGNI (You Aren't Going to Need It - from Extreme Programming), and simply revisit the idea when the special cases table starts getting unmanageably large.

Part of the navigation issue is that I was trying to squeeze the main table so it would be visible on a phone, at least in landscape mode. Didn't quite make it. The navigation issue can also be revisited when I starts to bite.

I expect we'll need the 2008 row sometime in the next couple of months.

So, we don't have many / any characters whose names start with "The", right?

I'm looking through all the pages that start with The :

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So, " The Occultist ", should be moved to just "Occultist"? The latter is Wanted, and a redlink, right now.

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Then, we have both " The Keeper ", and " Keeper "...

The Sphincter took a step back, gasping as though I’d just hit him. “No… I am the mysterious…the awesome…the incredible…”
“The long winded,” I added cheerfully.
“Asterisk,” he finished, giving a sweeping bow.

Not much available on The Chaldean.

Tough call. It's like when fans debate if you should call Bruce Wayne's heroic alter ego "The Batman" or just "Batman". We might need a few rules of thumb here, just for triage.
Anyone around who is a grammar geek?

OK, I copied the ones who are characters (or similar -- consider The Tao) from that page. Here is the list:
The Bastard
The Chaldean
The Don
The Green Ghost
The Keeper
The Kodiak
The Mamba
The Man Called Vengeance
The Necromancer
The Occultist
The Palm
The Peddler
The Purifier
The Specter
The Tao

I would say that "The Don" and "The Man Called Vengeance" should keep the "The", because, well, it's quite likely that they made a point of including the article in their official MIDs -- The Don because without it it sounds like the nickname for a cartoon duck, and The Man Called Vengeance makes a point of demanding that people use the full name.

There's a possible disambiguation usage -- "Kodiak" (the student) and "The Kodiak" (the spirit) are the poster boys for this usage. Generally speaking, most of the cases of "The" in the wiki are for cases where you wanted to drive home the point that this is a specific character, instead of "a" {class of people}. Therefore, THE Necromancer, THE Occultist, THE Bastard, THE Peddler, THE Specter (as opposed to "a" necromancer, "an" occultist, "a" bastard, "a" peddler" or "a" specter).

I don't think there's much justification for keeping the definite article for The Chaldean (really, how many people from Chaldea are there walking around?), The Green Ghost or The Mamba.

Still, quite a few edge cases.
The Palm? Considering that there's an in-universe usage for "a" Palm, maybe it's justified. Or maybe it's just incorrect?
The Keeper? We don't know that much about him/her...
The Purifier? It's a redirect to Wulfin the Purifier, so I guess it's OK.
The Tao? Maybe to make it clear that we are talking about the entity, not the religion.

As an aspirant to language geekhood, I'll simply say that I know of no simple rules for whether to use the definite article with a proper noun. Why, for example, is it Manhattan and The Bronx? Here's a university's student advice article on the subject for people who learned English as a second language: writing.umn.edu/sws/quickhelp/grammar/articlesproper.html . Note the large number of specific cases and the caveat at the end.

In the list above, while I could quibble about a number of the items, the only one I'd say to leave the definite article out is Green Ghost, unless the stories specify it as the correct usage.

In a side issue, I'll note that they use Longman's Student Dictionary. That has one interesting feature which the half dozen or so other language learner dictionaries don't: the defining vocabulary has an on-line resource that builds vocabulary from the ground up, starting with cartoons for the 65 semantic primes (that is, words that have the exact same meanings in all analyzed languages). That's at learnthesewordsfirst.com

Sir Lee wrote: I don't think there's much justification for keeping the definite article for The Chaldean (really, how many people from Chaldea are there walking around?),

Some of his contemporaries are still alive and interacting with people. Of these various immortals, he's the Chaldean one.

Planned "Darkling Horde" page... I feel I could work on the phrasing, It's weird since it's not a person...

Ugh. I assume "Naishinno Kako" is in Eastern Name order, and Western would be Kako Naishinno, with her mother being Kiko Naishinno, and her father being Fumihito Naishinno...

Now I gotta fix that, after my computer resets...

Although, should it actually be, "Naishinno Kako" as the main one, and "Kako Naishinno" as a redirect, or are we going by Western Order always?

Malady wrote: Although, should it actually be, "Naishinno Kako" as the main one, and "Kako Naishinno" as a redirect, or are we going by Western Order always?

Kasai Tetsuko is listed in "Japanese name order" and Wong Ah Lam in "Chinese name order", but the evil old guy is listed as Tatsuo Ito.

I've been going by what the story says, and MageOhki has been using Japanese name order. However, I think either way will be confusing to someone.

I suspect we're going to need to simply pick one, stick to it and specify which we're using in the character pages and sections.

Since Tatsuo Ito is probably the most referenced by a wide margin, I suspect we're going to be stuck with Western name order.

Sigh.

I would go with the most common form for the character's page, and add redirects to the alternate form -- and list both forms in the character page top paragraph. Also include the name in the CJK writing systems if available. For instance, we have Tatsuo Ito as the page because he is seldom referred to as "Ito Tatsuo", but we should add a "Ito Tatsuo" redirect. When the character is usually referred to in the Oriental name order, like for Princess Kako, do the reverse. The idea being to minimize the use of redirects: the name an editor or visitor instinctively uses should point directly to the correct page.

Yeah, I know, as far as standardization goes it's crap. But I prefer to have the wiki adapt to the characters rather than force the characters into the wiki mold.

Makes sense. Although forcing the characters into the mold has a certain evil attraction.

Anyway, Hikaru has a code name, so that's the obvious main page. If I understand, there should then be two redirects: one for Hikaru Myoujin and one for Myoujin Hikaru? Although the latter may turn out to be a disambiguation page since there are two Myoujin's in the story (Hikaru's great-grandfather).

Actually, at least three: Hikaru Myoujin, Myoujin Hikaru and Daniel Moate (the first one already exists). It's worth creating those redirects, because even if they aren't explicitly used in links, the wiki editor autofill uses them to pop up the correct link. Also, searches by the wiki visitors.

"Myoujin Hikaru" wouldn't be a disambiguation because her grandfather is named Ichiro.

(EDIT: I went ahead and created a few redirects and clarified the name order in a few entries)

Looks at all of you, repeats what he had said earlier...


Oh, for more humor.

Kako can also be Yamoto Kako, Princess Kako, do you want me to go on? (I hear the cries already...)

I actually added a redirect from plain "Kako", simply because I was too lazy to look up her full name every time I wanted to do an edit. Now I start writing "[[Kako" and the wiki editor automagically fills it up with "[[Naishinno Kako". And it's not like we are expecting homonym problems... I mean, it's not "Thomas," "Richard", "Harold" or "Sally."

Ooof...

We've / I've got to replace all "Carlisle" with "Carlyle"... Done. And the former only appears in the Advancer series...

And what to do about Reinforce / Adam Carlyle? Is it a spoiler that he's Reinforce? Should his real name redirect to Reinforce?

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Now I gotta refresh on what we said about stories with names like "Glyph 3: Ink in Her Veins"...

Going from the Imp stories, we do keep the character's name...

But, we actually haven't decided... It's just that no changes have been made... It's basically "Maker Decides". ... Well, we can keep putting it off... Don't like that, but not really urgent as of yet...?

Malady, I went to the trouble of figuring out how to register a bot exactly for those sort of wholesale replacing/editing cases. Next time, just tell me, I'll gladly do it for you...

Regarding Adam/Reinforce: I don't think it's much of a spoiler, no. He's a minor character in Gen1, but he's the brother of a known mutant, so the likelihood that he will activate is rather high. I did add a redirect from "Adam Carlyle" to "Reinforce," but I think that in this particular case we shouldn't edit the Gen1-related pages to point directly to "Reinforce" -- instead, let them route through the redirect.Two reasons:
1. It makes it easier to tell apart the pages that refer to the Gen1 kid from the ones who refer to the Gen2 mutant teen if, for instance, we want to do some wholesale edit to one set but not to the other.
2. It only acts as a spoiler if the visitor actually clicks on the link; mouse-hovering does not give away the codename.

A few updates for the Gen 2 student list:
crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_2016_Student_List

The first appearance of the Bohemians leadership in Gen 2 is IDTWIKA, Part 5.

All live in Melville, as far as we've been shown, but we'll need some clarification from Wasamon or Souffle Girl on the spellings here.
Karel Lorenc (IDTWIKA 5) or Lorencz (Dorms of Our Lives 4). M
Jane (IDTWIKA 5) or Janet (Dorms 4) Chorley - Knock-Out
Melisande (IDTWIKA 5) or Melanie (Dorms 4) Shinall - Glam

Not sure what cottage:
Jenifer Chalmers - Scarlyt, officially named in Dorms 4, Part 5.

Do we have any uses for the categories and templates that are Wanted?

Can we just scrub those redlinks?

Templates wanted are mostly stuff that Wikia adds without asking. I don't think it's possible to get rid of them other than actually editing those pages.

Categories wanted might be categories that we are already using but haven't got around to add a description to the page yet.

Found another "Ruby"... We've got "Ruby (Scale?)", Sapphire's sister, and "Ruby (Rascomb?)" connected to "Ted Rascomb"...

Are they sufficiently similar in the lack of information, for "Ruby" as a disambig?

Malady wrote: Found another "Ruby"... We've got "Ruby (Scale?)", Sapphire's sister, and "Ruby (Rascomb?)" connected to "Ted Rascomb"...

Are they sufficiently similar in the lack of information, for "Ruby" as a disambig?

Probably? Only Ruby Scale gets an appearance.

There's also Dolores Gardner (code name "Ruby Boots") working as the Wichita Warriors in "Eisenmadel: Summer of My German Heritage"

I've got a reference named "Adore", for something called "'Oh come on. Loreli? Really?" on 2007-08-27 ...

That ring any bells? @XaltatunOfAcheron, since you added it?

Yes, that's Adore. The comment is a bit of snark - I presume you've read the Heaven and Hell stories. if not, most of them are in the Library, (There are three missing from the library. Sigh.) They're great fun.

Which ones aren't in the Library? To the best of my knowledge, there are 12 Heaven & Hell stories:
1- Heaven and Hell: The Recruiter (Maggie Finson)
2- The Ways of Power (Maggie)
3- Angelique - A (Hell) Maid's Work is Never Done (Maggie)
4- Balancing Act (Maggie)
5- Third Party Hardy (Bek D. Corbin)
6- Joy to the World (Bek)
7- Rebecca's Tale (E.E. Nalley)
8- Wedding of the Century (E.E.)
9- Lilith's Ransom (Maggie)
10- Tails of Shadow (Starwolf, unfinished story)
11- Lucifer's Daughter (Dr. Bender)
12- There's Always Hope (Hope Eternal Reigns) (personally, I didn't like this one very much)

Most of those should be available on Sapphire's, if they aren't available here. Some of them might be found in BigCloset or Fictionmania too.

On a completely separate note, expect a lessened level of contributions on my part over the next couple weeks. Holidays with the family, and stuff. I should be able to touch base daily or almost so, but not actually _do_ as much as usual -- I didn't bring my own computer (I don't own a laptop, I find them very uncomfortable for daily use and I don't travel enough to justify the expense of a second computer) so I'm sharing one here. But yes, I did bring AutoWikiBrowser (the wiki 'bot) in my portable drive, so I probably can do wholesale changes if requested. On the plus side, maybe I'll manage to finish the beta-reading I promised to a writer (I have it in my phone, in an annotation-capable program).

Sir Lee wrote: Which ones aren't in the Library? To the best of my knowledge, there are 12 Heaven & Hell stories:
1- Heaven and Hell: The Recruiter (Maggie Finson)
2- The Ways of Power (Maggie)
3- Angelique - A (Hell) Maid's Work is Never Done (Maggie)
4- Balancing Act (Maggie)
5- Third Party Hardy (Bek D. Corbin)
6- Joy to the World (Bek)
7- Rebecca's Tale (E.E. Nalley)
8- Wedding of the Century (E.E.)
9- Lilith's Ransom (Maggie)
10- Tails of Shadow (Starwolf, unfinished story)
11- Lucifer's Story (Dr. Bender)
12- There's Always Hope (Hope Eternal Reigns) (personally, I didn't like this one very much)

Most of those should be available on Sapphire's, if they aren't available here. Some of them might be found in BigCloset or Fictionmania too.

There are only six in the library: 1-4, Lilith's Ransom and Lucifer's Daughter, which I presume is # 11. In other words, all of Maggie's and Dr, Bender's. Bek, Starwolf, EE and whoever wrote the last one either haven't chosen to put them in the library, or haven't gotten around to it. And I haven't heard of two of them (10 and 12)..

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: Which ones aren't in the Library? To the best of my knowledge, there are 12 Heaven & Hell stories:
1- Heaven and Hell: The Recruiter (Maggie Finson)
2- The Ways of Power (Maggie)
3- Angelique - A (Hell) Maid's Work is Never Done (Maggie)
4- Balancing Act (Maggie)
5- Third Party Hardy (Bek D. Corbin)
6- Joy to the World (Bek)
7- Rebecca's Tale (E.E. Nalley)
8- Wedding of the Century (E.E.)
9- Lilith's Ransom (Maggie)
10- Tails of Shadow (Starwolf, unfinished story)
11- Lucifer's Story (Dr. Bender)
12- There's Always Hope (Hope Eternal Reigns) (personally, I didn't like this one very much)

Most of those should be available on Sapphire's, if they aren't available here. Some of them might be found in BigCloset or Fictionmania too.

There are only six in the library: 1-4, Lilith's Ransom and Lucifer's Daughter, which I presume is # 11. In other words, all of Maggie's and Dr, Bender's. Bek, Starwolf, EE and whoever wrote the last one either haven't chosen to put them in the library, or haven't gotten around to it. And I haven't heard of two of them (10 and 12)..

These five are linked to the stories on Sapphire's Place, on the wikia pages for the authors, and on the Links page ( crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Links )

5- Third Party Hardy (Bek D. Corbin)
6- Joy to the World (Bek)
7- Rebecca's Tale (EE)
8- Wedding of the Century (EE)
10- Tails of Shadow (Starwolf, unfinished story)

12- There's Always Hope (Hope Eternal Reigns) may only exist on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20150514031902/http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/47677/heaven-and-hell-theres-always-hope

Katssun wrote: A few updates for the Gen 2 student list:
crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_2016_Student_List

The first appearance of the Bohemians leadership in Gen 2 is IDTWIKA, Part 5.

All live in Melville, as far as we've been shown, but we'll need some clarification from Wasamon or Souffle Girl on the spellings here.
Karel Lorenc (IDTWIKA 5) or Lorencz (Dorms of Our Lives 4). M
Jane (IDTWIKA 5) or Janet (Dorms 4) Chorley - Knock-Out
Melisande (IDTWIKA 5) or Melanie (Dorms 4) Shinall - Glam

Not sure what cottage:
Jenifer Chalmers - Scarlyt, officially named in Dorms 4, Part 5.

Whoops.... <_<
Let me fix that in Dorms. (i.e. use the earlier attested names)

Where is it shown that Adore is Gender-complicated? Or is that WoG?

Malady wrote: Where is it shown that Adore is Gender-complicated? Or is that WoG?

She's the Hawthorne participant among the students that Mrs. Carson asked the Outcasts to show around because every other one of them had switched genders (just like Caitlin, Sandra, Jack, and Monica.)

^ Thanks! The Story page made it seem like it was a GSD and/or TG tour. Gonna fix that.

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So, my Adore Draft seems pretty complete, anyone got anything to add?

whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/the-...wiki?start=680#61203

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Since she's with the other Gen2 froshes, can we assume Rapunzel's in the class of 2020?

On people with titles and only one name, do we go "PFC Killian", or just "Killian"? The latter exists, but I've made "SSgt Rawlings" because there was a redlink for it.

Also, we have pages like "Major Burghoff" and "Mr. Layton".

I added pages for Pahelee and Shifty (and thanks to Malady for fixing the references and such for the former, I tried to copy that for the latter but messed it up I think). I also redirected the redlinks for Team Awesome! to the category page, and added some descriptive text to the category page as well.

I have a proposal for a page which I don't see on the site yet. I was hoping some of the CC (TINCC) might look over my proposed page before I post it.

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Power Sense
Power Sense, also call power detection or (at the higher levels) power analysis, is the ability to sense when someone possesses superhuman abilities, and in some cases, the nature and capabilities of those abilities. The mechanics of how the power operates vary, with some people having the ability needing physical contact while others are able to use it at a distance.

It is a relatively rare powerset. It is in at least one instance associated with the Power Mimicry powerset, which can make the latter far more efficient and formidable if used effectively.

Individuals known to possess Power Sense
* The Marquis
* Assay

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Does anyone have any objections or additions to this?

I love that the Gen 1 year 2 page of dated stories is being updated.
(Dated Stories - AY 2007-08)

It is missing these great stores I love - Envy and the Gilded Cage (Part 1,2,3) by Dr Bender
and - The Final Trump (Part 1,2,3,4,5) By Bek D Corbin and DanZilla
Plus a lot of others

I would add them if I knew how (I am bad with computers).

If some who know how could please please add these stories or some other gen 1 year 2 stories it would be the most wonderful christmas gift

Thank you Merry Christmas

By the way, those drafts I keep putting up, anyone can instate them.

Adore seems basically complete...

Darkling Horde, I'm not sure on the phrasing, since we've never had groups of uniform entities that seems to have overarching goals, and not spiritual...

Rapunzel has that "Roulette 3" redlink, which makes me not want to post, but it can always be fixed later...

And I've got a Weaponeer draft I'll edit into here, tomorrow.

What is this draft thing you speak of? (Checks that all the windows are closed. Yep So that's not it).

Seriously, does the Wiki have a draft feature? Where is it?

Eh?

Go to the previous page and search for "Draft". You should find a spoiler box with Wiki code inside?

jenny wrote: I love that the Gen 1 year 2 page of dated stories is being updated.
(Dated Stories - AY 2007-08)

It is missing these great stores I love - Envy and the Gilded Cage (Part 1,2,3) by Dr Bender
and - The Final Trump (Part 1,2,3,4,5) By Bek D Corbin and DanZilla
Plus a lot of others

I would add them if I knew how (I am bad with computers).

If some who know how could please please add these stories or some other gen 1 year 2 stories it would be the most wonderful christmas gift

Thank you Merry Christmas

It takes quite a bit of work to make a decent story page, and you're welcome to do that if you want, We'll be delighted to help!

As far as Envy and the Gilded Cage is concerned, while it's a great story, it doesn't have any dates, so it's not going into the Gen 1 Year 2 index. It can go into the undated stories index, though. Even so, the existing story page doesn't have a narrative summary, so simply putting it into the index isn't going to help all that much.

When will that happen? I'm primarily concerned with the timeline, so I simply skip undated stories. Someone else will do it, or it isn't going to get done. I'm currently working forward alternating Gen 1 and Gen 2 stories. I suspect that I'll finish Gen 2 sometime in February or March, and Gen 1 sometime in 2020. It simply takes around 5 to 8 hours to do a story.

I know this isn't what you'd like to hear. If you want to see if there's a story page (and there are a number of story pages that aren't in the index) simply click on Search and enter the name. If it's there, it will be in the drop-down before you've finished typing the name.

Envy is already listed in the "List of Canon Stories" or something, under Undated.

Check WhatLinksHere.

Thanks for all your hard work! Wow, 6-8 hours per story!

Malady wrote: Envy is already listed in the "List of Canon Stories" or something, under Undated.

Check WhatLinksHere.

Thanks for all your hard work! Wow, 6-8 hours per story!

It's listed in the List of Canon Stories, which is by release date. However, for some reason, the code is "Fino" rather than "Envy". I had to go back snd forth a bit before I matched release dates and discovered that was what it was listed under.

As far as how much work it takes per story, that depends on story size. I start by reading the story to get a feel for it. Then I reread section by section and create a short paragraph for each section for inclusion in the timeline. Then I go through a third time to get characters. The three reads are what takes the time.

Now that I've got all of that on scratch pages in my text editor (Textedit in Mac OS), I put together the story page, then the links from the sortable indexes, and finally the actual timeline pages. This is, by the way, why story pages I create look like I've simply listed the timeline pages in order. That's exactly how I work. I create the story pages as side effects of creating the timeline for a story.

For the undated story "The Final Trump", it looks like the story begins Thursday, March 6, 2007, and ends Saturday, March 15, 2007.

The Onsen visit is on a Friday, and it comes two weeks after the events of "Saks and Violence" (Which needed to be on the originally published dates. Jobe's engagement party makes more sense on the 4th, when everybody had to be back for class the next day, than on the 25th when anyone who planned on travelling would have already left.)

Part One: Thursday - Monday
Part Two: Monday & Tuesday
Part Three: Wednesday & Thursday
Part Four: Friday, a couple of weeks after Jobe is thrown in jail in NYC.
Part Five: Saturday, JJ's 15th Birthday

Edit for a couple of date problems:
* Jadis is mentioned as hitting the news last Spring Break (although her luck does seem to run that way)
* The next problem is reconciling Serafina arriving at JJ's birthday party. There was an incident involving the Strega in Massachusetts "a few weeks ago", but Envy's story starts in mid-May, three days before prom. (Then again, like Roulette, "Envy and the Gilded Cage" may not have been the first time Fino had been Fina)

Wasamon wrote:

Katssun wrote: A few updates for the Gen 2 student list:
crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_2016_Student_List

The first appearance of the Bohemians leadership in Gen 2 is IDTWIKA, Part 5.

All live in Melville, as far as we've been shown, but we'll need some clarification from Wasamon or Souffle Girl on the spellings here.
Karel Lorenc (IDTWIKA 5) or Lorencz (Dorms of Our Lives 4). M
Jane (IDTWIKA 5) or Janet (Dorms 4) Chorley - Knock-Out
Melisande (IDTWIKA 5) or Melanie (Dorms 4) Shinall - Glam

Not sure what cottage:
Jenifer Chalmers - Scarlyt, officially named in Dorms 4, Part 5.

Whoops.... <_<
Let me fix that in Dorms. (i.e. use the earlier attested names)

Also whoops, but I forgot the answer the other question. Scarlyt is a Whitman girl, hence why her first mention (Dorms 3?) is by Tanya, warning the others to avoid her.

@Sir Lee - We need to change "Pierce Randall" to "Randall Pierce".

whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/spec...-widening-gyre#61135

OK, will look into it. Shouldn't be too hard...

(Edit) And done!

So, for the April Fools stories that didn't get a page up...

A.k.a "The Revelation", "28 Fools Later", and "I Looked into the Abyss... and it Winked - April Fool's Day Edition"...

Do we just have a page like "Knife in the Ribs"


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Hmm... Since "The Revelation" or something wasn't posted 'cause it was NSFW... Since we're ad-less now, can't it be reposted?

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Any reason not to cut the "The Garou of Ragnarok" link from "Telchines' Astrolabe", since it's only right now related to "Lycarax"? Or turn it into a redirect to Lycarax's "The Garou of Ragnarok" section?

Malady wrote: Any reason not to cut the "The Garou of Ragnarok" link from "Telchines' Astrolabe", since it's only right now related to "Lycarax"? Or turn it into a redirect to Lycarax's "The Garou of Ragnarok" section?

Voting for redirect. There's a huge "pull the other leg, it's got bells on" factor with this one.


... says the guy who played a Modern Orthodox Get of Fenris kinfolk in one game.

Stories' posting times seem to be in Greenwich Standard Time...

That's why they're all a few hours off from me, in my EST?

Is the right time, -5 hours, or 4? Or should we using GST for the Wiki?

I'm thinking it's -4, so Golden Angel part 3 is on Monday, just so I have something to put.

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Also, we sticking with "Dec Xth" names for the sections? Not making any such, so whatever.

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@Null - Well, I've no preference, so if you wanna wait for more opinions, or take the initiative, go ahead.

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It seems we've got the Wanted pages almost under 1000, since the list appears to go in reverse alpha-numerical order, so the dates are listed last...

EST is -4 hours from GST
EDST is -5 hours from GST

From the recent references in "SGGA", it sounds like the 'official' dates for the start of "Envy and the Gilded Cage" are getting reset to early November 2006; this will probably mean changes to the story itself, with the dance being Homecoming instead of Junior Prom.

Do either Branwen or Bek have any comments on this?

Malady wrote: It seems we've got the Wanted pages almost under 1000, since the list appears to go in reverse alpha-numerical order, so the dates are listed last...

As far as I can tell, when I do Special:wantedpages, it's in sort of random order, with the dates scattered throughout. There are blocks of a few dozen or so in alphabetical order, but that's it. Is there a setting somewhere to make it alphabetize the output?

It seems ordered by # of Links to Page, then inside that, it goes Category, Template, and MediaWiki: types pages, then reverse alphabetical, then presumably reverse numerical.

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Should it be "Valcar", or "Valcar the Damned"? I'm thinking the former?

Oh, and another thing, do we need a page covering "The Code of the Honorable Outlaw", and if so, how would it be stated? I have a general idea about it, but I think that since it is Bek's baby, they need to at least go over anything we put down about it before posting it, or even make a draft for it.

My starting proposal for it:

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The Code of the Honorable Outlaw is a general set of principles agreed to by many (but by no means all) supervillains, and apparently tacitly supported if not explicitly promulgated by The Syndicate. While it seems to have several formulations, being largely a set of unstated understandings, it mostly boils down to

• Don't bring family into it if you don't have to. Hitting someone's family as revenge will get everyone against you.
• Don't buddy-fuck; if you make an agreement with another Honorable Outlaw, do your best to keep it, unless they backstab you first.
• Don't be too greedy; take what you need, but not so much that the LEOs and superheroes come down on you too hard, as that can turn up the heat for everyone else.
• Don't be excessively vicious; things like torturing people in public or killing civilians for no good reason brings the heat down too hard, and others will get splashed with it.
• Don't play with fire; deals with people known to do those the things listed above is almost certain to backfire, one way or another.
• Keep your eyes open but your mouth shut; snitches get stitches.
• Play nice with the Syndicate and the Syndicate will cover your back. Screw over the Syndicate, and you may not live long enough to regret it.

While a number of supervillains have mentioned it, it does seem to be honored in the breach more than anything. As Jadis Diabolik puts it:
“Standard of professional conduct?[ ...] No, it’s more like Organized Crime: it’s a business, and nobody wants to do business with someone who’s too fucking greedy or rabid, but on a very real level, you have to watch your back. They put a polite face on it to make doing business possible, but it’s still dog-eat-dog.”

Schol-R-LEA wrote: From the recent references in "SGGA", it sounds like the 'official' dates for the start of "Envy and the Gilded Cage" are getting reset to early November 2006; this will probably mean changes to the story itself, with the dance being Homecoming instead of Junior Prom.

That's the major event for (US) public schools. St. Andrews might have an Oktoberfest or end-of-term/St. Andrew's Day event.

Malady wrote: It seems ordered by # of Links to Page, then inside that, it goes Category, Template, and MediaWiki: types pages, then reverse alphabetical, then presumably reverse numerical.

Ah, that seems to be it. So the tail end is now single references to dates. I wouldn't be too surprised if a lot of them are mistakes.

Malady wrote: Should it be "Valcar", or "Valcar the Damned"? I'm thinking the former?

Remember the de facto working language is English, learn from the SCA's early headaches, and go with the latter, as the binomial form of: given name(Valcar) + byname(the Damned) reduces the likelihood of needing more disambiguation pages because the One Steve Limit isn't in play. Plus, some people may not remember anything more than Somebody the Damned.

"Valcar" just happens to be a Scottish surname, which makes it fair game for use as a given name.

null0trooper wrote: EST is -4 hours from GST
EDST is -5 hours from GST

Just the opposite, actually. Also, correcting the acronyms:
Eastern Standard Time (EST) is UTC-5
Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) is UTC-4.

UTC (Coordinated Universal Time/Temps Universel Coordonné -- the acronym was deliberately chosen as a compromise, so it does not match either the English or French names) replaced Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) for most purposes, although it's almost the same.

So, move Necromant, to "Xenomar the Necromant"?

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Also, do we link cities? 'Cause we've got 3 wanted links for Cincinnati...

Malady wrote: So, move Necromant, to "Xenomar the Necromant"?

That would be consistent, though there should be fewer Necromants than Damned.

Then after a couple of years of relative peace, Buffy the Necromant enrolls as a freshman...

Malady wrote: Also, do we link cities? 'Cause we've got 3 wanted links for Cincinnati...

If we don't have a page for Chicago or St. Louis, maybe not?

For the bot, change all "Drama" links to "Drama Queen"?

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What's the source for Techwolf's mom, being named Marilyn?

Malady wrote: For the bot, change all "Drama" links to "Drama Queen"?

I think Drama is actually her code name, but people call her Drama Queen for obvious reasons. I don't know why anyone would deliberately choose Drama Queen as a code name because of the negative connotations, but then teenagers aren't always that rational.

Yeah, that's pretty much the reason I hadn't changed any of those previously. I'm waiting for some sort of canon evidence or Word of God on that subject: whichone is the official codename and which one is the nickname?

Any thoughts on my "Code of the Honorable Outlaw" entry proposal?

I suppose it's a referenced enough concept to get its own page. Even though we can't cite a lot for it?

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I assume we make pages similar to Frostbite 's for characters who are named the same but not 100% clear on being the same character? Like Slipstream of "Vegas, Baby, Vegas" and "Brief Glimpses"... or "Star Witch" of the latter and the Silver Ghost series?

And also for Edgar Goodkinds? One from "The Last Ride" and the from "Ayla and the Mad Scientist" and "Silver Linings"?

Sir Lee wrote: Yeah, that's pretty much the reason I hadn't changed any of those previously. I'm waiting for some sort of canon evidence or Word of God on that subject: whichone is the official codename and which one is the nickname?

Here it is, from "A Little R&R 2":

I turned to glare at Drama, or as a lot of people had begun calling her, Drama Queen. It wasn’t meant to be a compliment.

Bethany Farrow was a mousey brunette girl, who wasn’t much at all to look at. But in spite of that, she acted as though she was the prettiest and most popular girl in school, and since she was an empath, and could manipulate people’s emotions, she sometimes got other people to go along with this delusion. I was pretty sure there were rules against doing that kind of thing at school, but whether anyone had reported her or not, I had no idea.

I had a reason for not making Abe Shinzo a Wikipedia reference. He takes part in a fair number of stories and deserves his own entry to catalog them at a minimum. That's where the Wikipedia entry should go.

OK. Page renamed & updated, links updated, and a category fix while I was at it.

As for Prime Minister Abe, yes, since he has a somewhat active role in the story, the appropriate course would be to make a Wiki page for him and have a Wikipedia link in that page. We have done that for institutions that are somewhat different in the WU than in the "real world", such as DARPA and the CIA. I think we might have to do one for a certain Donald J. Trump, because I remember someone in the Cabal mentioning that he is one of the Whateley trustees in Gen2. But so far that has not been confirmed. Oddly enough, I can't remember any mention at all about there being an election for POTUS in Gen2... and that's second half of 2016!

Wait, "Abe Shinzo", or the reverse? 'Cause "Shinzo Abe" has more links, and is also Wanted.

Gonna leave it for the bot.

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Sir Lee wrote: I think we might have to do one for a certain Donald J. Trump, because I remember someone in the Cabal mentioning that he is one of the Whateley trustees in Gen2. But so far that has not been confirmed.

Confirmed in A Wellspring of Sorrows , instead of just Forums WoG:

Not having that much time to waste I let myself drift on and I even learned quite a bit about the history of the school. I mean, who would expect people as varied as Stephen Hawking and Donald Trump to be on the Board of a private high school for mutants

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Also, we calling Art 1 and 2 from Imp 4.1, In the format of "Art 1", or "Art I"? Latter is the link in the classes list, but former is what's stated in story, in Imp's speech.

Sir Lee wrote: Oddly enough, I can't remember any mention at all about there being an election for POTUS in Gen2... and that's second half of 2016!

They're being cagey on that - though it has been hinted in the forums that neither Obama nor McCain was elected POTUS in 2008, and that whoever did win that year wasn't re-elected in 2012.

Should Emperor Brainard's "Quarantine Dimension", get its own page? Or just redirect to its section on "Amazing Three"?

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Also, can anyone find "Helena Smart" on "Wanted Pages"? 'Cause if we're reaching the end of the Wanted Pages, she should be on there, but I can't find her...

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What do we name pages for those with contracted middle names? Like "Something L. Something" of Ayla 3 ?

Notes: He's Aries' parents' bank's vice president, and "who happens to have a gambling problem and that he just happens to owe $37,450 to the Wapina Reservation Casino".

Malady wrote: Also, can anyone find "Helena Smart" on "Wanted Pages"? 'Cause if we're reaching the end of the Wanted Pages, she should be on there, but I can't find her...

Does this work?

crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Helena_Smart?veaction=edit&redlink=1

null0trooper wrote:

Malady wrote: Also, can anyone find "Helena Smart" on "Wanted Pages"? 'Cause if we're reaching the end of the Wanted Pages, she should be on there, but I can't find her...

Does this work?

crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Helena_Smart?veaction=edit&redlink=1

Yes, I can make the page if I want to, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong on "We've almost got Wanted Pages under 1000!", since I can't find Helena Smart on the list, and she should be there, since she is Wanted...

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For the bot: Move "Guardian Mother" to "Mere de Tuteur" or perhaps, "Mère de Tuteur"?

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There's also a "Monkeywrench II", which seems to refer to the character currently in "Monkeywrench".

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Redirect "Pierre Hicks" to "Warhorse"?

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Malady wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

Malady wrote: Also, can anyone find "Helena Smart" on "Wanted Pages"? 'Cause if we're reaching the end of the Wanted Pages, she should be on there, but I can't find her...

Does this work?

crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Helena_Smart?veaction=edit&redlink=1

Yes, I can make the page if I want to, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong on "We've almost got Wanted Pages under 1000!", since I can't find Helena Smart on the list, and she should be there, since she is Wanted...

Well, I put 17 filler pages into the timeline last night to extinguish that many wanted pages. The naive view suggests that it should have shrunk the wanted pages to where we could see daylight at the end.

What actually happened is that the single-link timeline pages have simply vanished off the end - and it shouldn't have - there should still be several dozen. And - there are still a thousand wanted pages.

The recent pages list doesn't suggest adding that many new wanted pages, so whatever it's doing, it's not building a complete table, sorting it and then truncating it at a thousand.

Well, I spawned some new links, due to editing Charge 1... But yes, it seems like some new links have popped up, from somewhere...

Perhaps tomorrow will reveal newer insights on how the Wanted Pages work...

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In other news, where is Mach-5 said to be a Whateley Alumnus?

Malady wrote: Well, I spawned some new links, due to editing Charge 1... But yes, it seems like some new links have popped up, from somewhere...

Perhaps tomorrow will reveal newer insights on how the Wanted Pages work...

How about today? The following is over the top of the Admin Wanted Pages report:

The following data is cached, and was last updated 10:33, December 28, 2018. A maximum of 1,000 results are available in the cache.

So, we don't actually know how many pages there are, only that its more than 1000. Sorry guys.

E. E. Nalley wrote:

Malady wrote: Well, I spawned some new links, due to editing Charge 1... But yes, it seems like some new links have popped up, from somewhere...

Perhaps tomorrow will reveal newer insights on how the Wanted Pages work...

How about today? The following is over the top of the Admin Wanted Pages report:

The following data is cached, and was last updated 10:33, December 28, 2018. A maximum of 1,000 results are available in the cache.

So, we don't actually know how many pages there are, only that its more than 1000. Sorry guys.

Yes, but we've removed all of the (1 link) date pages, which should leave pages starting with "A" at the bottom of the list, but somehow, the last entry is "Indigo Sorceress"... Meaning that there's likely 1-link pages from H to A, remaining...

Then there's the "Last Ride" redlink dates of September 1874, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 24th...

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I really should link Helena Smart somewhere, since she appears often... And then we'll see if she shows up.

E. E. Nalley wrote:

Malady wrote: Well, I spawned some new links, due to editing Charge 1... But yes, it seems like some new links have popped up, from somewhere...

Perhaps tomorrow will reveal newer insights on how the Wanted Pages work...

How about today? The following is over the top of the Admin Wanted Pages report:

The following data is cached, and was last updated 10:33, December 28, 2018. A maximum of 1,000 results are available in the cache.

So, we don't actually know how many pages there are, only that its more than 1000. Sorry guys.

Yeah, we know about the limit of a thousand entries. The discussion is more about the algorithm. The way it sorts the pages, the one-link date pages should be at the end, so when Malady looked at it a few days ago, and there were a lot of one-link date pages at the end, it looked like we were seeing daylight. However, that's only true for a naive algorithm that builds a complete table, sorts it and then chops it at 1000.

It appears to be doing something more complicated, but we won't really know until we quit putting new wanted pages in there for long enough to get a few dozen pages off the list.

Since I'm putting new story pages out there pretty much daily, I'm probably as guilty of making new wanted pages as ce is.

Malady wrote: I really should link Helena Smart somewhere, since she appears often... And then we'll see if she shows up.

She shows up or is mentioned in multiple stories, but I think there's only one outgoing link.

^ - On the Wanted Pages list, I mean, but whatever.

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So, we calling the Teacher's Village, "Village", or "The Village"... And it seems like nothing discusses that location, not even "Whateley Academy"...

I'll have a look at the various requests for bot-editing/renaming/redirecting. But I think we should leave a redirect from "Guardian Mother" to "Mere de Tuteur" (although I'm pretty sure that name is broken French; "Mere de Tuteur" sounds to me like "Mother of the Guardian", not "Guardian Mother". Google Translate agrees with me, and gives "Mère Gardienne" as a French translation for Guardian Mother. Some fiddling around gave "Mère Tuteur" as an acceptable translation for "Guardian Mother.")

I think I'll ask Elrod directly if we can treat that "de" as a typo and call the character "Mère Tuteur", before renaming the page.

(Interestingly, when I was fiddling with Google Translate, it suggested I might have misspelled "Mère Tueuse"... which is "Mother Slayer". Holy Buffy Summers, Batman!)

The wanted list is updated only once a day, as E.E. has pointed out. When we create a wanted page, it remains in the list until the next refresh, just crossed out, and the end of the list does not move up.

Oh, and I think The Village does deserve the "The". "Village" by itself sounds too generic.

I thought Imp's stories defined it as "The Village" and its location in relation to the school. That or Laura and the Village did.

Katssun wrote: I thought Imp's stories defined it as "The Village" and its location in relation to the school. That or Laura and the Village did.

I meant that no Wiki page discusses it.

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And I meant that is we were right in that we almost got Wanted Pages down under 1000 pages, we should've seen it today, but no...

The Village is a relatively recent addition to the canon -- previously nobody bothered to say where the teachers and staff lived. We knew that Carson lived at Whateley House, Mahren had a flat in town, and that both Ms. Grimes and Mr. Anderson lived somewhere in campus, but that was about it. So, back when we were doing campus maps and writeups for the campus buildings, it was not included. It's On The List...

So, my current plans are to extract "The Village" definition from some of the stories mentioned, and plop in it "Whateley Academy".

Or should it be its own page?

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For the bot: Change "Clarkson (Sheriff)" links to "RL Clarkson"?

And / or have a "Sheriff Clarkson" redirect?

I think there's enough going on the Village to merit its own page. For starters, there is the Rocky & Bullwinkle themed bar and restaurant, the general layout of the place, and then there is the possibility of listing the residents by house...

Oh! And I heard from Elrod, he's OK with calling "Guardian Mother" just "Mère Tuteur" and ignoring the "de" as a typo. I think I'll leave a redirect or three in place, just in case...

And another thing: I went to add some info to the Elizabeth Carson page and noted an Easter Egg from the authors...
Liz's first marriage was to Dr. Arcane, whose surname was Stevens.
They had a daughter named Samantha.
Now, Dr. Arcane was a mystic. Liz developed magical powers. And they have a daughter named Samantha Stevens...

I wonder if she looks like Elizabeth Montgomery?

Sir Lee:

I notice you added the subtitles to the sections in Summer of my German Heritage. You do realize that existing links to those sections will no longer find the correct section? In fact, they'll probably get the corresponding section in the Characters.

I left the subtitles off deliberately when I made the story page, just so that the references wouldn't get absurdly long.