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6 years 3 months ago #801 by E. E. Nalley
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: It's mostly for the links to the character pages and to keep things straight. So should the references to Tansy (as Elaine) be "Wicked|Mrs. Cody or "Wicked (Hero)|Mrs. Cody"", and should the references to Jennifer Kelly be "Wicked (Villain)|Jennifer Kelly". Or what? I presume Tansy, as Tansy, is still Solange.

    Or should we make a redirect for "Elaine Cody" that goes to a page that untangles the snarl? Or maybe "Wicked (Solange)" would do to keep things straight.

    Now that I think it through, I think "Wicked" for Lanie, "Wicked (Solange)" for Solange as Lanie and "Wicked (Villain)" for Jennifer Kelly.

    I am, by the way, putting spoiler tags on the front of the summaries to make sure people actually read the stories before looking at the summaries.


    Yeah, this is one of those snarls that are great as you read them when they come out, but as time goes on, the line for where do you not want to spoil for a new reader gets awkward. That solution probably works, however, is this a candidate for our first disambiguation page? As of NOW, the vast bulk of the information about Lanie is in her Loophole ID, but as things go on, that will change. What are folks thoughts that way?
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #802 by Sir Lee
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    • Malady wrote: Bot: "James Tyson" links to "Chicken" 'cause that's his codename, apparently.

    More like a callsign than a codename... I wonder if he got tagged with it as a reference to Tyson Foods?
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #803 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • While we're on the topic of "the Sorrows of Red October," there's something puzzling me. Jennifer Kelly supposedly wakes up on October 2, 2014, while Wicked supposedly died a full year previously. Is the year wrong, or is there some nefarious plot twist we're not supposed to know about?
    6 years 3 months ago #804 by null0trooper
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: While we're on the topic of "the Sorrows of Red October," there's something puzzling me. Jennifer Kelly supposedly wakes up on October 2, 2014, while Wicked supposedly died a full year previously. Is the year wrong, or is there some nefarious plot twist we're not supposed to know about?


    IIRC, her recovery took months.
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    6 years 3 months ago #805 by Sir Lee
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    • Actually, "Solange" supposedly died a full year previously. But that's a quibble.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago #806 by E. E. Nalley
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    • She was in a coma for a year regenerating from 3rd degree burns over about 90% of her body and damage from the explosions. Yes, exemplars are VERY hard to kill. ;)
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #807 by Malady
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    • PRIORITY:

    Need to fix my Whisper screw-ups:

    Move "Hoffman (Wizard)" to "Daniel Alexander Hoffman"

    Move "Thole" to "Jacob Thole".

    Merge "Dave Johannson" into "David Johannson"...

    Merge "Edmundson" into "Allen Edmundson"...

    ----

    Doctor Crawford Tillinghast Link change [ Click to expand ]


    Possible moves or redirects. [ Click to expand ]


    Possible moves [ Click to expand ]


    ----

    Toybox Link, or not? [ Click to expand ]


    ----

    Notes to self [ Click to expand ]


    ----

    Okay, Wanted Pages now seem to refresh itself right on the 24 hour mark... Coincidence, or programming, I dunno. What I do know, is that I should change "Barker (triangle)" to "Barker (Triangle)".

    And that the gap where the (1 link) section stops being reverse-alphabetical, is smaller now! It goes from "Mrs. Russo‏‎" to "Dr. Prado (Camp LeMay)‏‎". Meaning we're slowly getting under 1000 Wanteds.
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    6 years 3 months ago #808 by Sir Lee
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    • OK. I had a look on the Whisper thing. It was actually a bit worse, because there were a few duplicate pages that had to be merged... but it's all fixed now.

    I bot-did the relinking for Tillighast (Malady was correct, the links shouldn't have included the "Doctor" in the link) and created the page as Malady requested.

    Re moves/redirects: most of those are not really necessary. Unless middle names are so frequently used that leaving it out would be a source of confusion (nobody calls the Cosmos astronomer "Neil Tyson", it's always "Neil Degrasse Tyson"), or it's the most practical way to distinguish between quasi-homonimous characters, they are a bit of a hindrance. First and last name are usually enough, the middle name can be put in the writeup.

    Cases to be considered:
    Killian -- maybe not to PFC Killian, but to "Killian ([organization])" unless we don't have anything better than his being an Army PFC.
    Cecil B. DeVour - Maybe, should have a look into the occurrence to see whether "The Mad Director" is a codename-like usage.
    Mrs. Cantrel - I tried asking the author of the first occurrence if "Debbie" was short for "Deborah", but I don't remember getting a conclusive answer. So... maybe?
    Earth Mother -> This one makes a lot of sense.

    Removing the Toybox link makes sense, it seems just a single-use nickname. At most, is should rate a redirect to the appropriate page at the L.A. County Sheriff's office or at the Wayside County Lockup.
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #809 by Malady
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    • Thanks so much, Sir Lee!

    I'm gonna fix the redlinks on Whisper (Story)...

    ----

    Thoughts on L.A.N.R.L.U.N.M. [ Click to expand ]
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #810 by Malady
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    • Double post since it's been a day:

    Do we use "Doctor" for codenames, and "Dr." for occupation names? Or should it be "Doctor" or "Dr." for both?

    Maybe should move "Brenda Koshnick" to "Brenda Koshnik", since the latter is the one given in her scan from Part 3 , and it's how it's spelt in the latter parts.

    Certainly should move "Wharheit" to "Wahrheit", since the former is a typo.

    ----

    Note to self: Today's 852 is "Dr. Kjellsson‏‎ (1 link)", and thankfully for me, he only seems to appear as a brief mention in Elle 1.1
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    6 years 3 months ago #811 by Sir Lee
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    • For a professional title, since it shouldn't be part of the entry title/link, either form is OK.

    For codenames... it's complicated. Mainly, I go with the form the author most associated with the character prefers, possibly with a redirect for the alternate form.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago #812 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I think I've got it for the Wicked perplex.

    Elaine Nalley and then Elaine Cody has been using Wicked as her code name since the Freya incident. The fake Villain ID for Wicked has existed for the same time. The Loophole ID was returned to the school.

    So:

    Rename Loophole to Elaine Nalley and make Loophole, Jennifer Kelly, Wicked and "Wicked (Villain)" redirect to it. They are, after all, the same person. Revise to handle the switches.

    Rename Solange to Tansy Walcutt and make both Solange and "Wicked (Solange)" redirect to it. I don't know what we want to do with the Dauge ID, but I think this will let us handle it easily. Revise to handle the switches.

    This means that Mrs. Cody switches between the two, but any other solution seems to be more complex and confusing.

    Does this make sense? Comments? Questions? Brickbats?
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #813 by Sir Lee
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    • I'm still struggling with what would be the best name for the Lainie page, but redirecting all IDs to "Elaine Nalley" could work.

    As for Solange... I don't know that she ever actually used the handle "Wicked". AFAIK, she has spent the time since Lainie's "death" impersonating Elaine Cody, her friend/co-wive, in her role as wife and mother -- but not really in her "superhero" role. So, I don't know if "Wicked (Solange)" is even a good description. Perhaps "Mrs. Cody (2014)"(*) could be a good description?

    (*)or whenever the swap took part, I'm not looking at the story right now
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #814 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • The thing that's been nibbling at the back of my mind, and not in a good way, is this: who's using what MID card? Tansy can't be using the Solange MID card - that would give the game away instantly. She has to be using the Wicked MID card since that was Elaine Cody's card, and it's what everyone would be expecting, Do MID cards have biometrics? If so, that would make the switcheroo impossible unless they managed to forge another card - and without Amelia in on the conspiracy, that's probably not possible.

    And that, of course, brings up the question of what's up with the "inactive" designation. Since mutants have to have a MID, how can it be inactive? Unless it's reissued with whatever color border (brown?) that's used for MIDs that are neither heroes, villains or students.

    Anyway, enough rambling on that subject. Since the proposal, a couple of things clarified. The Jennifer Kelly redirect would go to a (sub)section in the Elaine Nalley page. The same thing would be true for the Solange as Mrs. Cody identifier, whatever that turns out to be. It would go to a subsection on the Tansy Walcutt page. The only place I see a disambiguation needed is on the Cody family page, where the Elaine section has to have something that distinguishes Mrs. Cody before and after October 2, 2013.
    6 years 3 months ago #815 by null0trooper
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: The thing that's been nibbling at the back of my mind, and not in a good way, is this: who's using what MID card? Tansy can't be using the Solange MID card - that would give the game away instantly. She has to be using the Wicked MID card since that was Elaine Cody's card, and it's what everyone would be expecting, Do MID cards have biometrics? If so, that would make the switcheroo impossible unless they managed to forge another card - and without Amelia in on the conspiracy, that's probably not possible.


    Yes, MID records use biometrics:

    Ayla and the Tests wrote: Most of the information was stuff I couldn’t parse, like fingerprints and footprints, DNA patterns, Kirlian signature and psychic imprints, details of her bone structure, and several sets of public key encryption strings.  I knew the public key encryption systems were used so that the MCO agent in the field would have a handy way of checking that the information on the card hadn’t been forged or altered in any way.


    Without biometrics, there likely wouldn't have been a way to identify Jennifer Kelly as the inactive villain Jennifer 'Wicked' Kelly instead of Elaine (was 'Loophole', used 'Wicked' while the earlier Wicked was gone fishing) Cody ...

    Laura and the Village wrote: "Have you heard tales yet about a student called Loophole?" Vanessa continued.
    Laura's eyes bulged forth and her jaw dropped. "You're ... Loophole?" she stammered. "Everyone talks about you ... you're a ... a legend!"


    ... who went by the name 'Wicked' after Kelly dropped off the face of the earth. No one's asked what Elaine Cody's code name is in 2016 after Wicked was reverted to the Jane Doe matching Jennifer Kelly's biometrics.

    And that, of course, brings up the question of what's up with the "inactive" designation. Since mutants have to have a MID, how can it be inactive? Unless it's reissued with whatever color border (brown?) that's used for MIDs that are neither heroes, villains or students.


    Folks, it's not the individual piece of plastic that matters, it's the unpronounceable alphanumeric string identifying a set of records held by the MCO that matters. The lump of plastic is a replaceable physical token bearing that (hopefully) unique ID that's a hell of a lot easier and quicker to use than collecting and transmitting biometrics every time someone needs to access those records. The code name is changeable because it's only an assumed-unique attribute of the record set, not the records nor the system's internally-generated ID itself.

    More than one of those alphanumeric strings may match strikingly similar sets of biometric records with all sorts of stories attached. Why? Aside from the existence of clones, temporary or permanent, sovereign governments don't give a damn about any UN NGO's record integrity when it comes to protecting their own witnesses or national security. Those are court cases that the MCO isn't going to win. Period.

    "inactive" just means Not Active. Think about it: mutants are required to identify themselves when crossing borders or using certain types of transportation. If a record doesn't get accessed after a certain amount of time, the owner isn't moving around much. That isn't positive proof the owner is dead, just an indication that no one is actively using it. It could have been fictional paper that isn't getting used again. It could belong to a clump of slime in a sunken submarine. Either way, it should have the same border when printed out today as it did the last time it was printed out, unless there was a reason to change it.

    As a footnote, "Dague" was an attribute attached to a set of records kept by the Syndicate that includes Tansy Walcutt's biometrics.
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    6 years 3 months ago #816 by Anne
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: The thing that's been nibbling at the back of my mind, and not in a good way, is this: who's using what MID card? Tansy can't be using the Solange MID card - that would give the game away instantly. She has to be using the Wicked MID card since that was Elaine Cody's card, and it's what everyone would be expecting,

    I think you're overthinking this a bit. Tansy as she appears in gen two is using Elaine Cody(Nalley)'s ID. She is impersonating Loophole, that is the ID she is using. So long as she remains within the law no one will question that as she appears to be Elaine Cody to the Mark 1 eyeball.

    Do MID cards have biometrics? If so, that would make the switcheroo impossible unless they managed to forge another card - and without Amelia in on the conspiracy, that's probably not possible.

    And that, of course, brings up the question of what's up with the "inactive" designation. Since mutants have to have a MID, how can it be inactive? Unless it's reissued with whatever color border (brown?) that's used for MIDs that are neither heroes, villains or students.

    I agree with Null on this. The most likely scenario that I can imagine is that Elaine Nalley/Cody was carrying the 'Wicked' ID when she suffered catastrophic injury. Having no other information to go on that was who they addressed her as during her recovery. Therefore she has been living as Wicked since she returned to consciousness.


    Anyway, enough rambling on that subject. Since the proposal, a couple of things clarified. The Jennifer Kelly redirect would go to a (sub)section in the Elaine Nalley page. The same thing would be true for the Solange as Mrs. Cody identifier, whatever that turns out to be. It would go to a subsection on the Tansy Walcutt page. The only place I see a disambiguation needed is on the Cody family page, where the Elaine section has to have something that distinguishes Mrs. Cody before and after October 2, 2013.

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    6 years 3 months ago #817 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Null 0: thanks for the clarification.

    There are still problems. There are two Wickeds in both the DPA's data base and in Hero Watch's data base. They appear to be identical, but nothing has raised an alarm, which I presume that DPA should have done.

    To maintain the charade, Mrs. Cody has to have a physical card that says "Wicked", or whatever she was using before. That can't have suddenly changed. Now, what and how that connects to the MCO and DPA data base is open to question, but the actual name on the physical card has to be the same.

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    6 years 3 months ago #818 by Anne
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Null 0: thanks for the clarification.

    There are still problems. There are two Wickeds in both the DPA's data base and in Hero Watch's data base. They appear to be identical, but nothing has raised an alarm, which I presume that DPA should have done.

    To maintain the charade, Mrs. Cody has to have a physical card that says "Wicked", or whatever she was using before. That can't have suddenly changed. Now, what and how that connects to the MCO and DPA data base is open to question, but the actual name on the physical card has to be the same.

    Gotta run, church is calling.

    Really there are not two Wickeds. What you are seeing is an entry for the same person in two separate data bases. In the DPA data base she shows up as a sometimes criminal, more likely a third way person who is apt to not identify as a heroine but does occasional acts that are heroic, at the same time she may have a rather lose interpretation of personal property, especially if said property belonged to someone who she had a beef with.
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #819 by Malady
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    • "Marissa Dawson Walcutt" should be moved to "Marissa Walcutt", since "Dawson" is her unmarried name, not her middle name, which is "Abigail"...

    ----

    And today's Wanted Pages seem to go reverse alphabetical, until 997, which jumps to "Jack B Quick", from "Mali Tojirakarn‏"...

    So, given that we know about ~150 more Wanteds, an estimate of ~1200 Wanteds seems accurate...
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #820 by Sir Lee
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    • Malady wrote: "Marissa Dawson Walcutt" should be moved to "Marissa Walcutt", since "Dawson" is her unmarried name, not her middle name, which is "Abigail"...

    Actually, I think she reverted to her maiden name after Tansy rescued her. I would go with "Marissa Dawson" as page title (with full name expanded in the first paragraph), with redirects from "Marissa Walcutt" and "Marissa Dawson-Walcutt" (note the hyphen) if necessary.
    (I don't think she got to the "Marissa Donner" stage even by Gen2);)
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #821 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Ok, and bear with me if I miss some things, but I'll try to clarify all this.

    Let's start with the bio-metrics. Physically, Tansy and Elaine are very similar, which aids in this. Both girls are five feet eleven inches tall, with the same hip, inseam measurements and shoe size. Lanie is a cup size larger than Tansy and about five pounds heavier. Otherwise, they are so close that Elaine can wear Tansy's tailored pants and the girls share clothes quite a bit. As far as mannerisms and such, as you started to see in Dague de L'esprit Part Two that the two girls begin to explore each others minds extremely deeply. Even Kayda and Debra are startled at how easily Tansy 'becomes' Elaine in The Haunting of Jennifer Kelly Part Two. The physical aspects (finger prints, even eye retina patterns) her scent and the like are handled by Kayda's disguise spell. Once the spell is recast Tansy is basically indistinguishable from Elaine. The only difference is if you had a sample of Elaine's DNA it would not match, but who has eight months for a complete DNA comparison? ;) However, both girls are O+ blood type if anyone is curious.

    Now, the two entries in the databases. Hero Watch is just a crowd site, edited by those obsessed with mutants, good or bad. It is rather like Wikipedia as it tries to be self regulating and there are mods and admins, but the entries are made by the general public. There is speculation that Wicked (Villain) became Wicked (Hero) on the pages, but as both have dropped out of the lime light, short of a reporter directly asking, its a matter of speculation.

    As for the DPA database, this is what happened. Wicked (Jennifer Kelly) in the database is significantly older than Elaine is, to both make her an 'adult' as well as fill in the 'back story' that she was an accomplished thief who was pinched and went straight. In 2016 'Jennifer Kelly' was 32 but Elaine was only 26. So, in 2009, when Elaine graduated she told the classifier that she wanted to be know as Wicked. The classifier checked the database and found that the Wicked (Jennifer Kelly) MID had been issued, but had not been used in over five years (even though it was significantly newer, Ms Hartford IS one of the best hackers in the world, after all). Because the ID was idle for more than five years, it was split into Wicked (Hero) Elaine Nalley and Wicked (Villain) Jennifer Kelly. The DPA isn't in the business of trade marking these IDs after all, and as far as the MCO is concerned, if two mutants want to fight about a name, that is one, possibly two less mutants and lovely PR for them. See the entry for Monolith...

    When the badly damaged MID was finally read and the comatose and burned Elaine was given the name Jennifer Kelly, Wicked (Hero) had long since retired to be a mother and a teacher. Thus Wicked (Villain) became Active by the ID and Wicked (Hero) was marked Inactive.

    Make sense? (I hope!)
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    6 years 3 months ago #822 by null0trooper
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Null 0: thanks for the clarification.

    There are still problems. There are two Wickeds in both the DPA's data base and in Hero Watch's data base. They appear to be identical, but nothing has raised an alarm, which I presume that DPA should have done.


    Hero Watch can do whatever they want to with their data stores. Hopefully they hired someone competent who'd know better than use code_name as the primary key, but the project probably started out as some fan's spreadsheet and the focus is only on who's doing what right now.

    Please try to remember that names of people and organizations can and do change, and that properly-designed systems of records will account for this . The DPA's database would have two or more sets of records that hold a start- and end- dated code name attribute that is set to "Wicked" for non-overlapping dates. This should never be a problem.

    XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: To maintain the charade, Mrs. Cody has to have a physical card that says "Wicked", or whatever she was using before. That can't have suddenly changed.


    NO.

    Tansy and Elaine swapped physical cards in 2013, and Kayda magically swapped their biometrics to match.

    The physical card that Elaine was carrying blew the f--- up with her. It does not exist. The magic smoke leaked out and it is pining for its native fjords.

    ( Before anyone asks what would have happened if Elaine made it out in one piece: Tansy would have given her hers back and then went to the appropriate office to request a replacement for the one that slipped out of her purse while on the yacht last weekend.)

    At this point, there is no Tansy Walcutt to be found anywhere, therefore she is the person who died to save millions. The official records tagged code_name: "Solange", start date: 2005-11-23, end date: null are updated for end_date: 2013-10-01.

    Jane Doe gets found. We "know" she can't be Tansy Walcutt because an EX-2 couldn't have survived that disaster.

    Jane Doe's biometrics get cross-checked against inactive records. No one in their right mind would look for a match among active records first, instead of various lists of missing persons. Whether it's the DPA, MCO, or the Tooth Fairy doing the checking, her characteristics best match a set of records, created around Elaine Nalley's biometrics back in 2007, that happen to have the text string "Wicked" in a code name attribute for <start date> to 2009.

    Elaine Nalley adopting the code name "Wicked" when she graduated has no bearing on Jennifer Kelly's records, except to close out J. Kelly's use of the code name.

    Ergo, Jane Doe is Jennifer Kelly, the previous holder of the code name Wicked. Since she had not formally released the name (unlike Envy), Mrs. Elaine Cody in New Hampshire is notified that the name has been reverted to the previous holder: please come in at your earliest convenience to be issued a new card with a new code name. Jennifer Kelly is also issued a replacement card, red border and all.
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    6 years 3 months ago #823 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Thanks, EE, Null 0

    To get to the meat of the matter: we're digressing.

    The original issue was to figure out how to organize the Wiki to handle the tangle of identities. For Wiki purposes, we have to be able to distinguish Mrs. Cody(Elaine) from Mrs. Cody(Tansy). That's it.

    At least, that's it from my proposal's perspective. That's why I originally used "Wicked" and "Wicked (Solange)". "Wicked (Villain)" is no longer really necessary - we can go back to "Jennifer Kelly" easily enough since both uses of Jennifer Kelly go back to Elaine Nalley - they can be distinguished in Elaine Nalley's character page if necessary.

    The rest is interesting, but it's beside the point from the Wiki perspective. I'm not going to go any farther down that rabbit hole.
    6 years 3 months ago #824 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Sir Lee wrote:

    Malady wrote: "Marissa Dawson Walcutt" should be moved to "Marissa Walcutt", since "Dawson" is her unmarried name, not her middle name, which is "Abigail"...

    Actually, I think she reverted to her maiden name after Tansy rescued her. I would go with "Marissa Dawson" as page title (with full name expanded in the first paragraph), with redirects from "Marissa Walcutt" and "Marissa Dawson-Walcutt" (note the hyphen) if necessary.
    (I don't think she got to the "Marissa Donner" stage even by Gen2);)

    Khali in Mourning wrote: You know, it's funny. I always thought Melvin Donner hated my guts, but he's turned into a surrogate dad for me. God, I wish sometimes my real father had been half the man he is. I don't have many friends and he's helped me through a lot, been the kind of friend, mentor and sparring partner every man should have. I was honored to be the best man at his wedding.

    And weren't the two of you radiant as Ms Dawson's brides' maids?


    Oh, and since it came up on the Cody Family page, Wyatt Junior and Connie were born on October 23,2009, so they are about to be 7.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #825 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Sir Lee, E.E.

    Sir Lee, thanks for creating the Cody family page - it's much better than what I was contemplating doing.

    E.E., thanks for the info on when the Cody twins were born. I've updated the Cody family page with that and several additional links.

    I've also created links to it from the main character pages.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: Add note about creating links
    6 years 3 months ago #826 by E. E. Nalley
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    • null0trooper wrote: Ergo, Jane Doe is Jennifer Kelly, the previous holder of the code name Wicked. Since she had not formally released the name (unlike Envy), Mrs. Elaine Cody in New Hampshire is notified that the name has been reverted to the previous holder: please come in at your earliest convenience to be issued a new card with a new code name. Jennifer Kelly is also issued a replacement card, red border and all.


    This is exactly what would have happened if 'Jennifer Kelly' ever appealed her Red Band status, which Red Banders can do once they have discharged their sentences and probation. But as she is so afraid of confronting her past, she has kept the replacement MID that was delivered to the Hospice while she was still in a coma.

    But, since she is content to stay Red Band, ie Villain, there is no trigger for two Wicked (Hero) IDs.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago #827 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • On my proposal for how to handle the Elaine/Tansy swap on the Wiki. My understanding of the current status is that Sir Lee isn't entirely happy with renaming Loophole to Elaine Nalley, but thinks it could work.

    Several people have issues with using "Wicked", "Wicked(Solange)" and "Wicked(Villain)" as ljnks. OK. "Wicked(Villain)" is probably unnecessary, since "Jennifer Kelly" will probably work fine for that link, and is the least likely to cause confusion. I threw out "Mrs. Cody(Elaine)" and "Mrs. Cody(Tansy)" in the last post, but there has been no feedback.

    So. The proposal as it stands now:

    1. Update the Loophole page to bring it current, including merging relevant information from the Wicked page, saving the picture - it's very nice. Create a section header for the Wicked(Villain) ID. Jennifer Kelly will redirect to this (step 3).

    2. rename Loophole as Elaine Nalley.

    3. Create redirects for Loophole, Wicked, Jennifer Kelly and "Mrs. Cody(Elaine)" to the Elaine Nalley entry.

    4. Revise the Solange page to bring it current.

    5. Rename the Solange page to Tansy Walcutt.

    6. Create redirects for Solange and "Mrs Cody(Tansy)".

    7. Fix the pages that have entries for "Wicked(Solange)" and "Wicked(Villain)" to be "Mrs. Cody(Tansy)" and "Jennifer Kelly".

    I think that will do it.

    Comments? Problems?
    6 years 3 months ago #828 by Sir Lee
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    • Seems workable. Item 7 would involve a lot of boring, soul-crushing work by a human... or a few minutes of bot-powered edits. So, send me the requirements for that part at the appropriate time and I'll take care of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago #829 by Sir Lee
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    • E. E. Nalley wrote: Oh, and since it came up on the Cody Family page, Wyatt Junior and Connie were born on October 23,2009, so they are about to be 7.

    Hmm, let me see... most twins are born premature, with average pregnancy duration for twins being around 35 weeks... means they were likely conceived around late February.
    Graduation (Lainie is Class of 2009) is in early June, meaning that Lainie probably had the beginnings of a bump (three and a half months) under her gown. She cut it mighty close, but it's just believable enough that she managed to hide her pregnancy.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago #830 by E. E. Nalley
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    • I would say the truth is always stranger than fiction, but this is all fiction. Hmmm. How about, there is something you are not taking into account in your calculations, Sir Lee. This is a universe with super heroes and magic.

    And that's (probably) all I have to say about that. (For now)

    :evil:
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #831 by Malady
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    • Yeah, I was thinking "Magic Fast Growing / slowed pregnancy".

    ----

    Magno-Man's dead, as of The Sorrows of Red October , do we put him in Deceased?

    ----

    Why are we calling Ligeia, a Class of 2008? 'Cause I'm thinking she could be Cassandra Wagner, if not for that...
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #832 by Katssun
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    • E. E. Nalley wrote: I would say the truth is always stranger than fiction, but this is all fiction. Hmmm. How about, there is something you are not taking into account in your calculations, Sir Lee. This is a universe with super heroes and magic.

    And that's (probably) all I have to say about that. (For now)

    :evil:


    One, maybe two things here:

    1) We know exemplars are "supercharged" regarding their...physical needs. But we actually haven't seen a full term pregnancy from an exemplar within a story. Gene-meddling Nazis, yes. The Cody twin and Karma would be the firsts I suppose. The pace of an exemplar's pregnancy could be completely different. That, and we already know the Kodiak meddles with Lanie and her hormones...

    2) All women are different, and some simply don't show. We recently had a coworker who didn't look even vaguely pregnant until she was well within her third trimester. She's very fit too.
    6 years 3 months ago #833 by Wasamon
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    • Maybe, but not likely. I remember reading an article about normal human gestation periods and how babies are so underdeveloped (comparatively) at birth, and a major point was that human mothers would carry babies longer if it were metabolically possible, and that the mother's physiology was perhaps the biggest factor in how long a species gestational period was.

    Unless the high exemplar rating came with a massively overhauled physiology, to the point of not being even close to human (i.e. Sara Waite), I wouldn't expect much of a difference. Even then, mom may be an exemplar, but baby isn't. If baby's still human, then accelerated gestation would probably be bad overall as well.
    Check this out sometime! :) Princesses of the Pizza Parlor, ep. 1: Princesses Don't Do Summer School
    6 years 3 months ago #834 by null0trooper
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    • Biologically, I'd think that what matters is where the mother spent those 40 weeks of her time, much less so the dates of conception and delivery on the Gregorian calendar.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #835 by Sir Lee
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    • Of course, we are aware that there are parallel dimensions where time flows at a different rate than in the regular WU. It's quite possible that something like this happened:
    1. Lainie graduates in early June.
    2. Lainie and Wyatt marry right afterwards.
    3. Lainie gets pregnant right away.
    4. Before she realizes she's pregnant, she goes into one of those interdimensional jaunts.
    5. She gets stuck there. It takes a couple days for her friends to mount a rescue. Only, time there runs more than 50 times faster than on Earth.
    6. She gets back in early July... about five months pregnant.

    But I was trying to see if the timeline of Lainie's pregnant was feasible without such timeline shenanigans and without her being expelled due to pregnancy. And it is -- barely. It might require the complicity of some people in the Whateley staff (to get her out of combat classes and such), but that is really not much of a stretch: it has been suggested again and again that the "no pregnancy", as well as the "don't have sex" rule, actually amounts to "don't get caught." As long as Lainie's pregnancy is not general knowledge, the staff would pretend they knew nothing about it, and if it came up after graduation, they would just say that Lainie successfully pulled the wool over their eyes.

    So, while E.E. is of course free to resort to timeline trickery to fit Lainie's pregnancy, he does not really needs to; if he does, it's a dramatic choice, not a cheap retcon.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #836 by Malady
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    • So, we'll likely need AEGIS, the... United Kingdom organization or something.

    We've got Aegis the student... So, since capitals matter, we make "AEGIS", and move "Aegis" to "Aegis (Student)", where "Aegis" is a disambig?

    ----

    Also, we've got a Wanted page of Madame "Archanbault", but I dunno where that name came from, anyone know?
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #837 by Sir Lee
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    • Capitals matter, except when you are searching. So I think your second option is better overall.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #838 by Malady
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    • And AEGIS and maybe also HERMES would have "(Organization)" suffix, I suppose? *shrugs*

    ----

    Move "Ink in her Veins" to "Ink in Her Veins", please?

    Wait, no, "her" is uncapped in story??

    ... yes, no caps for that in all parts. Weird. ... Gonna fix our page.
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #839 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Since I'm working on Flowers of the Sun, AI naming conventions have come up. The story contains an even dozen named AIs, most of which are awakened, hence people. Some of them have names that are rather common, like Daisy, Jack, Dora and Spike. Not to mention Belvedere, who is Whateley Academy's installation-class AI and who has been essentially invisible to date, but is said to be the informal leader in AI society.

    Do we want to make the official page names something like "Kurenai AIPA," although that would be rather unwieldy the number of times Kurenai is mentioned.

    Or what?

    Ideas, comments? whatever?
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #840 by Malady
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    • Common names get (AI), otherwise don't?

    So, Kurenai is without suffix 'cause there's likely only gonna be one.

    Parentheses Suffixes are only for those who need disambigs / clarification?

    The mystery protag AI at the end could get her ID string thing as her page, or just wait till she appears in story.

    ----

    We're slowly getting to the E One Links... Probably should make those Force pages, or redirect them...
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #841 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Common names get (AI), otherwise don't?

    So, Kurenai is without suffix 'cause there's likely only gonna be one.

    Parentheses Suffixes are only for those who need disambigs / clarification?

    The mystery protag AI at the end could get her ID string thing as her page, or just wait till she appears in story.


    So, Kurenai and Rissei don't need suffixes. Probably Belvedere as well. Orca? Maybe. Likewise Kanda, which may also be single use.

    Tower and Temple are used a lot. Whether those are common enough to need suffixes? I'd say no, at least so far.

    Jack, Dora, Daisy and Spike need the suffix. Pikachu? Since it's a name from a real-world game, probably, but it's going to be low usage. Spike is going to be used a lot, but so far it's only in one story.

    Edit: Turns out Orca is also in use by the Golden Gate Guardians.

    Tower is in use by the Cadet Crusaders. Fortunately, it's not used anywhere near as much as Temple.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: Another one
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #842 by Malady
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    • I removed the "Sally's Restaurant" Redlink 'cause I made it and don't think it'll be of much use.

    Unless we start talking about Dunwich... And we did, and Sally's Restaurant is already there...

    ----

    So, Cerulea has a redlink to "Big Bob's Barbeque", the chain owned by her dad... It's not plot relevant, and not mentioned much? Should we cut the link, unless it gains more prominence?

    @Sir Lee, since you made it.

    ----

    Flowers in the Sun stuff [ Click to expand ]
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #843 by elrodw
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    • Malady wrote: I removed the "Sally's Restaurant" Redlink 'cause I made it and don't think it'll be of much use.

    Unless we start talking about Dunwich... And we did, and Sally's Restaurant is already there...

    ----

    So, Cerulea has a redlink to "Big Bob's Barbeque", the chain owned by her dad... It's not plot relevant, and not mentioned much? Should we cut the link, unless it gains more prominence?

    @Sir Lee, since you made it.


    As of now, there's nothing plot-critical or useful about Big Bob's BBQ that couldn't be covered in family background stuff. There's no reason to have Big Bob's BBQ as a separate link and page.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 3 months ago #844 by Sir Lee
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    • I agree. I can't recall why I linked it, maybe "just in case" if it ever became relevant, since it's supposed to be a rather well-known chain. I probably wouldn't link it today.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #845 by Malady
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    • Repost from Page 81...

    Maybe should move "Brenda Koshnick" to "Brenda Koshnik", since the latter is the one given in her scan from Part 3 , and it's how it's spelt in the latter parts.

    Certainly should move "Wharheit" to "Wahrheit", since the former is a typo.

    ----

    So, move "Marissa Dawson Walcutt" to "Marissa Dawson"?

    ----

    Repost from 80: Also, speaking of names, but less important. Alvery, or Avery, for Elfe de Feu?
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #846 by Sir Lee
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    • Malady wrote: Maybe should move "Brenda Koshnick" to "Brenda Koshnik", since the latter is the one given in her scan from Part 3 , and it's how it's spelt in the latter parts.

    Probably, good reasoning. But keep the redirect for the alternate spelling

    Malady wrote: Certainly should move "Wharheit" to "Wahrheit", since the former is a typo.

    In-story typo or wiki-editor typo? Not that it really matters, even if it happens in-story, if there are several occurrences with one spelling and just the single one different... assume it's a typo, unless the "typo" is the only one that actually makes sense. If so, ask the author.

    Malady wrote: So, move "Marissa Dawson Walcutt" to "Marissa Dawson"?

    I think it's the best choice, since it's likely to be the name she uses most frequently in speaking roles. Add a few redirects (Marissa Dawson-Walcutt, Marissa Dawson-Donner... but the current, nonhyphenated form is probably going to be kept only until I fix the linking pages; it's clearly wrong)

    As a matter of fact, as a rule of thumb, whenever a woman appears both under her maiden name and under her married name, using the maiden name as the main page is probably the safest route.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #847 by Malady
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    • It's gotta be "Wahrheit".

    "Wharheit" is used in no story. The in-site search confirms.

    And Google corrects it if you search it.

    ----

    Is "Twitch", a common enough nickname for Tek Witch, for it to be a redirect?
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #848 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I've updated the Loophole page so it ought to work with the new method of disambiguating "Mrs. Cody" from "Mrs. Cody." It still needs a lot of work, in particular merging the Wicked page and the Generation 2 section as well as adding lots of references. However, it ought to be good enough to move forward.

    Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

    Edit; I've now integrated the information from the Wicked page, so it will be available to change into a redirect to "Elaine Nalley" when we're ready to make the shift.

    Edit 2: I integrated the information from the 2nd Generation section. Except for adding references, this should be done. If I don't hear any objections, I'll pull the trigger on renaming Loophole to Elaine Nalley and adding the redirects when I get back from lunch and errands.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: More changes
    6 years 3 months ago #849 by E. E. Nalley
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Questions? Comments? Suggestions?


    Looks good! Very through.
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    6 years 3 months ago #850 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • OK. Loophole has been renamed to Elaine Nalley and all the redirects have been established.

    I've updated the Solange page. Is this OK, or do we need something more before I rename it to Tansy Walcott and add a redirect for "Mrs. Cody(Tansy). (The rename will establish the redirect for Solange.)

    Questions? Comments? Problems?
    6 years 3 months ago #851 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Everything's nicely renamed and all redirects are in place and work.

    "Wicked (Villain)|Jennifer Kelly" can be changed to "Jennifer Kelly"

    "Wicked (Solange)" can be changed to "Mrs. Cody(Tansy)"

    Some instances of "Wicked" need to be changed to "Mrs. Cody(Elaine)" but a lot of others need to stay "Wicked", so I think I'll have to do that by hand.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #852 by Sir Lee
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    • OK, the first two ones I can bot-fix easily enough.

    (EDIT) And done! Minor change, though -- for consistency with other entries, I added a space before the parenthesis. Had to rename a couple redirects, but they weren't being used yet, so no big deal.

    I can have a look at the third one too, at least try to cull down the list a bit. The bot is more interactive than one would think, it shows the edits onscreen and I have to click "OK" for each page edited, and it also allows one to tweak the edits before saving.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #853 by Malady
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    • So... We've got 2 links to Schroedinger , which is actually used in-story, for Josie's Familiar, but the scientist's name is "Schrodinger", and is also used initially...

    Plus it's what's used on "Familiars"...

    Is "Schro(e)dinger" important enough to be wicked? Even as an infant Shoggoth?
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #854 by Sir Lee
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    • I understand that the name of the scientist is "Erwin Schrödinger" (note the umlaut), and in the process of writing it in languages that don't make use of umlauts on "o"s (like English and Portuguese) sometimes the umlaut is just dropped, and sometimes the "ö" becomes an "oe" to approximate the sound. So, as a reference to the scientist, both forms are "correct", sort of.

    Now, which the forms to standardize on is a different subject, it would depend on the pattern of usage in the stories. Generally speaking, if one form is used far more frequently than the other it is the preferred one; alternatively, if the author after a point consistently changed from one form to another, the later form can be understood to be the "corrected" one. Since there are only two stories, let me check...

    Hmmm. Drunkfu actually started with Schrödinger with an umlaut (5 occurrences), switched to Schroedinger once, then used Schrodinger (no umlaut) twice, then standardized on Schroedinger for the rest of the "Abyss" (14 occurrences) and kept using it for the entirety of "Ecila in Normaland"

    So, Drunkfu's preference is pretty clear: it should be "Schroedinger", sometimes shortened to "Schroe".

    Does Schroe deserve his own entry? Debatable. On one hand, he's pretty unique; on the other, well, he didn't do much in the first place, and with Drunkfu no longer writing, he's sort of in a limbo. He might have cameos in other authors' stories, but in practice the four characters Drunkfu placed in Whateley (Josie, Ecila, Schroe and Suzan Chylds) have been conspicuous for their invisibility.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #855 by null0trooper
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    • For anyone writing off-line and pasting updates to the CMS (which avoids the notorious time-out problem), the reproduction of high-bit characters and symbols is frustratingly hit-and-miss. I'd be surprised if the canon authors haven't begun avoiding names that use them. (I've gone to using HTML in my own WhatIF-destined writing.)

    I think Ecila may have been mentioned in one of the Three Amigas stories, since Kayda's almost good enough at mathematics to sit in on one of her classes? Otherwise, all of Josie's and Schroedinger's cameos have been in microscenes and Fabrication Lab stories.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 3 months ago #856 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Is it "The Mighty Squid" or "Mighty Squid"? I remember a post on the subject of "The" a while back, and I seem to remember that, in most cases, drop the "The".

    Also - the River City Wardens seem to have a member named "Silver Sylph," but most of the references are to "Sylphie." Unless there's a hue and cry, I'm going to use "Silver Sylph".
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #857 by Malady
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    • I just did a search for "Silver Sylph"... Nothing. What's your source?

    Oh. Calamari Part 1:

    Aunt Jorunn, what’s up?” she asked as she stepped into the information line, being careful not to use her godmother’s usual nickname. Since the name Sylphie was derived from her codename, Silver Sylph, Tanya had learned long ago not to use it in public.

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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #858 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • OK. I just hand-fixed all of the Wicked references that should be "Mrs. Cody (Tansy)" as well as a small horde of other minor problems. That refactor is now done. (Whew)

    That brought up another issue, though. I was puzzled about "The Committee." In fact, I'm still somewhat puzzled. I think it's something that Lord Paramount put together to have a mercenary strike force against major problems like Night Death and Viridian, but I'm not at all certain that's what it's about. However, it does seem like "Hindmost" is what Amelia Hartford uses as her Committee ID - it is not the actual name on her MID.

    Is this correct?
    6 years 3 months ago #859 by Malady
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    • The Committee seems like the leaders of the Syndicate, or at least having a lot of members from it, meaning that everyone there, is considered a villain?

    But, Ito's there, IIRC, and he's unaligned?

    Their goal seems to be SMIL2E or whatever.
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    6 years 3 months ago #860 by E. E. Nalley
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    • The Committee is a group of powerful individuals whose goal is the expansion of humanity off of planet Earth. There are members who are in the Syndicate, and high up, but the Committee is not technically the leaders of or composed only of the Syndicate. There members include heroes, villains, neutrals, mercenaries and others who are of like mind.

    They are an example of the kind of Grand Conspiracies in comics.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago #861 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Thanks, E. E.

    I'm currently on a red-link killing rampage that I'm doing story by story. At the moment I'm looking at The Road To Whateley. I notice a lot of named characters that are unlikely to ever appear in another story. This isn't specific to this story or this author: it happens all over. I just happen to be looking at The Road to Whateley at this time.

    If I make links to them, they wind up on the wanted pages list, and if I don't, they're basically invisible except to someone reading the story. Making a page seems to be a waste for someone who has a couple of lines in one story. Also, some of the names conflict: Belphegor's minion Marcus, for example, seems to redirect to "Marcus (Loyal)", who is one of the White Lady's guards and enforcers.

    So, what do do? I'm wondering if making a "Minions" section and directing them there would be a good solution. In this particular story, there are three bad guys who have a total of 10 minions among them. Two of the bad guys already have entries: Belphegor and Baron Blitzen,

    This isn't all the minor characters, by any means, but it's a good proportion of them. I could kill a couple more by stashing two others in the MCO entry, which already has people entries under the various office entries.

    Is this a good idea, or do we have other priorities that make creating a page for each of them (and a disambiguation for Marcus) a better idea?
    6 years 3 months ago #862 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Hmm, we're likely to see both Baron Blitzen and Belphegor again, and with them, I would probably re-use and further flesh out minions, depending on story needs. And I can say all of the authors are using the Wiki as a reference as keeping the Bible updated is too much of a chore.

    That said, as far as minions like this go, I think the best solution is to link to the Main Villain the minion works for and make a

    (Minions)
    • Name
    • name

    Section on the villain page. If the minion turns into a major character we can use a (Main Article Name) link. How's that?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago #863 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Thanks E. E.

    That's basically what I was thinking. If the minion turns up under more than one villain, that seems to be a good reason to make a main page.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #864 by Malady
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    • @Xaltatun - Do you mind a reversion of "2016-08", back to list format, since it's spawning 10 Wanted pages. Unless there's a story that's using the those days... Hunger does, but no links yet...

    Well, filled out Hunger Part 1's dates...

    Not starting on Part 2, until we know what happens if we have multiple headings with the same name, 'cause "2016-08-28" has to be duped.

    From Preview, it looks like they share the URL, likely meaning that the first occurrence is what people will get.

    ... OH, right, you don't use the date header if it direct sequels like that. Good thinking.
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #865 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Filling in timeline pages for Hunger will bring the August red-links down to 5 new ones - that is, ones that wouldn't be there if it was in list format. It'll also fill in the last 3 red-links (with one filler page) in September. Are you going to work on that, or should I put it on my to-do list?
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #866 by Malady
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    • Likely not gonna do summaries like you do.

    Do you want me to make them stubs, at least, so they're not Wanted anymore?

    ----

    Should we make a "Minor Characters" page, or "Characters to get pages" or something like, to hold all our redlinks?

    But I guess the current Wanted Pages system is fine.

    ----

    Also, we now have 2 Retrofits. Dr. Speers, and ... Marcus, the JH Kid with Retrofit, is using his "dad's" (old?) codename. Gotta be. That's so sweet, and makes so much sense, etc.
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    6 years 3 months ago #867 by E. E. Nalley
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    • So the Westchester Montessori page needs to be renamed to Benjamin Franklin Academy and edited to include the below with a redirect for Westchester Montessori to the new page. Not knowing how to do handle the renames and redirects, I'll leave that to the experts.


    The original school, Ben Franklin Academy was located in Westchester and is a Montessori style school. However the campus was extremely cramped and the school was a victim of its own success and over crowded. Attempts to buy land around the campus to expand were fruitless, so the school had to move closer to New York to get a better facility. In the kids minds, as there were two separate places they became distinct, even though the school, Ben Franklin Academy didn't change.

    The above is from my post explaining Westchester Montessori and Ben Franklin Academy are actually the same school that moved its campus. This is discussed in the Jadis and Malachi thread for cite if needed.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 3 months ago #868 by Sir Lee
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    • There's already a Benjamin Franklin Academy page, so this will require some judicious editing.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #869 by Malady
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    • Should we un-calendarize "2006-07"?

    There's barely any stories covering that month, or have we just not dated any?

    Also, "2007-04", and "2007-06"?
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    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 3 months ago #870 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Well, I for one hate repeating work, so if there are entries for those dates, just leave it and fill them in as stories happen I would think. Not that there are any in the pipeline right now for then, but who knows what the future brings, right?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #871 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Well, when I converted them to calendar format, my criterion was at least 10 dates with stories. That's now changed to 10 or fewer new red-links as a result of the conversion, and 2007-06 meets that criterion (converting it back to list format would only kill 8 red-links).

    You may want to set the criterion lower, however, there are only 70 red-links for dates with only one link.

    Edit: The 2007-04 month ought to get a lot filled in, because there are a lot of existing Gen-1 stories that don't have timeline entries, let alone story pages.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by XaltatunOfAcheron.
    6 years 3 months ago #872 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Sir Lee wrote: There's already a Benjamin Franklin Academy page, so this will require some judicious editing.


    It doesn't look all that bad - they're both small pages. Does someone want to do it, or should I put it on my "round tuit" list?
    6 years 3 months ago #873 by Malady
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    • ^ - I assumed that Sir Lee was gonna get around to it once he planned it all out.

    ----

    Any objection to making "2006-01" and "2006-02" filler month pages, 'cause we've got no dates in those months, but they are linked from your timeline...
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    6 years 3 months ago #874 by Sir Lee
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    • I might, but I haven't started on it yet. So, if anybody feels up to it and wants to go ahead, feel free.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 3 months ago #875 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • To revisit a slightly older topic: the wanted pages list.

    I've been tracking it using several sentinels for a while: last 3-link, Miles Havoc, Linda Havoc, last 2-link. What I've learned is that these don't change position much day to day. Three to five positions is typical. What this tells me is that the system seems to build the entire list and then chop holes in the end to make it fit. In turn, that suggests we've got somewhere around 1300 to 1400 wanted pages total.
    6 years 3 months ago #876 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • The Westchester Montessori and Benjamin Franklin Academy merge is complete.

    How do you like it?
    6 years 3 months ago #877 by Malady
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    • Nice analysis of the Wanted Pages!

    ----

    On Westchester:

    I'd move the alternate name mention to the beginning, or did you give it its own section?

    I just want it to be prominent.

    Linking to the forums can be templated from examples in "Sidhe", or "Magic". Elrod's characters, and E.E's also have some info from the forums?
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    6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #878 by Sir Lee
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    • To be more specific, there are two parts to the problem of linking to the forums:
    - The first one is linking to a generic external source (wikipedia and a few other wikis are special cases which are done with "regular" wikilinks, except using a namespace reference -- although you can use external links for that too. It's just more work and the links are formatted a bit differently). An external link is done by using SINGLE brackets (not double like wikilinks). The FIRST element inside the brackets is the URL; anything else will be the linked text.

    - The second part is where to get the URL for the post. If you look at any forum post, there's some small text above it, outside the frame, on the right. The last thing in that line is a number: that's the forum post number, which I suppose is the serial number of the post in the database. And it's a link! Your just right-click on the number and copy the link -- that's the URL to the post.

    So, this particular link ended up being like this: [ whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/spec...lachi?start=10#55659 E. E. Nalley at the Forums]

    Note also that since it's not a story title, it does not require being in italics.

    Oh, and the merge looks fine.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 3 months ago #879 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Sir Lee: thanks for the pointer. I hadn't noticed that number cleverly hidden in plain sight.

    On to wild idea time. Something I've noticed while working on the timeline is that it's not all that easy to follow a story in the timeline pages, especially when you get out of the main continuity where there are gaps in the sequence, or really out in the sticks where there may be a couple of pages per year.

    The idea is to take the "See Also", which currently has an up, back and forward entry, and make it a three-column table with prev, what and next columns. There would be a row for each story on the page, with its own previous and next links.

    Now, obviously, maintaining this would be a bear without automated help from some kind of bot, but it might be cool if there was automated support. (Note; I'm on a mac, so AutoWikiBrowser isn't going to work for me. JavaScript Wiki Browser might, although some of the usage instructions kind of baffle me ATM.)

    Comments? Good idea or not? Ooze backwards slowly and run for the door?
    6 years 3 months ago #880 by Sir Lee
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    • A template might make it easier to maintain. But I'm far from a template guru, and this sounds a bit out of my league. Does anybody know anybody who's good with MediaWiki templates?
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #881 by Malady
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    • Maybe have a "Stories that take place in this month" section in the Month page?

    ----

    IMaddMann posted on Xalt's talk page, but seems like a bigger wiki issue:

    Greetings! I was thinking of updating the Loose Canons and was wondering if the concensus was that Death Ghost that is in the wiki is the same as the one from Bek's story.


    Or something for the LC story pages, depending on what he's talking about. 'Cause I'm not sure atm.
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #882 by Sir Lee
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    • I would say that it's quite likely they are both the same. They both have this thing about announcing themselves by stretching their codenames in a a loud and creepy voice.

    Description for the one from Boston:
    "The man looked to be over six feet tall and looked pretty solidly built. He was wearing this black uniform with a gray cowl and cape. There were these white bands at his wrists, and there was a skull shape in a red field in the center of his chest." He can project blasts of force from his gauntlets, and is a creepy, racist horndog who has no concept of "age of consent." He also specifically had "won five mutant death matches."
    Description for the one in Nevada:
    "On the second day, we got a visitor that made my skin crawl. He was a good-looking, athletic guy with sandy blonde hair in one of those ‘Caesar’ cuts and he dressed real nice. What creeped me out about him, beside the fact that a civilian was down here in the first place, was the way he watched me, like a race course tout sizing up a filly — or a butcher checking out a side of meat. After watching me work out with Wardance for a while, he strolled out onto the mat and checked me out. I am not used to guys checking me out. Especially sleazy guys who can’t keep their libidos off their faces." Again, creepy horn-dog with no concept of "age of consent." And... "Out of civvies, he was wearing an outfit that was like a negative version of the Space Ghost character: a black outfit with a gray hooded cape, and a skull on his chest."
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago #883 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Maybe have a "Stories that take place in this month" section in the Month page?

    ----

    IMaddMann posted on Xalt's talk page, but seems like a bigger wiki issue:

    Greetings! I was thinking of updating the Loose Canons and was wondering if the concensus was that Death Ghost that is in the wiki is the same as the one from Bek's story.


    Or something for the LC story pages, depending on what he's talking about. 'Cause I'm not sure atm.


    I have a talk page? Seriously, it took me a minute to realize that it was probably on the Wiki and look. I don't think I've looked at it since the Wiki started. I should probably update it to say I never come here, so putting things on it for my attention is futile.

    Bec would be the one to answer that question. My understanding is that some of the authors look for already existing likely side characters to populate their stories, so it's quite possible.

    "Stories that take place in this month" section? Interesting idea, but I'm not clear what purpose it would serve. (In the IT biz, we'd call this a "use case.")
    6 years 2 months ago #884 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Sir Lee wrote: A template might make it easier to maintain. But I'm far from a template guru, and this sounds a bit out of my league. Does anybody know anybody who's good with MediaWiki templates?


    A template. Hm. It would work for setting up a single line in the table, but it wouldn't save much in the way of keystrokes - might even be a couple more. It would be a bit easier for someone new to use. It's one line instead of manually filling in the three lines in the table structure.

    The reason I was thinking of a bot is that I was thinking of something I could feed a list of dates and a code, and it would update all the pages in one fell swoop.

    I'm working on The Island of Dr. DNA at the moment, and since that looks like almost entirely new timeline pages, I think I'll give the idea a trial run so we can see how it works out in practice.
    6 years 2 months ago #885 by E. E. Nalley
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: "Stories that take place in this month" section? Interesting idea, but I'm not clear what purpose it would serve. (In the IT biz, we'd call this a "use case.")


    Well, it would clarify what was happening when, but with a larger picture than the day to day summery. I don't know that a case could really be made for it, but it is interesting.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 2 months ago #886 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: "Stories that take place in this month" section? Interesting idea, but I'm not clear what purpose it would serve. (In the IT biz, we'd call this a "use case.")


    Well, it would clarify what was happening when, but with a larger picture than the day to day summery. I don't know that a case could really be made for it, but it is interesting.


    Use cases come in all sizes and degrees of justification. If it helps the authors, that makes the case right there.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #887 by Sir Lee
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    • As you might already be aware, Wikia rebranded to Fandom, and as part of the process the domain name is also changing to Fandom.com (instead of wikia.com). Some wikis have already been migrated in October as a sort of test. Another test batch is being migrated right now. So far, our wiki has not been included. But...

    ...we now have a definite timeline for migrating pretty much ALL(*) of the remaining wikis in wikia.com to fandom.com: it's going to happen in the 2-week period between January 21st (next Monday) and February 4th. The Whateley wiki is already showing a warning banner on top.

    How is that going to affect us?

    Well... not much, really. Kristen will have to update the link on the main page of the site. There's no info regarding how long wikia/fandom will keep redirects active (if at all), so old links from past posts may eventually become broken. Likewise, links from other sites (possibly tvtropes) may become broken. But the nature of the community is such that most visitors would come from here anyway, so whether Google rankings will take a hit or not is of no significant consequence.

    One change is that https will be enabled for everybody, not just for logged-on users. Again, this shouldn't be a problem -- anyone who is on a browser that can't handle encrypted websites has much bigger problems than a fan wiki not loading.

    And, if you rely on your wikia passwords being saved in your browser or some tool like LastPass... make sure, BEFORE the change, that you either know what that password is, or can retrieve it for using it on the new crystalhall.fandom.com domain.

    (*) Wikis dealing with stuff that is not "fandom"-type of subject will be instead migrated to wikia.org at a later date.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 2 months ago #888 by null0trooper
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    • Sir Lee wrote: (*) Wikis dealing with stuff that is not "fandom"-type of subject will be instead migrated to wikia.org at a later date.


    It's been suggested elsewhere that part of the reason for the migration is to enforce what "fandom" means and quarantine those wikis from others which could politely be said to be entirely negative in intent.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 2 months ago #889 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Well, the timeline entries for The Island of Dr. DNA are up. They've got the story linking as well as Malady's idea about a section listing the stories that are included that month.

    The reason it took so long is that there were 26 pages, not that the added work was that hard once I got into the flow. Still, automation would be helpful.

    How do you like it? Is the added value worth it?
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #890 by Malady
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    • Well, I meant more in a separate bulleted section from the "Previous Month", "Next Month"...

    But I feel that I just don't like its compactness, and how it merges two different types of info...

    Internal Story dates, and timeline dates.

    But I might just get used to it, I dunno.

    Not a big issue?

    ----

    If we really want to focus on clearing out the Wanted Pages, we should try and take out the 1 links, since they shouldn't need a lot of research...
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #891 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Well, I meant more in a separate bulleted section from the "Previous Month", "Next Month"...

    But I feel that I just don't like its compactness, and how it merges two different types of info...

    Internal Story dates, and timeline dates.

    But I might just get used to it, I dunno.

    Not a big issue?


    You may not have noticed it - it is a separate section on the month pages.
    6 years 2 months ago #892 by Malady
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

    Malady wrote: Well, I meant more in a separate bulleted section from the "Previous Month", "Next Month"...

    But I feel that I just don't like its compactness, and how it merges two different types of info...

    Internal Story dates, and timeline dates.

    But I might just get used to it, I dunno.

    Not a big issue?


    You may not have noticed it - it is a separate section on the month pages.


    :blink: ... I saw it, then forgot about it, since I saw the tables so much more, when browsing the date pages as well.

    It's good, then.
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    6 years 2 months ago #893 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I decided to add The Back Side of Paradise to the timeline. It seemed to make more sense to have it in the same timeline as The Island of Dr. DNA, but I had to reorganize things a bit to get two different stories in the same sequence. I didn't change all of the pages, but if you start from March, 1990 and go forward, you'll see what it now looks like. I like this format a bit better, frankly.

    Oh, and I put in the list thingie that I'd missed before.

    Comments? Does this work better?
    6 years 2 months ago #894 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I've just dropped a description of the timeline, how it works, how to make it and some of the considerations for why it works the way it does. It's named "Timeline format" and is linked from the "Editing guidelines" page.

    Do you like it? Hate it? What needs to be improved?
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #895 by Malady
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    • Looks good!

    I'd toss a few examples in, but everything's clear.

    What two letter codes do you want for seasons? SU = Summer, but what about the other seasons?

    ----

    Anyone know where Amy of Victoria's Secret, a.k.a "Amy (VS)" comes from?

    Also, Mr. Cool's girlfriend, "Amber Polinkowski", where does her last name come from? I know we had some Micro Scenes with her, but I can't find a canon source for her last name.

    ----

    Need to find that Kodiak3.1 ref for "Elaine Nalley", 'cause it's broken...

    ----

    "Hilton Orbital Casino" or "Hilton Orbital Casino and Hotel"? Hmm...
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #896 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • And -- a page on how I do story pages. It's highly personal, since I doubt if anyone else is going to do it that exact way. It should at least get people started.

    Like? Dislike? Needs improvement (of course)? Comments?

    Edit: oh, it's named "Creating a Story Page" and linked from the Editing Guidelines page.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by XaltatunOfAcheron. Reason: more info
    6 years 2 months ago #897 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: Anyone know where Amy of Victoria's Secret, a.k.a "Amy (VS)" comes from?


    Whisper, Ch. 30

    A salesperson with the Victoria's Secret at Patrick Henry Mall in Newport News, VA. She's notably uncomfortable seeing Bree in the store, and makes an excuse to get away. After some strategic bra shopping, Bree sees Amy looking over at her several times while assisting another customer. There's a very high probability that she called in the tip to Humanity First! that resulted in a hit team waiting for Bree when they (Bree Peters, her mother, plus Amanda and Barb Townsend) leave the mall.

    One of the other sales associates at the store tells Bree that Amy's brother "was accidentally killed when some super hero group was called in to defeat a super villain that was robbing a bank.”

    Malady wrote: Also, Mr. Cool's girlfriend, "Amber Polinkowski", where does her last name come from? I know we had some Micro Scenes with her, but I can't find a canon source for her last name.


    Have Yourself and EVIL Little Christmas, Part 3

    Then his alarm buzzed, and Brian barely had time to get his suit into his locker before Amber Ponikowski came into the lab. “Why is it always so COLD in here?”
    “Well, I DO work with cryonics, you know,” Brian said defensively. Brian tended to be rather defensive around Amber Ponikowski. While she was thin, flat-chested and rather plain of face, she was still the most attractive woman in the School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, even if she didn’t know it.

    Amber Ponikowski was leaning into Brian’s locker, a look of shock on her long, angular features. Her large gray eyes, definitely her best feature, were wide with surprise. Brian’s power suit was obvious, even from where he stood. In one hand, she held the bag with the jewels from Tiffany’s, and in the other, she held a handful of loose stones. She turned and recognized Brian through his icy disguise. “Brian? I, I was looking for a… You? You’re a supervillain?” Brian tried to figure a way out of this trap without killing Amber. Then an entirely different look spread across Amber’s face, one that Brian had seen on women’s faces before, but never aimed at HIM. “Oh My Gawd! That is SO HAWT!!”

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 2 months ago #898 by Sir Lee
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    • Re: Mr. Cool's GF... the name comes from her original appearance, in "Have Yoursel an Evil Little Christmas," part 3:
    "Then his alarm buzzed, and Brian barely had time to get his suit into his locker before Amber Ponikowski came into the lab. “Why is it always so COLD in here?”"

    And it's "Ponikowski", not "Polinkowski." That link is (well, was) wrong.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #899 by Malady
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    • So, since we now know that Envy starts in 2007, given that it's tagged in that year...

    Wait... No? [ Click to expand ]


    Actually, actually, would the "Gen 1, Year 2" tag, mean that her first year is 2007-2008? Apparently, since Silver Ghost, Golden Angel, mentions that the codename Envy has been bought.

    But, that's in December 2006... Did Strega plan the codename, for 5 months??
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    6 years 2 months ago #900 by MageOhki
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    • Malady wrote: Yeah, we have those Div tags for Gen2 and stuff, to hide stuff.

    I wonder if we can nest them...


    ... Kelly is Melville RA... Where else do you appear... I want your full name... Ah yes, you are "Kelly Mishkin", "Bistable Shifter"... Do we know your codename? I guess not...

    Pong is Kelly's code name, bi stable as he flips genders only. Frosh Male Meville RA

    Alvery Rosseau is Avery is "Elfe de Feu"? ... Alvery, or Avery?

    And "Onishi Kiyoko", I don't think we're gonna get any better than that, for now...

    Removed Spoiler tags so I can respond
    Onishi Kiyoko is a Library tale.
    And is the correct spelling

    Hikaru, Kenshin and several other Japanese are at an inaugural meeting of Pan-Asia. The teacher who is sponsoring it turns out to be a partisan of the Iron Dragon and has a very obvious hatred of the Japanese, probably derived from the historical incident called the Rape of Nanking before World War II. It does not go well, and both Hikaru and Kenshin decide to withdraw.

    At that writing, they haven't formally withdrawn (To be fair, they didn't formally join, but) so, that's something to take into account. Withdraw for the evening, yes, withdraw and not come back, not yet.

    "J Dean"... Possibly "Justin Dean", based on Kansas 5 ...
    At least he only seems to appear in "Sunshine & Fury", "Glimpses of the Sun", and that ^. Also mentioned in "2016-09-08". Gonna leave him unlinked, until we know more.

    J Dean is a *code name* and flat out homage to *James Dean*
    Who J Dean actually *does resemble very strongly* Head RA of Meville, 5th year student/gap year (He's british)/assistant to the faculty.

    Malady wrote: Bot: "James Tyson" links to "Chicken" 'cause that's his codename, apparently.


    Technically, to be pedantic, it's his *call* in Delta, but it's also the name he uses on his MMID, so close enough for me!

    Sir Lee wrote:

    Malady wrote: Bot: "James Tyson" links to "Chicken" 'cause that's his codename, apparently.

    More like a callsign than a codename... I wonder if he got tagged with it as a reference to Tyson Foods?


    Kinda. Generally it's a disparaging nickname, so. Haven't decided exactly how he got it.

    XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: Since I'm working on Flowers of the Sun, AI naming conventions have come up. The story contains an even dozen named AIs, most of which are awakened, hence people. Some of them have names that are rather common, like Daisy, Jack, Dora and Spike. Not to mention Belvedere, who is Whateley Academy's installation-class AI and who has been essentially invisible to date, but is said to be the informal leader in AI society.

    Do we want to make the official page names something like "Kurenai AIPA," although that would be rather unwieldy the number of times Kurenai is mentioned.

    Or what?

    Ideas, comments? whatever?


    Whatever works for you, though given their legal status, Kurenai could be consdiered Myojin Kurenai.

    Malady wrote: Common names get (AI), otherwise don't?

    So, Kurenai is without suffix 'cause there's likely only gonna be one.

    Parentheses Suffixes are only for those who need disambigs / clarification?

    The mystery protag AI at the end could get her ID string thing as her page, or just wait till she appears in story.

    ----

    We're slowly getting to the E One Links... Probably should make those Force pages, or redirect them...

    Kurenai is actually a use name, at least used 5 times to my knowledge, Wassie might know of some too.
    6 years 2 months ago #901 by MageOhki
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    • Given the size of this thread, and how much *work* is going on, would you all like your own subforum/forum so you can spread out stuff done? Would it help you?
    6 years 2 months ago #902 by MageOhki
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    • This will teach me to recheck.

    Sorry, Onishi Kiyoko *is* also a named student on Whateley. PDP, Japanese, descended from the father of the Kamikaze.

    Did *not* realize I reused the name. Whoops.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #903 by Malady
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    • ^ - So, not gonna give their codename? That's fine.

    ----

    Bot:

    "Kelly Mishkin" to "Pong".

    "Myra Barnes" to "Moonbrook" ... But, she's a teacher, so maybe stick with "Myra Barnes"?

    ----

    Not sure about "Elspeth Plimsoll" to "Patience"...
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #904 by elrodw
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    • MageOhki wrote: This will teach me to recheck.

    Sorry, Onishi Kiyoko *is* also a named student on Whateley. PDP, Japanese, descended from the father of the Kamikaze.

    Did *not* realize I reused the name. Whoops.


    Onishi Kiyoko is a character that was defined, to be used at a later date. Here's a little more (not-spoiler) information on her. She's the great-great-granddaughter of Onishi Takajiro of the Imperial Japanese Navy, father of the Kamikaze. Naturally, those east Asian students who haven't forgiven Japan for WW2 would not be kind to her, so she's trying to keep a low profile. This includes being in Whitman instead of Melville, and avoiding joining PanAsia. She's at Whateley because Japan is weak on training psychics.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago #905 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • The Gen 2 timeline, and, with two exceptions, the Gen 2 story pages, are now up to date. That may, of course, change later today, and almost definitely next week.

    The story page exceptions are Professional Courtesy, which doesn't impact Whateley and only has one date anyway, and the middle four segments of Dorms 4.

    I'm going to be only intermittently available for the next couple of weeks, since I'm doing a cross-country move from hither to yon. After that? We'll see.
    6 years 2 months ago #906 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Where are you headed to, Xaltatun?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #907 by Sir Lee
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    • Re Pong: I thought that there was a Ping Pong student in Gen2? Is that the same?
    Or has their codename been retconned to "Pong" due to conflict with the Sioux Falls League hero?
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 2 months ago #908 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • E. E. Nalley wrote: Where are you headed to, Xaltatun?


    Someplace East that's suffering from delusions of importance. Unfortunately, I'm not likely to live long enough to see it suffer the same fate as Atlantis. I really don't intend to say anything more than that unless there's a fan gathering close enough for me to get to in less than a half day of driving or so. I don't have anywhere near the stamina I used to.
    6 years 2 months ago #909 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Well, folks know I'm not shy about saying I'm in Atlanta. If you get in the area, give me a shout and we'll have a beer or something.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 2 months ago #910 by DanZilla
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    • Sir Lee wrote: Re Pong: I thought that there was a Ping Pong student in Gen2? Is that the same?
    Or has their codename been retconned to "Pong" due to conflict with the Sioux Falls League hero?


    According to the spreadsheet we have
    Kelly Mishkin is Ping-Pong and Leslie Wainwright is Ping
    6 years 2 months ago #911 by Sir Lee
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    • ...OK, all this ping-ponging inside my head is beginning to give me a headache...
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #912 by Malady
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    • Well, we have "Ping Pong (student)" as the page that whose link is called "Kelly Mishkin", in "I Don't Think We're in Kansas Anymore", but I dunno why. Maybe "Ping-pong"? The dash-less version only hits on the hero... Checking...

    Nope, dashes aren't helping.

    Okay, somehow Valentine knew... ... Was it on the Characters Excel Sheet, I guess?

    ----

    In any case, we should change "Kelly Mishkin" to "Ping-Pong (student)", given their mention in Dorms 4.6. And Cabal info.
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    6 years 2 months ago #913 by Astrodragon
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    • I thought Pong was Miasmas girlfriend.

    Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week...:D
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 2 months ago #914 by DanZilla
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    • Astrodragon wrote: I thought Pong was Miasmas girlfriend.

    Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week...:D


    I'm assuming she'd be British?
    6 years 2 months ago #915 by CrazyMinh
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    • Hey everyone, it appears that Wikia is being replaced by 'Fandom'. Apparently there might be a domain change to .fandom.com, and some formatting changes. Might want to look out for that, eh?
    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 2 months ago #916 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • CrazyMinh wrote: Hey everyone, it appears that Wikia is being replaced by 'Fandom'. Apparently there might be a domain change to .fandom.com, and some formatting changes. Might want to look out for that, eh?


    This has been in the works for a while; Kristen's aware of it. See the topic on the "Support needed" sub-forum. The note I saw didn't mention formatting changes, though. As far as we know, the only change we need to do is going to be the link to the Wiki on the front page. If you've got personal links to the wiki on comments elsewhere, those may need to change as well, but I suspect those are few and far between.
    6 years 2 months ago #917 by elrodw
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    • Sir Lee wrote: Re Pong: I thought that there was a Ping Pong student in Gen2? Is that the same?
    Or has their codename been retconned to "Pong" due to conflict with the Sioux Falls League hero?


    In Gen 2, we have Ping-Pong, who is a student who's a bistable shapeshifter - he alternates between male and female states, and his libido has something to do with triggering the shift (I'm the one who defined him, so I should know). We also have Ping, about whom I know a lot less.

    The hero with the Sioux Falls League was Ping-Pong. That code-name went inactive when Uhncegila kind of turned him into hero-hamburger. Ping-Pong is deceased. He is no more. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. His metabolic processes are ....

    Bah - not worth typing more. Too much distracting pain in knee. Besides, y'all know the whole spiel. And if you don't you, shame on your parents for neglecting your cultural upbringing.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago #918 by Malady
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    • Anyone else lagging, when trying to edit "Dated Stories - AY 2006-07"?

    I was gonna link "Wednesday Morning"'s flashback days, but if it's lagging for everyone, I think we should think about splitting the page, likely right down New Years Day?
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    6 years 2 months ago #919 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Anyone else lagging, when trying to edit "Dated Stories - AY 2006-07"?

    I was gonna link "Wednesday Morning"'s flashback days, but if it's lagging for everyone, I think we should think about splitting the page, likely right down New Years Day?


    Does anyone actually use the sort feature? I can't imagine what I'd use it for, frankly, but I suppose there are people who do.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #920 by Malady
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    • I think I only sorted when I was trying it out, so I'm fine with it being removed, if that's what you're asking.

    ----

    Move Cutting Edge to (Store), or (Shop), or something?

    Cutting Edge general would be a disambig... Between that and Villain?

    ----

    Hive is Everheart or Everhart?? *shrugs* ... What's her history with Eldritch?

    ----

    Bot: Remove "New Worlds Simulation Arcade" links, 'cause that location doesn't seem important?

    ----

    The Wanted pages are really weird on the 22nd, cutting out ? Fredericks...
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    6 years 2 months ago #921 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: Move Cutting Edge to (Store), or (Shop), or something?

    Cutting Edge general would be a disambig... Between that and Villain?


    Maybe a Business category, to cover the Wilkins' ventures, Sin d'Rome Mercenarium, and various investigators and instigators, as they grow beyond a one-time mention?

    Malady wrote: Hive is Everheart or Everhart?? *shrugs* ... What's her history with Eldritch?


    The Hive stories written by Warren run 90:5 Everheart vs. Everhart

    The impression that's been given is that Everheart was either involved in planning the Navy side of some of the missions Mahren was part of, or detailed to a staff position that had operational or tactical knowledge of those missions. There's enough of an age/career difference that they never would have met before 2006.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #922 by Sir Lee
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    • The bot is not working right now. Apparently something in the Wikia to Fandom migration broke compatibility with AutoWikiBrowser 6.0.0.1; versions under 6.x haven't worked with wikia/fandom for a while now. So, until someone releases 6.0.0.2, we are back to manual editing.

    Found a workaround. Had to change the domain from HTTP at crystalhall.wikia.com to HTTPS at crystalhall.fandom.com . Makes sense, one of the announced changes after the migration is that fandom is an all-https-all-the-time domain.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #923 by Malady
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    • Cool!

    Should we even use the Rename featurke ourselves? Or it's be easier to just bunch it all up with the bot?

    'Cause "Wendigo(Spirit)" needs to be "Wendigo (Spirit)"...

    Just delete "Wendigo(Spirit)"...
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #924 by null0trooper
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    • I'm fairly certain that there's been no appearances of wendigos, yet, but I added it in advance of the inevitable name collision.

    The "insult" that Wendigo took his code name for is likely to be a play on the term "man-eater".

    Edit: You're referring to the missing space. Got it.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #925 by Malady
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    • Yep, just talking about the space.

    Also, there's "Vindigo", currently a redlink, which might need to be pointed at from Wendigo. Maybe.

    Anyone got an idea on how to get "Wendigo" to reveal the References, while keeping that quote code??

    ----

    Oh, right! "The Final Trump" includes Envy! We can pin down her story's dates, that way... Now just need to find where Scrapegrace appears at Whateley... But, she's a Fall 2007 student, so we know that "The Final Trump" is in the summer of 2007?
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    6 years 2 months ago #926 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Anyone got an idea on how to get "Wendigo" to reveal the References, while keeping that quote code??


    Get rid of that final | character?
    6 years 2 months ago #927 by Malady
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

    Malady wrote: Anyone got an idea on how to get "Wendigo" to reveal the References, while keeping that quote code??


    Get rid of that final | character?


    That didn't seem to work...

    It'd be so much easier if Preview actually reflected how the quote box worked. It doesn't, though.

    I think we might need to scrap it.
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    6 years 2 months ago #928 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: Anyone got an idea on how to get "Wendigo" to reveal the References, while keeping that quote code??


    What are you trying to reveal? The reference list doesn't show up well in previews, but it shows up once the edit is committed.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #929 by Malady
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    • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Anyone got an idea on how to get "Wendigo" to reveal the References, while keeping that quote code??


    What are you trying to reveal? The reference list doesn't show up well in previews, but it shows up once the edit is committed.


    When I look at "Wendigo", the references are eaten by the "Quote from There's No Place Like Poe", and I have to Show it to see the references.

    ----

    Should we call Gloria Garland by her married name, of "Gloria Havoc"? or her original name?
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    6 years 2 months ago #930 by null0trooper
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    • I can't screenshot my cell phone easily, but this is what Firefox gives me.
    Screenshot_2019-01-24 Wendigo.png
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #931 by Malady
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    • I see. So your Firefox doesn't have the "Show" code mine does...

    But I'm seeing it, on both Android Desktop Version, and Windows Firefox version. 64.02...

    It's the little box, to the far right of the "Quote from There's No Place Like Poe[1]"

    Are you on a iPhone or something?

    Screenshot [ Click to expand ]


    ----

    And no, unfortunately, your 15:08 edit didn't change anything.

    ... Eww... Blockquote... So big, so bold, so clashing...

    I'd rather just use the colon style? ": [text]"
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    6 years 2 months ago #932 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: I see. So your Firefox doesn't have the "Show" code mine does...

    But I'm seeing it, on both Android Desktop Version, and Windows Firefox version. 64.02...

    It's the little box, to the far right of the "Quote from There's No Place Like Poe[1]"

    Are you on a iPhone or something?


    Nope. FireFox v.64.0 Build 3 on Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS, and Android Chrome v70.0.3538.80 on Android 5.0.1

    The wiki software uses an HTML table to format the quote, but puts the references list on the next row of the table before closing it. It maintains the text flow for screen readers, but your browsers are picking up on the table class specifying it as collapsible block element, collapsed by default, and collapsing the whole thing.

    Malady wrote: And no, unfortunately, your 15:08 edit didn't change anything.

    ... Eww... Blockquote... So big, so bold, so clashing...

    I'd rather just use the colon style? ": [text]"


    I'm trying to insert a quote, not the next level of an outline, nor a subsection of the text above it. Indenting on the left side leaves the right margin for the quoted text the same as the text above/below it.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #933 by Sir Lee
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    • I cleaned up a bit of the syntax, maybe it helps.

    There's also a "quote" template (see crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Template:Quote ). It's supposed to be a standard MediaWiki feature, but it seems that the Fandom implementation is slightly different. You might try it to see if that's what you were aiming for.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 2 months ago #934 by null0trooper
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    • Sir Lee wrote: I cleaned up a bit of the syntax, maybe it helps.

    There's also a "quote" template (see crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Template:Quote ). It's supposed to be a standard MediaWiki feature, but it seems that the Fandom implementation is slightly different. You might try it to see if that's what you were aiming for.


    That's what I was using when Malady's browsers had problems. Used by itself, the generated table markup closes as expected:
    <table class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%; margin:auto; clear:both; padding:1px; border:0px solid #c0c0c0;">
<tbody><tr>
<th colspan="1" style="padding-left:1em; padding-right:0.4em; text-align:left; font-size:60%;">Quote from {{{2}}}:
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align:left; font-size:88%;">
<dl><dd><i>{{{1}}}</i>
</dd></dl>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>

    Anything coming after it, like the dictionary list block used to lay out a references list, gets included in the <table> as another table row:
    <table class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%; margin:auto; clear:both; padding:1px; border:0px solid #c0c0c0;">
<tbody><tr>
<th colspan="1" style="padding-left:1em; padding-right:0.4em; text-align:left; font-size:60%;">Quote from {{{2}}}:
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align:left; font-size:88%;">
<dl><dd><i>{{{1}}}</i>
</dd></dl>
<h3><span class="mw-headline" id="References">References</span><span class="editsection"><a href="/wiki/Template:Quote?action=edit&amp;section=1" title="Edit References section"><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D" class="sprite edit-pencil">Edit</a></span></h3>
<p>{reflist}
</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>

    I went to MediaWiki's quotes page earlier, and their {{quote}} generated code uses <blockquote> tags without running into the "where to put </table>" problem that Template:Quote has.

    IIRC, the solid-color 0px border addresses a rendering problem, but I don't recall if it's a problem with IE's block model or FF's.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #935 by Malady
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    • Should we tag stories with Character Categories?

    We used to not, but there are some, like how "Whilst Any Speaks" is tagged with "Lit Chix"... Makes sense...

    ----

    Note: Need to add "Veni, Vidi, Cutie" into a Story List.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #936 by Malady
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    • Okay, it's been days since anyone's said anything... And this is sorta urgent... Or at least important.

    "2016-08-13" needs to be merged with "2016-08-10", then deleted, since the dates have changed for its events, it seems.

    ----

    Bot:

    Change "Myra Barnes" links to "Moonbrook"? Or leave it, since she's a teacher?
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    6 years 2 months ago #937 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: Okay, it's been days since anyone's said anything... And this is sorta urgent... Or at least important.

    "2016-08-13" needs to be merged with "2016-08-10", then deleted, since the dates have changed for its events, it seems.


    Events moved to August 10th, "2016-08-13" marked as candidate for deletion.
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    6 years 2 months ago #938 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Okay, it's been days since anyone's said anything... And this is sorta urgent... Or at least important.

    "2016-08-13" needs to be merged with "2016-08-10", then deleted, since the dates have changed for its events, it seems.


    Events moved to August 10th, "2016-08-13" marked as candidate for deletion.


    Rather than mark a timeline page for deletion, please turn it into a filler page.
    6 years 2 months ago #939 by Malady
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Okay, it's been days since anyone's said anything... And this is sorta urgent... Or at least important.

    "2016-08-13" needs to be merged with "2016-08-10", then deleted, since the dates have changed for its events, it seems.


    Events moved to August 10th, "2016-08-13" marked as candidate for deletion.


    Rather than mark a timeline page for deletion, please turn it into a filler page.


    A filler page between no dates with actual info? Uhh...
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    6 years 2 months ago #940 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote:

    XaltatunOfAcheron wrote:

    null0trooper wrote:

    Malady wrote: Okay, it's been days since anyone's said anything... And this is sorta urgent... Or at least important.

    "2016-08-13" needs to be merged with "2016-08-10", then deleted, since the dates have changed for its events, it seems.


    Events moved to August 10th, "2016-08-13" marked as candidate for deletion.


    Rather than mark a timeline page for deletion, please turn it into a filler page.


    A filler page between no dates with actual info? Uhh...


    There could always be a later story that has something happen on that date.

    Major holidays might also be a good thing to take note of, but I keep forgetting to mention that.
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    6 years 2 months ago #941 by null0trooper
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    • [2016-11-24] Everyone gets stuffed, except for [2016-10-10|Canadians].

    Which in turn makes
    [2016-11-23] School Assembly: The one that would have made more sense on the Monday prior to Turkey Day rather than the day before.
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    6 years 2 months ago #942 by Malady
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    • @Xalt - Make a 2005 row in your yearly timeline, since we have 5 / 6 months with pages now?
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    6 years 2 months ago #943 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: @Xalt - Make a 2005 row in your yearly timeline, since we have 5 / 6 months with pages now?


    OK, will do.

    We have six, but two of them are fillers.
    6 years 2 months ago #944 by DanZilla
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    • You all have been doing a wonderful job with the Wiki lately, well, always... and I don't think we can compliment you enough for your efforts.

    I DO have a question though... what order are you going through to update the stories and date pages? The reason I ask is that some of the authors have been looking in the pages for the Gen 1 Year 2 timeframe (Fall 2007) for help in trying to make sure they're staying on track with each other and not all the stories in that range have been added yet. Not trying to rush or make you change your procedures but just wanted to get an idea of when those, that are not there, might be added.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #945 by Malady
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    • DanZilla wrote: You all have been doing a wonderful job with the Wiki lately, well, always... and I don't think we can compliment you enough for your efforts.

    I DO have a question though... what order are you going through to update the stories and date pages? The reason I ask is that some of the authors have been looking in the pages for the Gen 1 Year 2 timeframe (Fall 2007) for help in trying to make sure they're staying on track with each other and not all the stories in that range have been added yet. Not trying to rush or make you change your procedures but just wanted to get an idea of when those, that are not there, might be added.


    You're welcome!

    And that's interesting... Which stories, if you know? In any case, I'll start blocking out dates for stories without clear sectioning, like "To Seal Our Happiness"

    ----

    Rambling Date Talks [ Click to expand ]


    ----

    In other things, Remis should probably be moved to Remus, and Remis deleted, if that's been fixed...
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    6 years 2 months ago #946 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • DanZilla wrote: You all have been doing a wonderful job with the Wiki lately, well, always... and I don't think we can compliment you enough for your efforts.

    I DO have a question though... what order are you going through to update the stories and date pages? The reason I ask is that some of the authors have been looking in the pages for the Gen 1 Year 2 timeframe (Fall 2007) for help in trying to make sure they're staying on track with each other and not all the stories in that range have been added yet. Not trying to rush or make you change your procedures but just wanted to get an idea of when those, that are not there, might be added.


    Well, I've finished Gen 2 except for Professional Courtesy and Dorms. The first has almost nothing to do with the main continuity, and quite frankly I can't make myself work on Dorms.

    I sort of prefer to work on a single author from start to finish, which is why Morpheus (he's who I started with when I returned) is up to date, but others aren't. I can, I suppose, begin working backwards, but that looses the sense of major arcs. I could also do E.E. beginning with The Boys of Summer and work forward on that thread for a while.

    Which would be more helpful, considering that I'm only going to do two or possibly three stories a week?
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #947 by DanZilla
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    • The stories I was wondering about were as listed below... and I pulled this from the released stories list and tried to keep to stories ON CAMPUS versus elsewhere (it's a bit late so if I missed something I apologize)

    Edit: and if I've included any that ARE on the wiki I apologize... again, kinda late

    Hank 4
    Kayda 10
    Quick Imp-ressions
    The Bear, the Bitch and Everything
    Soaring
    Intervention
    Hank 5
    Seeking Depth is Best
    Tea and Dagger
    The Banshee’s Tale
    Danny 1
    Hank 6
    Dague de L’esprit
    Shine 2
    The Evil that Men Do
    Hank 7
    Amongst the Shadows
    To Seal our Happiness
    Tea and Tears
    All Hallows Ball
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by DanZilla.
    6 years 2 months ago #948 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I just did a quick count. Quick Imp-ressions and All Hallows Ball are complete on the wiki. Beyond that, I think you've got 18 stories there, and I've got 19, and I noticed that there are a couple on each list that aren't on the others. So, call it 21 or so stories. Given that some of these are 5 and 6 part monsters, I figure maybe three months to do them all.
    6 years 2 months ago #949 by Malady
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    • DanZilla wrote: The stories I was wondering about were as listed below...


    Thanks!

    Okay, so for those just with character names, I'll write down the wiki pages:

    Hank 4 - "Life's But a Walking Shadow"
    Kayda 10 - "There's No Place Like Poe"
    Hank 5 - "To the New Year!"
    Danny 1 - "Learning to Hunt"?
    Hank 6 - "To Companions, New and Old!"
    Shine 2 - "My Fair 'Shine"? (Unmade)
    Hank 7 - "And All Who Sail In Her"

    Goodnight, everyone!
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    6 years 2 months ago #950 by DanZilla
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    • XaltatunOfAcheron wrote: I just did a quick count. Quick Imp-ressions and All Hallows Ball are complete on the wiki. Beyond that, I think you've got 18 stories there, and I've got 19, and I noticed that there are a couple on each list that aren't on the others. So, call it 21 or so stories. Given that some of these are 5 and 6 part monsters, I figure maybe three months to do them all.


    Thanks, I knew I might have missed a couple in the wiki... but I wanted to error on the side of more complete than less.
    6 years 2 months ago #951 by Sir Lee
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    • Xaltatun and Malady have been doing a lot of heavy, systematic editing lately, with some help from Nullotrooper, and they have to be commended for it. Me, not so much... work has been keeping me busy, so I mostly run the bot when requested (and sometimes I even miss those requests) and scratch the occasional itch on some entry that bothers me. There are some other collaborators of the "scratch an itch" sort, including a couple authors (E.E. and Elrod mostly).

    It would be nice to have more helpers. One thing people might consider is to sorta "adopt" a character. It doesn't have to be a major one.

    Many secondary characters have interesting stories that have been given piecemeal over many stories. Consider Aegis, or Tractor, or Darqueheart, or Team Awesome!. If you want to help, consider taking a secondary character you find interesting and writing down every time you notice them in a story, and what was revealed. Then put it, even in rough form, in the wiki. It's not that much work... but it's a big help, because if you have all the info on hand, you notice things that other editors, who are only adding things to that character as a spinoff of something else, would not notice.

    And no, you don't have to "officially" adopt the character and become responsible for their page. It's just a personal goal you set yourself. Perhaps three users will decide to "adopt" the same character; so what? The more the merrier. Perhaps you get bored and stop editing. Nobody is going to blame you.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago #952 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Indeed, many thanks and kudos to Xaltun and Malady for the Herculean effort they've put in. Just to give an idea, from the 23rd of Jan to the 29th we added 576 edits, the vast bulk being the two of them. The Wiki has grown to just shy of 7,000 pages!

    Well done to both of you!

    :woohoo:
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #953 by Malady
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    • ^^ - How do you get to WhatLinksHere from a normal page? 'Cause I know that how you'd know where they appear.

    Darqueheart has 16 links... 6 of those are Stories, 6 are dates... So we've mentioned a bit about her...

    Gonna go date stories now

    And we don't even link to Soaring... Sigh. ... And Soaring has no dates...

    Anyone help me figure out when Softball Season and Melville Frosh Arrival is?

    ----

    7000 pages? We only have ~4200, or so Wikia tells me...

    ----

    Now just gotta finish off The Evil That Men Do, then I can start making stub dates, so we know at least what times each story covers.
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    6 years 2 months ago #954 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: Anyone help me figure out when Softball Season and Melville Frosh Arrival is?

    DanZilla wrote: August 27, 2007, Monday Poe Freshmen Arrive, Registration
    August 28, 2007, Tuesday Freshmen Arrive, Registration
    August 29, 2007, Wednesday Upperclassmen Arrive, Registration
    August 30, 2007, Thursday Upperclassmen Arrive (cont.), Registration

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    6 years 2 months ago #955 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Malady wrote: 7000 pages? We only have ~4200, or so Wikia tells me...


    I presume its a total of articles, talk and special pages. The article page count is 4,211 as of this post.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    6 years 2 months ago #956 by elrodw
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    • One comment about getting fall 2007 done came from me - I have several characters that need to integrate among all the stories that are done. I have Kayda 11 - which will start after Kayda 10 (obviously), but also Knockoff - starting anytime, Elle - same thing, Danny - starting after 'What's New Pussycat?". Charge - any time. For gen 2, Laura (at least 3 stories). I'm kind of at an impasse on some of them until I know what they have to work around, especially Danny and Kayda (due to Bear, Bitch and Everything and so on - since Kayda, Tansy, and Lanie hang together quite a bit).

    So - yeah. Muse is shaking off the cobwebs, but I'm now stuck by storylines. I didn't know where y'all were, so I have a partial file of stuff - very short summaries for Kayda 10 and Danny 1, and much more detail I pieced together for Bear, Bitch, and Everything (except part 4). If y'all want it, let me know. (Note - it has one-liner summaries from Imp and R&R stories, too, but it looks like that's all done already).
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #957 by Malady
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    • Those summaries would be very helpful, instead of me just stuffing "Stuff" and filling it in later...

    Focusing on Bear, Bitch and Everything Part 4 then...

    Now I know what stories use what day... And can focus on filling out each day...

    EDIT: And done "2007-09-14"... How is it?

    ----

    Thinking about un-calendar-ify-ing 2008-01, unless Null has Beta-info that that'll be used soon...

    But, keeping it for the future makes sense...
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    6 years 2 months ago #958 by elrodw
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    • I'm almost done with Bear, Bitch and Everyting part 4. Let me know where to send it, and I'll pop it off as soon as I'm finished with part 4.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #959 by Malady
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    • You could just attach it to a post in this thread...

    Or is it too big?

    In other news, got those Silver Linings Parts sorted out, finally.
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #960 by elrodw
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    • It's not a small file. I started with the intent of brief summaries of everything from mid-august to end of October. It is a plain-text file, though.

    If you PM me an address, I'll get it right out.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by elrodw.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #961 by Malady
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    • Sent. ... And I shoulda just used Site Email. Which would make it really redundant, but whatever.

    I should sleep soon, but adding the summaries should be easy? Might do it tonight, depending on when it arrives.

    For future notice, the attachment can be "7.8 MB".

    So that's a lotta words...

    ----

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/original-t...lace-like-poe-part-3

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/original-t...lace-like-poe-part-4

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/content_pa...hine-2-my-fair-shine

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/original-t...-all-who-sail-in-her

    Doing 2007-09-10, now... Ooof... Gotta integrate the doc, and the already wrote wiki stuff... Easier than summarizing Shine stuff, though?

    2007-09-10 Whateley Academy Section additions draft [ Click to expand ]
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #962 by Sir Lee
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    • Malady wrote: ^^ - How do you get to WhatLinksHere from a normal page? 'Cause I know that how you'd know where they appear.

    Uh? For me, "What Links Here" is the fifth link in the bottom toolbar. -- you know, the blue bar at the bottom of the screen. Of course, that toolbar is editable (although I'm pretty sure that "What Links Here" is part of the default configuration), so maybe at some time in the past you inadvertently removed it.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 2 months ago #963 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Sir Lee wrote:

    Malady wrote: ^^ - How do you get to WhatLinksHere from a normal page? 'Cause I know that how you'd know where they appear.

    Uh? For me, "What Links Here" is the fifth link in the bottom toolbar. -- you know, the blue bar at the bottom of the screen. Of course, that toolbar is editable (although I'm pretty sure that "What Links Here" is part of the default configuration), so maybe at some time in the past you inadvertently removed it.


    On mine, What Links Here is the second selection on the Tools menu.
    6 years 2 months ago #964 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Drat - I spent most of yesterday working on BB&E, but didn't finish it.
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #965 by Malady
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    • What are you guys using again? I'm Firefox, with AdBlock off, and NoScript at least Temporary Permissions for everything.

    I only the toolbar when I turn off page style... I know the URL, anyway. Just wanted to know if our authors know about it. Presumably, they do...

    ----

    Well, now we have Elrod's notes to help us make summaries... See that Attachment, 4 posts up?

    ----

    Oof, was gonna start 2007-09-11, but need to gather My Fair 'Shine info... And I screwed up the months in My Fair 'Shine... Fixing...
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #966 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I'm on Safari on an out-of-date Mac. I doubt if that has anything to do with it, though.
    6 years 2 months ago #967 by Malady
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    • My 2007-09-12 draft has got all the info, but adding an "Events" header, brings the lowest level, into being level 5... Which I don't think exists? Or looks nice?

    Anyone got ideas on how to sort the summaries to look good?
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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #968 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: My 2007-09-12 draft has got all the info, but adding an "Events" header, brings the lowest level, into being level 5... Which I don't think exists? Or looks nice?

    Anyone got ideas on how to sort the summaries to look good?


    Not sure how you're getting to level 5, unless you're sub-dividing to a overly fine point

    ==Events==

    ===At Whateley===
    no specific place, just at WA

    ====This Place====
    * This happened
    * That happened
    * Then this other series of events all in a row
    * Seriously, that was wierd

    ====That Place====
    * zomg, did you see that?

    ==Stories==
    (some skip a day or so, but still cover the timeframe)

    ==References==
    refs list
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by null0trooper.
    6 years 2 months ago #969 by Malady
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    • If I add Events, I've got levels going:

    ==Events==

    ===Whateley Academy===

    ====Afternoon====

    =====Poe Cottage=====

    That's how I'm getting 5 levels. Too much? ... Maybe fold the location bits into one, like "Whateley Academy, Poe Cottage", and therefore remove a header?
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    6 years 2 months ago #970 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: If I add Events, I've got levels going:

    ==Events==

    ===Whateley Academy===

    ====Afternoon====

    =====Poe Cottage=====

    That's how I'm getting 5 levels. Too much? ... Maybe fold the location bits into one, like "Whateley Academy, Poe Cottage", and therefore remove a header?


    My basic take on it is to bury the information into the description paragraph, preferably at the front. Otherwise the headers simply get too confusing.
    6 years 2 months ago #971 by Sir Lee
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    • Malady wrote: What are you guys using again? I'm Firefox, with AdBlock off, and NoScript at least Temporary Permissions for everything.

    I only the toolbar when I turn off page style... I know the URL, anyway. Just wanted to know if our authors know about it. Presumably, they do...

    I use Firefox, current version. In your case, NoScript is probably interfering -- I used NoScript for a while, and remember having this sort of problems at the time.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago #972 by Malady
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    • So, got all of my 2007-09-12 draft wrote up, just have to make it a nice whole page...

    We haven't got codenames for Alexis Scott, nor Heather O'Neil, right?
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    6 years 2 months ago #973 by elrodw
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    • Malady wrote: So, got all of my 2007-09-12 draft wrote up, just have to make it a nice whole page...

    We haven't got codenames for Alexis Scott, nor Heather O'Neil, right?


    Here's what I have defined:
    (read as first line)
    Name Code Name Wealth Class Cottage Sex Orient Powers Notes

    Alexis Scott (none yet) $$$$$ 2011 M F Het Ex-2 Pk-2
    From Charleston. Blonde, cute, spoiled. Quite a sense of being better than everyone else. Parents have significant cash-flow problems, and she knows it. Fluent in French, German, and passable Russian.

    Heather O'Neil (none) $$$$$ 2011 M F Het Tk 3
    From Chevy Chase, MD - rich, spoiled. Brunette, short, sassy haircut that's kind of European (French, specifically). Passable in French. Parents are having minor money problems, so her available funds are limited. Bitchy, but very attractive
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago #974 by Malady
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    • Oooh! Thanks! IIRC, the "cash-flow / money problems" explains a lot!
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    6 years 2 months ago #975 by Sir Lee
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    • It's pretty informative, except by the bunch of dollar-signs thing. I mean, they are 5 $ out of... how many?
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago #976 by Malady
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    • Sir Lee wrote: It's pretty informative, except by the bunch of dollar-signs thing. I mean, they are 5 $ out of... how many?


    Out of 5, if the format hasn't changed from the old sheets, and there's no LV 6 $.
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    6 years 2 months ago #977 by elrodw
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    • Malady wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: It's pretty informative, except by the bunch of dollar-signs thing. I mean, they are 5 $ out of... how many?


    Out of 5, if the format hasn't changed from the old sheets, and there's no LV 6 $.


    There is a Lv 6. It's just quite rare. Goodkinds, Gates, Bezos, Buffet.

    Think of it along the following lines (note - this is NOT approved canon. It's just a rough guideline)
    $ - < 50K annual income
    $$ - $50 K to $ 80K annual income
    $$$ - $80 K to $250 K annual income, or up to $1M net worth
    $$$$ - > $250K annual income, or $1 M to $50 M net worth
    $$$$$$ - $50 M to $10 B net worth
    $$$$$$$ - > $10 B net worth
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago #978 by Sir Lee
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    • That's more than I thought that the two golddiggers were actually worth. I mean, by that scale 'Shine is still in the $$$$ range, while they are a whole level above him. Granted, he got there awfully fast, but still, their families are supposed to be worth quite a bit more than him -- they shouldn't be that desperate to hitch their wagon to his. Unless...
    ...unless their "cash flow problems" are much more serious than they let outsiders know, and in fact they have already dropped a category and are in danger of dropping more. I'm thinking SEC and IRS knocking on Daddy's door. That would give both of them a big incentive to find something to cling to.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 2 months ago #979 by Malady
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    • Sir Lee wrote: That's more than I thought that the two golddiggers were actually worth. I mean, by that scale 'Shine is still in the $$$$ range, while they are a whole level above him. Granted, he got there awfully fast, but still, their families are supposed to be worth quite a bit more than him -- they shouldn't be that desperate to hitch their wagon to his. Unless...
    ...unless their "cash flow problems" are much more serious than they let outsiders know, and in fact they have already dropped a category and are in danger of dropping more. I'm thinking SEC and IRS knocking on Daddy's door. That would give both of them a big incentive to find something to cling to.


    Well, by the end of next year, 'Shine'd be at $ x5 level, if his pace holds...

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/content_pa...hine-2-my-fair-shine

    "Perhaps he looks and sounds like a backwoods boy," Jadis said with a smug smile, "but he's far from poor." Seeing the two girls utter bafflement, she decided to enlighten them. "The last I checked, he's personally worth almost twenty million."

    "Twenty ... million?"

    "As of the start of this school year, his net worth is twenty-three point six million," Ayla corrected Jadis.

    "That's not counting the direct payment for this trip. The going rate for his services would suggest that this trip will be worth at least another million to his net worth. And that's not counting royalties that are currently three point two million per month," Jadis added.

    Heather and Alexis gawked at the information Ayla and Jadis had provided to them. Their cottage bumpkin - he was a multi-millionaire, and earning over three million more each month? Privately, each girl considered that she owed Bobby Earl an apology. With that kind of money, they owed him a big apology.


    ----

    Perhaps you're right and they're worse off than I assumed... Or, they want to get a increasing, personal wealth stash... As currently, their spending is dependent on their families keeping the flow going?

    Or possibly a mix of both? *shrugs*
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    6 years 2 months ago #980 by DanZilla
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    • It's a range so even though they're both 5$ it doesn't mean they're worth 10 Billion... they could be just around the 50 million mark and sinking fast.
    6 years 2 months ago #981 by elrodw
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    • Note that the wealth includes non-liquid assets as well as income and cash-on-hand. If they have money tied up in what is ostensibly a good real-estate deal but if in reality, it's almost dipped below junk-bond status, THAT investment is going to take down their assets fast. Another is that their holdings are in something like Enron - and about to be worth zero (and Daddy might get to spend some time in Club Fed!).
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #982 by Malady
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    • @Null - Yeah, I might've failed in describing Imidalozine...

    Could you check Silver Linings to see, if I actually did make mistakes in how Dr. Moore described Imidalozine and the other drugs?

    ----

    So, all those "Emerson by elimination", you mean that Twain is full up, so they gotta be Emerson?
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    6 years 2 months ago #983 by null0trooper
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    • Malady wrote: @Null - Yeah, I might've failed in describing Imidalozine...

    Could you check Silver Linings to see, if I actually did make mistakes in how Dr. Moore described Imidalozine and the other drugs?


    It was accurate to the story, but Bek had gone and used the name of a real class of compounds that have an entirely different set of effects.

    The others don't exist or can't exist (my memory for IUPAC nomenclature isn't great, but it isn't that bad!)

    Also, I've had chronic vasomotor rhinitis as long as I remember. It helps to know what an antihistamine can accomplish, compared to a bronchodilator or a decongestant.

    Also, histamine does work *fast*. It's the IgE immunoglobulins which can take minutes to catch on to an allergen's presence.

    Malady wrote: So, all those "Emerson by elimination", you mean that Twain is full up, so they gotta be Emerson?


    Twain, Emerson, Poe, Hawthorne, and Melville are the cottages that take male students.
    Poe and Hawthorne require separate orientations, for the Poe Secret or Safety/First Response protocols.
    The only kid who had any Melville-worthy connections was Kerry.
    Buck or Rob could come from wealthy families, but their later associations don't fit Melville.

    That leaves Twain and Emerson.

    Sgt. Ryan Wilson wrote: “Twain and Whitman are running a little behind, but then they usually do. Ladies, help yourselves to a seat.”


    We know Murphy's coming over from Freak House Femme. Froggy is a slam dunk for Twain. Rob Rose?

    Wilson wrote: Wilson raised an eyebrow- more for the boy who’d spoken than the GSD kid. “Okay, the only guy we have for Twain is Frobisher- that would be you-” he indicated the large faux-amphibian- “So you would be Rose?”
    “By any other name,” said the young man as he touched the brim of his hat.


    Wilson didn't say that all of Emerson's contingent was present.

    I would guess that Rose was later transferred from Emerson to Twain. The kid has a vindictive streak, and it puts more physical separation between him and Beltane.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #984 by Schol-R-LEA
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    • DanZilla wrote: It's a range so even though they're both 5$ it doesn't mean they're worth 10 Billion... they could be just around the 50 million mark and sinking fast.


    Or they could be looking for a husband who would let them maintain their current high standard of living without having to stay in the good graces of Mommy and Daddy, and without having to work at all themselves. If the 'rents are using their inheritance as both a carrot and a stick, they would probably resent it, and see this as a way out from under that while still remaining wealthy.

    Though it has been said pretty directly in the last story that neither of them are on as stable a financial ground as they make themselves out as being. Also, note that neither of them are in the GKs, as far as we know.
    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Schol-R-LEA.
    6 years 2 months ago #985 by Malady
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    • @Xalt - Whooo! Thanks for completing My Fair 'Shine!

    Tomorrow, I can just add those Elrod summaries from doc, two pages ago, plus your summaries, and we've got... September 2007, mostly done?

    I guess I understand linking the first part as the story name, because that's the start of the story, so people should start there. Okay.

    TTYL~!
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    6 years 2 months ago #986 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I suppose some statua is in order.

    I've seen three lists, and I don't have ElrodW's file, so I can't comment on it (I thought I did, but it seems to have gone missing.)

    My to-do list, just for what's on the last four or five pages of the original canon list:

    Silver Ghost - not in continuity (NIC)
    shine 2 - Done
    Tea and Tears
    The Last Ride - NIC
    To seal our happiness
    Amongst the shadows
    The Evil that Men Do
    Fallen Angel - NIC
    And All Who Sail in Her
    Diamonds are a Vamp's Best Friend (Year 1)
    Tales of Summer (collection with no dates)
    Vegas, Baby, Vegas (NIC)
    Dague De L'esprit
    The Banshee's Tale
    Tea and Dagger
    Seeking Depth is Best
    To The New Year
    Intervention
    The Final Trump - NIC
    There's No Place like Poe (Block - can't get myself to work on it).
    Soaring - DONE
    Blast from the Past - DONE
    The Bear, the Bitch and Everything (DONE)
    Blood Sister, Blood Brother (summer)

    Total: 14 that aren't either NIC or DONE or Year 1

    From DanZilla's list that Isn't on mine:

    Hank 4 - Life's But a Walking Shadow
    Danny 1 - What's New, Pussycat?
    All Hallow's Ball - DONE

    From Malady's list:

    Danny 1.5 - Learning to Hunt

    That's a total of 17 stories to do.

    i'm trying to do two things:

    1. New stories as they're added (that's where Shine 2 came from)
    2. The Gen 1, Year 2 list from the oldest to the newest.

    I notice that Shine 1 isn't on the list; the story page is a placeholder.

    There are a couple I thought I had done, but apparently not, like R&R 2 (and possibly R&R 3?)
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #987 by Malady
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    • Elrod's Summaries are the attachment on the first post of page 97.

    He summarized all the Kayda stuff, we just have to attach reference tags before we add it to the wiki.

    The Shine stuff being missing was what stopped me from transferring it faster.

    You might've gotten all the dates, already, given your editing spree this morning.
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #988 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Elrod's Summaries are the attachment on the first post of page 97.

    He summarized all the Kayda stuff, we just have to attach reference tags before we add it to the wiki.

    The Shine stuff being missing was what stopped me from transferring it faster.

    You might've gotten all the dates, already, given your editing spree this morning.


    That editing spree was just transferring Shine 2 stuff to timeline pages; all of the timeline pages already had something on them. We've actually got quite a bit of coverage. A lot of what's on Elrod's summary is already there, especially from BB&E.

    There was also some reformatting; see how you like the "Other Stories" section.
    6 years 2 months ago #989 by Malady
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    • Yep, looking at 2007-09-10, it does look like we might've caught up to Elrod's notes, and all that was missing was My Fair 'Shine.
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    6 years 2 months ago #990 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Malady wrote: Yep, looking at 2007-09-10, it does look like we might've caught up to Elrod's notes, and all that was missing was My Fair 'Shine.


    Mostly. I went through and saw a bunch of stuff I didn't recognize. Shine 2 didn't have much to do with it, the big chunk was BB&E. From what Elrod said recently, what he needs is E.E. stories that have Lanie, Tansy and Kayda, so those will go to the top of the list. That looks like eight stories, but I'll have to check - I don't think all of them have Kayda in them.
    6 years 2 months ago #991 by Schol-R-LEA
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    • @XaltatunOfAcheron: I am pretty sure that 'Baloo' was just Wyatt's childhood nickname for The Kodiak (who apparently appeared to him as the character of that name from Disney's The Jungle Book and the Talespin cartoons).
    Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
    6 years 2 months ago #992 by elrodw
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    • My notes were a very, very, very rough one-liner type of storyboard, nowhere near as complete as what has been done for other stories, and I really didn't intend them as "this is all there is" - but more 'crib notes'.

    Is there any intent to ever go back and catch up my first-year and summer stories? The total "description" for Buffalo Gal seems to be along the lines of:

    "Buffalo Gal part 1 ends.
    Buffalo Gal part 2 begins" on Feb 24, 2007

    I suspect there's precious little for other Kayda stories as well. One single entry about Knockoff - start of camping trip with Setup - not much story summary. Probably same for Charge.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #993 by Malady
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    • Well, your notes were good enough for me, but if they aren't good enough for you, then yeah, I'll try and add more...

    "Mama's Boy"... You're talking about "2007-07-01"?... Yeah, they do talk about stuff, like Marty's love life, and stuff, and while not important to the plot of the story, I could add more.

    IIRC, I was like, "This is Knockoff's Origin, so focus on that." *shrugs*

    "Buffalo Gal Won't You Come Out Tonight"... Agreed that it's barebones... Adding date headers and stuff will make it easier to add more info.

    While Xalt goes Story by Story, I go making sure that we know, for every date, the stories that have events at that time.

    Okay, enough rambling / defense / explanation from me.

    ----

    Buffalo Gal 4 ... I can tell that "2007-03-10" seems to start with "Have you thought about what you want to do?" Farm Boy asked as we sat eating our breakfast."

    But where does "2007-03-11" start? Well, I've got a good enough guess, that I'm done with Buffalo Gal's dating.

    ----

    It seems like we need to fix Unhcegila's sons? Since I think one of them was killed in Buffalo Gal 4? So he had more than three sons? He had one that died, then he had three more?
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    Last Edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Malady.
    6 years 2 months ago #994 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • Schol-R-LEA wrote: @XaltatunOfAcheron: I am pretty sure that 'Baloo' was just Wyatt's childhood nickname for The Kodiak (who apparently appeared to him as the character of that name from Disney's The Jungle Book and the Talespin cartoons).


    That may be true, but he is in fact using it. If you know of a different name, I'd love to learn it.
    6 years 2 months ago #995 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • elrodw wrote: My notes were a very, very, very rough one-liner type of storyboard, nowhere near as complete as what has been done for other stories, and I really didn't intend them as "this is all there is" - but more 'crib notes'.

    Is there any intent to ever go back and catch up my first-year and summer stories? The total "description" for Buffalo Gal seems to be along the lines of:

    "Buffalo Gal part 1 ends.
    Buffalo Gal part 2 begins" on Feb 24, 2007

    I suspect there's precious little for other Kayda stories as well. One single entry about Knockoff - start of camping trip with Setup - not much story summary. Probably same for Charge.


    Yes, once I'm done with the current pass through Gen 1 Year 2, I'm going to do a complete pass through the entire book of stories, since I have no idea what needs work and what doesn't.

    I'm going to be blunt here. I have health problems that suggest I may not make it to 2020, and at the current rate of progress, bringing the story summaries and timeline up to snuff will take well into 2020 and possibly beyond. That's why I've been making not-so-subtle suggestions that help is urgently needed. This is more than a two or three-person project!

    The other reason that more help is needed is that there are certain stories that I'm simply not going to do. When I try to work on stories like Dorms or There's No Place Like - Poe, my mind simply balks. I can easily waste days not doing anything on those stories while my mind throws up distraction after distraction.

    I do not intend to talk about either issue further.
    6 years 1 month ago #996 by XaltatunOfAcheron
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    • I've finished collecting data, and decided to boil it down to an answer, There are approximately 1353 wanted pages at this time. There's a bit of statistical noise, but I'd be surprised if this was off by more than 10 pages either way.
    6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #997 by Malady
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    • Can someone help me with dating Tennyo 1?

    Wiki says she's waiting for a bus to Whateley in March 2006? But school starts in September 2006??

    Or it's timestamping the flashback, not the bus trip thing?

    crystalhall.fandom.com/wiki/Unexpected_Consequences

    whateleyacademy.net/index.php/9-original...xpected-consequences
    Archives: Rubberjohn's Fanfic + CrystalHall + Mittfh's Wordcount Spreadsheet

    My Patreon. But, support the Crystal Hall 1st?
    Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Malady.
    6 years 1 month ago #998 by Sir Lee
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    • March is clearly wrong. Tennyo's origin story begins in July -- the whole thing with the drug was T.B.'s revenge for not Bill not taking him to see the fireworks, if memory serves well.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 1 month ago #999 by Malady
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    • So, instead of March 2, it should be September 2, so Billie's in time for the start of Whateley, I assume?
    Archives: Rubberjohn's Fanfic + CrystalHall + Mittfh's Wordcount Spreadsheet

    My Patreon. But, support the Crystal Hall 1st?
    6 years 1 month ago #1000 by Sir Lee
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    • It was probably an artifact left over from an earlier draft.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
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